Guild Wars 2

Why is it that our only viable option for range on power builds is limited to such a short range? No other class has this problem. Every single other class has mechanics that help it survive reasonably long while having long enough range to hit from afar we are forced to go into almost melee range while having next to no mobility and a mechanic that is dumb and counter productive. Death shroud is not a reason for Necro to be lacking what other classes have.

Axe’s issue is not its range.

Bhawb.7408:

Axe’s issue is not its range.

It certainly is one of them.

Errr… Works fine in PvP for me. Sure the range is a little underwhelming but other than that its fine.

ArchAngelix.6078:

Errr… Works fine in PvP for me. Sure the range is a little underwhelming but other than that its fine.

just because you can use it in a hotjoin and do ok doesn’t make it a decent weapon. It’s a flawed weapon and has very little power when compared to other ranged weapons.

Axe is HORRIBLE. Just straight up horrible all around.

Radmage.3741:

Bhawb.7408:

Axe’s issue is not its range.

It certainly is one of them.

It isn’t. While it’s not a strength, it isn’t a weakness.

Axe’s main weakness is a useless 1. 2 is solid burst + LF regen, and 3 is solid cripple+retal. They’re not stand-out amazing, but they’re not supposed to be.

Sarrs.4831:

Radmage.3741:

Bhawb.7408:

Axe’s issue is not its range.

It certainly is one of them.

It isn’t. While it’s not a strength, it isn’t a weakness.

Axe’s main weakness is a useless 1. 2 is solid burst + LF regen, and 3 is solid cripple+retal. They’re not stand-out amazing, but they’re not supposed to be.

You don’t seem to understand what the argument is, necro has no range for weapons on a power spec, 600 range is the shortest range in a range weapon, every other range weapon does a better job at range dps while being at a safe distance.

Radmage.3741:

Sarrs.4831:

Radmage.3741:

Bhawb.7408:

Axe’s issue is not its range.

It certainly is one of them.

It isn’t. While it’s not a strength, it isn’t a weakness.

Axe’s main weakness is a useless 1. 2 is solid burst + LF regen, and 3 is solid cripple+retal. They’re not stand-out amazing, but they’re not supposed to be.

You don’t seem to understand what the argument is, necro has no range for weapons on a power spec, 600 range is the shortest range in a range weapon, every other range weapon does a better job at range dps while being at a safe distance.

Necro has an amazing ranged DPS weapon. It’s called death shroud+ life blast. Also not too mention that unless a person completely evades it life blast is a homing missile.

jportell.2197:

Radmage.3741:

Sarrs.4831:

Radmage.3741:

Bhawb.7408:

Axe’s issue is not its range.

It certainly is one of them.

It isn’t. While it’s not a strength, it isn’t a weakness.

Axe’s main weakness is a useless 1. 2 is solid burst + LF regen, and 3 is solid cripple+retal. They’re not stand-out amazing, but they’re not supposed to be.

You don’t seem to understand what the argument is, necro has no range for weapons on a power spec, 600 range is the shortest range in a range weapon, every other range weapon does a better job at range dps while being at a safe distance.

Necro has an amazing ranged DPS weapon. It’s called death shroud+ life blast. Also not too mention that unless a person completely evades it life blast is a homing missile.

Life blast is laughable at more than 600 range.

I find axe to be “usable” if traited and using a good (zerker) axe with a sigil of force or ruby or some damage attachment. Also not just relying on Autoattack, but using other skills and the #2 whenever off cooldown. This hits like a truck. It goes well with the focus and with minions—the Vuln stacking helps them, or your group do more damage. I think this is the purpose of the axe, for some condition stacking, and some damage, and some group support/help. Seems like a hybrid weapon like the warrior’s MH sword.

If you want to solo faceroll, use the dagger. Any old dagger will do, you don’t need traits, just tank up, wade in and hack away and watch the bodies hit the floor—like the warrior’s MH axe

Mazdan.2071:

I find axe to be “usable” if traited and using a good (zerker) axe with a sigil of force or ruby or some damage attachment. Also not just relying on Autoattack, but using other skills and the #2 whenever off cooldown. This hits like a truck. It goes well with the focus and with minions—the Vuln stacking helps them, or your group do more damage. I think this is the purpose of the axe, for some condition stacking, and some damage, and some group support/help. Seems like a hybrid weapon like the warrior’s MH sword.

If you want to solo faceroll, use the dagger. Any old dagger will do, you don’t need traits, just tank up, wade in and hack away and watch the bodies hit the floor—like the warrior’s MH axe

dagger isn’t a range weapon, staff is for conditions and party support, axe is meant for dps.

Just because we don’t have a 1200 range power weapon doesn’t mean that should be axe.

Bhawb.7408:

Just because we don’t have a 1200 range power weapon doesn’t mean that should be axe.

doesn’t mean it has to be 1200 either

Axe shouldn’t be 900 range either. It is made to be a mid-range weapon, leave it as a mid range weapon. We could also use melee condi, melee support, melee cleave, a defensive OH, etc. as other weapon set archetypes that we don’t have right now. But those should exist as new weapons, not by trying to change one that already exists.

Axe is built around being a 600 range weapon, and it works in certain builds (mainly MM builds and PvE power builds), and even if it was fixed to be competitive it still wouldn’t fit with a range increase. Just wait for them to give us a bow, firearm, or something that actually has a kit meant to be 900-1200 range.

I like the Axe in sPvP Tourneys it does decent damage to everyone

Bhawb.7408:

Axe shouldn’t be 900 range either. It is made to be a mid-range weapon, leave it as a mid range weapon. We could also use melee condi, melee support, melee cleave, a defensive OH, etc. as other weapon set archetypes that we don’t have right now. But those should exist as new weapons, not by trying to change one that already exists.

Axe is built around being a 600 range weapon, and it works in certain builds (mainly MM builds and PvE power builds), and even if it was fixed to be competitive it still wouldn’t fit with a range increase. Just wait for them to give us a bow, firearm, or something that actually has a kit meant to be 900-1200 range.

how is the kit not meant for 900 range? the whole thing is meant to try and keep the enemy away from you so you can get the whole 2 channel on them, with the extra range that will be possible and axe can be used without being kited around by anything with 900 range on projectiles. were the only class with no long range power coverage without bringing in a staff.

If there is something to be said about Axe range it’s that at the least 600 or so range weapons are unusual in general, and may be underdesigned. A brief recap:

- Melee attacks are typically set at 130 (some oddballs at 150) with the highest damage (that comes with the shortest range)
- Ranged attacks start at 900, extending to 1200 (some oddballs in between), and trade some punch for safety — some traits may extend the range

It’s hard to figure out the purpose of the weapons that are in between, and there are in fact very few of them. Namely:

- Necromancer Axe at 600
- Guardian Staff at 600
- Elementalist Dagger at 400 (Fire), 600 (Water), 300 (Air) and 300 (Earth)

Of that list, the Axe and Staff have some similarity damage-wise in that they both have a lackluster spam skill that’s somewhat compensated by a spammy-ish second skill (unless you detonate the orb, in the case of the staff). As the staff hits in a very wide cone though, all three setups are arguably very unique.

(I can’t really comment on the Elementalist’s dagger when it comes to the damage–range/risk–reward trade-off as I lack experience with it. In any case it’s a popular weapon not just for the utility but also the damage, as I understand it.)

So that’s what I mean by ‘underdesigned’. The non-spammable skills may be easy to figure out (e.g. Staff has great support), but the weird damage-to-range point of the spammable attack makes it a little bit unobvious to the player how to play to the weapon’s strengths, if any; or conversely how to integrate the weapon to their playstyle.

Radmage.3741:

You don’t seem to understand what the argument is, necro has no range for weapons on a power spec, 600 range is the shortest range in a range weapon, every other range weapon does a better job at range dps while being at a safe distance.

Personally I think that’s a case of Different Classes Are Different. While it would be cool if Necromancers had a strong ranged Power-based weapon, I think that the class would be better having a completely new weapon filling the role, rather than a rejiggered Axe. I’m inclined to say Axe 2 would need to be neutered if it were pushed up to a 900/1200 range.

Mickk.6875:

If there is something to be said about Axe range it’s that at the least 600 or so range weapons are unusual in general, and may be underdesigned. A brief recap:

I think I’m inclined to agree, though I’m also inclined to say that there isn’t really a need for a 600 range weapon in the game.

Back when I played WoW (terrible way to start a story, I know) there was a neat strategy you’d use as a Rogue against a Warrior called 5-8ing. Warriors have Charge which sends them to their target and stuns, but it had a minimum range of 8 yards; warriors couldn’t Charge you if you were in that range. The strategy was to poke at them with attacks when your energy was full before retreating out of 5 yards, but still within 8 yards so they couldn’t close.

At the moment, I don’t think there’s really that threat in GW2. There’s an obvious motive for staying out of immediate melee range with most enemies, but there aren’t many incentives for staying within that range. There are things like Mesmer GS1 and Ranger LB1, but that’s about it.

I wonder if maybe ranged play in general is underdeveloped, and I also wonder whether it’s because of Conquest’s nodes.

Axe is….

Dang, I can’t even think of anything to say about it.

Range isnt an issue on axe
I use it in spvp on my wells build and do fairly good.
Axe auto attack seems…well it sux in my opinion and #3
Is nice but at the same time cumbersome to use.

Necros are stronger at close range, deal with it.

As to the axe, the auto attack is too weak and/or doesn’t cleave. But that’s more of an issue in PvE where you often need sustained single target dps. In PvP you’ll rarely ever get to just auto attack on any weapon.

Axe is more of an offhand for range wich is used with 2, spam focus skills, maybe DS 4 and 5 then 2 again and never try to touch 1 xD
Dagger op

I think Necro’s should have mainhand torches for ranged power weapons ( 8

Some kind of animation like blowing on the fire and it shoots physical projectiles that do not inflict burning except for maybe the #3 skill. It could be something like a spectral weapon that launches ghostly daggers at people. Idk, just a thought, lol.

Axe (in my opinion) is for skirting on the edge of combat when things are looking dire or wearing down your opponent, combine with warhorn and you have a pretty good kiting set. If you want to blow kittens up, just roll dagger with focus.

Doesn’t seem to me that Necro is designed to have a long range power option, nor should it. I’ve never though it was necessary. Especially that we can trait reset now, it’s hard to take these complaints seriously. Swap build when you need it.

In spvp I find axe to be lackluster. It’s probably lackluster in PVE too. But in WvW, if traited, it can be a very valuable weapon. The channel on axe 2 hits hard and through stealth, and axe 3 has got to be one of the best all around WvW skills there is. Not to mention the synergy with death shroud.

I’d think necromancer would do well with a long range power option when they start adding new weapons, axe should remain a 600 range weapon though. They just need to do something with its auto attack.

Has anyone else noticed that axe 1 doesn’t hit those insta-kill animals when running by/through? I know the axe doesn’t cleave but the dagger does kill those animals without having to manually target it. It leads me to believe that axe 1 doesn’t hit thieves either when they are in stealth.

seanshine.8791:

Has anyone else noticed that axe 1 doesn’t hit those insta-kill animals when running by/through? I know the axe doesn’t cleave but the dagger does kill those animals without having to manually target it. It leads me to believe that axe 1 doesn’t hit thieves either when they are in stealth.

Axe 1 needs a target, so that’s correct.

Axe doesn’t need more range it needs some other changes.

Axe 1 needs to be able to cleave multiple foes and increase a tiny bit the damage OR add some more vulnerability OR lower the skill delay after the 2nd slash.

Axe 2 is fine .

Axe 3 needs to be a blast finisher and tone down a bit the cd.

And axe off hand would be a very nice adition too at some point.

Uberkafros.5431:

Axe 3 needs to be a blast finisher and tone down a bit the cd.

I’m assuming you mean increase the CD?

I like the axe.

The problem with is that axe #1 is terrible damage and you really have to turn on auto targeting to hit anything. The other two skills are great.

Traited axe used to be max damage for Deathshroud. Since the patch, this is no longer true.

I would like to see axe get a buff.

nekretaal.6485:

I like the axe.

The problem with is that axe #1 is terrible damage and you really have to turn on auto targeting to hit anything. The other two skills are great.

Traited axe used to be max damage for Deathshroud. Since the patch, this is no longer true.

I would like to see axe get a buff.

Is the bolded true? Can you please elaborate the patch note that explains that? This is news to me and disappointing if true.

First, it wasn’t strictly max damage, it only made your weapon damage equivalent to staff (staff had average 1100 weapon damage, axe had 1000, with the trait it increases by 10% to 1100), however by having two sigils you could get more damage out of axe/whatever. However now staff has two sigils as well, so with no traits staff has exactly equal damage to traited axe.

Bhawb.7408:

First, it wasn’t strictly max damage, it only made your weapon damage equivalent to staff (staff had average 1100 weapon damage, axe had 1000, with the trait it increases by 10% to 1100)

The fun bit is that DS 4 and 5 use the offhand weapon for damage, and are unaffected by Axe Training. Staff is better for DS damage all around.

You can make axe work, but as soon as you switch to anything else, you notice how poor it is by comparison. I just switched from axe to dagger and I’m not looking back. If I need to back off I have staff on swap as well as DS.

Guardian staff was mentioned as another 600 range weapon — but staff has that wide spread and triggers that Justice flame thing, so you can use it to spam AOE trash from midrange. It also wrecks buildings with surprising speed, as if they’re taking more than one hit from it. It’s hard to justify using it as a primary weapon, and is probably rare on swap too, but it’s not terrible. Axe could be improved a fair amount by giving the autoattack some AOE.

I agree, axe auto needs a change. It would be nice if it worked in a cone but a little smaller than the guardian staff aa. Something like spectralblades in a 600 range cone.

Axe is a vulnerability applicator first and foremost. Why it was placed in Spite, I can only guess that the dev’s thought something else placed there would be OP.

Keep in mind that axe was actually weaker on release than it is after the Dhuumfire nerf. Axe Mastery was a grandmaster trait so you could not use it and Close to Death at the same time. DS was also less powerful. All of Necro was much weaker a year and a half ago. Axe just looks bad now because it looks more like it was originally. ;p

Axe fits best in spite is why. It deals direct damage and non-damaging conditions.

Axe is generally fine in an A/x D/x build where you can constantly swap between the two weapon sets, DS, and utility skills to not have to auto attack much, or if you are an MM and the AA is fine.

Looking at it from a WvW perspective, I think axe is amazing and wouldn’t run anything else for a power build. Essentially perma-retal and mass cripples is enough of a reason to run axe over dagger.

Actually I think axe was stronger during beta, they nerfed it at launch. Then about a year ago, increased the damage of #2 by 10% and also switched the trait from Gmaster to master. So they have improved axe and I hope they at least add cleave, and/or increase the range to 900 like scepter.

Again I feel it’s a hybrid weapon: some range, some conditions, some damage, but not the greatest at any. I feel the vuln stacking and retaliation are useful. I enjoy the #2 skill as well, but when I really want to drop a zerker warrior, I just maul him with dagger and watch him fall.

Zerker warriors can go back to dungeons and time how fast they kill Lupicus, that’s all they’re good for.

vulnerability and retaliation aren’t hybrid stats …

Xyonon.3987:

vulnerability and retaliation aren’t hybrid stats …

They arent stats at all…

One is a condition and the other a boon. But if you mean that power (and crit) builds use them in the most effective way, then you are right.

If by any chance a dev reads this, just sayin that full zerker necros rather go with scepter in tpvp. just sayin…

I was testing the axe around in the mists and noticed something. Axe #1 is no longer an auto attack? What is with this?
I now had to keep pressing 1 on my keyboard to keep the attack going? Anet wants to punish people that use axe with RSI?

edit: not even holding my key in bottom works. I actually have to lift my finger from hte button to repeat the attack.

Autoattack sometimes gets turned off. Try ctrl+right-clicking on the 1 icon.

You are right, it works now again. My bad.

Both axe 1 and 2 should get a damage buff. 2 is really low dps considering the channel time.

Either that or they should increase it to 2000 range so its current damage reflects its distance from danger. In all seriousness 900/1200 range is the kind of distance i expect to have on a weapon with the axes lvl of dps.

It could be buffed to 750 range. Would help alot really since I often find myself being just outside of range when a target actively tries to escape. This is in PvP.

I’m content with the range on axes. What I would like to see is Rending Claws (Axe #1) chain into a stronger 2nd skill/3rd attack.

Between piercing and AoE, I personally don’t care about a cleave attack.