Guild Wars 2

Burning in the power trait line favors hybrid builds… if they mess with terror it will tone down hybrid builds a bit, but make condition builds worse then they were…

A conditionmancer is not going to go 30 into power to get burning, then you will have burning and not much of anything else… that gets removed and you get dead.

In a hybrid build however it’s different, they remove your conditions you continue with power damage until you can get conditions back up.

Also in a hybrid build you don’t reach 1600 condition damage, you only get to 1000 tops.
Still squishy though… still can’t escape fights…

Maybe adjust the damage a bit on terror and move it to grandmaster instead of withering precision, since we did get torment and conditions builds got a boost, a terror decrease won’t be too much of a nerf, but that’s about it.

Dasboba.1652:

Nemesis.8593:

In PvP it is strong, really strong… but we are the squishy ones… thief is squishy too but he has stealth, we have nothing.

b-b-but nemesis, we have death shroud! LOL!

Every other class in the game can survive focus fire… except us… that makes us the most squishy because we are always first targeted since players have learned that if they focus a necromancer, they’ll win.

Ever heard of anyone saying get the thief, get the mesmer, get the bunker elementalist ?… good luck trying…

They usually get the warriors and necromancers first, if you find any in TPvP teams that is… or use to be…

moving traits isn’t really an option at this point, and moving Terror up to GM level won’t accomplish anything in terms of balance. If anything it would further limit build diversity by placing our two strongest traits at one end of the build spectrum.

Terror’s damage increase likely needs to be removed since it was a holdover from when Terror was intended to bandaid our poor condition output. Doom now only requires 30% duration increase while within 600 range to gain the extra damage tick, and with burning on top of it we’ve gained roughly a 150% damage increase on a single combo.

Keep in mind though that as far as glass cannon builds go, our current hybrid build isn’t that far above status quo.

If they mess with terror it’s going to break a lot of condition builds that don’t need or want burning…

If they remove burning… what do you put instead of it ?…

hackks.3687:

moving traits isn’t really an option at this point, and moving Terror up to GM level won’t accomplish anything in terms of balance. If anything it would further limit build diversity by placing our two strongest traits at one end of the build spectrum.

Terror’s damage increase likely needs to be removed since it was a holdover from when Terror was intended to bandaid our poor condition output. Doom now only requires 30% duration increase while within 600 range to gain the extra damage tick, and with burning on top of it we’ve gained roughly a 150% damage increase on a single combo.

Keep in mind though that as far as glass cannon builds go, our current hybrid build isn’t that far above status quo.

And it is SINGLE TARGET SO WHO CARES, it’s not instant damage, its condition, so WHO CARES; it can be cleansed, SO WHO CARES; it could be STUN BREAKED, so WHO CARES, mmm no? you didint equip any cleanse? no stun breaker? you dint dodged thro spectral wall??? then.. youre a NOOB and you REALLY deserve to die and… WHO CARES!

Nemesis.8593:

If they mess with terror it’s going to break a lot of condition builds that don’t need or want burning…

If they remove burning… what do you put instead of it ?…

anything related to power..or maybe even survivability! Maybe a significant decrease in the cd of spectral armor…maybe stability as well to spectral armor. Spectral armor currently grants one boon…for 6 seconds…on a 60 second base cd…I think an improvement is not out of the question. Two boons instead of one is not going to make it OP. Maybe even add some might stacks to SA so that it can legitimately compete with wells in a power build.

Nemesis.8593:

If they mess with terror it’s going to break a lot of condition builds that don’t need or want burning…

If they remove burning… what do you put instead of it ?…

With the changes to the sigil, I am inclinde to go back to zero points in spite. To me the extra fear duration from MOT is going to be too hard to pass up. So my response would be.. who cares? It can go back to being an unimportant tree for condition necros, and lets all hope they buff up blood and death to not be awful trait lines.

Burning is not going anywhere. I wouldn’t worry about that.

I don’t see removing the 50% bonus damage as “messing with condition builds”. Even without burning, we still have the addition of Torment, and the new aoe immob on Tainted Shackles, Wells on shorter CDs, in addition to Signet of Spite change… I mean there’s all kinds of ways to do crazy damage now. It would just be nice to have some options at the other end of the trait lines to make choosing between damage and utility a little harder. Right now all out damage is our best utility and the only way we live up to our intended design.

ANet will bend, Reduce Dhummfire to 50% change of application, Moving terror to gransmaster, breaking the class again in the process.

Burning + Fear = OP nje nje… we saw this coming… Go ahead break the profession again!

I’m seriously disappointed at these so called ‘experts’ is that all of them fail to mention that the Necro is already heavily pigeon holed in certain builds as it is. Minion, Siphon build? Seriously? Compare those alternative builds to say a Dhuumfire/Terror build? Not even close, thus nerfing the latter instead of improving alternative builds break the class almost to pre-patch levels. Go ahead and see how the profession disappears again in a snap, I dare you.

mmm clarify me.. we alreaddy had the fears… now we got a 3sec burning every 10 secs… how is that op? cause terror+1 condition has more damage? WTF didnt we had all the other conditions allreaddy? y is the fire+terror OP? cause the fire adds a SINGLE target dps more? -.-?

Rennoko.5731:

Nemesis.8593:

If they mess with terror it’s going to break a lot of condition builds that don’t need or want burning…

If they remove burning… what do you put instead of it ?…

With the changes to the sigil, I am inclinde to go back to zero points in spite. To me the extra fear duration from MOT is going to be too hard to pass up. So my response would be.. who cares? It can go back to being an unimportant tree for condition necros, and lets all hope they buff up blood and death to not be awful trait lines.

Well that’s the thing… they can take my burning away… but not mess with my terror man, that’s not nice… messes up all the fear related PvP builds, which is basically what you need to be anything remotely effective as a condition necromancer in PvP…

It’s not only condition removal we have to worry about, it’s healing on top of condition removal… breaking fear makes us go back into the infinite cycle… we stack… we get denied… we stack… we get denied…

Just as a heads up on this thread, John Sharp actually said nothing about touching Terror, rather than doing something about necros now having probably too much DoT pressure as both Burning and Torment added to the difficulty of cleansing the bleeds, terror, and poison that we already had.

ANet never said they were looking at nerfing Terror, but rather the whole net result was too much. Chances are, they will look into nerfing some of our new stuff (so probably Dhuumfire)

hackks.3687:

Burning is not going anywhere. I wouldn’t worry about that.

I don’t see removing the 50% bonus damage as “messing with condition builds”. Even without burning, we still have the addition of Torment, and the new aoe immob on Tainted Shackles, Wells on shorter CDs, in addition to Signet of Spite change… I mean there’s all kinds of ways to do crazy damage now. It would just be nice to have some options at the other end of the trait lines to make choosing between damage and utility a little harder. Right now all out damage is our best utility and the only way we live up to our intended design.

No… the fact we have enough damage to not be “negligible” danage, we can focus on more utility… more attrition in a condition build.

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Does anyone else think that Withering Precision belongs in Spite about as much as Dhuumfire belongs in Curses?

As for balancing: I’d rather see them mess with Dhuumfire or the damage numbers on Terror (Condition burst got some big buffs with the possibility of burning and 3 stacks of torment, not to mention the greater access to Fear for necros) than move Terror up to a Grandmaster trait.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Noooooo… withering precision is now key to attrition necro…

I guess I would vote for just putting the Spite tree back the way it was and looking at potential improvements to spectral and healing skills. Te ability to withstand high damage is a core part of the Necromancer’s design principle. Protection, healing, toughness, rezing; those are skills that need to be tweaked and extended to cover allies, not adding spike damage.

I had suggested a non-linear healing scale for Necromancer and Warrior based on the amount and rate of damage taken but we got a condition in the power tree, instead.

Nemesis.8593:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Noooooo… withering precision is now key to attrition necro…

I realize Weakness got buffed, but didn’t that trait get kind of nerfed? It seemed to me that adding the internal cooldown of 20s really gutted where the trait shined before, which was builds that critted very frequently.

Softspoken.2410:

Nemesis.8593:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Noooooo… withering precision is now key to attrition necro…

I realize Weakness got buffed, but didn’t that trait get kind of nerfed? It seemed to me that adding the internal cooldown of 20s really gutted where the trait shined before, which was builds that critted very frequently.

But we have 2 other ways of getting weakness on now…

ODB.6891:

Nemesis.8593:

Oozo.7856:

Tommyknocker.6089:

As a powermancer that uses neither fear nor fire I approve the added survivability I won’t have to give up anything for.

Yeah, some good suggestions in this thread so far for power necros. Increase survivability and add burning to axe on crit. :P

Burning to axe ?… a condition to a power weapon… that makes a lot of sense…

I think adding burning was the mistake. It doesn’t fit with the death theme of necros and we could have gotten the same increase if they boosted the damage of our existing conditions…or even if they made torment stronger for us. I also feel that dhummfire is out of place as a grandmaster trait in the power tree.

I think terror is fine just like it is. Everyone is crying about it, but the duration is so short (less than 2 seconds base) and its breakable by stun breaks. They just spread stun breaks out to more abilities…I don’t see the issue here.

I think the cool down on spectral armor is still to long. still 60 second base cd on spectral armor…for 6 second duration?!? All it gives is life force when you take damage and protection for 6 seconds. I think the cd needs to be half of what it currently is AND provide stability.

Despite all the QQ, I think spectral wall needs to be buffed actually…it should block projectiles…hence the name spectral “wall”. Otherwise, just have it be a ground field like wells.

Spectral walk could use tweak too. That green trail is decent for flavor, but I think necros could stand to have at least one decent escape mechanism…change that to stealth instead of the green trail..at least that would be something functional and give melee necros and escape.

Oh yeah…cleave for axe and dagger please!

Cleave on dagger would be OP unless they lower it’s damage. Cleave on axe would be nice. I like your suggestions. Stability on spectral armor and having a reliable escape that forces people to rethink their target are what necromancer really needs now.

I think I am going to be very dissappointed very soon. I actually played so much more after this patch because my necro was finally viable now, and I COULD ACTUALLY ROAM IN WVW. Now, we will go back to what we were before… there, but not important, or game changing. This patch made necros viable in all forms of the game.

I still think the issue is not dhuumfire, terror, or tormet (or even the combo of all three). I think it comes down to the increase in base fear and the increase of fear duration due to a stupid sigil of paralysis.

There goes our necro again, already going to get buttslammed.

I really like our new burning ability alot, it put a lot of pressure, exactly what i needed for wvw roaming. I play a condimancer and i’ve found a build/palystyle that include this really effective new condition we have, without using any terror, cause i don’t find it useful for dynamic, small scale fights (it don’t work with my playstyle). So, as far as i’m concerned, i’d really want to keep the dhuumfire, or a something as powerful. I was already spec heavily into the spite tree for my condimancers build before, (for duration and signets), so please don’t screw builds that were effective before !

The problem with necros currently, and the reason for the cry is very simple.

1. have 40 percent crit and get dhuumfire to proc.

2. Flip to ds and get torment on everyone.

3. chain 2 fears together

This can be done in less than 3 seconds, and a player has no ability to respond during this time, because fear is ticking, you forced the extra torment damage, and burn is crazy powerful. It’s really strong right now but terror nerf isn’t what’s needed.

Nemesis.8593:

Softspoken.2410:

Nemesis.8593:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Honestly, as a Necromancer, I don’t mind Terror becoming a grandmaster trait. It’s so build-defining that it always surprised me that it was so low to begin with. I kind of hope that if they do this, they can just get rid of Withering Precision and replace it with something more meaningful.

Maybe they could give us a trait that actually helps in PvE and PvP, like a further 2% damage to opponents for each condition on them (stacks with Target the Weak) or something like that.

Noooooo… withering precision is now key to attrition necro…

I realize Weakness got buffed, but didn’t that trait get kind of nerfed? It seemed to me that adding the internal cooldown of 20s really gutted where the trait shined before, which was builds that critted very frequently.

But we have 2 other ways of getting weakness on now…

Actually we have 6 ways in total now: Enfeebling Blood, Weakening Shroud, Corrosive Poison Cloud + transfer, combo with Purtid Mark on poison fields, Withering Precision, Plague Form (Pestilence).

Withering Precision… 5 sec on a 20 sec icd, that is now one of the worst gm traits we have.
Also, weakness is key to attrition? Against multiple opponents it is still rather “weak”… especially if it comes from a trait with a 20 sec icd.

Bas.7406:

The problem with necros currently, and the reason for the cry is very simple.

1. have 40 percent crit and get dhuumfire to proc.

2. Flip to ds and get torment on everyone.

3. chain 2 fears together

This can be done in less than 3 seconds, and a player has no ability to respond during this time, because fear is ticking, you forced the extra torment damage, and burn is crazy powerful. It’s really strong right now but terror nerf isn’t what’s needed.

1. other classes have fear, with longer up time.

2. other classes have torment too.

3. only necros have fear damage (terror)

…
??
…
mmmm??
!!!!!

oh, maybe it has something to do with fear/terror

Reverting Doom’s fear on the old duration (1sec) and fixing paralyzation signet should be a good .The give some time to see if that lessens the crying.
After that people should be able to start coping with the extra burning every 10 seconds since it should be the only “new” thing on Necro’s arsenal.

Bas.7406:

The problem with necros currently, and the reason for the cry is very simple.

1. have 40 percent crit and get dhuumfire to proc.

2. Flip to ds and get torment on everyone.

3. chain 2 fears together

This can be done in less than 3 seconds, and a player has no ability to respond during this time, because fear is ticking, you forced the extra torment damage, and burn is crazy powerful. It’s really strong right now but terror nerf isn’t what’s needed.

That’s really oversimplifying it.

Saying there’s no way to respond is not true, you have to cast at least 2 abilities to get burning to proc (assuming 40% crit). Switching to DS doesn’t mean you are in range of your target, so you may need to drop DS2, which may or may not hit (And takes at least 2 seconds to travel). You can drop torment and fear but they’ve had 2-3 seconds to dodge/cleanse (A lot of classes have passive cleanses too) so there may not be any condis on them. They may also have stability up, which you cannot reliably remove anymore with Corrupt Boon, so you’ll have to wait that out. Or you may drop a fear and instantly have them use a stun breaker.

Not to say that it’s not very powerful, it is, but to say that players don’t have options is just not true.

that is exactly what i stated earlier Uberkafros. But they won’t listen and look at the facts. They are hearing only whines from the mesmers and thieves who can no longer kill us. The only class i feel worse for is the kitten warrior, that basically has to eat the damage like we do, and cannot clear his condis.

Bas.7406:

The problem with necros currently, and the reason for the cry is very simple.

1. have 40 percent crit and get dhuumfire to proc.

2. Flip to ds and get torment on everyone.

3. chain 2 fears together

This can be done in less than 3 seconds, and a player has no ability to respond during this time, because fear is ticking, you forced the extra torment damage, and burn is crazy powerful. It’s really strong right now but terror nerf isn’t what’s needed.

I also don’t agree because Fear is effected by a condition cleanse skill or a stun break. either one blocks terror damage and blocks being CC’s by fear. SO no, it forces people to use utilities they did not have to before vs a necro because our fear was no big deal because the damage was not that high. Now they actually have to run a stun break or a condi cleanse. And people don’t want to do that. Burning is cleansed easily as well.

Bas.7406:

The problem with necros currently, and the reason for the cry is very simple.

1. have 40 percent crit and get dhuumfire to proc.

2. Flip to ds and get torment on everyone.

3. chain 2 fears together

This can be done in less than 3 seconds, and a player has no ability to respond during this time, because fear is ticking, you forced the extra torment damage, and burn is crazy powerful. It’s really strong right now but terror nerf isn’t what’s needed.

yes, cause the target is NOOB AND DOESNT HAVE ANY CLEANSE/STUN BREAKER.. and thats necros fault???

Focus fire and Control (knockdown back etc..)

Until necros have options to defend against these they will never be OP in high level play.

Agreed with Xom. Playing a necro, I find that pressure—especially cc is the hardest to deal with since you have little access to stability unless you trait into it which may give you less results in the condi bursts that make them considered OP. Other than stability, they have doom on DS. Once you force that out of them, it’s a free cc combo game on them. Just don’t let them trap you in dat fear combo!

I could see them swapping terror with withering precision. That would put terror in grand master position, and since withering precision is so stupid/useless now who cares if it’s a master trait. Do that and fix the sigil of paralyzation. Then you have a good start at fixing the problem. I just hope they fix the entire mechanic of what a stun actually is. How can you have a stun break work but not have sigil of paralyzation work? I mean it’s either a stun or it’s not.

Necros! I love you!

I dont play one.. and i dont think you are OP

i play ranger thief and guardian.. those are my 80’s! i play others as well

just wanted to say im glad you got buffed and you are now a worthy fight.. i still win tho so your not OP yet

Beeing both a stun and a condition is more helpfull to the non-necros rather than to neecros….

on another note.. anyone who doesnt run condition removal deserves to die from your WRATH.. have fun :P

you will never catch me without it

Dasboba.1652:

I could see them swapping terror with withering precision. That would put terror in grand master position, and since withering precision is so stupid/useless now who cares if it’s a master trait. Do that and fix the sigil of paralyzation. Then you have a good start at fixing the problem. I just hope they fix the entire mechanic of what a stun actually is. How can you have a stun break work but not have sigil of paralyzation work? I mean it’s either a stun or it’s not.

Fear is a control effect which, like all the others, can be canceled by stun breaks, that is just the name… it has nothing to do with just stuns.

The Sigil of Pralyzation (according to anet) should not work like a +condition duration for fear, that’s why it gets a fix.

But keep in mind, the issue is that burning/terror/bleeding/torment does too much damage… do you think this will change only because your sigil takes away 15% fear duration? This wouldn’t even mean that you lose a tick.

Hurtappl.6405:

just wanted to say im glad you got buffed and you are now a worthy fight.. i still win tho so your not OP yet

glad to hear it… but you just haven’t played a good necro yet :/

They don’t want to change bleeds because it will ‘ruin the main builds’ ???

Um, nerfing terror would ruin all the old main builds. And pretty much force you to go burning+terror for condition build.

Hope this is made up, or they are patching up other areas of concern in compensation.

If they would give us real increased sustain, not 1% increase to DS generation skills, then I would be happy to trade off some offense for getting the class the way it was originally envisioned, sort of tanky sustain pressure.

Again, Jon Sharp (the ONLY Anet person on the SotG) said NOTHING about nerfing Terror or even touching it. People do need to listen closely to who is saying what in that podcast before they make these assumptions.

cyst.3108:

Bas.7406:

The problem with necros currently, and the reason for the cry is very simple.

1. have 40 percent crit and get dhuumfire to proc.

2. Flip to ds and get torment on everyone.

3. chain 2 fears together

This can be done in less than 3 seconds, and a player has no ability to respond during this time, because fear is ticking, you forced the extra torment damage, and burn is crazy powerful. It’s really strong right now but terror nerf isn’t what’s needed.

yes, cause the target is NOOB AND DOESNT HAVE ANY CLEANSE/STUN BREAKER.. and thats necros fault???

I wasn’t explaining that it happens. I was simply showing why people want it nerfed. I do it often enough. It’s hilariously funny and easy to do in hotjoins and queue’s. You can’t pull it off against a semi intelligent player though.

Remove Dumbfire and give us stealth on Spectral Walk and an actual teleport on Flesh Wurm.

Then let the kittening commence as we can no longer be assist trained into oblivion.

cyst.3108:

yes, cause the target is NOOB AND DOESNT HAVE ANY CLEANSE/STUN BREAKER.. and thats necros fault???

Necros have great Condition removal. Probably the best.
This makes it very hard to estimate how hard it is for other Professions to get rid of them until you’ve played multiple Professions.

For a quick estimate you can look at:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Many Necro builds get Condition removal just by running a good build.
Consume Conditions is the best healing skill for many builds.
Off-hand Dagger and the Staff are great.
All three are found in most Condition and Hybrid builds because they just rock!
(Our defense against Stuns is seriously lacking, though.)

Plague signet isn’t all bad either, having a stunbreak.

Many other Professions need to make pretty hefty sacrifices to get Condition removal.
Imagine if you had to run Shrouded Removal, Fetid Consumption and Well of Power to fight against Conditions.

You couldn’t run one of your current Utility skills because you need Well of Power.
You couldn’t run Greater Marks because you need Shrouded Removal.
You’d need to run 30 Blood Magic and have Minions.

Exaggerated example but… yeah.

LastDay.3524:

Necros have great Condition removal. Probably the best.

Don’t you go underestimating Automated Response now.

They shouldn’t touch Terror since it was demonstrably not OP pre-patch.

If they absolutely must tinker, then they ought to reduce Dhuumfire from a 5.2 sec effective burn (yes, 4 sec + 30% dur. = 5.2) to, say, a 3.5 sec effective burn (2.75 + 30% dur. = 3.5). That would make burning damage 67% of what it is now. It would also diminish the effect of cond. dur. runes.

I tried burning and while it’s nice, i prefer other builds. I run a terror/survival builds. I dont go in the spite tree. If they nerf terror, then the update basically NERFED instead of boosting me. That is ridiculous. And i’m not going into spite just to get viable again. If you don’t like it Anet, then nerf dhuumfire duration.

This is the first time in ages I feel comfortable with a profession, but if you nerf this one to the ground, then I don’ think i have the courage to play anymore.

Remember Anet, Necro’s are punished with a LACK OF VIGOR, STABILITY, on weapon heals, etc. Stunlock them and they are dead. I met a few warriors today with the multiple stun combo on their bar (is it shield + hammer, and bull rush?), and they Oblitterated me.

Also remember if you nerf terror damage, then the ‘stability give immunity to fear AND it’s terror damage component’, is starting to be op, remove the immunity to damage then (or even now).

Necros are ‘just ok’ now, perhaps still slightly behind ok. Nothing more, nothing less. If you nerf them, in any way, we are back to square one.

LastDay.3524:

cyst.3108:

yes, cause the target is NOOB AND DOESNT HAVE ANY CLEANSE/STUN BREAKER.. and thats necros fault???

Necros have great Condition removal. Probably the best.
This makes it very hard to estimate how hard it is for other Professions to get rid of them until you’ve played multiple Professions.

For a quick estimate you can look at:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Many Necro builds get Condition removal just by running a good build.
Consume Conditions is the best healing skill for many builds.
Off-hand Dagger and the Staff are great.
All three are found in most Condition and Hybrid builds because they just rock!
(Our defense against Stuns is seriously lacking, though.)

Plague signet isn’t all bad either, having a stunbreak.

Many other Professions need to make pretty hefty sacrifices to get Condition removal.
Imagine if you had to run Shrouded Removal, Fetid Consumption and Well of Power to fight against Conditions.

You couldn’t run one of your current Utility skills because you need Well of Power.
You couldn’t run Greater Marks because you need Shrouded Removal.
You’d need to run 30 Blood Magic and have Minions.

Exaggerated example but… yeah.

yehm and there are other clases like guardian that got a healing signet that removes 1 condition every 10 seconds, + trait removes 1 condition every 10 seconds. Entrer the place change your signet to another heal, wait 4 seconds and put the signet again and VOILAAAAAAAAAAAAA, you get to remove 1 condition every 5 seconds -.-

Im not even going to bother buying gear for my current build until the nerf patch comes in.

I still feel Dhuumfire is inappropriate in the Spite line. I would much rather see something more synergistic with the skills/weapons/stats associated with the line- perhaps bonuses to Vulnerability, Chill, Immobilize or the sort?

For example, you apply vulnerability whenever chilling or immobilizing a foe. And then get some sort of added bonus to vulnerable foes. Be it more damage to, increased crit chance, etc.

cyst.3108:

LastDay.3524:

cyst.3108:

yes, cause the target is NOOB AND DOESNT HAVE ANY CLEANSE/STUN BREAKER.. and thats necros fault???

Necros have great Condition removal. Probably the best.
This makes it very hard to estimate how hard it is for other Professions to get rid of them until you’ve played multiple Professions.

For a quick estimate you can look at:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Condition#Skills_that_remove_conditions

Many Necro builds get Condition removal just by running a good build.
Consume Conditions is the best healing skill for many builds.
Off-hand Dagger and the Staff are great.
All three are found in most Condition and Hybrid builds because they just rock!
(Our defense against Stuns is seriously lacking, though.)

Plague signet isn’t all bad either, having a stunbreak.

Many other Professions need to make pretty hefty sacrifices to get Condition removal.
Imagine if you had to run Shrouded Removal, Fetid Consumption and Well of Power to fight against Conditions.

You couldn’t run one of your current Utility skills because you need Well of Power.
You couldn’t run Greater Marks because you need Shrouded Removal.
You’d need to run 30 Blood Magic and have Minions.

Exaggerated example but… yeah.

yehm and there are other clases like guardian that got a healing signet that removes 1 condition every 10 seconds, + trait removes 1 condition every 10 seconds. Entrer the place change your signet to another heal, wait 4 seconds and put the signet again and VOILAAAAAAAAAAAAA, you get to remove 1 condition every 5 seconds -.-

You can’t change Utility skills in tournaments.
Hotjoins allow it which leads into all sorts of weird stuff, like people swapping into run speed signets to carry the orb in the middle of the match.

With that said Condition removal sure is very unbalanced between Professions.
Some have tons, others have almost none unless they make their entire build into “Look, I remove conditions!”.

Draehl.2681:

I still feel Dhuumfire is inappropriate in the Spite line. I would much rather see something more synergistic with the skills/weapons/stats associated with the line- perhaps bonuses to Vulnerability, Chill, Immobilize or the sort?

For example, you apply vulnerability whenever chilling or immobilizing a foe. And then get some sort of added bonus to vulnerable foes. Be it more damage to, increased crit chance, etc.

Well, the spite line is also the line that give you extra condition duration, and many condimancer, even before the patch, were unsing some point into the spite line for this (i was, and i’m still, runnig a condimancer signet build, with 20/30/20/0/0 before the patch, and i’m now 30/30/10…but without fear, cause i’m not good at using it, and i don’t find it useful for wvw roaming). I think i’ts a good idea to keep an extra condition on crit, and fire works great for extra pressure. I wouldn’t mind changing for tourment, but make it strong (as in 8 or 10 stacks, on crit with 10 sec cd) !

tl;dr, don’t kitten us Anet, other classes need to l2 adapt.