Necro epidemic or wells for wvw build.
Wells beat Epidemic in ZvZ anyday.
Wells deal direct guaranteed damage, provide dark combo fields for allies to combo off and inflict some pretty mean conditions themselfs.
Epidemic relies heavily on one target keeping the conditions inflicted on them whilst you channel Epidemic, it also has LoS + range issues and any organized zerg spam water fields on regular basis.
I would only ever use Epidemic over a Well if i was using a chill heavy build.
Rank 580+ Necromancer WvW Stream
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
The negative comments usually pertain to the necro’s solo roaming capabilities. If you’re using it for zergs only then it’s a good choice.
In regards to what Ascii said:
Epidemic cooldown is 15 seconds, wells: 45 or 60. And the potential damage as a condition mancer is higher than 3 wells combined.
If this is about tagging people for bags then wells might indeed be the safer bet.
But you could also just go with both epidemic and wells.
There are different types of fights in WvW and that will inform what is better. If you are rolling with a large size and very organized zerg or guild team, and everyone follows the leader into the enemy zergs, wells are much better.
But in more disorganized affairs, in sieges, or just outside structures, you will often get standoff combat between two large groups, where there is melee, thieves and such probing the no man’s land and then range on either side firing. Basically the groups scared to full engage, whether because of defensive siege, or whatever. In that case, Epidemic is much better because it can push the frontline back from distance, and if you get the other team running, they are likely to get wiped.
In small group affairs, like 5 people, it kind of depends on how you’re group is playing. If you have consistent knockdowns and cc, wells again can be deadly. But if you are kind of fighting a free flowing skirmish, with lots of thieves, and ele’s which frequently roam in small groups, wells might be lucky to hit someone for one tick, then epidemic can wreck more damage.
I switch what I use, but epidemic rarely comes off my bar. Even in zerg type situations, I don’t find it difficult to pick a heavily boon’ed up target, they are all over the place, corrupt him and then spread the conditions. Considering your own team will also have tons of conditions landing on all enemies, you are likely to transfer a painful pile of conditions, including burning and confusion, far better than anything we put on.
People say cleanses ruin epidemic, they can, but in a large clash, it only takes a few seconds for a target to get downed who has a full condition load on them. Sometimes you want to wait about 5 seconds into the initial rush, as then a lot of cleanses have been used up.
In regards to what Ascii said:
Epidemic cooldown is 15 seconds, wells: 45 or 60. And the potential damage as a condition mancer is higher than 3 wells combined.
I would take a 36 second Well of Suffering, one of the hardest hitting utility in the game that’s also a dark field, then Epidemic which can be purified off in seconds.
Rank 580+ Necromancer WvW Stream
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
In regards to what Ascii said:
Epidemic cooldown is 15 seconds, wells: 45 or 60. And the potential damage as a condition mancer is higher than 3 wells combined.I would take a 36 second Well of Suffering, one of the hardest hitting utility in the game that’s also a dark field, then Epidemic which can be purified off in seconds.
Well of Suffering does hit hard indeed but it is easy to dodge or run off.
Note that the damage from the conditions spread by the epidemic is calculated from the user’s condition damage and the duration is transferred thus meaning that power builds that do not have condition damage but condition duration ( the upper most trait line with every profession ), which we can mostly see in WvW, will amplify epidemic’s damage and the best aoe cleanses (shouts) have a cooldown of 20 seconds or above.
Imagine 15secs of burning and poison, few stacks of confusion and 15 stacks of bleeding for 15secs on 5 targets with 2000+ condition damage just from one good epidemic.
The npcs make your life even easier as you can epidemic from them ( lord, guards etc.)
Note also that poison reduces the effects of healing by 33% thus cutting off every third blast finisher into a water field if you want to think it that way.
@DarnDevil IV.2143
Epidemic relies on conditions remaining on enemies for the full duration, it never happens. If you’ve had such an Epidemic then your enemy zerg was just bad, period.
Rank 580+ Necromancer WvW Stream
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
Commander Ascii :: Tempest Wolves [TW] :: Sanctum of Rall :: Best Necromancer NA
Or you could look at it as epidemic forces the enemy to full cleanse 5 people every 12 seconds, which they can’t do with one skill slot, while they can just move out of wells. They both bring different things.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
yeah i run a epidemic necro and its amazing for open field/siege fights. Find a NPC stack all your cond’s on him then epidemic. then find someone else and start stacking cond’s again then turn his boons into cond’s and epidemic again, its pretty hilarious.
AmishDriveby Asura Necro [GH]
@DarnDevil IV.2143
Epidemic relies on conditions remaining on enemies for the full duration, it never happens. If you’ve had such an Epidemic then your enemy zerg was just bad, period.
No it doesn’t rely on the full duration. I can get bleeds to tic for 140 dmg (2000+ condition damage plus few stacks of might), so 20 stack of bleed do 2800 DPS. If the bleeds last even for 3 seconds, that is 8400 damage to single target with just the bleeds. Add in poison and burning and multiply that by 5 for the total damage.
The best way to get a good epidemic of is , as the name says, from a downed person. Why? They have lots of health giving you time to cast it and they cannot cleanse conditions by themselves making them gather a large amount of conditions.
I’d have to agree with the idea that both skills are situational. If you’re generally roaming (solo or in a small-man team), Epidemic’s a lot faster to pull off, and can definately be played for kicks/kills. OTOH, Wells are better for holding choke-points or sieging.
As for myself, I tend to roll with Corrupt Boon/Epidemic. Swap those boys out for BiP/WoS if I know I’m going to do siege/choke coverage.
Malegryne (Sylvari Mesmer), Lannka (Asura Thief) – Ferguson’s Crossing: [PRD/BRB/OMFG]
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
Other 80s: Any but Warrior
There’s something wonderful about that magic moment in a crowd where you actually get Epidemic to hit someone with 25 stacks of bleed with other conditions on too.
SO. MUCH. FUN.
Zestee, Cryptician Zetti, Zissi The Jack, Zi Mao,
Ziffy Snidehide, Zadie Hawkkin, Zannie Oakley, Zuulja
[ODIN],[NaCl] – Tarnished Coast
Ziffy Snidehide, Zadie Hawkkin, Zannie Oakley, Zuulja
[ODIN],[NaCl] – Tarnished Coast
Wells. Epi is fun but too much counterplay. Do yourself a favor and run wells.
Torqky-80 Necro-Blackgate [HB]
I think the bigger issue is considering wells with a condition build…. the condition damage from wells is not notable, even with corruption flipping boons, the effects are short duration. WOS is complete and total garbage in a condition build. If you do run wells, WOP/WOC and WOD are all okay…. but they are more utility at that point than anything, which would work in a power or condition build.
If you run full conditions, run epidemic. Yes its countered hard, yes its hard to land, yes its downright painful to use in ZvZ, but pets don’t always get cleansed, and not every zerg is as coordinated as the next, and in a condition build it is still your best option.
However, in ZvZ or WvW large scale fights, Power/zerker gear, then the use of WOC/WOS is going to get far more mileage as was mentioned. It cannot really be countered other than getting out of the wells, which if use in conjunction with guardian walls, works great…. 2-2.5k per tick…. aoe….
Wells – Zerker – Good
Wells – Rabid – Bad/Situational (Utility wells)
Sometimes, I like to follow the zerg, other times I like to roam in small groups. Would a epidemic conditionmancer serve me better for the flexibility?
Sometimes, I like to follow the zerg, other times I like to roam in small groups. Would a epidemic conditionmancer serve me better for the flexibility?
Epidemic/conditions is okay in a zerg, but it is hard to effectively tag everything and contribute to the zerg as well as you could with full zerker or a power build. I run both in zergs, and just have a harder time feeling useful when every epidemic I try to land fizzles on a dead/just went down or immune player.
Its just easier to drop zerker wells on top of downed players, masses of people. More return for your investment.
I would wonder why you would go so far down into curses. You are really only there for the ground target wells. If you take those 10 points over to blood magic, you can get siphon HP from wells, which is nice. Or you can throw all 30 points from blood into spite for more damage.
I will say that dodge roll MOB is awesome, much like weakening shround, but it is largely useless in WvW, except for cloud dodging, IF you are zergging.
Updated the build, changed to 0/20/20/30/0, took Vampiric Rituals and Vampiric Precision in Blood Magic, and took Reaper’s Precision in Curses instead.
@DarnDevil IV.2143
Epidemic relies on conditions remaining on enemies for the full duration, it never happens. If you’ve had such an Epidemic then your enemy zerg was just bad, period.
I always thought zergs were bunch of bad players trying to achieve something,
Don’t talk to me about toughness and vitality, damage avoidance is all in this game
Not arguing for one over the other, but it’s frankly ridiculous to say that insta cleansing is easier than dodge rolling out of the bad. Everyone keeps talking about how easy it is to counter epidemic, while ignoring that fact.
If you’re not playing to win, don’t complain when you lose.
I think the bigger issue is considering wells with a condition build…. the condition damage from wells is not notable, even with corruption flipping boons, the effects are short duration. WOS is complete and total garbage in a condition build. If you do run wells, WOP/WOC and WOD are all okay…. but they are more utility at that point than anything, which would work in a power or condition build.
If you run full conditions, run epidemic. Yes its countered hard, yes its hard to land, yes its downright painful to use in ZvZ, but pets don’t always get cleansed, and not every zerg is as coordinated as the next, and in a condition build it is still your best option.
However, in ZvZ or WvW large scale fights, Power/zerker gear, then the use of WOC/WOS is going to get far more mileage as was mentioned. It cannot really be countered other than getting out of the wells, which if use in conjunction with guardian walls, works great…. 2-2.5k per tick…. aoe….
Wells – Zerker – Good
Wells – Rabid – Bad/Situational (Utility wells)
I really have to agree with this post, to fully maximize wells, you must lean on the power stats, but if you are a conditionmancer then corruption skills are your best utilities.
With regards to epidemic, I just hope they remove the 1 sec casting animation time.
Vaahlenaz Bloodlich – Charr Necromancer
I like to run up to doors and place wells, then watch the numbers on the other side. :P
Why not use both?
Low quality trolling since launch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch
Seafarer’s Rest EotM grinch
For me I swap out my utilities based on the types of fights I am facing.
Not so long ago I was in T1 before our server started to be vacated and a plummet ensued. I moved to a thriving server again and found myself in T2 but could not bring myself to become a zergling anymore and moved further down the chain to where I can be in different sized groups at my whim and leisure.
The point is that I sometimes find myself roaming solo or in a duo or trio scenario, I get called into moderately sized groups in all directions on the map, and have to participate in grand battles for keeps and defense.
No single build choice covers all of these various roles or automatically syncs with the group dynamics at that point in time. I adjust my utilities to suit the situation and find wells are best used (targeted by the way) well timed in zerg situations, on walls or doors where enemies are hiding, and onto unsuspecting enemies manning siege at the gate or wall.
In smaller situations I use epidemic usually on the enemy least likely to cleanse, or a pet if possible and viable. I find epidemic to be one of those utilities that I have to use wisely and carefully though. When it misses or gets interrupted the fight can drastically change and it is no longer useful while the normal end of fight antics occur.
I strongly agree with Junkpile; use both, and moreover get comfortable with swapping out utilities for the situation ahead, especially if you have been fighting the same group of people again and again, you should start to see their strengths and weaknesses and would be wise to exploit those.