Guild Wars 2

So ive been Scepter/Dagger since time began, and fancied a change.

Now i’ve been really struggling to see how in PVE at least, Warhorn can even come close to being as useful for a Necro outside of maybe Dagger/Warhorn.

The Daze with #4 is ok for a brief lock down of trash.

The #5 can proc additional bleeds with crits, as well as perma snare at close range and a tickle of normal damage. Rarely get to use the speed buff as it gets you locked in combat so easily.

But all in all pales in comparison against the other options.

What’s everyone else think on PVE warhorn, can we make it work? Or are we thinking its only real use is in a PVP situation?

Warhorn is a very strong power offhand. It adds a long duration ticking aoe ontop of your dagger auto (dps increase just by maintaining locust swarm, each tick can hit for over 1k when the necro is fully buffed). Also it can be traited to last longer and have a shorter cooldown with just 20 points in curses. And since you will be going 20 pts in curses you may aswell go 25 for target the weak. Which makes the cripple you apply give you an extra 2% damage. You should be able to maintain about 4+ conditions permanently in an average group which would give you a permanent 8% dmg boost.

The daze on warhorn is pretty situational but if you need to remove defiant or interrupt bjarl in coe then its a pretty good skill to have.

If your group struggles with vuln I would take focus instead though (or both).

Again spoj thanks for your replies.

As I thought then really the usefulness is really with the dagger.
I am surprised by the amount of DPS each tick can kick out does make me consider using it for my power build.

I am trying to find a reason to use it with Condi, but as I suspected doesnt really meet the mark when compared to dagger O/H

Yeah for it to be worthwhile on a condi spec you need to be standing next to 5 mobs and even then its only going to apply a maximum of 5 short duration bleeds per second(1 on each mob with very good rng). So id say dagger offhand is better, due to a guaranteed 2 stacks of 10+ second bleeds on 5 targets.

Agree, and kind of confirms my fear. Shame there is no real viable alternative to dagger O/H with Scepter. IMO

I use scepter focus for a hybrid build. And dagger offhand on a power build if I needed better weakness uptime. They are more niche roles, but they can work pretty well in some situations.

I’d imagine that with spoj’s build Locust Swarm ticks for about 180 or 350 with crit…?
So an average of 265 for 13 ticks, that’s ~3,5k, or 17,5 on 5 targets. Not too shabby considering this is a passive damage source. Plus, it generates up to 65% life force.

@Wail of Doom: You could use it with Perplexity in a condi build, and then epidemic for 10+ aoe cofusion stacks.

@flow

Ive seen my locust swarm crit for 1k per tick when buffed up with might, vuln and banners.

@flow, yes i had considered the Perplexity but means gimping the bleeds heavily.
Plus for PVE does confusions even work well? Thats my concern.

The extra DPS for W/H offhand does seem viable use for it with dagger.

Don’t really use it, but jealous of the necro’s running past me with swiftness in Champ farming situations ;-P

@Bweaty, well you say that, I have been using my WH for such situations but because it hits random mobs, including non aggressive ones, you get locked in combat ALOT and suffer from the speed loss for being in combat too!
So doesnt work well for general travel, instead I make sure I have Signet on

spectral walk for swiftyness!

spoj.9672:

@flow

Ive seen my locust swarm crit for 1k per tick when buffed up with might, vuln and banners.

Impossibru O_o
warhorn op!

Bweaty.9187:

Don’t really use it, but jealous of the necro’s running past me with swiftness in Champ farming situations ;-P

You could carry a warhorn in your inventory, swap in – press 5 – then swap back. (out of combat of course)

True, though I prefer the constant 25% boost over the short term 33% for general PVE travel. Plus means one less skill to worry about using ^^
For farming/ champs/ gathering

Other than a bad way to travel across the map (!) and good damage bonus to Dagger main hand, do we feel thats it for the warhorn use in PVE?

WH is pretty much mandatory for the only current raid, if you are lucky you can stop 2 bloaters or up to 3 krait+2vet hylek from the north spawn and LS is massive if you do the triple hitbox mid well bomb during the burn phase.

That maybe true, but what the OP was asking is comparable to dagger in offhand. Having a use for 1 boss fight doesnt really cut it in my books.

Bweaty.9187:

Don’t really use it, but jealous of the necro’s running past me with swiftness in Champ farming situations ;-P

I stopped using war horn for swiftness in champ farming. All it takes is one animal to catch the AoE and suddenly I am slowed to combat speed.

Andele.1306:

WH is pretty much mandatory for the only current raid, if you are lucky you can stop 2 bloaters or up to 3 krait+2vet hylek from the north spawn and LS is massive if you do the triple hitbox mid well bomb during the burn phase.

Running dagger/war horn for Tequatl, too. I do not need much swiftness with the launching pads and the daze is useful against champ adds. Another benefit to locust swarm is it helps capture aggro for a number of mobs without me having to switch to staff and toss marks everywhere.

The duration of swarm is beneficial to proc on-crit effects and sigils as well as vampiric. Also, swarm continues to function while in DS and can help sustain LF a bit longer when in a big crowd (if you hit the horn daze just before entering DS it sets up for an amazing interrupt chain using fear as well- toss in a spectral wall and watch the enemy flail around helplessly). I love WH in PvE and use it on both a scepter build as well as dagger or axe. It’s LF generation isn’t quite as robust as focus, but it has it’s uses as I listed above. When you trait for it, it’s pretty awesome but I usually need the trait spots for other effects more so sadly I don’t get to enjoy the ’roided up horn too much

@Nay Yes I suggested earlier I too use it to help proc sigils, forgot to mention the life siphon too
I too bust open #5 then, DS #5 #4 and watch the numbers fly!
The LF is actually quite good in groups real boost to up time in DS

Its a shame I think that daze is useless against so many mobs, not just bosses, but most champs too im sure. Feel in PVE it just lacks something. Hoping it will change in the future so it can be used more widely well, not just as a DPS boost for dagger.

Yeah, in my perma-DS (or as near as possible) build, Warhorn is a staple in keeping up LF-gen. In 1v1 situations, Focus outshines it for LF-gen, but in AoE nothing comes close. Coupled with DS 4, you can take your LF bar from half to full while IN DS.

The golems in coe can be pretty nasty if you dont interrupt their knockdown moves or the ice explosion attack. Its trash like that where the daze is very useful.

@Phenn, I have had similar experience, but being condi this doesnt help too much other than help keep me alive in sticky situations! For pwr maybe this works better?

@Spoj, true I just wish its usefulness was more widespread than the odd mob here

Yeah as soon as you go ConD, Warhorn gets outshined by OH Dagger. You always have the chance to proc bleeds-on-crit, but the utility you get out of /D is just better.

For power builds, however, /Wh is borderline OP in AoE situations.

There is something just off/wrong with Warhorn

Despite the Necromancer badly needing a movement speed boost, Warhorn doesn’t see all that much use because the movement speed boost doesn’t work. You use it, accidentally tab some critter, and now you are moving even slower than before.

WH 5, while terribad for being a speed boost, does do a pretty good amount of damage and does a cripple (useless inpve, great in pvp). The good damage is balanced by the fact that the class can’t take a hit in melee.

WH4 needs some attention. It’s another skill like epidemic that is highly situational to use and does no damage. The cone is hard to aim, and seems to fire slower than the time stated by the tooltip. At least it hits 3 times.

WH4 is the necromancer’s best bet for getting an interrupt for daily interrupter or the confusion runes, since DS3 and downed 2 are bugged and staff 5 requires the target to be moving and channeling which you wouldn’t get often in pve. (Forum white knight alert: this indeed a bug, wolf fear, “fear me,” staff 5 all trigger interrupts, so I don’t want to hear the explaination about how anet intended fear not to interrupt).

Given that the main hand weapons are so poor for the necromancer, especially dagger which has little utility othe than DPS, Warhorn is a curious choice as it requires melee and doesn’t offer defense. Most of the time Dagger (ranged skills and condi clear) or focus (ranged skills and boon strip) are better.

I don’t see how WH can ever be that viable with out a rework or new MH weapons, but a possible game changer is lifesteal being boosted to actually work (and to work in shroud). Since WH 5 does hit a lot, the lifesteal heal could be part of the sustain that the meless necromancer doesn’t have.

nekretaal.6485:

There is something just off/wrong with Warhorn

Despite the Necromancer badly needing a movement speed boost, Warhorn doesn’t see all that much use because the movement speed boost doesn’t work. You use it, accidentally tab some critter, and now you are moving even slower than before.

I’ll give you this one. I find it surprising, honestly, that it’s not AoE Swiftness.

nekretaal.6485:

WH 5, while terribad for being a speed boost, does do a pretty good amount of damage and does a cripple (useless inpve, great in pvp). The good damage is balanced by the fact that the class can’t take a hit in melee.

There’s a lot wrong with this statement. First, it’d help if you specified which arena we’re talking about. The cripple isn’t useless in PvE, especially if you’re holding mobs/trash for other party members. Additionally, the Necro is incredibly suvivable in PvE melee … far more tanky than even heavy armor classes—in Zerker gear. Maybe not so much in PvP, but I’d still argue they’re pretty durable (my experience in WvW demonstrates this).

nekretaal.6485:

WH4 needs some attention. It’s another skill like epidemic that is highly situational to use and does no damage. The cone is hard to aim, and seems to fire slower than the time stated by the tooltip. At least it hits 3 times.

WH4 is the necromancer’s best bet for getting an interrupt for daily interrupter or the confusion runes, since DS3 and downed 2 are bugged and staff 5 requires the target to be moving and channeling which you wouldn’t get often in pve. (Forum white knight alert: this indeed a bug, wolf fear, “fear me,” staff 5 all trigger interrupts, so I don’t want to hear the explaination about how anet intended fear not to interrupt).

Again, I’ll give you this. Wh #4 is ridiculously hard to aim well. But awesome when it connects and pops three “interrupts.”

nekretaal.6485:

Given that the main hand weapons are so poor for the necromancer, especially dagger which has little utility othe than DPS, Warhorn is a curious choice as it requires melee and doesn’t offer defense. Most of the time Dagger (ranged skills and condi clear) or focus (ranged skills and boon strip) are better.

Again, I’m not sure what arena you’re talking about here. D/ has excellent DPS, a ridiculously long root, and that in and of itself is enough to take it in either PvE or WvW. Warhorn needn’t offer defense (it does, however, through excellent LF-gen)…not sure what the issue is here.

nekretaal.6485:

I don’t see how WH can ever be that viable with out a rework or new MH weapons, but a possible game changer is lifesteal being boosted to actually work (and to work in shroud). Since WH 5 does hit a lot, the lifesteal heal could be part of the sustain that the meless necromancer doesn’t have.

Finally, what does “viable” entail? In PvE? Or PvP? Or..? I guess I’m not sure where the “not viable” is coming from given the fact that I’ve used /Wh since release and found it crucial to every power build I’ve ever used.

Phenn.5167:

nekretaal.6485:

WH4 needs some attention. It’s another skill like epidemic that is highly situational to use and does no damage. The cone is hard to aim, and seems to fire slower than the time stated by the tooltip. At least it hits 3 times.

Again, I’ll give you this. Wh #4 is ridiculously hard to aim well. But awesome when it connects and pops three “interrupts.”

Actually Wail of Doom is not hard to aim at all.
And what’s this about 3 hits? It stuns up to 5 targets, once.

nekretaal.6485:

…since DS3 and downed 2 are bugged and staff 5 requires the target to be moving and channeling which you wouldn’t get often in pve.
…
wolf fear, “fear me,” staff 5 all trigger interrupts.

Wrong and wrong.
Fear doesn’t interrupt, period.

nekretaal.6485:

Warhorn is a curious choice as it requires melee and doesn’t offer defense.

Aoe stun = defense.
Range of Swarm: 210, most melee skills have 130 range, plus you can kite with perma cripple.

nekretaal.6485:

I don’t see how WH can ever be that viable with out a rework or new MH weapons.

Not sure why you don’t like our mainhand weapons… anyway, a lot of players use warhorn, especially in WvW. It doesn’t need a rework.

Like flow said, perplexity + warhorn and epidemic gives a nice new playstyle. Especially if you are also an asura with technobabble / grasp.

Swarm gonna get +1sec on the cripple in future so that’s gonna be good for maybe dagger power builds to stay on targets in pvp/www, I duno.