Guild Wars 2

A-net I hope to God you read this, being a career necromancer sucks because the reaction I get and that is promoted while fighting necromancers is to be super aggressive. The best way to beat a necromancer is to be very aggressive and to smash it, this doesn’t make sense to me because necromancer should be kittening feared and players should have to die in order to jump on a necromancer and get the kill.

Besides all that general Necromancer concept I enjoy being a power built necromancer, which is what my build comes down to in the end every time. But the stupid thing about Necromancer is that there is no CONSEQUENCE to bunking a necromancer, I am constantly in a back-peddle while giving the illusion that I am aggressive but get no where from it. Sure wells do a fair amount of suppression to a target but nothing more than that, and the hell with being a minion-mancer, or condi-mancer. I can see that necromancer can do a lot of damage and de-buffs which is a beautiful thing, but my main gripe is that we get SAT on by every class because there is no consequence to doing so. This is why mesmers can stand right next to me and shatter all kitten day, why warriors can hammer-stun me for days…, why elementalists can do reflect while standing on my nuts wtf. The fact is that yeah, necromancer is a fragile class to buff or nerf but I want to be a feared kitten necromancer kitten it. I want a mesmer to think twice about going shatter factory on me, I want it to be a competitive class that doesn’t require a kitten tank to carry it. Les Go.

awww.. come here, you need a hug. It’s ok.. come join us other sobering necros who want anet to do this class some justice for once.

I agree
I play all professions and have mastered them somewhat (besides the mesmer).
Necromancer used to be awesome to play because people didn’t only run away due to the fear condition but also because they feared me

Played necro last week and was stunned for 20 seconds straight every time I respawned (was still alive though) but wasn’t able to do anything in retaliation.
Sure I had tens of thousands of hp (including life-force) but not being able to move, run, heal, attack or anything at all does not make it that fun to play :/

Am currently working on new necromancer builds that are pvp-viable which forces me to use foot in the grave trait for stability. Can’t even get a proper stomp off without it after all.

The only profession I play is necro actually, because I am used to it. The thing is, it is hard to make them shine in soloQ. I always hope I do not have other necro’s in my team, as it always seems to be the easiest target to go for. In team fights we get so easily ganked because we have no invulns, blocks, limited escape abilities and stunbreaks. In 1vs1 we can do fine, but not if it comes to node defending. We can have a decent damage output with power builds, but the mesmer for example can do that better. Condi’s are our strong point, but condimancers need a team.

I hope that the specializations will increase the overall build diversity, so that the necro can get a more significant role in pvp.

I have no idea how you can complain about necros in pvp
• Main necro – 4k+ h
• 7 necros allround (4 builds, 3 looks only)
• 8 months pvp ONLY (pve is maxed out & boreddom) – 3 ds crit / 5 terrormancer

Position + double stunbreaker can make the necromancer excell in 1v1’s & 2v2’s , larger fights should be avoided or solely if you can safespot and focus down a good target, practice on duelling & avoid wasting skills like most necros do. If you really spam 1 in DS you need to rethink your strategy because you’re doing it wrong, if you survive on passive procs & not domination, try again. + run plague for as it is awesome.

Gr.

Erm, they have some mechanical issues that can certainly be complained about. They’re ‘fine’, you could say, but they certainly lack mobility and escapes which is important as a roamer/damage dealer, regardless if its “not what necromancers are about”, they’re squishy and if they die you gave the enemy points. They don’t have much for gap closers either if you run dagger.

Their defenses are also quite subpar compared to say a zerker Ele/Guardian/Thief, and even Longbow ranger considering the signet and their incredible range (which is a defense itself). And beyond that, they’re a bit sluggish and highly telegraphed, again, unlike certain ele/thief sets ups where you can just all of the sudden take instant huge spikes of damage.

That said, maybe Necros aren’t in the wrong, maybe others need changed a bit, but people tend to enjoy the fast paced chaos of those builds, and Necro could certainly benefit from at least some of that.

More than ANYTHING though, I’d kill for a 25% LF fill up outside of combat. There’s nothing worse than starting a fight with 0% LF and missing your first few LF attacks. Its a heavy pendulum of effectiveness, and a bit too much of one if you ask me.

ronpierce.2760:

Erm, they have some mechanical issues that can certainly be complained about. They’re ‘fine’, you could say, but they certainly lack mobility and escapes which is important as a roamer/damage dealer, regardless if its “not what necromancers are about”, they’re squishy and if they die you gave the enemy points. They don’t have much for gap closers either if you run dagger.

Their defenses are also quite subpar compared to say a zerker Ele/Guardian/Thief, and even Longbow ranger considering the signet and their incredible range (which is a defense itself). And beyond that, they’re a bit sluggish and highly telegraphed, again, unlike certain ele/thief sets ups where you can just all of the sudden take instant huge spikes of damage.

That said, maybe Necros aren’t in the wrong, maybe others need changed a bit, but people tend to enjoy the fast paced chaos of those builds, and Necro could certainly benefit from at least some of that.

More than ANYTHING though, I’d kill for a 25% LF fill up outside of combat. There’s nothing worse than starting a fight with 0% LF and missing your first few LF attacks. Its a heavy pendulum of effectiveness, and a bit too much of one if you ask me.

10% would be fine aswell, no need to overkill

Falcon.8713:

ronpierce.2760:

Erm, they have some mechanical issues that can certainly be complained about. They’re ‘fine’, you could say, but they certainly lack mobility and escapes which is important as a roamer/damage dealer, regardless if its “not what necromancers are about”, they’re squishy and if they die you gave the enemy points. They don’t have much for gap closers either if you run dagger.

Their defenses are also quite subpar compared to say a zerker Ele/Guardian/Thief, and even Longbow ranger considering the signet and their incredible range (which is a defense itself). And beyond that, they’re a bit sluggish and highly telegraphed, again, unlike certain ele/thief sets ups where you can just all of the sudden take instant huge spikes of damage.

That said, maybe Necros aren’t in the wrong, maybe others need changed a bit, but people tend to enjoy the fast paced chaos of those builds, and Necro could certainly benefit from at least some of that.

More than ANYTHING though, I’d kill for a 25% LF fill up outside of combat. There’s nothing worse than starting a fight with 0% LF and missing your first few LF attacks. Its a heavy pendulum of effectiveness, and a bit too much of one if you ask me.

10% would be fine aswell, no need to overkill

Erm, not really, 10% you’d pretty much get shot right back out of it. 10% would be fine for like an MM or Condimancer who mostly just uses it for doom until later anyways, but Power, I don’t really think so.

Maybe 10% baseline and the Soul Reaping tree could additionally increase how much you start out with per point, maybe like adding 2% out of combat LF per point (12% extra) for 22% for power, and 10% for MM/Condimancers who are a bit less reliant on it. I think that’d be fair. Early Lifeforce for a power necro means the world though.

And you have to figure, a lot of times, after the start of the match, we start out with some anyways. This is mostly a start-up booster and slight boost for after you die with no lifeforce. Even 25% isn’t “omg crazy” considering we can already start some fights with up to 80-100% regardless. This is mostly a match start up bonus to get us rolling.

Absolutely right, I was on my necro yesterday, and along with one Ranger (to begin with) we could not take down a solitary warrior – it’s healing was ridiculous. The guy even whispered me to ask if I was OK.

Granted, I couldn’t break combat to switch out a couple of skills that would be more suited to 1 v 1, so I was stuck with wells.

He turns his gaze to me an in a few hits my life is all gone – deathshroud too. That was with 2600 armor.

I only actively play this necro, but I’m sick of playing a character that simply has no chance whatsoever – everyone knows it which is why we’re the first target.

ronpierce.2760:

Falcon.8713:

ronpierce.2760:

Erm, they have some mechanical issues that can certainly be complained about. They’re ‘fine’, you could say, but they certainly lack mobility and escapes which is important as a roamer/damage dealer, regardless if its “not what necromancers are about”, they’re squishy and if they die you gave the enemy points. They don’t have much for gap closers either if you run dagger.

Their defenses are also quite subpar compared to say a zerker Ele/Guardian/Thief, and even Longbow ranger considering the signet and their incredible range (which is a defense itself). And beyond that, they’re a bit sluggish and highly telegraphed, again, unlike certain ele/thief sets ups where you can just all of the sudden take instant huge spikes of damage.

That said, maybe Necros aren’t in the wrong, maybe others need changed a bit, but people tend to enjoy the fast paced chaos of those builds, and Necro could certainly benefit from at least some of that.

More than ANYTHING though, I’d kill for a 25% LF fill up outside of combat. There’s nothing worse than starting a fight with 0% LF and missing your first few LF attacks. Its a heavy pendulum of effectiveness, and a bit too much of one if you ask me.

10% would be fine aswell, no need to overkill

Erm, not really, 10% you’d pretty much get shot right back out of it. 10% would be fine for like an MM or Condimancer who mostly just uses it for doom until later anyways, but Power, I don’t really think so.

Maybe 10% baseline and the Soul Reaping tree could additionally increase how much you start out with per point, maybe like adding 2% out of combat LF per point (12% extra) for 22% for power, and 10% for MM/Condimancers who are a bit less reliant on it. I think that’d be fair. Early Lifeforce for a power necro means the world though.

And you have to figure, a lot of times, after the start of the match, we start out with some anyways. This is mostly a start-up booster and slight boost for after you die with no lifeforce. Even 25% isn’t “omg crazy” considering we can already start some fights with up to 80-100% regardless. This is mostly a match start up bonus to get us rolling.

Ahh, excuse me, was thinking from condition perspective to land the classic combo + only from group perspective :/ been a long time since my power build time, but DS is your way to do things, sadly it still is a long cast time and limited power over range :/ (sadly we didn’t get somekind of wicked buff that gives us insane damage bursts on 1500 range every 6(?) seconds. )

Skyline.1283:

Absolutely right, I was on my necro yesterday, and along with one Ranger (to begin with) we could not take down a solitary warrior – it’s healing was ridiculous. The guy even whispered me to ask if I was OK.

Granted, I couldn’t break combat to switch out a couple of skills that would be more suited to 1 v 1, so I was stuck with wells.

He turns his gaze to me an in a few hits my life is all gone – deathshroud too. That was with 2600 armor.

I only actively play this necro, but I’m sick of playing a character that simply has no chance whatsoever – everyone knows it which is why we’re the first target.

We are an easy target true, but that’s why we don’t engage on-point battles and stand next to it. But still, even if we’re n1 target somewhere and get massive burst, good placed flesh wurm healing should do the thing to disengage for a second.

Falcon.8713:

7 necros allround (4 builds, 3 looks only)

You have more necros than I have characters

Not really sure where you’re coming from, honestly.

Necros are one of the strongest classes in the game in PvP formats. 6k autos in DS on a 100% crit chance with an EHP of around 40k really makes me wonder what kind of traits you’re using, not to mention all that CC and debuffing U.U They’re not mobile, but I mean is the decrepit dude with a zombie horde really supposed to be ninja-ing his way around the battlefield?

My gripes with necromancers is the dependency on DS and their rather meh elite skills. DS is absolutely stupidly strong, but there’s no way to build outside of it. Even rangers with the recent buffs have viable alternatives/capabilities while not building solely around their class mechanic. With the elites, I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place seeing as LF, while it pumps out ridiculous damage, is not very useful outside of WvW blobs and some PvE content, the minion itself is only so-so (or worse) if you’re not building MM, and plague suffers the same issues as Lich Form.

We’ll see what GS and specializations bring in regards to building outside of DS and the elite skill issue.

No matter the burdens we bear, I’ll love my Necromancer until the very end.

Phantom4Lyfe

necromancers have many shortcomings, there is no denying that…

but damage on a power build? really?

I tried out a strange celestial necromancer build in pvp.
It actually worked but I have no idea how.
6 matches, 6 wins, 5 deaths and average of 5 kills per match.

It isn’t amazing in any aspect besides the aspect of returning conditions to the caster.
AoE dmg is also quite good.

As an example:
We had close, it was a 4v4 at far and I was in a 1v1 against a bunker guardian at mid.
After 1 minute long skirmish I beat the guardian with 90% hp left and near full life-force. Then I ran to the 4v4 and within 2 seconds downed 3 of ’m.

but as I told you before I have no idea how it happened, I was just face-rolling my keyboard.

DeceiverX.8361:

Not really sure where you’re coming from, honestly.

Necros are one of the strongest classes in the game in PvP formats. 6k autos in DS on a 100% crit chance with an EHP of around 40k really makes me wonder what kind of traits you’re using, not to mention all that CC and debuffing U.U They’re not mobile, but I mean is the decrepit dude with a zombie horde really supposed to be ninja-ing his way around the battlefield?

My gripes with necromancers is the dependency on DS and their rather meh elite skills. DS is absolutely stupidly strong, but there’s no way to build outside of it. Even rangers with the recent buffs have viable alternatives/capabilities while not building solely around their class mechanic. With the elites, I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place seeing as LF, while it pumps out ridiculous damage, is not very useful outside of WvW blobs and some PvE content, the minion itself is only so-so (or worse) if you’re not building MM, and plague suffers the same issues as Lich Form.

We’ll see what GS and specializations bring in regards to building outside of DS and the elite skill issue.

Are you talking about WvW our sPvP? There are differences, which favor necromancers a lot (the most noicable one is the 100% life force at the start of every fight). Also death shroud is what you allow it become, if you keep your distance and use cc wisely, you’ll realize they are not that strong. A lot of life force comes from dagger auto attack and warhorn #5 both are very close range. Spectral armor is another big life force generator and if you don’t attack it, it generates nothing.

DeceiverX.8361:

Not really sure where you’re coming from, honestly.

Necros are one of the strongest classes in the game in PvP formats. 6k autos in DS on a 100% crit chance with an EHP of around 40k really makes me wonder what kind of traits you’re using, not to mention all that CC and debuffing U.U They’re not mobile, but I mean is the decrepit dude with a zombie horde really supposed to be ninja-ing his way around the battlefield?

My gripes with necromancers is the dependency on DS and their rather meh elite skills. DS is absolutely stupidly strong, but there’s no way to build outside of it. Even rangers with the recent buffs have viable alternatives/capabilities while not building solely around their class mechanic. With the elites, I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place seeing as LF, while it pumps out ridiculous damage, is not very useful outside of WvW blobs and some PvE content, the minion itself is only so-so (or worse) if you’re not building MM, and plague suffers the same issues as Lich Form.

We’ll see what GS and specializations bring in regards to building outside of DS and the elite skill issue.

how are you getting 6k dmg from the auto atks btw? i get how you got the 100% crit chance, but i cant get my dmg to 6k.

WvW with some berserker/valkyrie gear optimization with might from BiP which gets cleansed instantly through generosity. The numbers are a bit lower in sPvP, but each hit resembles that of a tankier thief. The power scaling is absolutely insane on DS’s autos compared to most other classes/builds. I’m no meta-runner, but the damage cababilities on a power build are way higher than I think a lot of people give it credit for. I understand that my guild is re-evaluating hammertrain atm because more necromancers in theory provides more damage and an earlier engage with almost identical support and in general better disabling effects with more durability.

Lol In sPVP we generally see 2.2-3k life blasts (upwards 3.7-4.2k on targets under 50%). Thats a pretty big difference. :P

ronpierce.2760:

Lol In sPVP we generally see 2.2-3k life blasts (upwards 3.7-4.2k on targets under 50%). Thats a pretty big difference. :P

The power creep in WvW is real. If you spend all of your time in sPvP, you’d probably be surprised what you see out in WvW. Just like how I was surprised at how much less effectual PU Mesmers were in an sPvP environment, and how Thief damage was actually manageable. I specifically remember having a dueling night in my guild a while back in our custom arena, thinking “Oh wow, this is what sPvP feels like? Nicccccccce!”.

Totally different experience.

And I have no idea what the OP is on about. It sounds like he wants Necros to be OP, as he wants classes to fear engaging us, like a class would if it was totally hard-countered by another class. That would just make me sad.

Yeah, I think the OP might be a bit dramatic in its approach but Necromancer could certainly use some love. Specifically in cast times (general combat flow) and survivability and possibly starting fights with some Life Force. Otherwise, they’re doing alright. I’ll reserve too much judgement for GS though, I have a feeling it’s intended to answer a lot of questions we may have.

And yeah, that’s actually a primary reason I stayed out of WvW. I wasn’t a fan of the thought of 20k backstabs and 1v5ing being a normal thing. It just didn’t seem right.

20k backstabs only happen if you’re up against builds running zero available utility skills and either a weapon swap cooldown or a heal on cooldown as well as steal on cooldown on engage. I’d call that a pretty fair trade-off seeing as necro lich form autos for 12k+ or 6k Life Blasts, warriors eviscerate for 10-15k, eles BS for 10k/combo for 40k, rangers RF for 10-15k, mesmers shatter for 10-15k, engineers murder pretty much anything with excessive conditions, guards whirl/ZD for 10-15k, etc.

Condition food aside, the format arguably is more balanced with more viable builds than sPvP. It’s just a hell of a lot faster-paced.

Does anyone have a screenshot of 6k+ DS autos, or 12k+ LF autos?

No screenshots, but I calculated that an 8k lifeblast on a 3k armor target was quite possible, and for that matter, even on the lower end of some circumstances. Haven’t double-checked since the Might nerf, but I suspect it is still quite possible.

Yes, I understand that the necromancer has great capability which is what everyone on this thread has proven. Tainted shackles in DS is a good fallback damage when being bunked, but I still stand by my main gripe which is that there is no consequence to doing an aggressive bunk on a necromancer. Like maybe we could have the “Terror” trait scale per condition.. I have considered all the great feedback and now play very chaotically, I really have evolved my kiting abilities. I definitely don’t want to go back to death-shroud days and condi-necromancer is too boring, so I say the “Terror” trait should scale damage from 1/3/5 conditions or 1/4/8 conditions= more damage, definately value the necromancer too much for this to be a cry for overpowered abilities.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW3djc00SbrNG3whjiaBRqiQnIwsIPlhq5A-TZRFwAAOCAJeAAG3fQxFBgaZAA

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No screenshots, but I calculated that an 8k lifeblast on a 3k armor target was quite possible, and for that matter, even on the lower end of some circumstances. Haven’t double-checked since the Might nerf, but I suspect it is still quite possible.

It absolutely is. Granted, it’s either coming from a pretty bad build overall or might from other sources, but I think people genuinely underestimate how much damage this class can deal in PvP environments relative to the rest of the classes.

Frankly, if LF was maintainable in boss PvE, the necro would probably be taken over thieves.

DeceiverX.8361:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No screenshots, but I calculated that an 8k lifeblast on a 3k armor target was quite possible, and for that matter, even on the lower end of some circumstances. Haven’t double-checked since the Might nerf, but I suspect it is still quite possible.

It absolutely is. Granted, it’s either coming from a pretty bad build overall or might from other sources, but I think people genuinely underestimate how much damage this class can deal in PvP environments relative to the rest of the classes.

Frankly, if LF was maintainable in boss PvE, the necro would probably be taken over thieves.

Why would that be the case if dagger auto is actually our highest dps?

NeXeD.3042:

DeceiverX.8361:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

No screenshots, but I calculated that an 8k lifeblast on a 3k armor target was quite possible, and for that matter, even on the lower end of some circumstances. Haven’t double-checked since the Might nerf, but I suspect it is still quite possible.

It absolutely is. Granted, it’s either coming from a pretty bad build overall or might from other sources, but I think people genuinely underestimate how much damage this class can deal in PvP environments relative to the rest of the classes.

Frankly, if LF was maintainable in boss PvE, the necro would probably be taken over thieves.

Why would that be the case if dagger auto is actually our highest dps?

Only if you’re stacking 25 might and permanent fury off of other people. Otherwise it isn’t, and even then, it’s debatable on bosses.

The problem with necros is that they are way to easy to focus. The reason teams focus necros first is for 2 reasons, 1 they deal a lot of damage. Having said that the main reason teams focus necros first is because you can focus necros and quickly kill them, or make them pop plague. Spectral wurm is great, but thieves, mesmers, eles, and medi guards will have no problem chasing you down if they know what their doing. Thieves in general can close stupid ranges almost instantly.

Necros need better ways to mitigate damage in team fights. In 1vs1 and 2vs2, necros are fine, and actually quite strong, but anything above that and good players will cc train you to death and you won’t be able to do anything. Necros need an invuln, another mobility skill, more evades and/or wurm needs to be >2000 range. Every class should survive focus fire better than necros.

That’s pretty much every class, though. Get into a larger fight without access to stability, which not all classes have access to, and you’re pretty much dead on the ground. Wurm on 2k+ range would be OP, as thieves need to blow more than one skill to get that kind of range. Necros are supposed to be on the clunkier side in terms of mobility since they get so much damage reduction and staying power by such good condi removal and Life Force paired with the highest hp pool. Ultimately if you give necros that kind of gap closing, the thief as an entire class would not be played at all in sPvP. They’re played solely for boon stripping and mobility, which then necros would be arguably better at both with better innate durability with similar or better damage output at a lower risk with better matchups against other meta builds. If anything, all I can see being really necessary for the class is a utility which would stunbreak and grant a small amount of life force to keep the necromancer able to better sustain once CC’ed.

Necros are focused first because they’re so good in team fights. Let the necro live and you’ve pretty much killed yourself/team.

DeceiverX.8361:

Necros are focused first because they’re so good in team fights. Let the necro live and you’ve pretty much killed yourself/team.

Also true with staff elementalists, engineers, rangers, thieves…

Anyone really. Giving anyone free reign during a teamfight usually ends in you losing that fight. Necros are in no way unique on this. They are unique in how easy they are to focus.

Rather than yet another stunbreak that builds life force (three of ours already do), I’d rather see one that just has a short cooldown without a massive pre-cast.