Guild Wars 2

This is a reality check for all Necromancer mains who are repressed from years of being OP in ideal situations and somewhat less so in normal play.

Stop worrying about how to to nerf ourselves.

Please.

… Yeah. I see a lot of people suggesting nerfs to Reaper out of fear it may be OP and invite later nerfs. It’s kinda freaky.

I was wondering what this thread was going to be about.

Fully agree. x)

+1 /15 characters.

It’s a lot better if the Specialization is released OP and then dealt with after the community has playtested it extensively for a month or two so by doing balancing shaves in the subsequent patches. Of course, if Anet plans on waiting half a year or more before they decide to do anything it could prove problematic.

On the flip side, I often feel like Necromancers are the most realistic community. I don’t support moving away from that. It’s the reason I love most Necros and I stay away from thieves and Engineers. :P

ronpierce.2760:

On the flip side, I often feel like Necromancers are the most realistic community. I don’t support moving away from that. It’s the reason I love most Necros and I stay away from thieves and Engineers. :P

True, Necromancer’s version of euphoria is pessimistic compared to Mesmer’s Disco Ball idea

I’m worried about how to nerf ourselves when appropriate because I don’t trust ANet to do it. I’d rather nerf us, and make sure those nerfs are properly directed, than let ANet Dumbfire us again.

Bhawb.7408:

I’m worried about how to nerf ourselves when appropriate because I don’t trust ANet to do it. I’d rather nerf us, and make sure those nerfs are properly directed, than let ANet Dumbfire us again.

That’s sort of what we did with Dhuumfire though. Everyone started calling it dumbfire (including myself) and saying it was OP with a gazillion ways to “fix” it. The chorus of non-necros and necros alike convinced Anet it was so OP that instead of doing a simple nerf or change, they needed to nerf bleed application across the board to compensate.

Then they eventually decided to move Dhuumfire to LB which no longer warranted the other nerfs that remain to this day.

Dhummfire was broken imo because it lacked any real play, control or counterplay. Not because it was super overpowered DPS in of itself. Many professions we complain about doing condi better than us already had similar traits already. The only thing that was different was that other professions were used to out DPSing Condimancers, not getting condi spiked by us save for terror and Necros were too quick/forceful to call for the nerf bat, causing a consensus that was probably way too bias against Dhuumfire and our condi application compared to reality.

I hope we’re SUPER powerful and they don’t touch us. >.> Just for once, let us be the ONE.

Truefrost.6815:

I hope we’re SUPER powerful and they don’t touch us. >.> Just for once, let us be the ONE.

We have to wait until they give us the Elite Specialization “Warrior” or “Engineer”… O wait.

ronpierce.2760:

On the flip side, I often feel like Necromancers are the most realistic community. I don’t support moving away from that. It’s the reason I love most Necros and I stay away from thieves and Engineers. :P

Necromancers are indeed the most realistic . Give thieves an "I win " mechanic and they will tell you they need it because they are a squishy with no stab . This is the same for guardians and meditations , Engineer and IP etc , Ranger with Longbow + Read the wind , Shoutbows , Elementalist and Water Attunement + Arcana and go on . We are the only one who are screaming for the nerf of our class . We have been meta for 2-3 months in 3 years of game . I don’t know if Reaper is gonna be , but if it is , Necro community must not be one of these peoples screaming for nerfs . People are anticipating reapers bags simply because they are used that the necro is the easy kill / easy target / punching bag and don’t want that rule gone . In minds of people , necro is not and will never be powerful again since dhummfire era . It’s not about if nerfs are needed or not . It’s about defend our class with no objectivity and we should take examples on the thief community for this . They are meta since the start of the game and still if you come with the propositions of justified nerfs they will tell you to L2P and act like victims , and i respect them for that . Let’s not be masochist with our main class .

Yeah my english is terrible

Bhawb.7408:

than let ANet Dumbfire us again.

Balekai.6083:

Then they eventually decided to move Dhuumfire to LB

Remember that it was a player on the forums that gave the devs the idea to put Dhuumfire on LB.

necro needed buffs. stop being scared of being strong. we deserve the long needed changes. same with chronomancers mes needed buffs too. dont think about nerfing anything yet.

1: we havent seen all other classes yet
2: the numbers arent fixed yet
3: necro shall be feared and respected again(and maybe be able to pve a little)

selan.8354:

necro needed buffs. stop being scared of being strong. we deserve the long needed changes. same with chronomancers mes needed buffs too. dont think about nerfing anything yet.

1: we havent seen all other classes yet
2: the numbers arent fixed yet
3: necro shall be feared and respected again(and maybe be able to pve a little)

I agree that core Necro need buff. But having an elite specialization carrying the core specialization is a bad idea.

Necros are far from the only class to ask for nerfs. In fact, I don’t ever remember seeing any necros calling for nerfs. Mesmers, however, are notorious for asking for nerfs to their own class. It is absolutely ridiculous that elitest mesmers hate their own class so much that they they are constantly asking for nerfs. It is like they only want to win fights if the odds are heavily stacked against them. Makes them feel special, I guess.

Aktium.9506:

Bhawb.7408:

than let ANet Dumbfire us again.

Balekai.6083:

Then they eventually decided to move Dhuumfire to LB

Remember that it was a player on the forums that gave the devs the idea to put Dhuumfire on LB.

And at this point, especially with Reaper, it turns out a great idea. I had the idea a long time ago to remove the icd and make it on all LBs so Necros had a legit condi spammer for their core mechanic. I still think it’s great.

The part you’re leaving out is, people wanted it on LB, yes. But they didn’t listen to how and we didn’t ask for all the unreverted nerfs on everything else. If we were buffed back to pre-dhuum on our weapon skills and the new version was in place (again, especially with Reaper) it would have been fine.

The problem is, ANet hates to admit they did something wrong when buffing something, so instead of changing their own implementation, they try to find ways around it by nerfing unrelated things. Then when they realize that didn’t work, they just kill the source of the problem entirely and leave everything else in ruins. Often times I question their sense of intuition. I mean, look at Turrets. I said weeks in advance what would happen if they made them take crits and condis without further changes. But they did it and they destroyed them completely. Them surviving was never the issue! It’s that they were so passive, CC-heavy and damaging for a Tanky build. They had options, but they took the easy way to fix it and now an entire set of utilities are basically unused in the game again.

I wish I had been here for the pre-nerf Dhuumfire days. . . Oh well.

moi.4398:

ronpierce.2760:

On the flip side, I often feel like Necromancers are the most realistic community. I don’t support moving away from that. It’s the reason I love most Necros and I stay away from thieves and Engineers. :P

Necromancers are indeed the most realistic . Give thieves an "I win " mechanic and they will tell you they need it because they are a squishy with no stab . This is the same for guardians and meditations , Engineer and IP etc , Ranger with Longbow + Read the wind , Shoutbows , Elementalist and Water Attunement + Arcana and go on . We are the only one who are screaming for the nerf of our class . We have been meta for 2-3 months in 3 years of game . I don’t know if Reaper is gonna be , but if it is , Necro community must not be one of these peoples screaming for nerfs . People are anticipating reapers bags simply because they are used that the necro is the easy kill / easy target / punching bag and don’t want that rule gone . In minds of people , necro is not and will never be powerful again since dhummfire era . It’s not about if nerfs are needed or not . It’s about defend our class with no objectivity and we should take examples on the thief community for this . They are meta since the start of the game and still if you come with the propositions of justified nerfs they will tell you to L2P and act like victims , and i respect them for that . Let’s not be masochist with our main class .

Yeah my english is terrible

This isn’t true. Not sure why everyone constantly forgets that Engineers themselves do not like having to rely on IP the way they do, do not like the rng mechanic behind it, and have made many valid suggests on how to change IP. Yet for some reasons people are always casting stones at the Engineer over silly little IP, as if it’s the only rng proc in the game.

Looking at all the upcoming changes as a whole, I’m tentatively looking at a PvP build something along the lines of the following.

Traits
Spite: Bitter Chill/Reapers might, Chill of Death, Close to death
Soul Reaping: Speed of shadows, Vital persistence, Death perception
Reaper: Chilling Nova, Chilling Force, Blighters Boon

Weapons
GS
Dag/horn(or staff)

utilities
Consume conditions, Well of Suffering, Nothing can save you/You are all weak, Spec walk, Lich

Equipment
runes of strength
Sigil bloodlust then hydro/might/energy/whatever works best

Berserker? (depends on what happens with the stat points that don’t come from traits anymore)

A lot of this depends on:
How well we can realistically keep chill up
How well we can maintain might
And by extension of the two above, how much sustain blighters and chilling force can realistically provide.

For example, bitter chill is only good if we’re able to successfully apply lots of chill, where as reaper’s might would be more useful for reliable and long uptime might.

Being purely melee makes kiting a big isssue so I could very well end up using staff, but I feel that dag/horn will go rather well with reaper. If I focus purely on team fights, then team mates can help make up for the lack of range.

Vital persistence + speed of shadows maintains reasonable mobility even when swiftness is down, and also lets you spam charge a lot. If the cleave from unyielding blast translates to something useful for RS though, I might use that.

If horn + speed of shadows provides enough mobility, I could tentatively use You are all Weak over spec walk, for double shouts, which would then make Augury a more attractive option for spammable stun break/might burst (good for WoS), and plentiful unblockable. The lack of Chilling Nova would hurt my ability to apply chill significantly however, which has serious knock on effects due to Chilling Force, Blighters and Bitter Chill, so on top of the loss of mobility from no spec walk, probably won’t be worth it.

Having both WoS + NCSY makes you pretty good at bunker busting, but no matter how you look at it, Reaper has significant issues dealing with:
Mobility
Ranged attacks
Condi cleanse

All three can be managed with a decent team comp, but it’s not going to be terrible useful in 1v1, and it comes back to the age old question: Even if it can work, is it worth taking over class/build X?

Basically, Reaper has a fair few options when it comes to build, and it will have a role to play, but it’s balanced by pretty significant weaknesses that need to be played around and managed, so I can’t possible see it as OP, at this point.