Guild Wars 2

I get that anet wants us to be the class that staying in the fight. Attrition, DS, , CC, siphons, and lack of mobility or a hard disengage all lend themselves to this . I don’t really think we are good enough at attrition, siphons, or CC to do what they envision yet but I still get the concept they are shooting for. My issue lies with the inevitable times when you are outmanned. If all these things worked right I’m fine with the idea being stuck in a fight trying to outlast my opponent 1v1 or maybe even 1v2. But what about in wvw when its 3-4 plus v1 when you hit a group of roamers? Most every other class has a means to get away but based on the theory of the necro HAVING to stay in the fight by design what chance do we have when the odds are simply too great? Necro needs a big escape mobility utility or trait for these situation.

That is why they said they are going to be buffing how to manage staying in the fight. We aren’t going to get more escapes, it isn’t what they want for us.

Bhawb.7408:

That is why they said they are going to be buffing how to manage staying in the fight. We aren’t going to get more escapes, it isn’t what they want for us.

I get that they are looking at better CC, and maybe siphons or DS utility to stay in the fight and help us lock down opponents more, which is good. What concerns me is that they are outright saying we aren’t getting any escapes. There are a lot of times staying in the fight does not help us is what I’m getting at. 1V1 or 1v2 its fine. But when you get jumped by a pack of any more than thakittens over. That a fight I don’t want to stay in. Sure if things are fixed I may be able to outlast 1 or 2 opponents but when its 3+ I want to run away. I see it all the time in wvw when the tide turns on a fight or your with a small group that gets caught by a larger group. The thieves stealth or infiltrators arrow away, eles mist outta there, guardians teleport, mesmers portal or stealth and engineers elixer away. The poor necros and warriors just try to run like crazy and die behind everyone else. I’m really not trying to cry doom and gloom here or anything but its a concern I have with there current theory. In my opinion a smart player knows there’s a time to fight and a time to go regroup and without that option we lose a certain level of strategy. Or what about those who want to use a build that a bit more damage and not so attrition based? Are they just out of luck because its either play attrition or play another class? Unless they plan on making us able to stay in a fight where we are vastly outnumbered, which is ok with me too =)

You are talking about current mechanics not helping us. You have no idea (as well as I) what staying in the fight will mean post-buffs. We already have mechanics that greatly favor us staying in fights (LF generation and life stealing). We don’t need mobility to be able to fight. Want to do more damage? Guess what, you’ll need to play smarter since you will have less sustain.

As for escaping, only one class is guaranteed an escape from any situation that they react with any reasonable speed to; thief. Any other class is still very capable of being caught and killed, we just happen to be one of the easiest. You aren’t going to get any extra mechanics. It sucks, but you just need to learn how to play around it, because it doesn’t fit into our class “theme”.

One thing u can do is place a flesh wurn somewhere on the map when u enter WvW and hope that the enemy group is not coming from that direction or that there isnt a cliff or other obstruction in that direction.

This way when u see them u can use the teleport (which no matter where u are will try to port u to that direction) and with some luck and a speed boost (swiftness or signet of the locust) u can create some distance and hope that they dont want to chase you.

Its much inferior to what other classes but u have to make do with what u have i guess and i dont see it changing anytime soon.

Also dont forget that jumping of a high cliff is the best escape move necros have in WvW…

Necro design is a bit oxymoronic if you think about it. They want us to have sustain and attrition but not to have any of the mechanics in the game that provide sustain.

No ready access to boons such as Protection, Vigor, Aegis, Stability, etc. No strong mobility or escapes. These are the things that create sustain in this game!

More and more health cannot alone be sustain because it does not scale with multiple opponents, lest it become overpowered vs 1 opponent. A giant health pool that doesn’t refill fast is also finite, that is not sustain. There is no skill based recovery possible when its gone, you are just dead due to lacking the common above mechanics other classes use to reset and recharge during a long fight.

The only obvious mechanic we can and do have is life steal and its weak at the moment, and doesn’t work while we are in death shroud, our actual supposed sustain mechanic. The class is just a mumbo jumbo of ideas and incongruent concepts that doesn’t really fit well together unfortunately. Further confusion in our trait trees highlight this. For example +healing is in the same line as our life steal traits, but does nothing for them…

Is it fixable? Probably yes, but they seem to be struggling mightily with it. Our fat health pools make them fear giving us any kind of sustain that actually comes close to maintaining even health with incoming damage (d/d ele at the peak of their power) because then we might become this juggernaut of pressure, that by the time you take out, your team is decimated.

Whatever they have planned I really hope its changes things a lot. Scaling siphons or a big change to DS mechanics. Your right though I am referring to the current abilities which let us get locked down and don’t give us the means to be effective. Still like pendragon eludes to, they don’t want to give us more boons and more hp really has little effect on anything, so how they can make us that much more sustainable is beyond me. Either way I play condi/attrition so any change is beneficial to me.

Well, as a Necro, i don’t have any issues when it come to stay in a fight (untill I drop dead ). My major issues is to force my foe to stay in to. Most of the other classes are a pain to root/chill/cripple and being forced to use a trait (Again with the “I must have this trait”) to cope with our evade/mobility/invulnerability issue is a pain.

Don’t get me wrong, I love DS. I think it’s a wonderfull mechanism but most of the trait that’s related to DS feel “nerfed”. CD on “on use DS skill”, short boon duration… etc. There are a lot of way to improve Necromancer and maybe some will be done. I’m used to wait, so I’ll wait ^^.

Let us all admit it, non of the Dev’s favor necro or plays it since most are solely focussed on thief or warrior.
I remember ppl asking what their favorite profession is, all answered thief.
Iow. We have children designing the game ^^

DS is useless btw, If i am out of DS i can endure spikes continuously. but when i trow on DS it just takes 1 spike to drain it. So when activating i lose 1 second, spiked i lose 1 second, then i have 1-2 seconds where my utilities are greyed out and i can’t do anything meaning death.

So using Ds on averaga costs me 4 seconds, about 12k+ hp & the fight if im facing a good burst build.

iow, another useless mechanism, now, if they made DS double your toughness it might be a good mechanism, otherwise its only use is finishing someone who is downed and fear.. oh and fear on a necro is… a waste, since there are more viable professions out there.

My main problem with Attrition is staying alive outside of the fight. Silly as it seems, it can be a big problem when you’re trying to run through a dungeon.

If you look at most of our “attrition” abilities, most of them require a target to be hit. Life-siphoning has to hit, Condition transfers have to hit, and most of our good but few boons have to hit a target to take affect. I mean, without all that, I feel as though the only thing I have to survive is to hide in DS or use my heal, which is on a 25 sec CD making it inefficient.

If they’re gonna buff our ability to survive, I hope they do it for all aspects of the game.

Lucas.9162:

My main problem with Attrition is staying alive outside of the fight. Silly as it seems, it can be a big problem when you’re trying to run through a dungeon.

If you look at most of our “attrition” abilities, most of them require a target to be hit. Life-siphoning has to hit, Condition transfers have to hit, and most of our good but few boons have to hit a target to take affect. I mean, without all that, I feel as though the only thing I have to survive is to hide in DS or use my heal, which is on a 25 sec CD making it inefficient.

If they’re gonna buff our ability to survive, I hope they do it for all aspects of the game.

I agree and I’ve mentioned this before.
It’s very annoying when trying to skip mobs in Arah.
On the bright side Plague is really darn good for skipping.
Just kind of dumb to have to use an Elite for it.

In actual PvP combat Necro shines as support, stripping Boons off an annoying Ele or Guardian makes it much easier for Professions with high damage to kill them.
Cripples and Chill aren’t often THAT useful to you, but they help your team’s faster Professions to catch up foes very easily.
Chilled targets are usually much easier to backstab as a Thief.

Signet of Undeath is obviously almost worthless 1vs1, but very good in team fights.
Same goes for Epidemic.
In both cases you ideally want to stand in some high position that isn’t easy to reach.
People rarely look up, be it games or real life.

I think what really needs work is Life Force generation.
If Necros had tons of this they might be OK even without Stability.
It’s just a tricky thing to tweak as it could easily get out of hand and make Necromancers completely unstoppable when stacking lots of it.

Unfortunately WvW is just plain unbalanced.
PvP is balanced around sPvP’s Conquest, which is completely different from WvW.
…So I have a Thief for roaming.
My Necro is usually the one getting all the lootbags in Zergs, though!

It’s not just Necro who’s situational, though.
Did you know that all those dreaded Mesmers that are absolute terrors in 1vs1 are actually awful in zergs?
The AoE wipes out Illusions and Phantasms, just like Necro Minions melt there.

Thieves aren’t big fans of the AoE spam either, I can tell from experience.

There’s actually one thing where I wouldn’t mind a nerf on Necro’s survivability!
The Life Force from deaths can be quite insane under the right circumstances, much how GW1 Necros could have infinite Energy from mass deaths.

Jumping from 0% to 100% Life Force in under 5 seconds doesn’t feel right any more than the insanely slow speed it fills in 1vs1.

LastDay.3524:

Jumping from 0% to 100% Life Force in under 5 seconds doesn’t feel right any more than the insanely slow speed it fills in 1vs1.

Gotta disagree there lol. One good zerg fight and you’re set for smaller skirmishes. That LF bar drains fast if you get caught in the cross fire of those zergs, it’s only fitting that it fills up just as fast if you’re cautious.

That and the bags from awesome epidemics and the AE spam that we have is really the only good thing we have going for us right now.

Yes. Necromancers have to stay in a fight and face tank with not being able to equip heavy armor. Don’t get me wrong. We have a decent amount of health and toughness, but when it comes down to tanking, even with fully traited soul reaping and everything skilled to shroud sustain, we fall behind. We are chosen to facetank everything and having no escape what so ever. While any other class has some form of easy escape (Ride the lighting, Mass Invisibility, Cloak thief, spin to win, save yourselves and so on), we get spectral walk, which is nice, but it does basically nothing that you couldn’t do without. It takes an insane amount of knowledge of the terrain, and preparation to get out of anything with spectral walk. We have no easy access to stability (Foot in the Grave is a joke. 3 seconds is not enough to even justify traiting it, except in spvp and tpvp for stomps).

Anet does not play necromancer, it seems. We have to facetank everything with nothing. Shroud just lacks any useful tanking skill (life blast? Nice. That will safe me against the chickens over there, but not help me disengage.).

If you want to disengage, try using Dark Path on the chickens over there. People always forget about that skill in PvP/WvW.

I just wish they would make Dark Path more responsive.

Necromancer is architecturally sound. All of the mechanics and synergy is there. Hence why one could almost choose more trait setups than any other class and perform decently well at a basic level. Necromancers are amazing at the low end of the scale.

In my opinion, the problem with Necromancer right now is the scaling of certain mechanics at the high end of the scale. Things like Life Siphon and Sustainability through Deathshroud need to increase. Naturally our Attrition based fighting style will be more viable in turn.

Access to disengage, boons, and mobility is not what Necromancer is all about.

Okay guys, here we go…. The real problem is your gameplay. As a necro i have no problem at all to stay alive, even versus 2player ( except 2dps ). In WvW it is just brutal… These mark are just awesome and that 1200range (L). In PvE, quite easy i can even solo some dungeon explorer…

So hey, instead of complaining on how necro need to be up, why dont you think about a good build and start learning the class for real ?

Towelie.4637:

Okay guys, here we go…. The real problem is your gameplay. As a necro i have no problem at all to stay alive, even versus 2player ( except 2dps ). In WvW it is just brutal… These mark are just awesome and that 1200range (L). In PvE, quite easy i can even solo some dungeon explorer…

So hey, instead of complaining on how necro need to be up, why dont you think about a good build and start learning the class for real ?

Wow. Now that one really is the chosen one! Every other necromancer is just bad.
Now putting aside that you just picked to portrait yourself as “The Best Necromancer” around here, it is still not true what you are saying. Granted, we can do some dungeons solo on explorer, but other classes can do that too, and that is not the purpose of the necromancer. Any decent 1v2 will not be favorable for a necromancer. If people stick together and choose to get hit by each and every mark, well… face roll. But as soon as they tend to stand apart our damage output just falls of. One missed epidemic, one mark wrongly placed, and even versus not so good players you are deep in for a joy ride. You can’t run, and you can’t hide.

Now for the others, who want a discussion, yes. We need a godkitten way to sustain the shroud without the “spectral” skills, which are, well… not so great, from an offensive stand point. I just don’t know what else to say. Shroud is supposed to be a refuge while you writtle them down with conditions, but it fails in that perspective horribly. If you choose to go for 30 in soul reaping, that makes your shroud more viable, but also takes away much of your offensive damage. If you don’t do that, the shroud just is a way to put more conditions on your enemy and then drop out of it again.

Necromancer is architecturally sound. All of the mechanics and synergy is there. Hence why one could almost choose more trait setups than any other class and perform decently well at a basic level. Necromancers are amazing at the low end of the scale.
In my opinion, the problem with Necromancer right now is the scaling of certain mechanics at the high end of the scale. Things like Life Siphon and Sustainability through Deathshroud need to increase. Naturally our Attrition based fighting style will be more viable in turn.
Access to disengage, boons, and mobility is not what Necromancer is all about.

Yes. That is our real problem. We can do anything, and we do it decently. But we have no “The One” build like other classes do. All mechanics synergize somewhere. The things I wish for are, either a way to disengage, or a fix to our broken mechanics. Life Siphon is just attrociously useless. On either end of the scale. It’s not enough to be worth the trait points. More sustain to shroud and/or siphon (which would actually make the dagger useable ^^), would be nice. But first things first. Thieves need a buff. And eles need a fix.

First instead of epidemic why dont you use corrupt boon ? Now did i says i’m the best necro, no… But i seem to be the only one who’s not complaining for nothing because the class is well set.

‘’Shroud is supposed to be a refuge while you writtle them down with conditions’’ So we cant just use it to gain some boon and wait for our heal ? or maybe for the instant fear to counter a heal/revive ? Now i see why you think necro is bad… I start understanding…

Towelie.4637:

First instead of epidemic why dont you use corrupt boon ? Now did i says i’m the best necro, no… But i seem to be the only one who’s not complaining for nothing because the class is well set.

‘’Shroud is supposed to be a refuge while you writtle them down with conditions’’ So we cant just use it to gain some boon and wait for our heal ? or maybe for the instant fear to counter a heal/revive ? Now i see why you think necro is bad… I start understanding…

I hope you are trolling, if not then you need to get out and play some pvp against opponents who are not braindead.

Necros are just so mediocre right now, we do nothing the best and are not quite good enough to be the all-rounder. Really since they have stated we wont get boons or disengage mechanics they need to make Siphon probably 4 or 5x more hp AND give us some passive death shroud regen that will be INCREASED by deaths or skills and not 100% from deaths or skills.

Also, why cant we start with like 25-50% LF in sPvP. You have to attrition in your first fight and yet with no death shroud its pretty f’ing hard to do.

‘’Also, why cant we start with like 25-50% LF in sPvP. You have to attrition in your first fight and yet with no death shroud its pretty f’ing hard to do.’’

Yes, i agree on that because on 1v1 if you dont have an axe you will be having issues to fill the bar.

No we do nothing better than any class except dealing with condition/boon… But it op enough no ? Base on the fact that if you dont apply boon on yourself, you probably apply condition on enemy (Even full domage thief apply condition), and the necro deal easy with both of them.

And now the best part with necro, we cant be the best in anything, but we do everything at the SAME TIME so great. And by the way i get almost 800heal per seconde, how many is enough for you ?

First instead of epidemic why dont you use corrupt boon ? Now did i says i’m the best necro, no… But i seem to be the only one who’s not complaining for nothing because the class is well set.
‘’Shroud is supposed to be a refuge while you writtle them down with conditions’’ So we cant just use it to gain some boon and wait for our heal ? or maybe for the instant fear to counter a heal/revive ? Now i see why you think necro is bad… I start understanding…

What? Wait. I… Wat? First off, why don’t you run 3 skills and have one of them be epidemic and another corrupt boon? Since corruption is about the best way to play a condition mancer (powermancer aside), you should run atleast corrupt boon and epidemic.

’Shroud is supposed to be a refuge while you writtle them down with conditions’’ So we cant just use it to gain some boon and wait for our heal ?

Which one? The 3 second stability, which you just blew by needing it to stomp someone, or the 3 seconds retaliation? Compared to how fast your shroud is depleted under fire, and how long it takes for us to get our heal up (I think 25 seconds is about the lowest you will get, blood fiend aside.), this is ages.

or maybe for the instant fear to counter a heal/revive ?

You mean the classes which have access to 20 second stability? Or do you mean the cloaked thief that you can’t target? Maybe the ranger, who doesn’t give a flying dolyak, because his pet is already grinding you? I don’t get where you are heading, because neither of these tactics is really viable. You fear someone away, they run for AT MOST 4 seconds, if you have put everything into fear, and then? You stand there and wait for your heal to come up, while he revives his allies. Good job.
It really seems that you are the best necromancer around here, because you make miracles work.

Now i see why you think necro is bad… I start understanding…

Wow. You are full of yourself, aren’t you…

I hope you are trolling, if not then you need to get out and play some pvp against opponents who are not braindead.

I hope so too. It hurts reading this.

Necros are just so mediocre right now, we do nothing the best and are not quite good enough to be the all-rounder. Really since they have stated we wont get boons or disengage mechanics they need to make Siphon probably 4 or 5x more hp AND give us some passive death shroud regen that will be INCREASED by deaths or skills and not 100% from deaths or skills.

Well… we are the best at being mediocre in every aspect. Maybe we are just too well rounded. Increasing one thing might make us op again :P We have the passive reg. Signet of Undead. But it’s 1%, and that is not enough to justify it being in my hotbar ^^

Also, why cant we start with like 25-50% LF in sPvP. You have to attrition in your first fight and yet with no death shroud its pretty f’ing hard to do.

That is a completely different story. We are the only class, that does not get to use it’s class mechanic in spvp from the start. I would love that being changed. Atleast 25%. PLEASE. GIVE ME JUST ONE FEAR. PLEASE.

’Also, why cant we start with like 25-50% LF in sPvP. You have to attrition in your first fight and yet with no death shroud its pretty f’ing hard to do.’’
Yes, i agree on that because on 1v1 if you dont have an axe you will be having issues to fill the bar.
No we do nothing better than any class except dealing with condition/boon… But it op enough no ? Base on the fact that if you dont apply boon on yourself, you probably apply condition on enemy (Even full domage thief apply condition), and the necro deal easy with both of them.
And now the best part with necro, we cant be the best in anything, but we do everything at the SAME TIME so great. And by the way i get almost 800heal per seconde, how many is enough for you ?

Aside that you are wrong about the axe thing, because, well… Soul marks and stuff, 800 heal per second? Please post your build. I would LOVE to see how you do it.

corrupt boon to kill the bunker, or the hard boon buffer
plague signet to break stun and instant clear condition
signet of locust to reach your opponent faster, cap faster, and steal alot of heal in gangbang.
Flesh golem for stun and good damage support
Now you say that stability ? yeah that kinda why you got corupt boon, or if i got time to cast spinal shivers well it better ( but long cast time )

‘’Maybe the ranger, who doesn’t give a flying dolyak, because his pet is already grinding you’’
If you cant fear/stun the ranger because of his pet attacking you… Well no comment on that… For the thief if he shadow refuge your screw like every other class… Otherwise you just fear im away.

Any question ?

‘’Aside that you are wrong about the axe thing, because, well… Soul marks and stuff, 800 heal per second? Please post your build. I would LOVE to see how you do it.’’
Im not playing with axe? maybe dagger and something else ? i was just saying that necro who wear an axe fill their death pool fast with the good trait to help

Bhawb.7408:

That is why they said they are going to be buffing how to manage staying in the fight. We aren’t going to get more escapes, it isn’t what they want for us.

This severely limits the class, it’s potential builds, potential roles, and, as a consequence, makes the class a shallow one to play.

You couldn’t pay me enough gold to roam as a Necro instead of my Thief.

Creating more viable choices creates depth in a competitive game – something I am beginning to suspect Anet are not moving towards.

Towelie.4637:

corrupt boon to kill the bunker, or the hard boon buffer
plague signet to break stun and instant clear condition
signet of locust to reach your opponent faster, cap faster, and steal alot of heal in gangbang.
Flesh golem for stun and good damage support
Now you say that stability ? yeah that kinda why you got corupt boon, or if i got time to cast spinal shivers well it better ( but long cast time )

‘’Maybe the ranger, who doesn’t give a flying dolyak, because his pet is already grinding you’’
If you cant fear/stun the ranger because of his pet attacking you… Well no comment on that… For the thief if he shadow refuge your screw like every other class… Otherwise you just fear im away.

Any question ?

‘’Aside that you are wrong about the axe thing, because, well… Soul marks and stuff, 800 heal per second? Please post your build. I would LOVE to see how you do it.’’
Im not playing with axe? maybe dagger and something else ? i was just saying that necro who wear an axe fill their death pool fast with the good trait to help

Wow. Seriously? First off, please use this and show me your build. I am genuinely interested in your “great” build. http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/necromancer/

Second. Signet of Locust. Are you kittenting me? Off hand warhorn is much more effective at this. Plus it has a daze.
Third. Plague signet? 40 second cool down on a stun breaker? Glorious. Please elaborate on how you exactly run away from guardian & elementalist.

Fourth, it seems that you still assume, that you are the better necromancer. I beg to differ. Corrupt boon on a bunkering guardian with clarity of voice is just useless. Also, stability is the last boon to be removed by spinal shivers. If your enemy has more than 3 boons, well, good luck there.

And yes. You fear the thief away. And after 4 seconds you eat the next 4 heartseekers, until your shroud is depleted. Good job man. What server, by the way, are you playing on? I should transfer there and have fun in pvp.

I’m in Fort Aspenwood feel free to come someday and we will fight.

‘’Second. Signet of Locust. Are you kittenting me? Off hand warhorn is much more effective at this. Plus it has a daze.’’
Did i just saw you compare signet of locust to some weapon skill? Dont do that again babe… It aint the same… If i use this incredible warhorn, how i will get my regeneration boon when im not on my staff ?

Dont forget spinal chill for 6sec too with your staff, spinal and your death shroud you put an endless chill, or one at the time if you think he will remove it…

Okay yeah thief are annoying when you try to finish someone but there not only the necro who got an hard time on that, i dont see why you complain… It just normal.

If you use your boon remover right (and if there no bug issue), even the guardian gonna cry.

By the six gods. We got a kitten over here.

Belitteling me will not help your case. Signet of Locust is a joke of a signet. Spinal shivers is fine as it is. But nothing compared to well of suffering. I don’t think I have to elaborate any further on what’s wrong with your build. It’s pretty clear to see.

Towelie.4637:

Yes, i agree on that because on 1v1 if you dont have an axe you will be having issues to fill the bar.?

So you’re telling us it’s troublesome to accumulate life force unless you use Ghastly Claws… which gives you 8% lf… on an 8 second cooldown.
Awesome, I just need 100 seconds to get a full lf bar xD

Towelie.4637:

And by the way i get almost 800heal per seconde, how many is enough for you ?

Kewl, by the time Consume Conditions recharges for a 5k heal you have already gained 20k hp by some other means… that would indeed be nice, if it wasn’t a fantasy.
Or were you talking about your elementalist? :P

Towelie.4637:

For the thief if he shadow refuge your screw like every other class… Otherwise you just fear im away.

Any question ?

Yes. Have you ever played against a thief other than the training npc in the mists?
How is Shadow Refuge the one thief skill that screws you or any other class?

On topic:

displacedTitan.6897:

Really since they have stated we wont get boons or disengage mechanics they need to make Siphon probably 4 or 5x more hp

If necros want to maintain their viability of many build, I don’t think it’s wise to put all our hopes in improved siphoning.
I’m glad that Anet will buff it, but if this turns out to be so powerful that you can tank multiple enemies without stability/vigor/etc then every necro would not only be pigeonholed into the Blood Magic line, but we’d be totally overpowered in 1v1s.

Imo the sustain should be irrelevant to a certain traitline and be connected to something that every build has access to. Like Death Shroud (→buff lf regen)
But more improtantly: it should scale with the amout of opponents you’re facing, like the active part of the Signet of the Locust.

So how about every standard #6 heal skill gets and added heal bonus similar to the Locust signet?
Let’s say 5k heal for Consume Conditions + 500 for every target in a 480 radius.. or something like that…

I feel that the damage that necromancers do is really nice, at least when I’m playing conditionmancer. The only thing I would change for a power mancer is to lower the base cooldowns of wells by 10 or 15 seconds and let the Life Blast have it’s full damage even when below 50%LF

It seems to me that the hardest thing about the necro for ANet is to balance the profession in the way they want to do it. As many of us know, they are not going to really buff our mobility and boons, so it just leaves them with the option to adjust DS mechanics and siphoning. This is a really hard path to go as it is EXTREMELY difficult to balance it for 1v1, 5v5 and XvX (zerg play) at the same time. If they really can pull this off, I will respect the developing team a lot.

TainoFuerte.8136:

This severely limits the class, it’s potential builds, potential roles, and, as a consequence, makes the class a shallow one to play.

You couldn’t pay me enough gold to roam as a Necro instead of my Thief.

Creating more viable choices creates depth in a competitive game – something I am beginning to suspect Anet are not moving towards.

Every single class has its own unique way to accomplish things. Staying in the fight and gaining power as we debilitate our enemies is our unique way to accomplish things. If you are not okay with the idea of being a high sustain, stay in the fight class, then this will not be the class for you. And yes, you should roam on your thief, it is literally built around the core mechanics of roaming.

‘’Kewl, by the time Consume Conditions recharges for a 5k heal you have already gained 20k hp by some other means…’’
Are you saying that… you gain 5k with consume condition? is that mean you use it without any condition on you? Man it broke my heart to hear that.

Shadow refuge is the screw you up skill because he can stealth himself and the downed ally so it an easy revive ? And if the thief down in his shadow refuge, the stealth is long enough so he can teleport away and heal himself without any problem..

Towelie.4637:

‘’Kewl, by the time Consume Conditions recharges for a 5k heal you have already gained 20k hp by some other means…’’
Are you saying that… you gain 5k with consume condition? is that mean you use it without any condition on you? Man it broke my heart to hear that.

Shadow refuge is the screw you up skill because he can stealth himself and the downed ally so it an easy revive ? And if the thief down in his shadow refuge, the stealth is long enough so he can teleport away and heal himself without any problem..

…. Reaper’s Mark? I mean. Really. And if he is down, good luck, auto attack or put a well there.

and the Consume conditions both has a 1 to 1 healing ratio + conditions you have could be anything. He is oversimplifying because going into detail would mean he would have to provide an example of stats. (yes, some people do run vampiric, so they do have 150 healing power atleast) I understand you two are fighting like kittens in a corner, but he is still right on how much Consume conditions normally heals for. The other stuff is still considered ‘situational’.

Please. We need to stop feeding the troll. It has reached a level of absurdity that is beyond comprehension. We reached the point where he cherry picks simplifications. That’s the line. Atleast I won’t go any further in this discussion.

Towelie.4637:

Are you saying that… you gain 5k with consume condition? is that mean you use it without any condition on you? Man it broke my heart to hear that.

The base heal is 5240, with 724 for each condition, and 1:1 for healing power added to each.
Still, even if you’re lucky and happen to squeeze out a 10k heal every 25 seconds… how is that anywhere near your 800hp per second?

Towelie.4637:

Shadow refuge is the screw you up skill because he can stealth himself and the downed ally so it an easy revive ?

At least you know where he is.
There are so many untargeted skills that necros (and other classes) can use on the Shadow Refuge. And if you know he tries to revive someone, you can drop Reaper’s Mark.
It’s really not the most devastating skill in the thief’s arsenal.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you want to disengage, try using Dark Path on the chickens over there. People always forget about that skill in PvP/WvW.

People write this a lot but always seems more clever in word than deed.

The cast time of Dark Path is long for a disengage, and the slow travel time makes it longer still. Not exactly like popping mist form or blink to get out of a dire situation where you need to act instantly or either be dead or nearly so.

Pendragon.8735:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

If you want to disengage, try using Dark Path on the chickens over there. People always forget about that skill in PvP/WvW.

People write this a lot but always seems more clever in word than deed.

The cast time of Dark Path is long for a disengage, and the slow travel time makes it longer still. Not exactly like popping mist form or blink to get out of a dire situation where you need to act instantly or either be dead or nearly so.

Oh, I won’t pretend it’s a fantastic disengage, but it’s best to throw it off in a different direction than you start running. Your enemy will usually chase you, opening the distance when you do port.

Sometimes it gets you out, sometimes it doesn’t (especially if those blasted thieves are involved in chasing you). Still a skill that most people don’t anticipate, and every necro has it.

Pats Tow-e-lie Lame troll aside:

Dev’s did say they re-doing our DShroud to deal with damage, even in WvW where it’s not 1v1 or 1v2.
They did LoL hard & say our Siphon is totally useless.
Someone said it’s annoying to heal a necro as they are usually wasted if they use DShroud to mitigate damage. Hopefully the dev’s don’t fix this by not allowing any heals to work on a necro & then fix’ing that by updating tooltips to say (Excluding Necro’s)

Anyways, dev’s did seem to be working on fixing up the issue’s raised here.
Others I’d also very much liked looked at;

1/3rd Downed life!

Some more combo finisher’s. (1 per weap type, or even a fast CD 7-9 Skill, or DShroud, or more than the 20% chance with staff for most builds)

Projectiles being fixed so we can brake roots, and not shoot over objects (like in WvW)

Cleave on Dagger #1.

Here’s one solution: have life force regenerate automatically, with faster rate the more uneven the odds (count the number of friends vs foes in the area). This way, in an uneven fight, we can survive longer (still little hope of escape, but maybe a chance to win), but in an even fight, there’s no unfair advantage for us.

Don’t interrupt when the necromancer forum is having one of its traditional ‘great wailing and gnashing of teeth’ threads please Towelie.

Enferian.2705:

One thing u can do is place a flesh wurn somewhere on the map when u enter WvW and hope that the enemy group is not coming from that direction or that there isnt a cliff or other obstruction in that direction.

This way when u see them u can use the teleport (which no matter where u are will try to port u to that direction) and with some luck and a speed boost (swiftness or signet of the locust) u can create some distance and hope that they dont want to chase you.

Its much inferior to what other classes but u have to make do with what u have i guess and i dont see it changing anytime soon.

Also dont forget that jumping of a high cliff is the best escape move necros have in WvW…

I once Spectral Walked away from a huge mob trying to kill me. It actually worked!