Guild Wars 2

Don’t be taken back by the title its true to what it says and prof will be given in a video. If you are looking for a dps build that can keep up with a warriors look no further as I have played both classes and agree to what the video will show. enjoy.

So I was doing my own calculations for my own Condition damage set, and if I include Dhuumfire, the damage gets to about 50k over 10 seconds. This might sound like a bit of a drop compared to what Nemesis was getting, however I wasn’t using cons during my experiment. This is also in a decent situation. Not the best possible situation and not the worst. But an expected situation. So, although its quite a drop from 60k or 70k as he shows later in the video. Condition damage is nothing to laugh at. Especially considering how much higher a condi necro’s defenses are compared to a Zerker.

The trade off between the two is noticeable. But I feel its worth it for my play style. Conditions may not be as favored in PvE as a power is, however I do enjoy both sets for different reasons. And Conditions do provide something Power can’t.

I was wondering if anyone would bring this particular debate to the forums. Thanks Alaryk! (you are braver than I)

For the record I do believe Nemesis has done an excellent job with this and the follow-up video to simply show that on average DPS Necros are at least on par with Warriors with similar builds.

Note he is not addressing Necromancer’s utility contribution in dungeons, so this should not be a part of the debate concerning this particular video.

I’m sure you’ve seen the amount of controversy this video prompted with some individuals (even certain guilds) who vehemently disagree with this assertion so…well, as Trahearne would say…

“This won’t end well.”

If you want a proof that he still doing biased and inaccurate tests, than this video is good. Otherwise not.
As Wasbunny mentioned, Necromancers utility or the lack of it is the real problem in group content, not their damage output.

It’s an interesting comparison and I respect the work that has gone into making the video.
But let’s be honest here, this test is really not “unquestionable and undisputable”.
The pre-buffed 10 sec sequence for the sake of timing one repeatable damage rotation is hardly a representation of how fights usually go. There’s a much longer build up time for might and vulnerability stacks for necros.

Also, a 6/6/0/2/0 warrior build? GS auto attack for max dps? Yeeeah… no.
Then again, he wasn’t using dagger auto attacks on necro either.

Bottom line: the test showed what most of us knew already. In the right group setting necros have good single target damage when compared to other classes.
As for the “delusional” players who think eles do 100 times more damage, I doubt they’d be convinced otherwise even after watching this video.

There was this old test we used to use back in the days of City of Hero; it is called the “Pylon test”. Basically you pick the toughest and hard-hitting target, bring your best build and see who can kill it the fastest. There was a table of best time on the forums back then. It is a combination of survivability and raw dps: too squishy, you die too soon before making any significant contribution; too tanky, you won’t do enough damage either.

It is a rather reliable test; in that game at least (mind you, in that game you could scale up the levels of the trash mobs quite significantly. So a well balanced between survivability and dps was needed). Perhaps we could do something similar in here too. Bring the best setup of each profession and have them face a similar target and see who can finish it the fastest.

We could modify the test for the best aoe as well: simply drag a fix number of mobs and see which aoe-centric build finish them the fastest.

Nemesis does do the best builds for necromancers in my view, Balanced, self sufficient and usable in most game modes. I use modified version of this DPS build in WvW for roaming and pugging in dugeons and Especially in solo instiance’s they shine. A lot of people forget that he designs his build’s to function on there own so as not to rely on the chance someone nearby may or may not be able to cover him and in that scenario his builds always shine. I always look towards what he will come up with as I know I wont need anyone around me to make sure I can tick

Praise for nemesis Aside 1 thing I will say tho on the DPS and dungeon Issue is that while a necro does do better DPS then a warrior be it the nemesis build or Spoj’s 6,6,0,0,2 or the flash 4,5,0,0,5 thats all a necro really brings to group. DPS and Well of Power if you lack a guardian for group cleansing. That’s the issue and why necromancer’s have trouble getting into organised speed runs or high level fractals DPS can be done by any other class’s while bringing many support options to the table. We used to be wanted for AOE perma-Weakness but after the nerf to weakening shroud there was nothing we could offer that other class’s couldn’t do. That’s the simple fact and until that is fixed we wont end up on organised runs.

ANET could start by lowering the cooldowns on wells, Giving us stability and Buffing Enfeeble (Even 3 seconds of weakness would be workable but 2 is pathetic). Then we would start getting more attention.

On that video there was so much fighting in the comments…and the part 2 is much better, although the fighting and the hate continues…bad idea to bring it to the forums…

Anyway he showed necro dps is similar to warriors, as its supposed to be, and with the strength runes and life blast you can keep high stacks of might on yourself (up to 25), and with death perception your crit chance is over 100%…So necro actually can keep high dps without the party supporting him…

While necros lack party buffs, they bring high vulnerability to the table…That is pretty good for the party dps, WoS and Focus 4 and life blast, you can keep 25-20 vuln stacks for 10-15 secs on a boss on your own (defiance buffs cuts vuln and weakness time in half)

Anyway we are a selfish class, id like a +150 ferocity for party trait:)

Pelopidas.2140:

Anyway we are a selfish class, id like a +150 ferocity for party trait:)

this!

I had hoped i would never have to see this biased abomination of a video again. >.>

To those of you unaware. Most meta players are aware that necro is about equal in DPS when under equal conditions (decent amount of buffs). This video clearly shows bias towards nemesis’s build however. And doesnt do anything but make necro look bad (tests favour necro, poor warrior rotation yet warrior still out dps’s necro). His second video wasnt any better.

I don’t think many is questioning necro’s single target dps. Currently the thing that makes me most jealous is actually phalanx strength.

I droped my condition necro and trained myself in 49 fractal with my zerk warrior….And this video is showing me nothing…

You know an other funny thing? I heard guardian has better dps than warrior! Not also, many classes as far more dps than warrior IF they are fully buffed (25 might, 25 vuln).
I learned that the warrior strenght isn’t it’s damage output, but the number of offensive buff/debuff he can add to the group. In solo situation warrior dps is the best cause he can buff very much by it’s own more than other classes.

And you know what? I think it doesn’t matter at all!!

The only thing important is not the dps, but the cleaving weapon. Stacking here and there makes trash mob killing much faster, and most of the time these parts are harder than boss fights (hammer fractal, anyone?)

Finally, zerk is not an easy build to master. I was used to fight with my condition necro with 600 safe distance. Going melee is much more harder and you have to get used of the boss animations even with all those visual effects that could block your view.

More risk, more reward. And if you can afford it, why turning back to old settings?…. I don’t know.

I really hope that something could change in LS2, and necro is still my favourite class to play (or role play with the game). But after hearing the last stream about balance……I’m not so sure about it.

spoj.9672:

I had hoped i would never have to see this biased abomination of a video again. >.>

To those of you unaware. Most meta players are aware that necro is about equal in DPS when under equal conditions (decent amount of buffs). This video clearly shows bias towards nemesis’s build however. And doesnt do anything but make necro look bad (tests favour necro, poor warrior rotation yet warrior still out dps’s necro). His second video wasnt any better.

Unfortunately, the problem is not the meta players’ view, it’s the community’s.
I don’t know how the meta players influenced it, but currently the community sees necros are useless baggage in dungeons. This is, of course, just what I’ve been seeing in LFG and most likely doesn’t apply for the whole community.

I hope we get some kind of team-buffing trait, like the +150 ferocity mentioned above, or a cleaving weapon, so we can be viewed as a useful profession in dungeons.

Creative. Full Berserker, never heard of it before. Is this a common build people use?
I’m pretty sure it is.

I think people need to stop comparing other professions to Warrior, or for that matter, being so concerned with whether or not they’re doing the ABSOLUTE POSITIVE SUPER BEST DPS EVER. If it gets the job done it gets the job done, you don’t need to be freaking superman. This whole concept does not impress me at all. It just shows me how insecure the community is.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Creative. Full Berserker, never heard of it before. Is this a common build people use?
I’m pretty sure it is.

I think people need to stop comparing other professions to Warrior, or for that matter, being so concerned with whether or not they’re doing the ABSOLUTE POSITIVE SUPER BEST DPS EVER. If it gets the job done it gets the job done, you don’t need to be freaking superman. This whole concept does not impress me at all. It just shows me how insecure the community is.

The reason the “elites” are looking for the absolutely best DPS (and they’re looking for that in team composition, not just professions) is because they’re trying to make speed-run records. In those scenarios, the best possible DPS is very important.

But those elites are also influencing the community (happens in every game, really). If they decide that a class is not really optimal for dungeon speed-runs, many people just assume that class sucks.
If you take the example of League of Legends, you’ll find that it’s extremely common for a champion to rise in popularity because he was used by the team that won a tournament. This is pretty much the same concept.

My necro in full zerker does about half that much damage.

I’m in exotic, he’s in ascended, but still… I cannot see how he’s getting those numbers.

25vuln 25might 25bloodlust sigil of night food/sharpening stone

I’ve done 12.5k life blasts against bloomhunger

I watched the videos myself. They’re not as bad as many people make them out to be. They provide a decent baseline comparison.

In part, Nemesis’ videos aren’t really made for the super elite, premade groups, but for the average or lone player. Because of this, the priorities are different, and what many people criticize his builds for in structure play are actually assets in unstructured play. The l33t hate him for this, but his builds and tactics are far superior to what the random pug runs.

That said, I hear the whole “necros have low DPS” thing all the time. Not on the forums, no, but in map and on the dungeons, people think warriors have maximum damage, and guards/eles are permitted only because of their utility. This leaves many classes (ranger, necro, engineer, thief, mesmer) on the chopping block as far as teams go. Players still can’t get past the idea that no, no class was designed to not do damage.

Blood Red Arachnid.2493:

I watched the videos myself. They’re not as bad as many people make them out to be. They provide a decent baseline comparison.

In part, Nemesis’ videos aren’t really made for the super elite, premade groups, but for the average or lone player. Because of this, the priorities are different, and what many people criticize his builds for in structure play are actually assets in unstructured play. The l33t hate him for this, but his builds and tactics are far superior to what the random pug runs.

That said, I hear the whole “necros have low DPS” thing all the time. Not on the forums, no, but in map and on the dungeons, people think warriors have maximum damage, and guards/eles are permitted only because of their utility. This leaves many classes (ranger, necro, engineer, thief, mesmer) on the chopping block as far as teams go. Players still can’t get past the idea that no, no class was designed to not do damage.

True…
Yesterday i was in SE, another necro joins and a warrior of the party (cause its always 2+) whispers, and i quote : ‘’Not another deathman, we never finish. Kick deathman #2 pls’’

I play lots of dung on my warrior/necro/ranger. Never been kicked as a warrior, kicked 3 times simply cause ranger, even if i play the sw/wh spirit spotter build, kicked more than once cause i was necro and didnt want to switch to warrior. The ’’elitists’’ who criticize this vid so hard, prolly wouldnt kick a ranger or a necro, but the average dumb pugs this vid is made for, wouldnt hesitate, cause wa dps 100b yolo. So its good that someone presents sweet necro dps.

Oh and for casual or PUG runs the build is more effective than the 6/6/x/x/2 dagger/focus or any variation without death perception ( tankier, might to self, vuln uptime, spike with wells and warhorn with 100+% crit chance).

Oh my f’ing god..in the warrior video the undead champ has no vulnerability stacks on it. You can clearly see that.

In the necro video it has a steady 25 stacks..oh my f’ing god…

Yeah. Lets not talk about that little part of it.

Necro’s can do dmg. I own one. they’re great, but the stats chosen on the warrior are not good.

Slashing power has not been chosen. There goes an additional 10% dmg lost right there.

No points into burst mastery. Hence crit dmg remains below 278%.

No furious reaction action. On a champ, it ensures 100% fury uptime.Precision on signets taken. Drop the signet and replace with on my mark for additional 10% dmg.

That alone adds an additional 62K x 20%-=74K+ additional fury uptime and additional increased crit dmg via burst mastery.

Necro is awesome, but the reality is if you stand in front of warrior and do nothing, it will down you faster than a necro. We don’t need deathshroud or lich form to do our dmg. Necro does.

Nice video, but filmsy results.

Ezeriel.9574:

My necro in full zerker does about half that much damage.

I’m in exotic, he’s in ascended, but still… I cannot see how he’s getting those numbers.

Check the vulnerability stacks on the champ in the video. Vulnerability in open world is always the last condition stack on the line. In the warrior video there is none with the occassional 0.5 bleep of it. In the necro video there is 25 stacks of it perma.

The food proc also doesn’t show exactly what grade of food was take. Perhaps you need to buy slightly more expensive food proc’s to help pump up your DPS more.

Don’t feel inadequate if your not getting those numbers. A lot of it has to do with things like empower ally, spotter, banners, foods etc. One video is influenced by these factors more than the other. They show “Best solution” results and not “average expected results.” For the basis of damage no food was needed at all to demonstrate dmg. That alone raises issues with this, even though I do believe he seems fairly honest.

I watched the vid again, there is always 7-25 vulnerability stacks on every fight…give me a time period to see if i missed it.

Actually both videos show average expected results…I think if the warrior used whirlwind in the rotation his dps would be maybe a bit higher. And as melee the warrior must have more dps, as melee you arent supposed to be full glass cannon and having 100% dps uptime.

1st the warrior build is the optimal warrior dps build. Made by others.
2nd he has taken slashing power, dont say bullkitten. And the 2 points in tactics are for the Empowered trait (1% dmg per boon), which provides dmg modifiers, more useful than 100 ferocity. Also in this particular fight you rarely get damaged so furious reaction is bad..+fury flies around from eles/warriors/rangers etc. He also shows that the food taken is 100power/70 ferocity.

Thanks for reminding me that this video exists…My jimmies were rustled and that is quite the achievement.

I can’t be assed to watch the video but given that all I know of Nemesis is that terrible guardian he made, and the fact that I’ve already modeled necromancer DPS several times in the past, and I don’t think I need to watch it to know it sucks.

Anet should just turn Vampiric and Vampiric Thirst into party-buffing auras that operate on a percentage, that’d be an easy fix that would make them good in parties.

Great video, warrior community try to find 1000 excuses for what happen in the video, they don’t want to make an video or maybe they did and they they are too shocked with the results. Wrong rotation? lol how much more dps you’ll get? Still warrior dps don’t suck it’s just on par with necro dps, big deal.

Guys please stop this…. Don’t argue over facts. This whole topic is about calling each other biased and will never end. THIS IS THE INTERNET, MINE OR YOUR OPINION DOESNT MEAN kitten.

For what it’s worth, I skimmed through the video and he’kittenting really crap damage. He spends so much time in Death Shroud spamming Life Blast presumably to build buffs that he’s barely even actually doing a DPS rotation in the video at all. “I can do okay damage for a few seconds if you give me ten seconds to buff up per rotation” isn’t sustained DPS and it’s not even burst DPS.

Dalanor.5387:

If you want a proof that he still doing biased and inaccurate tests, than this video is good. Otherwise not.
As Wasbunny mentioned, Necromancers utility or the lack of it is the real problem in group content, not their damage output.

to be fair => usually that is not the argument people tend to make when they kick you (no matter what class you play at that time). well most times they don’t make any argument at all. they just kick you. but I guess you get the idea.

buff up?? life blast+might+vuln with death perception is a standard dps build, if you were assed to play necro instead of saying bullkitten in the forums maybe you’d know

isnt sustained dps and isnt burst dps. then what is it ?

lol…

The video is biased and got most of everything wrong, as it was pointed out in the comments section. Necromancer single target dps is about equal or 1k-2k less than a 6/6/ GS warrior. Warriors shouldn’t really have melee downtime with whirlwind being on such low cooldown. Necromancers could use a good PVE buff to bring them from last place in desireability in dungeons.

That said, any sort of class mechanic unique to necromancers, be it team lifesiphoning (like the heal skill, except they butchered it with the ridiculous cast time and cooldowns), and its coefficients with power, maybe with the 150+ aoe ferocity trait while in deathshroud or something.

Pelopidas.2140:

buff up?? life blast+might+vuln with death perception is a standard dps build, if you were assed to play necro instead of saying bullkitten in the forums maybe you’d know

isnt sustained dps and isnt burst dps. then what is it ?

lol…

It’s bad DPS. That’s exactly the point. He’kittenting really crap numbers even with all the personal stacking he’s doing on himself. Keep in mind that Life Blast fires REALLY slow and it’s not even 100% uptime. If he wanted to be doing actual DPS comparable to a warrior he needs to be running dagger and using multiple minions and wells. I see neither in this build.

And yes, I know minions suck. That’s also kind of the point.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Pelopidas.2140:

buff up?? life blast+might+vuln with death perception is a standard dps build, if you were assed to play necro instead of saying bullkitten in the forums maybe you’d know

isnt sustained dps and isnt burst dps. then what is it ?

lol…

It’s bad DPS. That’s exactly the point. He’kittenting really crap numbers even with all the personal stacking he’s doing on himself. Keep in mind that Life Blast fires REALLY slow and it’s not even 100% uptime. If he wanted to be doing actual DPS comparable to a warrior he needs to be running dagger and using multiple minions and wells. I see neither in this build.

And yes, I know minions suck. That’s also kind of the point.

ive never seen a necro run more then flesh, does anyone do this, would this kitten los stacking? cause I wanna run my zoo of animals in dungeons, but I dont wanna kitten up stacks for everyone. So if I can run minions without kittening up corner abuse, id love to.

Only dumb pug heroes take warriors for dps and stack 3+ of them. Even if necro can outdps war(no chance vs thrash) that would mean nothing.

I saw his video and the next with calcul explanations.

Ok…..necro DPS is superior to warrior DPS, but under conditions:
1- Boss life < 50%, so half of the battle, your DPS is lowered by 20%
2- The boss have 25 vulnerability stacks
3- He choose strengh runes for necro but scholar runes for warrior. Why?
4- compare warrior vs necro is eventually ok but in 1vs1. when there is a lot a mob, necro<warrior no matter what.
5- More important if we compare in group fight, warrior > necro since warrior will benefits from might stacking (necro don’t since he have already it).

Dice Dragon.4326:

ive never seen a necro run more then flesh, does anyone do this, would this kitten los stacking? cause I wanna run my zoo of animals in dungeons, but I dont wanna kitten up stacks for everyone. So if I can run minions without kittening up corner abuse, id love to.

For absolute max single target dps in a situation where minions dont die you can take a few minions. Blood fiend, shadow fiend, Well of suffering, signet of spite and flesh golem. This is assuming fully buffed though. Otherwise you would want Blood is Power instead of shadow fiend.

I’m lost. Nemesis video is biased because shows necros are too good or that they are rubbish? I heard both takes on that video.
I really don’t get all controversy about that video. It only shows that Necromancer are not as bad, as I originally thought and in some cases can dish out decent amount of damage. People are angry because they thought Wariors are by far superior to Necros or because we can’t say that Necros are terrible all the time?

sAdam.5876:

I’m lost. Nemesis video is biased because shows necros are too good or that they are rubbish? I heard both takes on that video.
I really don’t get all controversy about that video. It only shows that Necromancer are not as bad, as I originally thought and in some cases can dish out decent amount of damage. People are angry because they thought Wariors are by far superior to Necros or because we can’t say that Necros are terrible all the time?

Its biased because he had favourable conditions for the necro and unfavourable conditons for the warrior. Yet he somehow managed to still get better DPS on the warrior. So its biased towards the necro because of the testing methods. But it actually makes necro look bad to more experienced players because of the results.

You should not compare classes when theres a zerg helping you. It completely skewes the results lol. You need to control the variables as much as possible.

@spoj (or whoever else is a PvE-guru here).

Wouldn’t it make more sense to significantly buff the necro’s damage, rather than to introduce some “+ferocity to ally” trait or any other team support of that sort?

Let’s assume the dagger auto attack damage was raised to a point where the necro would by far be the best single target damage class. No buffs required, just straight up more damage than anyone else.
The group support would still be as bad as before, but now people might take necros into dungeons as their best dps-ers in some situations.
Would this be doable? Or would the damage have to be doubled or trippled to make a necro worth occupying a party slot in dungeons?

Well the damage buff would have to be so high that it would beat both ele and thief by a huge margin. And that would be pretty broken.

Its a lot simpler to just give necro more group orientated utility. And better group traits. Even making necro a better self buffer would make them popular as a pug class (might on crit trait would be amazing and would allow necro to compete with warriors forceful gs).

I think our wells could have additional unique effects – similar to how Purging Flames and Hollowed Ground have for Guardians. Enemies inside Well of Blood can take more damage from bleeds and/or other conditions, players inside Well of Suffering may have their damage increased and/or deal damage unmitigated by armor or Protection, players inside Well of Darkness can recieve less damage from attacks and so on.

Pregnantman.8259:

I think our wells could have additional unique effects – similar to how Purging Flames and Hollowed Ground have for Guardians. Enemies inside Well of Blood can take more damage from bleeds and/or other conditions, players inside Well of Suffering may have their damage increased and/or deal damage unmitigated by armor or Protection, players inside Well of Darkness can recieve less damage from attacks and so on.

Wells are fine and barely a replacement for cleaves. The problem is the cooldown. If wells are used but mobs still alive, you are again left with your dagger auto.

Only two of our wells actually damage and can be considered as semi cleave. I am all up for cooldown reduction, but their utility would still be subpar compared with other stuff.

spoj.9672:

Well the damage buff would have to be so high that it would beat both ele and thief by a huge margin. And that would be pretty broken.

Would it really?
Eles bring so much group support and still have the highest damage. It seems to be a fair trade for a class that doesn’t bring any support to have even higher damage.
So when you’re making a team comp for dungeons you’d have to weigh the high necro damage against losing out on ally might stacking etc.

You have to consider how strong ele and thief damage is though. Especially with conjure burst. Necro damage has to be seriously strong to make you sacrifice a utility or buffer class for it or in thief and eles case, a dps class with the ability buff and provide utility. And even then it probably wont be taken most of the time because its still selfish. Not to mention if necro damage gets that high that is serious heading for being overpowered and a massive powercreep in other gametypes. Necro damage is fine as it is. Cleave would be nice. But the main thing is every buff and trait we have is purely selfish.

As it stands the current compositions barely have space for a selfish class like necro. Sacrificing one of the ele’s is the only option in many dungeons and that could mean you lose reliable swiftness or might stacking (depending on which ele build you keep). Sacrificing group might is not an option unless the necro is so far above the other classes that they can out dps everyone without might (which is just op). The only dungeons it would be ok to take a necro on are dungeons where you can stack 3 or more eles.

sAdam.5876:

I’m lost. Nemesis video is biased because shows necros are too good or that they are rubbish? I heard both takes on that video.
I really don’t get all controversy about that video. It only shows that Necromancer are not as bad, as I originally thought and in some cases can dish out decent amount of damage. People are angry because they thought Wariors are by far superior to Necros or because we can’t say that Necros are terrible all the time?

This is what cracks me up so much about this debate.

Both Nemesis and the ‘meta players’ attempted to find out how Necromancer & Warrior DPS compare. Nemesis demonstrated his findings through real-world practice, ‘meta players’ through exhaustive theoretical calculations. Neither side disputes that Necromancers lack utility in group encounters. Here are the results:

Nemesis: Necro DPS is roughly = Warrior DPS. Necromancer DPS is fine as it is.
‘meta players’: Necro DPS is roughly = Warrior DPS. Necromancer DPS is fine as it is.

Both sides arrived at the same conclusion, even when approached from two different directions and yet they both say the other’s methods are hopelessly flawed and biased and thus their conclusions can’t be accurate.

They can’t even agree to disagree since (whether they admit it or not) they actually completely agree, as their results are nearly identical.

Wasbunny.6531:

Both sides arrived at the same conclusion, even when approached from two different directions and yet they both say the other’s methods are hopelessly flawed and biased and thus their conclusions can’t be accurate.

They can’t even agree to disagree since (whether they admit it or not) they actually completely agree, as their results are nearly identical.

Actually, Nemesis’ method was flawed. He didn’t use the best damage build/rotation for both classes and he picked a questionable place/npc to test it.
So you could say he arrived at the same conclusion for the wrong reasons. Also, he tried to disprove people who are saying that ele’s damage is 100 times higher, clearly those are not meta-theory-crafters (or whatever..).

Nemesis skewed the numbers, even with skewed numbers, warrior still won. So imagine a proper warrior trait / build / rotation. That video shot any hope necromancers had in the foot.

Wasbunny.6531:

sAdam.5876:

I’m lost. Nemesis video is biased because shows necros are too good or that they are rubbish? I heard both takes on that video.
I really don’t get all controversy about that video. It only shows that Necromancer are not as bad, as I originally thought and in some cases can dish out decent amount of damage. People are angry because they thought Wariors are by far superior to Necros or because we can’t say that Necros are terrible all the time?

This is what cracks me up so much about this debate.

Both Nemesis and the ‘meta players’ attempted to find out how Necromancer & Warrior DPS compare. Nemesis demonstrated his findings through real-world practice, ‘meta players’ through exhaustive theoretical calculations. Neither side disputes that Necromancers lack utility in group encounters. Here are the results:

Nemesis: Necro DPS is roughly = Warrior DPS. Necromancer DPS is fine as it is.
‘meta players’: Necro DPS is roughly = Warrior DPS. Necromancer DPS is fine as it is.

Both sides arrived at the same conclusion, even when approached from two different directions and yet they both say the other’s methods are hopelessly flawed and biased and thus their conclusions can’t be accurate.

They can’t even agree to disagree since (whether they admit it or not) they actually completely agree, as their results are nearly identical.

Except warrior DPS isn’t even good. Right now warrior is 4th from the bottom in overall DPS, take necro out of the bottom and that makes them tied for 3rd from the bottom.

Right now engineer has the second-highest DPS in the game, applies ridiculous amounts of vuln and might and can apply stealth, reflect, condition removal in liberal quantities and they’re still unpopular in dungeons for various reasons. They aren’t necessarily good reasons, but even if a necro hit as hard as an engineer there still wouldn’t be any reason to take a necro because they can’t even do any of the things I listed above.

Guanglai Kangyi.4318:

Wasbunny.6531:

sAdam.5876:

I’m lost. Nemesis video is biased because shows necros are too good or that they are rubbish? I heard both takes on that video.
I really don’t get all controversy about that video. It only shows that Necromancer are not as bad, as I originally thought and in some cases can dish out decent amount of damage. People are angry because they thought Wariors are by far superior to Necros or because we can’t say that Necros are terrible all the time?

This is what cracks me up so much about this debate.

Both Nemesis and the ‘meta players’ attempted to find out how Necromancer & Warrior DPS compare. Nemesis demonstrated his findings through real-world practice, ‘meta players’ through exhaustive theoretical calculations. Neither side disputes that Necromancers lack utility in group encounters. Here are the results:

Nemesis: Necro DPS is roughly = Warrior DPS. Necromancer DPS is fine as it is.
‘meta players’: Necro DPS is roughly = Warrior DPS. Necromancer DPS is fine as it is.

Both sides arrived at the same conclusion, even when approached from two different directions and yet they both say the other’s methods are hopelessly flawed and biased and thus their conclusions can’t be accurate.

They can’t even agree to disagree since (whether they admit it or not) they actually completely agree, as their results are nearly identical.

Except warrior DPS isn’t even good. Right now warrior is 4th from the bottom in overall DPS, take necro out of the bottom and that makes them tied for 3rd from the bottom.

Right now engineer has the second-highest DPS in the game, applies ridiculous amounts of vuln and might and can apply stealth, reflect, condition removal in liberal quantities and they’re still unpopular in dungeons for various reasons. They aren’t necessarily good reasons, but even if a necro hit as hard as an engineer there still wouldn’t be any reason to take a necro because they can’t even do any of the things I listed above.

I do all of the above on my engi, so why are we not takin again? :C

bla bla bla all i see is people who talk and say: It’s biased. Prove it, make a video and prove Nemesis wrong. You can’t because he’s right or you’re too lazy to make a video? Too bad and shut up. Is the video perfect?No Is the video prove a point?Yes.