Guild Wars 2

I dont care… I do not use Terror… but I love dhuumfire!

I have played Necro as my main for a very long time, this patch did not made us OP, but helped a lot for conditionmancers, at least for me… I am having a lot of fun bleeding and burning people down… torment is cool but it is far from OP, we have it in one skill only and the damage is not that great.

I think the fact is Necros are hard to play, and there are a lot of bad necros around… so people was used to find us easy prey… but now those that are already experienced necro players got some buffs and are competitive and people are getting scared of if… just a matter of time to people to get used to it and learn how to fight us.

yes you can pull off massive amounts of damage using epidemic, but let’s face it:

it is highly situational, needs to be built up, gets countered by save your selves (+ immunity), it used to gets countered by putrid mark (I’m not sure if it does anymore because of the hidden changes) and gets its most power when 5 ppl are working together

epidemic is the finishing piece in a puzzle, a series of attacks excecuted by your team

c’mon let’s face it, you can wipe a team with engineer bombs or grenades, you can wipe a team with wall of reflection, you can wipe a team with feedback bubble, you can wipe the team with dagger storm

now don’t say to me that necromancers are the only profession that can, under perfect sircumstances, wipe a team of 5 players

if there is something to do, then make epidemic not unblockable, but if they do that I want them to bring Corrupt Boon back to convert all boons. But sure make it not unblockable, I don’t mind, but first make it more reliable to hit.

albotelho.2931:

I dont care… I do not use Terror… but I love dhuumfire!

I have played Necro as my main for a very long time, this patch did not made us OP, but helped a lot for conditionmancers, at least for me… I am having a lot of fun bleeding and burning people down… torment is cool but it is far from OP, we have it in one skill only and the damage is not that great.

This is like saying: Thieves are not OP because I, as a thief, don’t use stealth.

This whole discussion is about the combo burning/terror, so if you only use Dhuumfire then yeah.. the patch didn’t make you OP.

I don’t buy the OP’s claim, which may be because I don’t see what’s so great about Dhuumfire. Engineers have always had literally the exact same trait for 10 points and it’s not taken all that often because of the cooldown. Both professions seem about equivalent in their ability to dump conditions on people now.

Again, Dhuumfire by itself… not op. In combo with Terror/bleeding/torment: too strong. Engenieers don’t have that combo, that’s why Incendiary Powder is fine for them, even as an adept trait.

flow.6043:

albotelho.2931:

I dont care… I do not use Terror… but I love dhuumfire!

I have played Necro as my main for a very long time, this patch did not made us OP, but helped a lot for conditionmancers, at least for me… I am having a lot of fun bleeding and burning people down… torment is cool but it is far from OP, we have it in one skill only and the damage is not that great.

This is like saying: Thieves are not OP because I, as a thief, don’t use stealth.

This whole discussion is about the combo burning/terror, so if you only use Dhuumfire then yeah.. the patch didn’t make you OP.

then you are saying that terror it’s the problem?

vicious.5683:

flow.6043:

albotelho.2931:

I dont care… I do not use Terror… but I love dhuumfire!

I have played Necro as my main for a very long time, this patch did not made us OP, but helped a lot for conditionmancers, at least for me… I am having a lot of fun bleeding and burning people down… torment is cool but it is far from OP, we have it in one skill only and the damage is not that great.

This is like saying: Thieves are not OP because I, as a thief, don’t use stealth.

This whole discussion is about the combo burning/terror, so if you only use Dhuumfire then yeah.. the patch didn’t make you OP.

then you are saying that terror it’s the problem?

no, he’s saying the combination of all of them easily available in one build is the problem. The whole is greater than the sum of its parts. Its a combined dps issue, coupled with a lack of counterplay issue. CC can be countered by any profession, so can conditions. The combination of long cc and high dps conditions in a big stack is not something that is easily counterable by most professions. Many professions would have to build specifically to counter it, and even then, would have a mediocre counter to it.

So it’s not a single skill/trait issue. If you’re not running that specific build, you probably don’t see it. It’s only when you combine them all together that people start complaining and that nerf stick rears its ugly head.

flow.6043:

albotelho.2931:

I dont care… I do not use Terror… but I love dhuumfire!

I have played Necro as my main for a very long time, this patch did not made us OP, but helped a lot for conditionmancers, at least for me… I am having a lot of fun bleeding and burning people down… torment is cool but it is far from OP, we have it in one skill only and the damage is not that great.

This is like saying: Thieves are not OP because I, as a thief, don’t use stealth.

This whole discussion is about the combo burning/terror, so if you only use Dhuumfire then yeah.. the patch didn’t make you OP.

Thieves are not OP, stealth isn’t either, only a noob would say that.

Putting doom back to a flat 1 second fear and making terror not have the +50% damage on conditioned foes should be enough of a fix…

I just wish they would have put a more spite like trait in the grand master slot…. Honestly Dhuum fire feels meh for power and kinda meh in general… I would have rather had a flat damage on hit proc or something like barbs/soul barbs from gw1….. Hell a power scaling skill would have fit the tree more…

Soul barbs
10 damage +.02 per power caps at 60 damage on hit… Would take exactly 2500 power to hit the cap…. But most see this as a meh they think necromancers are 100% condition based and shouldn’t have any direct damage toys.

Dakiaris.2798:

Putting doom back to a flat 1 second fear and
making terror not have the +50% damage on conditioned foes should be enough of a fix…

If this, nerf only one of them Doom of Terror. Nerfing both is very bad idea, since doom is perfect saving tool in 1vs1 and Terror is best offensive possobility for condi spec.

Dakiaris.2798:

Putting doom back to a flat 1 second fear and making terror not have the +50% damage on conditioned foes should be enough of a fix…

Nerfing Terror only to reduce the damage spike on Dhuum/Terror builds would just force everyone to take Dhuumfire to compensate.

Also, 1 sec instead of 1,5 for Doom wouldn’t do much. Maybe sometimes you’d get 1 fear tick less depending on your timing and build. But ultimately the real problem remains, other classes can’t cleanse fast enough.

Hey guys… i have something for you…

NECROMANCER OP

Long story short, i don’t use burning, i got moa-ed, i killed him… necromancer is OP.

Doesn’t it makes the blood rush to your head when you see how every random … no matter how … he is he still expects to kill a necromancer, and if he doesn’t we are OP ?

The whole point of being a condition mancer and being able to load conditions is that they cannot COMPLETELY* MITIGATE OUR ENTIRE DAMAGE OUTPUT by one click of the button. How can you not see that, we are supposed to flood conditions to do damage. If they can’t be defensive and run a condition cleans, or a defensive ability then so be it. YOu cannot completely mitigate direct damage other than a heal, nor can you heal others effectively. However another player, or a variety of OTHER PLAYERS can completely mitigate the damage you do to them and everyone else on their team as another player can use an aoe cleanse and your what???? useless. So forget it, i dont give a crap about another player whining that we are godkitten op because he does not want to run a stun break or a godkitten cleanse. If they want to cry, let them. they need to learn wtf we just went through for the last gokitten 10 months of being nullified completely by anyone who has a cleanse. now, if they use their cleanse, it does not completely erase our damage.

Look ar Arcing Arrow or Kill shot. If the warrior gets the skills of, damage is done. end of the line, end of the story. No way back then. And our heals certainly won’t keep us up long. Why should condition damage be any different? These listed warrior skills easely can do 4-16k depending on build. Condition damage just scares ppl because of the amount of small numbers popping on their heads.

Everything is fine. Dhuumfire could use a slight tweak down (or change, i think burning modifier is quite high, and however you wanna balance it, it might be to strong, giving it 3 bleed stacks might be better). Mesmer could use a small condition clearing boost. (I repeat SMALL), lik 25 sec cooldown effect to clear 1 condition, in adept trait, or utility. And ranger could use a bigger condition clearing boost. Ofc dont overdue it, but Ranger need more reliable condition removal. (The Brown bear underwater skill, should be there on ground level too, it would solve a lot of problems).

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Dhuumfire could use a slight tweak down (or change, i think burning modifier is quite high, and however you wanna balance it, it might be to strong, giving it 3 bleed stacks might be better).

*torment
One of the reasons why this is so effective is that your bleed stacks are protected because other conditions take up cleansing spots.
With more bleeding you leave your damage source more exposed to be cleansed, also you’d have more problems with the 25 stack cap.

Btw, in case anyone’s wondering, this has already been tested: torment is cleansed before bleeding.

Three things annoy me right now:
1) all these people who “mained” necro a long time ago, and came back now and now all they care about is balance, especially when it comes to nerfing “us” as they say.

2) anyone who says that they preferred the necro pre-patch since they don’t like to be fotm. That is so dumb it makes my neurons commit suicide by jumping out of my ears. It’s better to be OP and/or fotm but viable rather than UP and a special unique snowflake – period.

3) people playing other classes that are suddenly experts in “what needs to be done to bring necro in line” when they get stomped by one. Doesn’t even matter what kind of spec that necro was playing – it’s basically “if a necro kill me, it’s OP”

We will probably get nerfed slightly as we may be a tad too strong now but honestly we should all just be happy to be on the pvp map again but leave it to the devs to decide how that should be done and enjoy your class.

So much negativity on the forums lately…

Phoebe Ascension.8437:

Look ar Arcing Arrow or Kill shot. If the warrior gets the skills of, damage is done. end of the line, end of the story. No way back then. And our heals certainly won’t keep us up long. Why should condition damage be any different? These listed warrior skills easely can do 4-16k depending on build. Condition damage just scares ppl because of the amount of small numbers popping on their heads.

Everything is fine. Dhuumfire could use a slight tweak down (or change, i think burning modifier is quite high, and however you wanna balance it, it might be to strong, giving it 3 bleed stacks might be better). Mesmer could use a small condition clearing boost. (I repeat SMALL), lik 25 sec cooldown effect to clear 1 condition, in adept trait, or utility. And ranger could use a bigger condition clearing boost. Ofc dont overdue it, but Ranger need more reliable condition removal. (The Brown bear underwater skill, should be there on ground level too, it would solve a lot of problems).

So the skills you compare this to are single target slow attacks that are easily telegraphed and hard to land, because just moving makes them miss. Any differences between those and the necro combos described as OP’d?

im a little amused by the debate over whether necro is OP or not. There’s those other classes whos main arguement is “i used to be able to kill necros but i cant anymore”, so basically u want necros to be nerfed until u can kill them? Doesnt that just mean ppl wont be happy until they are able to kill every other class easily? Ill repeat what many ppl from many classes have said b4 “just because you cant kill a class doesnt make it overpowered”.

Yes necro dhuumfire+doom is very very strong but 30/30/10/0/0 provides very little defense making fire/fear necros somewhat of a targeted player in games. hmmmm what other class can have alot of dmg while being squishy? oh thats rite pretty much all of them.

Dhuumfire imo SHOULD be nerfed somewhat (making the cd longer for example to make it less sustained dps-like) sadly i doubt anet will make this change i mean after all, no1 likes to admit they were wrong. However do note that power built classes still do more burst than a necro and seen a necro has pretty much no stability or reliable escape skill, they can be easily cc focused and killed.

also ppl that say spectral wall is OP? i have found an ingenius ways to counter it: WALK AROUND, seriously if u are going to walk head on into a shimmering green ghastly wall u deserve it.

the last patch simply made necros viable if not having a slight edge. But by no means does this make them OP. From my understanding necros were lacking on the pvp scene and now suddenly they can compete.

Dhuumfire is new, therefore there wud obviously be some problems with it. It is unreasonable to expect anet to perfectly implement new aspects into a class right off the bat. Just like it is unreasonable to expect to be able to counter a classes playstyle right away when you’ve been fighting them for such a short time. Give it time, ppl need to adapt to the new changes and remember that anet has to cater for all proffesions not just your own.

flow.6043:

Nerfing Terror only to reduce the damage spike on Dhuum/Terror builds would just force everyone to take Dhuumfire to compensate.

Also, 1 sec instead of 1,5 for Doom wouldn’t do much. Maybe sometimes you’d get 1 fear tick less depending on your timing and build. But ultimately the real problem remains, other classes can’t cleanse fast enough.

0.5 sec is actually quite a lot, when you have 200% fear duration, it equals 50% more damage and with my (WvW) build it equals about 1.5k damage

but I do agree that the real problem sitll remains… IMO torment (DS5) together with dhuumfire is creating unbalance in the game as some classes had it already difficult to clear all the old conditions fast enough (chill, cripple, bleed, poison, and now in addition to those: torment and immobilize with burn in hybrid builds)

ofcourse it is hard to maintain all those at once on an opponent but we have now quite many cover up conditions

flow.6043:

Again, Dhuumfire by itself… not op. In combo with Terror/bleeding/torment: too strong. Engenieers don’t have that combo, that’s why Incendiary Powder is fine for them, even as an adept trait.

I guess. Although my Engineer can drop 12 stacks of confusion, 20+ seconds of burning, 10+ seconds of poison, and finish off with as many stacks of bleeding as you’ll let me spam on you in like 5-6 seconds, not to mention cripple and blinding as bonuses, and then do it all again 10 seconds later in case the entire thing is cleansed. During those 10 seconds I have plenty of blinds/immobilizes/knockdowns to drop, too. A Necro’s torment/terror/burning combo is accessible only every 40 seconds with a 30/30/10/0/0 build. Even if this particular combo is a larger condition spike, it doesn’t match the consistent flurry of various conditions Engineers are dropping. That sounds pretty balanced to me.

Which says to me that Engineers get this trait so easily not because they don’t have the same combo but because it’s really not such a great trait and they already have other ways to get burning. The only reason it’s not looked at as a weak trait for Necros is because they have no other access to burning so they’re willing to spend 30 points just to get a relatively weak trait that allows them to get some spike condition damage every 40 seconds. Again, seems pretty balanced.

The thing about Dhuumfire is that before, when people fought a condi necro, they thought: Oh, look some bleed stacks ahahaha (the same response people have when they see a condi thief)

Now they are getting hit double by what can be a very long lasting burn as well as recurring bleed stacks, as well as a bunch of other random conditions.

That is a big deal for professions with bad condition removal.