Yeah, i think if they fix the bugs and look at conditions as a whole, we might be looking at a very different class.
Okay, I have a secret to share – necro isn’t weak, on the contrary – it is one of the strongest teamfight professions. I’ve played pretty much any build you can imagine as a necro and I can say the only field necro really lacks buildwise is support.
Necro is great at condition damage, has some very powerful power builds, is great at control, counters warriors and thieves like a boss.
Support is the only problems, because it is pigeonholed into wells and a mark on two from the staff.
With that said…
Still doesn’t change the fact necro is a fail compared to an ele or engie.
Just super boring.
Happily ditched it some time ago.
(edited by leman.7682)
From: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Game-Update-Notes-December-14-2012/first#post999247
“Necro
The necro boasts the highest natural health of all the caster classes, and also has death shroud to extend that life total even higher. While they don’t have some of the escape or damage reduction capabilities that other classes boast, they do have a lot of ways to win attrition fights. They have access to poison on multiple weapons, they are able to combine condition damage with raw damage, and they have multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills. Necomancers also have multiple movement disabling abilities, while allows them to chase down enemies who are low on health.”
“Multiple disables to interrupt enemy skills”, the 1sec Fear on a 20 sec cooldown?
Can’t chase anyone because the “multiple movement disabling abilities” are too easily countered.
Doesn’t that make the whole “attrition class” redundant?
It’d be funny how much necros would benefit by just having that poison hit on the final attack in the scepter chain apply a single extra second of poison more than it does.
(edited by Minion of Vey.4398)
The biggest problem may also be the simplicity of the skill design. You have boons and conditions and everything revolves around those. This leaves little room for creativity with skills imo.
You’re really onto something there. Where are hexes, deep wound, shutdown or meaningful interrupts? On the face of it gw2s fluid and dynamic combat looks like a great improvement, but it’s seriously lacking in depth compared to its predecessor.
And the poor necro, it’s a sorry comparison to how it used to be. No army of minions, devastating life steals and punishing hexes for you, just some broken AI and a few weak wells. And death shroud as a class mechanic? It’s a horrible mess, bring minion mastery back to the core of the class that’s what most people play a necro for.
Necros are not fine, people should stop saying that.
They are only fine if you spec a certain way, which I don’t want to play.
I want my Minion Master to be viable for more things than Orr farming.
I want my pets to have a higher IQ than a rock, just rework pets complete kitten
I want my staff skills to have the ability to be triggered by a world dragon, since they are a pretty big chunk of my DPS and condition removal/transfer.
Necros are far from fine.
Fix pets and you’d have a ton less complaining, many many many people rolled this class with the intention of it having useful, functional pets. You know, like necromancers in every other game that has ever existed. To be told sorry, you get to summon wet paper bags that die when something looks at them and deal mediocre damage even when alive – oh and you can’t even control them one iota to get them out of boss 1 hit ko’s, poison, red circles, etc – is just a slap in the face. Give pets more health, some kind of aoe dmg resistance, something, to let people who enjoy minions actually use them. There’s 1 or 2 builds that are ‘competitive’ now, that you have to try 10x as hard as a warrior or thief to do almost as good as them. That just isn’t right.
(edited by Relair.1843)
Just to head from Anet “Someone is looking into it” would be a nice change.
They said that in November I think. LOL
A bit of a damage boost would help.
However, if I manage to trap people with dark pact & wail of doom, I can usually burst them down in 3-4 seconds with dagger and wells, unless they’re a complete tank. This despite boasting 2500+ armor and 27,000 hp.
It can be pretty good, but it’s more about control than damage. When you have your opponent going WTF at every chill, fear, daze, cripple and immobilize you apply on them, they have little time to focus on you.
Thieves are usually toast against me. I just keep spamming dagger auto-attack while surrounded by wells and marks and they go down before I hit the ground. The average thief has less than half the health that I do. You can’t beat every thief, but you can get more comfortable with them by learning how the class works.
Keep in mind that your channel skills will hurt them even as they cloak in stealth.
(edited by TheGreatA.4192)
A bit of a damage boost would help.
However, if I manage to trap people with dark pact & wail of doom, I can usually burst them down in 3-4 seconds with dagger and wells, unless they’re a complete tank. This despite boasting 2500+ armor and 27,000 hp.
It can be pretty good, but it’s more about control than damage. When you have your opponent going WTF at every chill, fear, daze, cripple and immobilize you apply on them, they have little time to focus on you.
Thieves are usually toast against me. I just keep spamming dagger auto-attack while surrounded by wells and marks and they go down before I hit the ground. The average thief has less than half the health that I do. You can’t beat every thief, but you can get more comfortable with them by learning how the class works.
Keep in mind that your channel skills will hurt them even as they cloak in stealth.
As a thief that also plays a necro, I laugh at most necros. Wells are great for thieves only when you can immobilize them. A good thief is going to dodge out of the wells, wait 5 seconds then dodge back in(springing all your marks but evading damage). Wells are now on cooldown for 40s and most of your marks are on 20s+ cooldowns. All that’s left is your other weapon and Death shroud. A thief can drop DS in seconds and the necro in another few seconds.
On my necro my best bet is usually, death shroud through the initial burst using DS siphon, DS fear, Dagger immobilize+wells, then marks as fast as I can place them around the thief. The problem here is if the thief has the CC trait that shadow steps him. By that time they usually run and use whatevers handy to kill them. If DS is on cooldown at the start of the battle though it’s game over, no way to soak that burst and have enough life to pull everything off.
As a thief that also plays a necro, I laugh at most necros. Wells are great for thieves only when you can immobilize them. A good thief is going to dodge out of the wells, wait 5 seconds then dodge back in(springing all your marks but evading damage). Wells are now on cooldown for 40s and most of your marks are on 20s+ cooldowns. All that’s left is your other weapon and Death shroud. A thief can drop DS in seconds and the necro in another few seconds.
On my necro my best bet is usually, death shroud through the initial burst using DS siphon, DS fear, Dagger immobilize+wells, then marks as fast as I can place them around the thief. The problem here is if the thief has the CC trait that shadow steps him. By that time they usually run and use whatevers handy to kill them. If DS is on cooldown at the start of the battle though it’s game over, no way to soak that burst and have enough life to pull everything off.
This is why I use a 4 second immobilize followed up by a 3 second daze to keep the thieves in position. It’s definitely harder for a necro to beat a thief than it is for a thief to beat a necro (the same can be said about almost any class dealing with thieves) but it can be done. Probably easier than with most classes. Another thing is that I’m half-decent at predicting where they are moving next and do most of my damage while they’re stealthed.
Thing is that most thieves are so used to playing with low health and stubborn to kill you that they won’t run.
I would prefer a trait that says if a necro condition is removed, player takes damage, burst damage. While I’m at it I want it to be AoE life transfer burst damage to make up for the months of neglect.
As a thief that also plays a necro, I laugh at most necros. Wells are great for thieves only when you can immobilize them. A good thief is going to dodge out of the wells, wait 5 seconds then dodge back in(springing all your marks but evading damage). Wells are now on cooldown for 40s and most of your marks are on 20s+ cooldowns. All that’s left is your other weapon and Death shroud. A thief can drop DS in seconds and the necro in another few seconds.
On my necro my best bet is usually, death shroud through the initial burst using DS siphon, DS fear, Dagger immobilize+wells, then marks as fast as I can place them around the thief. The problem here is if the thief has the CC trait that shadow steps him. By that time they usually run and use whatevers handy to kill them. If DS is on cooldown at the start of the battle though it’s game over, no way to soak that burst and have enough life to pull everything off.
Just wanted to point out a good post, from someone who actually has fought multiple thief encounters as as necro. Its clear when you read the above that he is aware of the shortcomings of trying to fight a thief one on one, as well as the way to counter that in a well build. The only other reasonable counter I have found for thieves is a dot fear based build, which can also work well.
The problem is, that assumes the following:
1. You see the thief coming.
2. You have DS off cooldown (as the above poster mentioned).
3. You have enough DS to actually absorb a few hits and get your fear off in time.
If any of those three don’t happen, you drop before you can react, or you just barely surive long enough to get dropped 5 seconds later when the thief comes back out of stealth. Speaking about a condition/fear build here.
If you fail to land your immobilize in a power build, you may as well hang up your coat, because your toast. Cast on dagger immob is also fairly obvious to predict, and can be pre-emptively reacted to, unlike mug/bask venom.
Since Anet refuses to release stats on classes being played in wvw/spvp, its hard to tell where the necro is. I would content it shares the least played class slot with the engineer. And reasons for that can only be:
1. Class isn’t fun to play.
2. Class doesn’t effectively do what it needs to do.
3. Class is underpowered compared to other classes.
I still force myself to play my necro, and do well in wvw, but there is a reason why so very few people play necro right now in that environment. I like the necro and unlike most on the boards could care less about minions. I just want the cast times of the other skils to be reduced to mark cast times, so the class can feel fluid like mesmer/DDele/thief. Then we can talk about what the class needs, or the bigger issues of conditions and condition removal.
I think the necro is more subtle than other professions because it doesn’t have as many big numbers. And people just pick it up expecting a minion master. Then they never look back once they find out that the minions are worthless. What really matters with the necro is that I can kill things fast and survive well. I’d say it’s every bit as good as the elementalist or warrior for PvP or PvE. It just doeasn’t have any overpowered builds and a lot of bugs/problems. And yeah, thieves laugh at everything in the game because they are ridiculous.
If condition removal were not so stinking easy and if minions were even semi-useful it would be a great profession.
Even after the expansion pack, i still feel that the necromancer is weak compared to other classes.
I’ve been playing necro for 3 years, and my main character is a necro.
When HoT first came out, the necros got incredibly buffed. But a few months later, he got nerfed again, while all the other classes were getting buffed.
If you look around in gw2, you can see that the necro is clearly the less used class in the game.
Why i think the necro should get buffed again:
1-He is extremely slow: mouvement speed is terrible (not enough swiftness, no teleport) which makes it impossible for necros to get out of a fight. All of his skills take a lot of time to cast which makes it easy to be interrupted (chilled to the bones, marks, reaper and death shroud skills…). Thieves have a lot of endurance (3 dodges).
2-No enough survive ability: Death or reaper shroud are the only skills that give the necro some survive ability, but it still drains very fast, specially when taking heavy damage. Guardians and engis can become invulnerable, which is a very strong ability.
3-Condition damage is not that strong: There is absolutely no skill for necros, that apply confusion to foes. Looking at other classes like mesmer, they can apply a lot of confusion and torment. The only way to apply burning (whic is the most OP condition in the game) is by using a trait. But even that way, you are able to stack a maximum of 4 stacks on a foe. Looking at other classes like guardian or engi, they can apply up to 8 burning stacks, which will instantly kill the ennemy.
The only good conditions that the necro has, are torment (from scpetre skill 3) and poison (from RS skill 4). In my opinion, not enough.
And that’s without talking about the nerf of the trait: chill applies damage. Now chill no longer deal damage, but applies bleed, which is not as strong as the old trait.
4-Not enough healing: The necro has only his healing skill to heal. Looking at thieves, they can stealth for a few seconds, and come back with full health. Looking at guardians, they can apply a ton of boons and are very tanky (Aegis, block, retaliation…)
5-Not enough disabling skills: “fear”. That’s the only disabling condition that the necro has. Looking at engi, warriors, they can knock back, knock down, daze, stun.
6-What about the necro in pve, like dungeons? They are the weakest. No one needs a necro when there’s an elemantalist or a warrior for high DPS, a guardian for insane support and tank, a thief for stealth…
Enough talking, i think it’s high time that the necro gets buffed, and some other classes nerfed. The game needs to be BALANCED between all the classes.
Please Arenanet, think twice about this.
Way to go with necroing old topics.^^
To 4: Necros have really good regen application in some builds but sadly, regen like all healing becomes useless while in shroud. I think it would be a good start to allow regen to work while in shroud. And then maybe if this in not enough allow healing in general while in shroud (e.g. the bloodmagic grandmaster trait transfusion). But this should be done gradually since i am not sure how strong or weak it would be. But start with the regen boon and the other healing later.
Before Hot, necro was TERRIBLE. When HoT first came out, necro was one of the strongest classes, everybody had a necro! After a fiew months they nerfed him again…
Now he is the weakest class in the game! Not enough dps and bust damage, no escape abilities, very slow movement speed, all his skills can be easily interupted because of how slow they’re cast. Even with a condi build, he can’t do kitten compared to other classes, condi mesmer, warrior, guardian is MUCH stronger. For a zerker build, he is very squishy… his only chance to survive is death shroud or reaper shroud. This can let live 5 more seconds. Even the traits are bad… As for the skills…BULLkitten!
Anet, you should seriously BUFF THE NECROMANCER !!!!
Please don’t raise a 3 years old thread back from the mists… People will think that you are a necro if you do that.
Please don’t raise a 3 years old thread back from the mists… People will think that you are a necro if you do that.
You know what’s funny I started reading original post and most of what he says still Rings True to this day even after 3 years
Necro has been getting kitten on since gw2 came out. If the necro can beat the warrior which anet has a hard on for then it gets nerfed to the ground. Necro has been plagued with glitches and bugs since the beginning of the game and anet refuses to fix these. Dont expect much change at all….ever……just be like all the other no brain kittens and play a spam gs to win warrior.
Please don’t raise a 3 years old thread back from the mists… People will think that you are a necro if you do that.
You know what’s funny I started reading original post and most of what he says still Rings True to this day even after 3 years
Seriously?
here is the original post :
I mean come on…
why is it the least used class in wvw
why is it the least used class in dungeons
why can’t you speed run with it?
why does no one get a necro?
Because the dps is bad because condition damage is so nerf
What do you guys think
- Necro is not the least used class in WvW, you could even say that it is where necro have had it’s nich the whole time. Necro has been meta in this game mode since ages.
- Necro is one of the few profession that have no problem finding a place in high level fractal. Granted that dungeon are a thing of the past, the original thread is wrong on this point as well.
- Between the original post and now, condition damages have had a revolution. At the moment conditions damages are far from being “bad”. You could even say that condition damage is almost balanced atm.
So yes, this thread is totally outdated by the current situation and that’s why I said that it’s ot a good idea to necro a 3 years old dead thread. A moderator should have already closed it and even delete it.
- Necro is not the least used class in WvW, you could even say that it is where necro have had it’s nich the whole time. Necro has been meta in this game mode since ages.
cant speak for that, dont WVW.
- Necro is one of the few profession that have no problem finding a place in high level fractal. Granted that dungeon are a thing of the past, the original thread is wrong on this point as well.
scrub yolo runs, sure. They don’t do good dmg though. Somewhere between 7-15k less than some other classes
- Between the original post and now, condition damages have had a revolution. At the moment conditions damages are far from being “bad”. You could even say that condition damage is almost balanced atm.
And was heavily nerfed, leaving it crippled compared to say… condi ranger, hell even condi warrior.
(edited by Kahrgan.7401)
- Necro is one of the few profession that have no problem finding a place in high level fractal. Granted that dungeon are a thing of the past, the original thread is wrong on this point as well.
scrub yolo runs, sure. They don’t do good dmg though. Somewhere between 7-15k less than some other classes
Unlike raids, however, full dps classes are so often a liability in t4 fractals (especially fractals such as dredge or cliffside). In fact I went through a phase of stopping any eles from joining my lfg because they went down so often and were always the first to die. Whereas Necros are almost always reliable in doing damage and not dying.
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