Guild Wars 2

The mesmer can create a downed clone of itself and a phantasm to attack the foes, the guardian can push every single person next to it away and heal, the thief can teleport and go invisible. What does the necro do? He gives ONE single enemy a one second fear and places poison on the ground which people can simply move out of.

This has screwed me over many times in PvP and WvW, if my team’s with me and I get downed as a guardian I’m able to buy me some time while others try pushing the foes away and revive me. As a thief I can teleport to my allies to get revived, the mesmer buys me a lot of time as well.

However if I get downed as a necro I’m completely done for, even if my allies are there close by, because I can only fear one foe for one second I believe and that’s it, then I just sit there and watch someone else finish me off.

At the very least I should be able to fear every foe around me as my 2nd downed state ability, compared to the guardian it would be about the same. Compared to everything else the one target 1 sec fear is pathetic.

I completely agree. Other classes downed states far surpass ours. I think they did this as balance around the deathshroud mechanic.
What i would really hope for is for our downed state to cause anyone attacking us or stomping to gain bleed stacks over time, or some sort of escape mechanism like the mesmer etc.

Aside of the three classes you mentioned, the downed states of other classes aren’t much different from the Necro’s. You’re complaining about the wrong things.

Yep, OP is definitely wrong. Necro’s downed is average at worst. The worst down state, by far, in contrary to OP’s point of view, is the ele’s, since the ele doesn’t even have access to an interrupt (against stomp). So as usual unwarranted necro hate as per the hype train.

No, elementalist’s downed state is worst. Necro one is indeed average.

I don’t believe the OP is wrong. I think our downed state abilities are quite ‘meh’ and lacking. Just because downed state isn’t high on everyones list of things to be fixed about this class or looked at does not mean that it does not deserve balancing and tweaks just like the rest of the necro bugged/ not working/ and baffling skills.

It’s only fair the three strongest classes (mesmer, guardian, thief) should get the strongest downed state abilities too.

Necro’s are in line with warriors, rangers, engineers

Ele’s have the worst

Teknomancer.8475:

I don’t believe the OP is wrong. I think our downed state abilities are quite ‘meh’ and lacking. Just because downed state isn’t high on everyones list of things to be fixed about this class or looked at does not mean that it does not deserve balancing and tweaks just like the rest of the necro bugged/ not working/ and baffling skills.

1 being a self-heal actually makes it quite potent since it helps bring you back faster when you’re being resurrected and can keep you from dying longer (the latter at least in PvE). The fear is in line with other interrupts in the downed state.
If anything, the downed state of the more powerful classes should be brought in line with those of the rest. Mesmers in particular can stay up for absolutely ridiculous amounts of time due to their broken 2 ability.

Ours is pretty handy in PvE though. The life drain skill is another downed heal I use in dungeons all the time. We also can trait an AOE fear on down if you’re so inclined.

Morelia.6835:

1 being a self-heal actually makes it quite potent since it helps bring you back faster when you’re being resurrected and can keep you from dying longer (the latter at least in PvE). The fear is in line with other interrupts in the downed state.
If anything, the downed state of the more powerful classes should be brought in line with those of the rest. Mesmers in particular can stay up for absolutely ridiculous amounts of time due to their broken 2 ability.

True, perhaps it is more of a problem that the other classes should be brought down a notch instead of reworking all the others. Our downed state is actually good for pve as some have said, just feels very much below some of these others in pvp, which as you pointed out , they really need to be brought in line with the rest. Shrug.

Necros have the highest damage downstate, with the 50% increase dmg trait, we can drop absolutely anybody from 50% into downed state before they can finish us in a 1v1. (unless they are tricky thieves and mesmers doing stealth finishes)

Now, if you got destroyed and put into downstate and they still have heal up, nothing is gonna save u but the same is said about any class in that situation.

I wouldn’t know about the other’s classes downed state other than necro, thief, guardian, mesmer, and ranger.

And it’s kind of silly to say our downed state is useful in PvE because just about anything is useful in PvE. Also it’s not as if it’d be nice to have some sort of over powered awesome downed state, just something that gives me a small hope for survivability. While those other classes I stated have a decent downed state survivability the necro has zero (in PvP/WvW) because fearing one target is useless. Also while the health drain is useful in PvE (just like almost anything), it’s useless in PvP unless under very specific isolated situations.

I honestly find Necro downed nice, would be better if it first put you into DS, then when the life force is out into the current downed state, but still nice.

BTW

Necros have the highest damage downstate, with the 50% increase dmg trait.

Every single class has a +50% in downed and the base damage of all downed states is overall the same (necro just looks better because of the life steal component and that poison has a minimum flat damage no matter what).

I’m gonna go with others and say the life drain on #1 is pretty much my favorite downed skill. Everyone’s #4 is the same and is normally useless, since it interrupts if you take any damage. Our #1 ability has a slight lead-in followed by sustained damage and health regen.

Our #2 is pretty bad though, since the fear is short and single target onry. I dunno about #3 since i’m normally either on my feet or dead by the time i have a chance to use it.

In PvP people don’t always stomp. The smarter tactic is normally to kill any other living teammates before trying to kill people who are downed. Just hitting them with damage every now and then to ensure they can’t use #4 to get up is all you need. Area skills already being used are usually enough to make sure of that.

Jackal.7432:

I’m gonna go with others and say the life drain on #1 is pretty much my favorite downed skill.

I agree our #1 is nice since it lets us constantly damage the enemy while healing letting us stick around for a while longer. But usually that doesn’t do you much since it’s not enough to kill someone and get up. The thief’s is a dagger which bounces between foes letting you damage everyone around, and the mesmer’s is one of my favorite since it adds confusion, stacking up confusion you can really deal damage to your target.

However the issue with downed state is trying to survive long enough to get someone to help get you up, and that’s what #2 is used for, and on that note our one target fear sucks.

Our #1 helps a bit since our fear sucks, but unless you’re in a very specific situation it’s not gonna do you much good anyway.

I would really wan’t to see the fear become an aoe and be longer. Becuase it isn’ fair how the guardian can just blow a bunch of people away and we can’t. It’s awesome to have something like that in WvW if you die between a massive zerg. Also necro’s are supposed to be the masters of fear, however we only got one from staff skill and it’s like a 1 second fear >.>

iiMulch.2138:

Also necro’s are supposed to be the masters of fear, however we only got one from staff skill and it’s like a 1 second fear >.>

Agree, for some reason someone decided “hey, let’s make the necro’s only CC skill have large cooldowns, last no time at all – and on top of that, let’s only give him 2-3 of them to use. Oh and better yet, let’s make most of them single target!”

Lol yeah, I traited for 20% quicker cooldown on staff. Also traits on all different mark bonuses. My bleed on staff has a 4 sec cd, which is petty good. But the other 3 have really long cooldowns. Which sucks. Also fear is pointless since it lasts 1 1/4 seconds and has a 30 sec cd…

Our 1 is great thanks to its sustain
2 is garbage unless runes and traits and even if you have… its single target, your dead regardless if there is more then one. guardian thief and mesmer all out class our 2. war and engineer are on par. ele is bad.
3 is nice damage….. to bad your almost dead. Pure damage is nice and all but whats the use if your almost dead? even if you down the target your almost dead. Your not recovering at this point even with the sustain from 1 unless a teammate comes to help.
4 is irreverent

BTW

Necros have the highest damage downstate, with the 50% increase dmg trait.

Every single class has a +50% in downed and the base damage of all downed states is overall the same (necro just looks better because of the life steal component and that poison has a minimum flat damage no matter what).

I was referring to skill 1 + skill 3 which is higher damage than any other class can do in downed state. I know that every class has the +50% trait, i was using the trait in conjunction with the affirmation that we could put people into downed from 50% health. The #3 does apply poison, but it also pulses damage to those standing in it (namely those trying to finish you), with the trait it can crit for over 1000 ontop of the #1’s constant damage.

Necro down state is really good. You can’t interrupt multiple people stomping, but that’s an issue with other classes not yours. Granted I mainly play mesmer, thief, and engi. Mesmer, thief, and guardian downed states need a nerf to the 2’s.

I personally think the other downed state (besides mesmer, theif, and guardian) should be buffed up to par with those classes.

Why? Because ANet already said that the downed state is an opportunity for the player to rally up before being dead dead. It should annoy the players trying to stomp as much as possible.

I think it would help if that fear becomes aoe, that’s frankly all the buff to it we need.

@mangocheesecake
Agree completely, what’s even the point of going into downed state if it just means “oh well I’m dead anyway, might as well just sit here and let them finish me”, it should indeed give the enemies some frustration while trying to finish you off.

Also agree that our downed state is pretty decent other than the very (VERY) crucial CC skill #2, which is the crappy one target short duration fear.

Every necromancer fear in the game needs a serious buff (duration and # of targets).

Probably in the minority as I don’t pvp all that much. But I happen to find the necro down state a HUGE improvement to my Elementalists. If I have one guy left I can usually kill him from full health to dead on my Necro just using the fear and the first ability which is a damaging LIFE drain. How awesome is that. You are healing yourself with your autoattack and killing the thing. That means instead of hitting bandage and hoping you aren’t getting hit. You can keep killing and heal yourself. I have a thief and the 1-2 second invis usually doesn’t allow me to get away at all. And sure you can teleport a few feet but that usually gets me killed faster as I have a chance of porting into another group of mobs.

I’d rather see other classes nerfed down to where necro’s downed state is. Mesmer is just godmode, 5stacks of confusion with TP + invis and 2 clones, it’s just retardily strong.

No. Ele have the worst downstate. It does suck that they nerfed our damage in the downstate. It was fun to out heal incoming damage just with 1. Now its next to useless in PVE that i have found, just does too little damage. Now either the best downstate need to be nerfed or all the others need a buff. There is no reason why some Prof should get an AOE interrupt while others only get a single target. If they just made 2 an AOE fear it would be fine. And while they are at it they should switch 2 and 3 on the Ele and it would be fixed.

All I want to say is that mesmer downed state is the best downed state in the game… My god, it’s so good.

For those that don’t know:

#1: Spammable, stacks 1 confuse for 8 seconds per use. You can stack 10+ confuse on someone while downed. One of the best confuse stackers mesmer even gets.
#2: Turn invisible for 3 seconds, teleport in a random direction, leave clone behind (which is also in downed state and spams #1). Given a few moments in battle, you can do this twice, leaving multiple copies of you laying around and making it really hard for people to stomp the right mesmer.
#3: Create a phantasmal “rogue” to deal damage to opponent. Deals 2x damage from behind. Why was this made only for downed state? I don’t even think most people know what this phantasm actually does. It’s odd that it’s a special phantasm that does double damage from behind, but is only accessible while you’re downed.
#4: Same as everyone else’s.

That #2 ability is by far my favorite #2 downed ability of any profession. The #1 is also very very strong.

Why are mesmers so good?

I would say that Ele’s are the worst. Their 2 can hold a single target and they usually get stomped before 3 kicks in. Even if 3 does kick in it usually doesn’t last long enough to get very far from your enemies.

Narmix.4862:

All I want to say is that mesmer downed state is the best downed state in the game… My god, it’s so good.

For those that don’t know:

#1: Spammable, stacks 1 confuse for 8 seconds per use. You can stack 10+ confuse on someone while downed. One of the best confuse stackers mesmer even gets.
#2: Turn invisible for 3 seconds, teleport in a random direction, leave clone behind (which is also in downed state and spams #1). Given a few moments in battle, you can do this twice, leaving multiple copies of you laying around and making it really hard for people to stomp the right mesmer.
#3: Create a phantasmal “rogue” to deal damage to opponent. Deals 2x damage from behind. Why was this made only for downed state? I don’t even think most people know what this phantasm actually does. It’s odd that it’s a special phantasm that does double damage from behind, but is only accessible while you’re downed.
#4: Same as everyone else’s.

That #2 ability is by far my favorite #2 downed ability of any profession. The #1 is also very very strong.

Why are mesmers so good?

It is very easy to down the right Mesmer. There is a large Red (down) arrow over their head. That is the correct Mesmer every time. The other tell is that the Real Mesmer always shows up second when they use 2.

I will say that the confusion thing is bull, can keep a player from doing much of anything.

Doesn’t anyone think the Engineer’s downed state is the best, with the right timing and all? You can even ‘pull’ people in stealth stomp.

What about something similar to the warrior’s ‘last stance’ skill but more in line with undeath / necro theme.

‘Cheat death’ 15 sec cool down. " Reanimates the necromancer’s body into temporary undeath. Last 15 sec, after which you are defeated. Grants a new skill bar

Would be cool, and more useful than the current poison ground effect, and would fit really well wih the necro’s mythical ability to cheat / mitigate / subvert death . .

Have you seen the Elementalist’s down state? In PvP the game isn’t over until you’ve delivered a death blow… unless your fighting an Elementalist.

Necromancer’s downed state skills are average. I would make the life siphoning on our ‘1’ ability worth a puppy so that we could stand a chance at resurrecting ourselves. I’d also make our fear AoE. The PBAoE poison is fine. It can down whomever you are fighting if they are low. My first proposed change may be a little OP though.

I have to disagree, necromancers don’t have a downstate that could trick an opponent and permit you to get back into the fight, necro’s downstate shines when vs other downed opponents, which happens quite a lot because of the bleeding damage type of the necro. You win 90% of the downed vs downed battles because of the poison… you heal… they don’t.

Do you have the feel the Necromancer downed state is severly bugged?
Sometimes in sPvP I kill a player with #1 when he is already down but I don’t get rally, I also miss rally when I deal damage to a foe and another player kill him.
I maybe lack knowledge how rally works but I’ve seen many opponents doing my same things and get rally.
I didn’t seen any bug related but I feel many problems to get rally, hard to issue when you are down.

I do sometimes feel like it’s bugged, sometimes I get down and I’m surrounded, and just tokitten someone off I use my fear skill on them (cause let’s be honest, using that fear won’t buy you any sort of time other than tokitten one single person off) and after casting the fear they’re still there standing right next to me, not moved an inch.

I am playing a Necro now from originally playing a Elementalist…

Let me say, Necro downed state is OP in comparison, with the ele, at this point I just sit there and let whatever it is attacking me kill me, with my necro, I atleast have a chance of fighting back as I lay there.

Prowl.5097:

I am playing a Necro now from originally playing a Elementalist…

Let me say, Necro downed state is OP in comparison, with the ele, at this point I just sit there and let whatever it is attacking me kill me, with my necro, I atleast have a chance of fighting back as I lay there.

If you’re fighting against one other person and one person only. Because the moment there’s even just one other person fighting you, it’s an instant lose.

I had no idea how crappy the elementalist’s downed #2 was. However the #3 is amazingly powerful, too bad it’s true you’ll most likely be dead by the time you get to use it.

As a necro there are various times I manage to survive long enough to use #3 (and die the moment I finish using it), as an elementalist if I were able to use #3 I’d be set.

I like my Necro downed state abilities. The life drain does a good bit of damage and keeps me alive a little bit longer. The fear is useful when being stomped but it’s way too short. Just like every other necro fear.

Hufflepuffer.4201:

It’s only fair the three strongest classes (mesmer, guardian, thief) should get the strongest downed state abilities too.

Necro’s are in line with warriors, rangers, engineers

Ele’s have the worst

Exactly. ANet is just consistent .)

Hufflepuffer.4201:

It’s only fair the three strongest classes (mesmer, guardian, thief) should get the strongest downed state abilities too.

Necro’s are in line with warriors, rangers, engineers

Ele’s have the worst

This would be a much more accurate assessment. I concur with this person.

Ele’s is the worst, necros isnt bad and definitly not the worst. The life drain has saved me and so has the fear.

Not every class has a “+50% damage while downed” trait. The elementalist, for example, does not. The elementalist only has one trait that does anything to downed state at all and its a short duration very short range aoe around us when we go down. The Number 2 downed state ability is a channeled immobilize that does absolutely nothing to stop or interrupt a stomp. At least that short duration fear the necro has interrupts the stomp giving you another precious few seconds for an ally to show up. The elementalist downed state #3 ability has its uses because 3 seconds of invulnerability is nice however in PvE, the mobs just follow you for 3 seconds and stomp you the moment it ends and in PvP, unless you are in a big group fight, it’s not gonna stop you from getting stomped for the same reason.

I would have to agree, we have 1 single target fear when there is usually several players around, so its meaningless. And even if there is only 1 its easier to come back and kill us than other classes with much better diversions.

I also feel my life runs out in no time from damage in downed state, does downed not use toughness or something? I see other classes taking a beating on the ground for 5-10 seconds and it seems like my downed health bar gets taken out in a few seconds by comparison.

Aerian.2751:

Not every class has a “+50% damage while downed” trait. The elementalist, for example, does not.

But that just makes sense. Why bother to give elementalist a +50% damage while downed trait when everyone knows ele downed state is completely worthless? No one would ever take it!

Threads like this are testament to how class forums will throw a pity party about anything.

If you think necro downed state is bad try elementalist or hunter. Also memser downed state is weak, bads just don’t know how to easily tell which mesmer is the real one and which is the clone.

Hm, when listing guardian, thief and mesmer you actually listed the classes with the most powerful downed skills. I don’t think necros are bad, it’s just that the downed skills of the the 3 classes are way too good, especially mesmer.

Also, ele is pretty much useless when downed. I always pity the fools as most of them just accept their defeat and not even attack.

When every class has an interrupt on it’s second skill except one it’s weird. (or two, i’m not sure if the ranger actually interrupts the finish animation)

@Ergo Proxy: In the case your name is a reference to the anime, I really like it!

It’s our best skill underwater.

Was doing an event underwater to kill a champion mob, died instantly and was able to sit at ranged just life tapping to maintain hp and rotate between the Piranha’s and Poison/Fear and do better dmg at a safe distance compared to our crappy underwater weapons lol. And that was w/o the downed state trait. =/

Necro does need a much better downed state. OR nerf warrior/thief/mesmer.

I’ve seen warriors with three spikers knock back all the spikers and then get up? I’ve never been able to siphon enough life to recover while opponents still stood.

If anyone has ever tried 1v1 a mesmer as a necro it is nearly impossible. Then if by some miracle you get the mesmer down, you spend a lot of time trying to spike the correct illusion. If it was a close battle and you have very low health, you will still have a very good chance of losing.

And remember that time as a necro when you finally soloed that thief? You did everything right and somehow your garbage damage and your dots took him down 5 minutes after the fight began? Then you have to deal with the a-hole disappearing while you try to spike?

Everytime someone says the necro is underpowered, a bunch of people come out of the woodwork and say necro is so great at pvp. If you are going to use my post as an opportunity to do defend necro could you please post your build and or a video proving it.

I agree with Player One. Necros are not garbage, we can handle ourselves well enough but compared to other classes if the other person knows what they’re doing we almost always end up losing or struggle to survive.