Guild Wars 2

Akrasia.5469:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Akrasia.5469:

We are not best at DPS, We are not best at bunkering, we are not best at boon removal,

I have to nitpick, but Necros are very, very much the best boon removal in the game right now. Mallyx Revenants are second with Mesmers third, but Necros are a level above all other professions on that front.

Necros are the best at boon corruption. This is where they excel in fact, but Mesmers have way more access to boon removal and can steal boons. So in terms of effectiveness this one is debatable. But in shear numbers of boons that can be removed Mesemers have the crown

Okay, time to rip this apart.

1. Of course Necros are best at “boon corruption.” They are literally the only profession that can do it! By definition, they are the best. And worst.

2. “Boon corruption” is still “boon removal.” Let’s compare mesmer boon removal and Necro boon removal, shall we?

• Mesmer Sword auto vs. necro Scepter auto. Both are auto attacks. Necro Scepter has superior reliability, being 900 range opposed to 130, but Mesmers can supplement it in PvE with clones. I say “in PvE” because in WvW and PvP, the clones die before they can complete the chain for a boon strip.
• Mind Stab: vs. Unholy Feast. Ignoring the fact that Unholy Feast is on a bad weapon, we have two 5 target AoE boon strips (1 boon each) on an identical cooldown. Probably the best comparison you can get. Unholy Feast, though, is much easier to land on multiple foes due to being a much, much larger AoE.

That’s it for weapon skills on Mesmer, but Necros still have Dark Pact, Enfeebling Blood, and Spinal Shivers to go. Advantage: necro.

Utility skills:

• Null Field vs. Well of Corruption. Both are identical radius, and pulsing boon removal. Despite the basic description for Null Field, it only strips 1 boon/pulse. So, it matches on boon removal. Null Field does enjoy longer range and a shorter untraited cooldown. When both skills are traited, the cooldowns are identical, but Null Field lasts longer. Null Field overall wins out on this one.
• Arcane Thievery vs. Corrupt Boon. This is not even close. 3 boons removed either way, but Corrupt Boon being available three times as often when untraited means Corrupt Boon blows Arcane Thievery out of the water without even trying on boon removal.
• Phantasmal Disenchanter vs. Nothing Can Save You. This one is weird, but these are the only utilities left on each profession to compare. Overall, NCSY works out to be better on the boon removal front. More boons removed instantly and provides unblockability while not being able to just be killed. The Disenchanter prioritizes allies on its bounces, making its boon removal quite poor.

Okay, that wraps it up, right? Well, traits.

• Shattered Concentration vs. Path of Corruption. I picked these two to compare because both modify profession mechanic skills. Each one has its benefits, Path of Corruption being more reliable while Shattered Concentration works better for spike boon removal (when it lands more than two illusions, which is rare in PvP/WvW).

Okay, that’s it…wait. Necro still has:
Chill of Death
Signets of Suffering (which means the entire right side of the bar sans elite can rip boons)
Spiteful Spirit
Weakening Shroud
Grim Specter (a total boon rip, albeit only in Lich Form).

And unlike Mesmer, multiples of these can be used in a typical build.

So no. Necros are the kings of boon removal, both in practical and theoretical situations. Revenants are second in practice, but third in theoretical. Mesmers are second in theoretical, but third in practice.

Akrasia.5469:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Akrasia.5469:

We are not best at DPS, We are not best at bunkering, we are not best at boon removal,

I have to nitpick, but Necros are very, very much the best boon removal in the game right now. Mallyx Revenants are second with Mesmers third, but Necros are a level above all other professions on that front.

Necros are the best at boon corruption. This is where they excel in fact, but Mesmers have way more access to boon removal and can steal boons. So in terms of effectiveness this one is debatable. But in shear numbers of boons that can be removed Mesemers have the crown

But why remove when you can corrupt? It’s like free damage and condi pressure whenever they try to buff themselves. It’s psychologically damaging because they will hesitate before applying a boon to themselves, knowing it will bite them in the butt momentarily. You make your opponent hesitate and question themselves, and you will win.

Removing a boon doesn’t have that level of impact on your opponent. Corruption over removal any day, and we have a ton of ways to do that.

Edit: Oh and the post above mine thatI somehow overlooked lays this out very well.

What they did to mesmer after s1 they are going to do to necro after s2.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

RlyOsim.2497:

What they did to mesmer after s1 they are going to do to necro after s2.

Enjoy it while it lasts.

I actually don’t think so. Chronomancer was horridly broken in season 1. The impact it had on matches could in no way be viewed as positive.

Reaper may be too strong, sure, but it is not outright defining the meta and determining how matches flow. Chronomancer bunker did.

Would recent changes to amulet selection favor Necromancer?

“Amulets
Removed the Celestial Amulet.
Removed the Sentinel Amulet.
Removed the Settler Amulet.
Removed the Soldier Amulet.

Added four new PvP amulets:

Mercenary’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Sage’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Condition
560 Healing Power
560 Vitality

Paladin’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Precision
560 Toughness
560 Vitality

Mender’s Amulet
1050 Power
1050 Healing Power
560 Precision
560 Vitality"

Once again, if it wasn’t for necro, and it’s boon corruption everyone would just accuse Heralds, Druids, Tempests, Scrappers as being OP. That’s the only reason necro is considered too strong because it is a class meant to strip enemies boons. Even then with proper timing, and skill you can evade/cleanse/stun, and possibly even fight a necro to a standstill. If they had left warriors berserk stance alone they would probably have been teh counter to reapers but since they stack a boon even that got turned on them.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Once again, if it wasn’t for necro, and it’s boon corruption everyone would just accuse Heralds, Druids, Tempests, Scrappers as being OP. That’s the only reason necro is considered too strong because it is a class meant to strip enemies boons. Even then with proper timing, and skill you can evade/cleanse/stun, and possibly even fight a necro to a standstill. If they had left warriors berserk stance alone they would probably have been teh counter to reapers but since they stack a boon even that got turned on them.

People do accuse them of being OP, even despite the boon corruption.

Mercenary’s definitely does benefit necros. You get the extra power damage on the staff marks and reaper shroud attacks while keeping a respectable condi damage output.

Prefer wanderer over merc.

Enough already, its the condi meta that is out of hand. When supplementary mechanics like condi/boon application and boon stripping become the main way to conduct combat you should know sth is very wrong. I returned to gw2 after years away and made a new character one month before hot launch. A necro, I made it because of the greatsword addition to the a/r/s/e/n/a/l . I main a gs Reaper and I play some pvp for armor skins. When you folks say “nerf the class” please be specific cause I sure as hell dont feel op.

pepsis.5384:

Enough already, its the condi meta that is out of hand. When supplementary mechanics like condi/boon application and boon stripping become the main way to conduct combat you should know sth is very wrong. I returned to gw2 after years away and made a new character one month before hot launch. A necro, I made it because of the greatsword addition to the a/r/s/e/n/a/l . I main a gs Reaper and I play some pvp for armor skins. When you folks say “nerf the class” please be specific cause I sure as hell dont feel op.

Its not the main way to conduct combat, it’s an alternative way to do so. All builds are either power/direct damage builds, condi builds, or in a few cases hybrid builds. I can’t speak of how it “used to be”, nor do I really care tbh. The “condi meta” doesn’t exist in and of itself. Certain professions will be able to produce a strong condi build, and if that build is deemed stronger than the power build for that profession, then it is considered the meta for that class. Like condi engineer for example. But there is no overarching “condi meta”. Nor is there any reason condi shouldn’t be as good as power. If each profession were balanced well imo, there would be equally good power and condi builds for all of them.

to be honest i don’t play necro much, i fight a lot of them tho, but honestly the only op thing on necro is if he plays a condi spec, but that is not necro being op it’s condi being op
yes F1 is very strong with the new elite and they might have to readjust the skill that gives them stability 24/7 but i don’t consider it op
if you manage to survive the shroud by jsut simply kiting them the necro is more or less done for
I’m talking a 1v1 scenario not group fight
i don’t see necro being op, but dmg of almost every class, well better said elite spec needs to be nerfed imho

Conditions aren’t OP. People just let themselves get hit by the heavy hitter skills because they never bothered to learn to avoid them, since they don’t put a massive number up at the time of the hit.

And Stability uptime is at best 44% assuming they are always in Shroud (hint: they’re not). The reason it may seem to be permanent is because a Necro rarely spends even 8 seconds at a time in Shroud, and usually spends ~15-20 seconds in between Shroud uses, so basically every time a Reaper is in Shroud, they have Stability for its duration.

But once they leave Shroud, which is probably ~70% of a fight, realistically, they don’t have that Stability.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Conditions aren’t OP. People just let themselves get hit by the heavy hitter skills because they never bothered to learn to avoid them, since they don’t put a massive number up at the time of the hit.

And Stability uptime is at best 44% assuming they are always in Shroud (hint: they’re not). The reason it may seem to be permanent is because a Necro rarely spends even 8 seconds at a time in Shroud, and usually spends ~15-20 seconds in between Shroud uses, so basically every time a Reaper is in Shroud, they have Stability for its duration.

But once they leave Shroud, which is probably ~70% of a fight, realistically, they don’t have that Stability.

i can run full condi cleanse on my build vs a full condi player, and the fight will end in one of us just leaving cause i do no more dmg and he doesn’t if i have enough cleanses
condition is way easier and more rewarding to play than power, especially because you only need one good offensive stat, condi dmg, while a power based player needs at least 2, power and precision, ideally 3 including ferocity
meaning we can either be glass canon or hybrid with some hp and or armor sacrificing dmg
a condi player takes a set that gives him power vita condi, condi main
or cele
or whatever you want since you only really need condi dmg
furthermore specing like that gives you a ton of survivability depending on class and build since there are no glass cannon condi builds
so you effectivly counter dmg by having more hp and or armor, you can still counter hard hitting attacks e.g. Evicerate by dodging a telegraphed attack
while still dishing out massive dmg with conditions
this wouldn’t be a problem if every class had a max of let’s say 3 condis to work with and skills that really give out a strong condi attack have high cd, this is not the case
every skill nowadays kitten’s out condi’s making it hard to clear the ones that actually need to go
you can’t waste your dodges on high dmg skills since your playing condi and every hit kittens you up
add that too pathetic runes like perplexity that punish ppl for actually defending them selves, insane buff foods and then builds like condi perplex mesmer, engi or kittenn dodge for days thieves, it takes no skill and is more rewarding
conditions are too strong and a broken system in this game
pve fine leave it, noone cares, but for a pvp wvw enviroment it is broken

now to necro, i have no issues with them, once you understand that your attack phase is when he ain’t in shroud it’s easy, if you bullrush while he is in shroud you’ll loose
easy as that
what i meant by the “perma stabi” was that yes the shroud is the strongest form, it is the more mobile form, that’s why some classes have problems with that because you won’t see e.g. a guard kyting a necro in shroud
having the stability work differently would allow the player to have e.g. 1 sec every 4 sec where you could attempt a stun, let’s say reaper pops stabi skill, 4 sec stabi, one second not, 4 stabi, 1 not, but make it 5 stacks or more during the 4 second, i know it sounds dumb but it would allow for some breathing room without nerfing it to hell, imho

Viper/Sinister would like to have a word with you about “no glass cannon builds.”

You know what else happens with conditions? They take time to get a kill. Funny thing about that.

“can’t waste your dodges on hard hitting skills” I think I just found the problem. You know you are not avoiding the hard-hitting skills. Why? It’s not like Power builds can’t wear you down with autos too, so what’s your justification there? Dodge the hard-hitters already and you will have a much easier time with condition builds. Or do you not know which skills are the “hard hitters?”

do you every see anyone play viper or sinister in a wvw or pvp enviroment?
secondly there is no glass cannon because as you said it takes time to do dmg, i think burst and take time to do dmg are 2 different things
and yes, if viper and or sinister where the only condi builds it would be fine, risk reward, good dmg lower sustain
but condi builds have sustian and dmg
power only has either or, or a meeh hybrid form
even if you dodge “condi bombs” as i said every attack will inflict condi’s no matter what you do you are ALWAYS ticking dmg, you are always ticking dots, you always have to clear as soon as you can or you’ll get overwhelmed
it’s a pathetic system
especially with the confusion change, now it always does a lot of dmg, no matter if you use a skill or not, it’s unbalanced in a pvp enviroment
the cleanses are mostly too weak on amost every class, and as i said if you take too many you’r basically useless vs everything else, as condi you are not
then
condi builds are simply put easier to play and more forgiving than power
e.g. try a power thief and then a condi thief
power engi (not scrapper simply engi) then condi engi
mesmer power vs mesmer perplex condi
and so on and so on
condi is a cheap way to play

one question Drarnor
what counters condi?
power is countered by condi or better skilled power
condi is countered by stronger condi
since cleanses don’t do kitten all 90% of the time

DHawk.2687:

one question Drarnor
what counters condi?
power is countered by condi or better skilled power
condi is countered by stronger condi
since cleanses don’t do kitten all 90% of the time

wut

DHawk.2687:

one question Drarnor
what counters condi?
power is countered by condi or better skilled power
condi is countered by stronger condi
since cleanses don’t do kitten all 90% of the time

Burst damage counters condition builds. Teamplay counters condition builds (cross-cleansing and cross-healing work wonders, which is why condition builds are totally useless in WvW zergs).

When you are fighting a condition build, you are put on a clock. Because eventually, they will wear you down and kill you. So you need to kill them before that happens.

And, of course, Necro counters condition builds. But that is really because Necro can change who the clock is on more than anything else.

Yeah, necro’s are so OP since we always start with 100% lifeforce in 1v1’s and in group fights..have access to block, invulnerabilites, and tons of other boons.. and our mobility is insane.

/Sarcasm off

One thing I also never understood how people assume necromancer’s are easy to master, when you have to be able to be aware of the right boons to corrupt for the max benefit, being able to jump in and out of deathshroud at the right time and being able to transfer conditions at the right time. Sure I wouldn’t say it’s more difficult than playing a engie or elementalist but it’s still a class that requires some thought to play well enough even if running condi’s.

Reaper is really really strong, one of the best spvp classes of the moment. But is still not OP.
But Why is so strong? Why ANet made it so strong? Why a lot of people say it’s OP?

-Shroud? No. The Shroud grant new powerfull skills (of you use the reaper) and grant you estra survavibility, but is both the only defence and the best damage a necro have, a thing that make it too risky to be wasted and frequently is better die than waste all the LF to survive 5 seconds more under a focus. And if you have it full you’re a god among mere mortals, but if you start a fight with no LF you’re a mere mortal among gods. It’s not a thing that you can “fix” and is the main reason why ANet was never able to balance the Necromancer, expecially in spvp.

-Condition Damage? No. Is strong, condition damage is really good on a Reaper, but what’s the difference between a necro and a reaper? Why before the Trait Rework system there was no one using condi necro (unless for Dhuum Fire glory moment) and now is the only way to play it? Why the trait rework made conditions be in stack, making burn really strong and the ability of the necro to send back the conditions a really good way to burst an enemy with his damage. The necro was unable to inflict good condition damage, but all the other classes was. Then redirect conditions against them was a really good way to inflict good damage and be “immune” to they’re high damage. But now there’s no more all that condition builds and the condition damage is no more strongher than direct damage.
Is hard to belive, but the actual meta is a DIRECT DAMAGE META. Just look at the builds in the metabattle: Power shiro herald, power scrapper, Shatter chrono. Then there’s a bunker ele and only one condition class: the Reaper. Then there’s direct damage thief, trapper guardian, a direct damage bunker or dps druid, eventually a direct damage warrior (I really love that funny oneshot build), and again teh Reaper.
Seriously: where the hell did you see all that condition damage? There’s Only the Reaper that play as a condition build! (sometimes the mallyx reve, but the shiro is better).
Then the Reaper isn’t OP why use conditions, also why the only reason he can play condition damage is why can Also use Direct Damage (Mercenary have the same amount of direct damage as of condi, is more a Hybrid than a condition build) and why Chill can inflict a good damage, reducing the problem of the necro to inflict damage (if you strip away chill damage from a necro you’ll see his damage reduced by 25-33%). Then he can convert boons, that frequently don’t give to the necro damage but soft CC (cripple), weakness and vulnerability, with sometimes bleed, a stack of burn or a stack of poison, that frequently don’t mean a big increment of the damage output.

-Survavibility? No. A reaper can be easy bursted down, expecially at the start of a match, when he have no LF. Just focus him and stomp. The reaper to survive is forced to CC the enemy and to kill him before be killed. Basicly in a common build the reaper have only a single escape button (the wurm) and then is totally without defence. If active the RS lose all his defence and is more easy to burst down and lose also his damage to survive a little longer (expecially in a a team fight situation).
In 1vs1 a good reaper can survive longer accumulating LF, starting with a full LF bar and using marks and eventually the spectral armor, but is still easy to burst down in a team fight why can’t protect himself.
Just Focus and Stomp.

Then why is so “OP”?

The answer is: Why Counter the Boon Spam with Boon Corruption.
That’s the only reason why the reaper is so strong in that meta. The only one.

Before the HoT the necro was the only classe able to kill eles and engis why countered they’re boon spam, making them weaker and focusing in direct damage, bursting them down, or reflecting the absurd Burn damage of the old cele ele build back to him.
Actually there’s elementalists, scrappers and revenants that spam boons all they time (expecially scrappers), and that make them a easy prey for a class that focus on the boon corruption.

Th only reason why the reaper is “OP” is why finally is a good class, with a good condi and direct damage (without both direct or condi his damage is heavly reduced, why play at his best with both the damage at the same time, with a mercenary “hybrid” build). But is still weak if you talk about the survavibility, don’t have any. Have not mobility. Have not AoE damage out of RS (and in RS have only skill 4 and 5, to spam poison or chill). Can’t hold a point in solo as other classes can do. Can’t be sent to steal a point. The Reaper is “bad” as always, is only more focused on boon corruption, taking under control other classes like engi, ele and reve.

The reaper is strong why the other best classes/builds focu on Boon Spamming, making him strong just by a Counter ability and not why is so much strong by himself.

Then, another time, there’s NOT a Condi Damage Meta. There’s a CC Condi spam Meta, is totally Another thing!
There’s only a class in the game that can really play as condi and is the Necro. Then all the other conditions you suffer was immobilize, weakness, vulnerability, cripple, slow, some collateral bleed and eventually confision, but there’s really a low amount of Damaging Conditions in the game.

If you look on you death screen during a match and see that a single condition inflicted you a insane amount of damage, then you’ll know that that condition is well balanced and not op why if it was OP it just needed to deal you the amount of your HP to kill you, not tree times more, just like a direct damage burst do.
Back in time, when Burn killed people with 80k of damage and everyone asked for a nerf, I was spamming on the form the same thing: Why a dps need only 20-25k of damage to kill you when a burn guardian need to spam 80k of burn (with also the direct damage to add) to kill you?
For the conditions on the reaper is the same think. more big is the numer, more time he needed to kill you.

The only reason the Reaper is strong at the moment is why keep under control the condi spam, there’s no other reasons to have a reaper in team out of make him remove boons from the focused enemy, no other reasons. Not why have a good dps, not why inflict conditions, not why have survavility or movement (that don’t have), not why can hold a point all alone (why other classes can do it better, in a high level spvp match).

reaper is OP? NO. Totally NO.
Is the right class in the right situation to counter the meta? (boon spamming and direct damage) Yes, it is. But still keep his weakness and can be defeated by a good player and different classes (daredevil, dragonhunter, a good herald or scrapper that know when Block/Evade and when CC and attack)

The reaper is balanced with the other classes, and even better, mantain a balance between the other classes, that is his main role in the ANet balance theory.

Silv.9207:

Reaper is really really strong, one of the best spvp classes of the moment. But is still not OP.
But Why is so strong? Why ANet made it so strong? Why a lot of people say it’s OP?

-Shroud? No. The Shroud grant new powerfull skills (of you use the reaper) and grant you estra survavibility, but is both the only defence and the best damage a necro have, a thing that make it too risky to be wasted and frequently is better die than waste all the LF to survive 5 seconds more under a focus. And if you have it full you’re a god among mere mortals, but if you start a fight with no LF you’re a mere mortal among gods. It’s not a thing that you can “fix” and is the main reason why ANet was never able to balance the Necromancer, expecially in spvp.

-Condition Damage? No. Is strong, condition damage is really good on a Reaper, but what’s the difference between a necro and a reaper? Why before the Trait Rework system there was no one using condi necro (unless for Dhuum Fire glory moment) and now is the only way to play it? Why the trait rework made conditions be in stack, making burn really strong and the ability of the necro to send back the conditions a really good way to burst an enemy with his damage. The necro was unable to inflict good condition damage, but all the other classes was. Then redirect conditions against them was a really good way to inflict good damage and be “immune” to they’re high damage. But now there’s no more all that condition builds and the condition damage is no more strongher than direct damage.
Is hard to belive, but the actual meta is a DIRECT DAMAGE META. Just look at the builds in the metabattle: Power shiro herald, power scrapper, Shatter chrono. Then there’s a bunker ele and only one condition class: the Reaper. Then there’s direct damage thief, trapper guardian, a direct damage bunker or dps druid, eventually a direct damage warrior (I really love that funny oneshot build), and again teh Reaper.
Seriously: where the hell did you see all that condition damage? There’s Only the Reaper that play as a condition build! (sometimes the mallyx reve, but the shiro is better).
Then the Reaper isn’t OP why use conditions, also why the only reason he can play condition damage is why can Also use Direct Damage (Mercenary have the same amount of direct damage as of condi, is more a Hybrid than a condition build) and why Chill can inflict a good damage, reducing the problem of the necro to inflict damage (if you strip away chill damage from a necro you’ll see his damage reduced by 25-33%). Then he can convert boons, that frequently don’t give to the necro damage but soft CC (cripple), weakness and vulnerability, with sometimes bleed, a stack of burn or a stack of poison, that frequently don’t mean a big increment of the damage output.

-Survavibility? No. A reaper can be easy bursted down, expecially at the start of a match, when he have no LF. Just focus him and stomp. The reaper to survive is forced to CC the enemy and to kill him before be killed. Basicly in a common build the reaper have only a single escape button (the wurm) and then is totally without defence. If active the RS lose all his defence and is more easy to burst down and lose also his damage to survive a little longer (expecially in a a team fight situation).
In 1vs1 a good reaper can survive longer accumulating LF, starting with a full LF bar and using marks and eventually the spectral armor, but is still easy to burst down in a team fight why can’t protect himself.
Just Focus and Stomp.

Then why is so “OP”?

The answer is: Why Counter the Boon Spam with Boon Corruption.
That’s the only reason why the reaper is so strong in that meta. The only one.

Before the HoT the necro was the only classe able to kill eles and engis why countered they’re boon spam, making them weaker and focusing in direct damage, bursting them down, or reflecting the absurd Burn damage of the old cele ele build back to him.
Actually there’s elementalists, scrappers and revenants that spam boons all they time (expecially scrappers), and that make them a easy prey for a class that focus on the boon corruption.

Th only reason why the reaper is “OP” is why finally is a good class, with a good condi and direct damage (without both direct or condi his damage is heavly reduced, why play at his best with both the damage at the same time, with a mercenary “hybrid” build). But is still weak if you talk about the survavibility, don’t have any. Have not mobility. Have not AoE damage out of RS (and in RS have only skill 4 and 5, to spam poison or chill). Can’t hold a point in solo as other classes can do. Can’t be sent to steal a point. The Reaper is “bad” as always, is only more focused on boon corruption, taking under control other classes like engi, ele and reve.

The reaper is strong why the other best classes/builds focu on Boon Spamming, making him strong just by a Counter ability and not why is so much strong by himself.

Then, another time, there’s NOT a Condi Damage Meta. There’s a CC Condi spam Meta, is totally Another thing!
There’s only a class in the game that can really play as condi and is the Necro. Then all the other conditions you suffer was immobilize, weakness, vulnerability, cripple, slow, some collateral bleed and eventually confision, but there’s really a low amount of Damaging Conditions in the game.

If you look on you death screen during a match and see that a single condition inflicted you a insane amount of damage, then you’ll know that that condition is well balanced and not op why if it was OP it just needed to deal you the amount of your HP to kill you, not tree times more, just like a direct damage burst do.
Back in time, when Burn killed people with 80k of damage and everyone asked for a nerf, I was spamming on the form the same thing: Why a dps need only 20-25k of damage to kill you when a burn guardian need to spam 80k of burn (with also the direct damage to add) to kill you?
For the conditions on the reaper is the same think. more big is the numer, more time he needed to kill you.

The only reason the Reaper is strong at the moment is why keep under control the condi spam, there’s no other reasons to have a reaper in team out of make him remove boons from the focused enemy, no other reasons. Not why have a good dps, not why inflict conditions, not why have survavility or movement (that don’t have), not why can hold a point all alone (why other classes can do it better, in a high level spvp match).

reaper is OP? NO. Totally NO.
Is the right class in the right situation to counter the meta? (boon spamming and direct damage) Yes, it is. But still keep his weakness and can be defeated by a good player and different classes (daredevil, dragonhunter, a good herald or scrapper that know when Block/Evade and when CC and attack)

The reaper is balanced with the other classes, and even better, mantain a balance between the other classes, that is his main role in the ANet balance theory.

Thank you for this post. It really cleared some things for me. As it should be quite obvious from the things I wrote here I’m not exactly an experienced player. I dont know what other classes can do and I barely know what mine can do. All I know is I like playing a greatsword reaper and I die playing a gs reaper 90% of the time in pvp.

CC spam meta sounds about right because I do find my character unable to act/ interrupted most of the time when facing people who know what they are doing. And last but not least when I think about it, the necro is indeed the clast most commonly responsible for killing me over time with condi damage while others are more in the direct dmg department with 1 exception. I’ve been hit for 15k gunflame crits by berserkers followed by another 10k from volley consistently which is alot and from a great distance too. Basically a team with a gun berserker needs to just distract the enemy for some time while their serker picks them off one by one.

Been playing necro since GW1, and all the way in GW2. I’m a hrdcore WvW player, not so much into PvP but I do PvP casually. Spending sometime in the ranked i ran into really bad necros, no where near OP, and im playing necro myself. I remember killing a a necro who got down so fast I clicked on him again since i thought i was killing something else!

Zergs tho are a different story, but I wont talk about that since its easy, but in Guild raids you cant yolo, but you will definitely have a huge impact damage wise, that if you know what you’re doing, also finishing downed players is easy on shroud, just press 2 then 4 you can finish what ever is down there.

On 1 vs 1 encounters, scrappers get me, the fight drags, exchanging hand shakes and stuff but eventually, they get me, it wont be the case if we were ‘That’ OP.

Silv.9207:

Reaper is really really strong, one of the best spvp classes of the moment. But is still not OP.
But Why is so strong? Why ANet made it so strong? Why a lot of people say it’s OP?

-Shroud? No. The Shroud grant new powerfull skills (of you use the reaper) and grant you estra survavibility, but is both the only defence and the best damage a necro have, a thing that make it too risky to be wasted and frequently is better die than waste all the LF to survive 5 seconds more under a focus. And if you have it full you’re a god among mere mortals, but if you start a fight with no LF you’re a mere mortal among gods. It’s not a thing that you can “fix” and is the main reason why ANet was never able to balance the Necromancer, expecially in spvp.

-Condition Damage? No. Is strong, condition damage is really good on a Reaper, but what’s the difference between a necro and a reaper? Why before the Trait Rework system there was no one using condi necro (unless for Dhuum Fire glory moment) and now is the only way to play it? Why the trait rework made conditions be in stack, making burn really strong and the ability of the necro to send back the conditions a really good way to burst an enemy with his damage. The necro was unable to inflict good condition damage, but all the other classes was. Then redirect conditions against them was a really good way to inflict good damage and be “immune” to they’re high damage. But now there’s no more all that condition builds and the condition damage is no more strongher than direct damage.
Is hard to belive, but the actual meta is a DIRECT DAMAGE META. Just look at the builds in the metabattle: Power shiro herald, power scrapper, Shatter chrono. Then there’s a bunker ele and only one condition class: the Reaper. Then there’s direct damage thief, trapper guardian, a direct damage bunker or dps druid, eventually a direct damage warrior (I really love that funny oneshot build), and again teh Reaper.
Seriously: where the hell did you see all that condition damage? There’s Only the Reaper that play as a condition build! (sometimes the mallyx reve, but the shiro is better).
Then the Reaper isn’t OP why use conditions, also why the only reason he can play condition damage is why can Also use Direct Damage (Mercenary have the same amount of direct damage as of condi, is more a Hybrid than a condition build) and why Chill can inflict a good damage, reducing the problem of the necro to inflict damage (if you strip away chill damage from a necro you’ll see his damage reduced by 25-33%). Then he can convert boons, that frequently don’t give to the necro damage but soft CC (cripple), weakness and vulnerability, with sometimes bleed, a stack of burn or a stack of poison, that frequently don’t mean a big increment of the damage output.

-Survavibility? No. A reaper can be easy bursted down, expecially at the start of a match, when he have no LF. Just focus him and stomp. The reaper to survive is forced to CC the enemy and to kill him before be killed. Basicly in a common build the reaper have only a single escape button (the wurm) and then is totally without defence. If active the RS lose all his defence and is more easy to burst down and lose also his damage to survive a little longer (expecially in a a team fight situation).
In 1vs1 a good reaper can survive longer accumulating LF, starting with a full LF bar and using marks and eventually the spectral armor, but is still easy to burst down in a team fight why can’t protect himself.
Just Focus and Stomp.

Then why is so “OP”?

The answer is: Why Counter the Boon Spam with Boon Corruption.
That’s the only reason why the reaper is so strong in that meta. The only one.

Before the HoT the necro was the only classe able to kill eles and engis why countered they’re boon spam, making them weaker and focusing in direct damage, bursting them down, or reflecting the absurd Burn damage of the old cele ele build back to him.
Actually there’s elementalists, scrappers and revenants that spam boons all they time (expecially scrappers), and that make them a easy prey for a class that focus on the boon corruption.

Th only reason why the reaper is “OP” is why finally is a good class, with a good condi and direct damage (without both direct or condi his damage is heavly reduced, why play at his best with both the damage at the same time, with a mercenary “hybrid” build). But is still weak if you talk about the survavibility, don’t have any. Have not mobility. Have not AoE damage out of RS (and in RS have only skill 4 and 5, to spam poison or chill). Can’t hold a point in solo as other classes can do. Can’t be sent to steal a point. The Reaper is “bad” as always, is only more focused on boon corruption, taking under control other classes like engi, ele and reve.

The reaper is strong why the other best classes/builds focu on Boon Spamming, making him strong just by a Counter ability and not why is so much strong by himself.

Then, another time, there’s NOT a Condi Damage Meta. There’s a CC Condi spam Meta, is totally Another thing!
There’s only a class in the game that can really play as condi and is the Necro. Then all the other conditions you suffer was immobilize, weakness, vulnerability, cripple, slow, some collateral bleed and eventually confision, but there’s really a low amount of Damaging Conditions in the game.

If you look on you death screen during a match and see that a single condition inflicted you a insane amount of damage, then you’ll know that that condition is well balanced and not op why if it was OP it just needed to deal you the amount of your HP to kill you, not tree times more, just like a direct damage burst do.
Back in time, when Burn killed people with 80k of damage and everyone asked for a nerf, I was spamming on the form the same thing: Why a dps need only 20-25k of damage to kill you when a burn guardian need to spam 80k of burn (with also the direct damage to add) to kill you?
For the conditions on the reaper is the same think. more big is the numer, more time he needed to kill you.

The only reason the Reaper is strong at the moment is why keep under control the condi spam, there’s no other reasons to have a reaper in team out of make him remove boons from the focused enemy, no other reasons. Not why have a good dps, not why inflict conditions, not why have survavility or movement (that don’t have), not why can hold a point all alone (why other classes can do it better, in a high level spvp match).

reaper is OP? NO. Totally NO.
Is the right class in the right situation to counter the meta? (boon spamming and direct damage) Yes, it is. But still keep his weakness and can be defeated by a good player and different classes (daredevil, dragonhunter, a good herald or scrapper that know when Block/Evade and when CC and attack)

The reaper is balanced with the other classes, and even better, mantain a balance between the other classes, that is his main role in the ANet balance theory.

Generally I will agree with this. There are a few minor points I would contend, but they aren’t the main thrust of your argument, so no reason to bother with.

@Silv.9207 exactly what I been saying, but the tryhards wanna say no they are op for reasons. Uh no if it wasn’t for the Reaper able to corrupt all this boon spam, the playerbase would be crying that the boon spam classes tempest/scrapper/herald/druid sorta…. would be more OP. DH would be more harder to move off a point even if you could kite him, and bunker mesmer despite nerfs would still be a thing.

Reaper is in the right spot right now, not OP but not UP either. You hit the nail on the head Silv.

The same thing gets said of mesmers, and the only thing they have going for them now is Moa and Portal. If you do one thing people don’t like, whether it makes you more powerful or not, you’re “OP”.

I dont believe that reapers are op, i think its just condis being overtuned atm that makes reapers look op. Any profession that rolls a condi build tends to do a lot of damage, warriors, revs, mesmers, thieves. They all do a lot of damage with condis tho they dont apply them as well as reapers can. In the current state of the game anything without condi cleaners just gets destroyed….

Frank.3791:

I dont believe that reapers are op, i think its just condis being overtuned atm that makes reapers look op. Any profession that rolls a condi build tends to do a lot of damage, warriors, revs, mesmers, thieves. They all do a lot of damage with condis tho they dont apply them as well as reapers can. In the current state of the game anything without condi cleaners just gets destroyed….

That’s because people were used to condi being crap. After last year’s june update, and even more so with HoT, condi has become a feasible way to build characters, and people don’t like change. So now that they have to figure out how to deal with condi, instead of revising strategies, they just start complaining about it. Which is what everyone does as soon as they can’t do whatever it is they feel like they should be able to do.

Haven’t play GW2 in a couple months. We are OP now? Lulz.

Zera.8907:

Haven’t play GW2 in a couple months. We are OP now? Lulz.

If we went according to this forum alone, we’ve been OP since release as far as I remember. These cute threads never died. LOL

Hmm. I disagree and agree with so many points here.

I dont think that Reaper on its own would be so hated if condis would still be working like they did before all the changes. That all the Condis can be stacked is horrible. It gives condi builds the opportunity to burst a opponent down. Its not like condis kill you slowly. If you play against the Meta Mesmer or other non Meta Condi Builds you are melting in seconds. A well timed condi bomb on a Necro is also fast enough.
The truth is that many many many “new” Reaper players are not good at doing this. They dont know when to do it and think that spamming scepter one is a option. I have played Necro for a long time before HoT. It was a great way to deal with the cele Ele Meta and you had your Spot in Teams if you are good at doing your Job. Now most Teams are running a Reaper. Chill is absolutely overtuned. Its on his own a extrem stroong debuff for your opponent but with Necro its also a hard hitting Hammer.
People start to complain about Condis more and more because so many Condis are implemented in the game. They are given like candys.
Its easy to see the poor design on Condi Rev. They got Burning, Torment and Confusion. No need for special Sigils here or even a special rune. Its so kitten easy to stack the most strongest Condis on some builds.
The last days i have played against more and more Condi warriors. Warrior is in a terrible spot at the moment but the Condis they can do in a second are destroying your healthbar.
At the same time they implemented so many condis they reduced some cooldowns for condi and corrupt skills. But they didnt reduced the cooldowns for the condicleans. Not every class can cleans many codis at the same time. Often a Condicleans can only cleans a few condis at once. The problem with this skills are all the cover condis.
I agreed with vulnerability also effects conditions just because many classes that have played condis also gave vulnerability. But with all the Hybrids coming up its just a mess.
Chronophantasma Shatter, Signet Chillomancer and also Condi Mallyx are played with Mercanary Amulet.
The Reaper is doing great power Damage in Reaper and at the same time he gives Chill.

Should Reaper get nerfed? YES….. BUT only if all other too strong classes are getting nerfed at the same time. It wouldnt help if we just nerf one class at the time. Power Rev is outshining every other Power Spec. Scrapper has to much sustain while doing great damage. Tempest is reduced to one viable Build. Give Eles something and reduce the Heal or the Sustain (damage Reduction uptime is to much) to normal.
And the Conditions have to be looked at. These are just some examples.

If everything is tuned down to a healthy state Reaper would no longer be discussed that much.

Good Thieves can destroy Necros. If a Necro is on point, or on their own, a Thief can jump them, cause them to go into Reaper Shroud, wait for the Shroud to deactivate, then with no good defenses left, kill them quickly.

That would be a big thing if Thiefs are not so rare and outshined by Revenants.

Zynt.5769:

Good Thieves can destroy Necros. If a Necro is on point, or on their own, a Thief can jump them, cause them to go into Reaper Shroud, wait for the Shroud to deactivate, then with no good defenses left, kill them quickly.

Yep, thats happened to my reaper plenty of times

Themistokles.1238:

Hmm. I disagree and agree with so many points here.

I dont think that Reaper on its own would be so hated if condis would still be working like they did before all the changes. That all the Condis can be stacked is horrible. It gives condi builds the opportunity to burst a opponent down. Its not like condis kill you slowly. If you play against the Meta Mesmer or other non Meta Condi Builds you are melting in seconds. A well timed condi bomb on a Necro is also fast enough.
The truth is that many many many “new” Reaper players are not good at doing this. They dont know when to do it and think that spamming scepter one is a option. I have played Necro for a long time before HoT. It was a great way to deal with the cele Ele Meta and you had your Spot in Teams if you are good at doing your Job. Now most Teams are running a Reaper. Chill is absolutely overtuned. Its on his own a extrem stroong debuff for your opponent but with Necro its also a hard hitting Hammer.
People start to complain about Condis more and more because so many Condis are implemented in the game. They are given like candys.
Its easy to see the poor design on Condi Rev. They got Burning, Torment and Confusion. No need for special Sigils here or even a special rune. Its so kitten easy to stack the most strongest Condis on some builds.
The last days i have played against more and more Condi warriors. Warrior is in a terrible spot at the moment but the Condis they can do in a second are destroying your healthbar.
At the same time they implemented so many condis they reduced some cooldowns for condi and corrupt skills. But they didnt reduced the cooldowns for the condicleans. Not every class can cleans many codis at the same time. Often a Condicleans can only cleans a few condis at once. The problem with this skills are all the cover condis.
I agreed with vulnerability also effects conditions just because many classes that have played condis also gave vulnerability. But with all the Hybrids coming up its just a mess.
Chronophantasma Shatter, Signet Chillomancer and also Condi Mallyx are played with Mercanary Amulet.
The Reaper is doing great power Damage in Reaper and at the same time he gives Chill.

Should Reaper get nerfed? YES….. BUT only if all other too strong classes are getting nerfed at the same time. It wouldnt help if we just nerf one class at the time. Power Rev is outshining every other Power Spec. Scrapper has to much sustain while doing great damage. Tempest is reduced to one viable Build. Give Eles something and reduce the Heal or the Sustain (damage Reduction uptime is to much) to normal.
And the Conditions have to be looked at. These are just some examples.

If everything is tuned down to a healthy state Reaper would no longer be discussed that much.

While I agree with most of what you said, your post is just pushing me more into the camp of them having skills/traits/whatever work differently between pvp/wvw and pve. Because if they do what you suggest, they are going to have to tone down so much pve content (mainly in HoT) to make it even feasible to complete, and forget having any chance in raids. I’m starting to see the impossibility of balancing the classes for pvp, and have them still be functional in pve, and vice versa.

Too be quite honest, I’m not surprised reapers are considered OP when most classes run around the level of cleanses as a pre hot engineer, which was considered condi food. On top of that they all run a lot of boons as well, so bonus for the reaper.

Tim.6450:

Too be quite honest, I’m not surprised reapers are considered OP when most classes run around the level of cleanses as a pre hot engineer, which was considered condi food. On top of that they all run a lot of boons as well, so bonus for the reaper.

Bonus for any necro, reaper or not. boon corruption isn’t just for reapers.

naturesoul.3578:

This thread is silly sure maybe if your unskilled player in pvp and don’t know how to counter what is in front of you, you might say necro is too " OP" , but reality is no class is really better then the other , every class has its weak point and whining because you can’t find a class/builds weakness isn’t because there there “OP”, its because you lack the skill to find it.
As far as necro being tanky, i feel it should be, and was meant to be. As for PvE Raiding its the perfect class to build a tank around building around Life stealing/healing and Minions for fortifying a players toughness, condi removal, extra self healing to help mitigate damage, and a little bonus damage to help offset all the stats sunk into toughness/healing/vitality type stats. the Minions should be tanky too if your sinking major talents into them to make them so. Minions without these talents are not all that tanky. They specialized ranger with druid to be focused around raiding to be a main healer, I feel Reaper was meant to be specialized and focused around being the main tank option in raiding. for one thing there health pools are on par with warriors if not better. I don’t pvp much anymore, my build is around PvE raiding.

My Build, and things to consider. If you look at the runes and sigils you can tell it was meant for that role, also jump the counter for the sigil showing the sigil charges to 25. keep in mind Life stealing scales with power/healing and you want at least enough crit to proc sigil of strength somewhat reliably , which is about 29 to 30% crit chance minimum, after that you want to stack toughness as high as you can to give more damage mitigation and how raiding bosses target high toughness. The gear used in link is what i use currently including the infusions. in any case hope you like it. My only regret is there is no sigil that procs taunt or give necro an aoe taunt would be helpful for emergency trash/boss pulls.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRMQNAR3dnMbCdbid1Au1As3gFqBbKEUBmAxdwRYKUKAMAGWA-ThSGABGfQEyTJ457PUpaFRpUBgnUQTKrM7CCMpunFVVJAwBw8zn8lv8zP/8Xe5lXe5lb5lXe5lXuUABu1C-e

I feel pretty OP when I play my Necromancer, honestly.
Then again, my main is a Thief so I’m pretty sure I’d feel godlike switching to any other class.

Necro is OP, I have one, I know they are.

but there is an easy fix without actually nerfing them!
all they need to do is make ground target spells reflectable, the only reason necro seems so strong is that almost all of their abilities are immune to reflect.

Klipso.8653:

Necro is OP, I have one, I know they are.

but there is an easy fix without actually nerfing them!
all they need to do is make ground target spells reflectable, the only reason necro seems so strong is that almost all of their abilities are immune to reflect.

necro skills are balanced with their projectileless quality in mind, it’s why axe is tuned so low

this thread makes me smile because i mainly play a mesmer, but when i play a necro both in pve and pvp everything is so much easier i don’t even have to bother dodge anything.
and minions don’t die after the enemy you targeted died.
i don’t know if it is overpowered or not, but definitely it’s easier to play than a mesmer.

Necromancer is easier than mesmer because the mesmer is so very fragile.

Necro is not OP. But being so easy to go against for so long people are not like WTF I can’t stomp the necro like I did before whaaaaaaa they are OP whaaaaaaa. Please nerf them so we can kill them easy like before whaaaaaaaaa!!!!! I’m gonna sign on and say I play necro so people believe me when I say they are OP WHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!

I just felt like putting in some humor into this conversation even those it’s mostly true.

Power reaper in WVW didn’t seem op at all. I switched to rabid/dire and people just can’t handle the condis though. Basically if people don’t know their class well, have little experience needing to cleanse or kite or are in a situation where kiting is impossible they may very well get wrecked.

A reaper that doesn’t know the class is still an easy kill. Positioning is still really important because of no invuln or real ability to escape. Still a major target to get focused. Cant really catch anything unless you get a lucky chill or cripple in. Anybody decent will get away.

Also, unless you have buddies and/or are ready to face tank hell, don’t pull the reaper.