Guild Wars 2

forum bug 15/char

Thinking more about the changes – I am happy. I think they did a good job. I think the major blunder was not leaving terror at grandmaster and moving any of the other 3 traits down to master. Other than that. Its a good patch for us. Not in terms of being OP. We dont play necro to be OP because we never will be. But there are some new interesting specs with some fun synergy.

The changes will put us in a better place overall I think, but it was not nearly as overwhelmingly positive as what I saw on other classes in the stream.

Some things I feel should have been addressed, but weren’t:

• We are still starved of combo finishers.

• Axe is still horrible.

• Dark Path remains slow and unreliable for closing gaps.

• Still got no way to block projectiles.

• We are going to get knocked around like a ping pong ball just like before because of no stability or other ways to deal with CC.

Some changes we got just seemed completely unwarranted:

• Straight up nerf to Consume Conditions. This already had a really long cast time and was easy to interrupt. Why they decided to increase the cooldown and make it apply vuln is beyond me.

• Our two most viable elite skills got nerfed. Lich Form only lasts for a measly 15 seconds, and Plague form inflicts conditions on us.

• And the by far most gutting change for me: You can’t Spectral Walk in mid-air. Way to ruin the most fun necro skill.

Just some good things to highlight as well, not to only focus on the bad:

• Siphoning through shroud. Great change that we’ve been wanting for a long time.

• Blood is Power shares might with allies.

• Staff got buffed.

• Our signets had their cooldowns reduced.

• Longer range on focus.

• Wells ground target by default.

I would also like to comment on some traits. I think the traits in general were pretty good. Still some underwhelming ones, but a lot of good things to choose from. Not going to comment on all of them, but just some traits that stood out to me:

• I like all the minor traits in Spite, they seem really impactful.

• Axe still sucks, but it looks like the 10% damage modifier on Axe Training (Spite Master) is only dependant on vuln, but not dependant on having an axe equipped.

• Signets of Suffering (Spite GM) looks really interesting now with the added boon-hate, and synergises well with some other traits that activate signets.

• Weakening Shroud (Curses GM) looks pretty decent. The Enfeeble it casts is identical to the dagger skill, but does not seem to be connected to the dagger trait, and no ICD is mentioned. If this is the case, and it’s connected to shroud cooldown it’s actually quite powerful.

• Corrupter’s Fervor (Death Magic GM) looks good. Nice way to add some tankiness to condi builds, and it even protects against conditions as well as direct damage.

• Vampiric Presence (Blood Magic Master) finally gives us a way to share our siphons with other players. Hopefully it’s strong enough to make a noticable difference to a party’s damage and sustain.

• Last Rites (Blood Magic Minor GM) can be really impactful, especially combined with Transfusion (Blood Magic GM) that now teleports and heals downed allies close to you. Could become a big thing in WvW and PvP.

• Foot in the Grave (Soul Reaping GM) still seems a bit weak. Considering the engineer Juggernaught trait I don’t think pulsing stability would be too much to ask. We could at the very least get a long enough duration on it to reliably safestomp without needing extra boon duration.

• Dhuumfire (Soul Reaping GM) just looks downright weak with only 1 stack of burning for 3 seconds. That’s 2 stacks of maintained burning while doing nothing else than camping Life Blast.

I think we will be stronger overall, but I really hope we can get some of the things I pointed out in the start addressed.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Thinking more about the changes – I am happy. I think they did a good job. I think the major blunder was not leaving terror at grandmaster and moving any of the other 3 traits down to master. Other than that. Its a good patch for us. Not in terms of being OP. We dont play necro to be OP because we never will be. But there are some new interesting specs with some fun synergy.

That’s the spirit. Now what is this fun synergy you speak of?

Balekai pulls out a strange toy nerf hammer out of his pocket, dropping a key chain on the floor in the process. It reads something you can’t make out: “Ar——et Ag-nt” or something…

Tim.6450:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lightsbane.9012:

the dagger trait would be good without the health threshold. I mean what the kitten is that? I can’t imagine a circumstance where i’d use life siphon above 75% hp.

I’m fine with the health threshold, but we get the benefit on the wrong side of it.

Unles you are thinking for dagger ofhand than it is hundred percent the right side also aren’t channel cooldowns applied after the channel when you have have used the skill (in this case healed).

No, it is one hundred percent on the wrong side.

Why would you be using a strong healing skill when you’re high on health? Especially since that negates synergy with Last Rites? Best time to use Deathly Swarm is when you’re had a few conditions loaded onto you, in which case you’re not likely to still be above 75%.

Enfeebling Blood and Dark Pact don’t care what health you are at, but Dagger 2 and 4 are used most when you are below that threshold.

I think you guys are really sleeping on the bigger picture here. Minion mancer reaper is going to l be unbelievably tanky and impossible to kill

Absolutely, Reaper MM will be hilarious, but we won’t see it yet.

Azure.8670:

I think you guys are really sleeping on the bigger picture here. Minion mancer reaper is going to l be unbelievably tanky and impossible to kill

Well, not impossible, it’s called Moa/Elixir. :P

ronpierce.2760:

Azure.8670:

I think you guys are really sleeping on the bigger picture here. Minion mancer reaper is going to l be unbelievably tanky and impossible to kill

Well, not impossible, it’s called Moa/Elixir. :P

Ahem

Signet of Humility/Elixer :p

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ronpierce.2760:

Azure.8670:

I think you guys are really sleeping on the bigger picture here. Minion mancer reaper is going to l be unbelievably tanky and impossible to kill

Well, not impossible, it’s called Moa/Elixir. :P

Ahem

Signet of Humility/Elixer :p

Ah, how humiliating. You’re absolutely right. >_>

These Last Few Posts Were Genius lol

I think the one thing that stuck out to me most was Consume Conditions and that change; while I can get the change, I mean… CONSUME conditions. It takes away the conditions; shouldn’t apply anything else. That vulnerability can hurt if it’s used properly…

Other than that, nothing has popped out to me… yet…

If shelter remained a type-less skill, why couldn’t consume conditions? Now it has a condition shoehorned into it to make a corruption, and the cooldown is a nerf to people who aren’t using the trait. With the trait, the cooldown just goes back to where it was. And taking the corruption trait means no more PoC or Terror.

Oy…

I’m kinda bent on the whole issue. I like how Staff got a major buff, Focus skills are now baseline, which is good as well. Axe still sucks for some reason. I think everyone’s issue is how Lich form and Plague are taking a hit. Lich form…meh, I didn’t use it much, and it was pretty powerful even when it was at a 30sec duration especially with power builds. I do have an issue with Plague though. Pulsing bleeds. Really? In PvE I don’t see this as much of a problem, but PvP it’s punishing the player for using elites. And tell me why are we being punished for using a heal skill [Consume Conditions] that, you know, CLEARS CONDIOTIONS?!

MM is gonna be ridiculous after this patch, let alone when we get reaper

death magic gives access to tons of survivability between armored shroud, beyond the veil, flesh of the master, necromantic corruption, and corruptor’s fervor.

blood magic is gonna give access to a lot of health recovery (even without healing power investment) through vampiric, last rites, vampiric presence (will this work on minions if no players are around? If so, does the health they siphon through this trait go to you or the minions?), unholy martyr or transfusion (both are great choices)

Spite, for now, will give you tons of ways to keep the enemy locked down and boonless through the focus and axe cooldown reductions and spiteful spirit. Also

REAPER’S MIGHT IS A MINOR WHAT?

Beyond this, the change to the two elites makes sense since they now benefit from the traits affecting their respective categorizations now. lich form was already really strong, let alone with the duration increase and cooldown reduction.

Consume conditions will probably be very strong with the corruption skills affecting it, we will see though.

Blood magic seems really interesting. Blood bond gets my vote for one of the most interesting traits.

Our goto condi remove has been gutted but that is about time. We got some decent new options (curses trait, Shrouded Removal), stronger staff skills, lower cd signets but i am still unsure how this will work out(for power).

I’m so disappointed by some of those changes.
I’ll write up something longer later but for now let’s adress the big one: Curses.
What the hell did they do to Curses??
Consume Conditions is nerfed, it’s not like this skill didn’t need a buff in the first place, but now the only way to make it have a decent cooldown is to pick Master of Corruption. Where is this trait? In the same tier as Terror and Path of Corruption! What?!
So not only will there no longer be builds with Terror and Path of Corruption, but if you want a proper healing skill you actually can’t have either of those traits.

Looks like they want to delete Necros and only have Reapers, while also forgetting Reapers will suck because base Necro is now even worse of than before. GG Anet, GG.

Not full impressions, but I think many people are missing a fairly large necromancer buff:

• Vigor: Decreased the endurance regeneration rate from 100% to 50%.

Given necromancer has no vigor and every other class does… the field is closer to level. A bunch of other endurance boosts were reduced too!

some of the changes seem pretty good but…
is it true they’re getting rid of our necro bungie cord? “spectral walk: this skill can no longer be activated while in mid-air”
this can’t be… I’m just gonna cry… i love that skill…

I’m saddened by the Consume Conditions (completely uncalled for) and Spectral Walk (;_;) nerfs, most of the other changes seem pretty good though.
I hope the buffs to Blood Magic (and siphon during Shroud) will improve our sustain significantly and I’m pretty sure Wellomancers are gonna enjoy the aforementioned traitline.

Did anyone notice how Barbed Precision says 33% chance now instead of 66%?
I really hope this is just a typo.

I’m not proud of the boon hate being kitten single target while AoE boon and cleansing are still on rampage, Curses is mess now I’m surprised they didn’t chose my ideas on it’s traits. Lack of weapon changes especially scepter/axe was a let down as well just like no core improvements.

Blood is Power: This skill now applies 8 stacks of might for 8 seconds to nearby allies.

So we don’t give ourselves Might anymore?

Well condition necro just got completely destroyed. Not even sure it is worth playing anymore.

1. Lingering curses back to how it was, means Dumbfire is even more useless than before, and we lose 30% duration from traits, nerfing us even further
2. Consume conditions is now the only heal in the game that hurts you instead of helping you
3. Epidemic nerfed to 20s CD meaning condition necros can no longer reliably AOE.
4. Barbed precision nerfed from 66% to 33%, meaning we lose the ability to stack bleeds past ~20 now, basically rendering the condition changes moot.
5. Can’t take terror even at master level because we need to take master of corruption if we want to even be playable.
6. dumbfire is so useless now it shouldn’t even be a minor trait let alone a grandmaster.

I don’t get it, necro was already bottom tier, every other class got HUGE buffs to all their skills and they decide necros needed big nerfs instead? I think Anet just gave up and wants us to stop playing necros.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well condition necro just got completely destroyed. Not even sure it is worth playing anymore.

1. Lingering curses back to how it was, means Dumbfire is even more useless than before, and we lose 30% duration from traits, nerfing us even further
2. Consume conditions is now the only heal in the game that hurts you instead of helping you
3. Epidemic nerfed to 20s CD meaning condition necros can no longer reliably AOE.
4. Barbed precision nerfed from 66% to 33%, meaning we lose the ability to stack bleeds past ~20 now, basically rendering the condition changes moot.
5. Can’t take terror even at master level because we need to take master of corruption if we want to even be playable.
6. dumbfire is so useless now it shouldn’t even be a minor trait let alone a grandmaster.

I completely agree.
Except in case of Dhuumfire they might be prepping this as a condi option for Reaper’s Shroud which has a quicker and cleaving auto attack.
Then again, even with a condi build you’ll probably get more damage with Deathly Perception instead.

One thing that might have helped the whole Curses situation is if Terror was merged with a minor trait. If only someone suggested this during the time they gathered feedback from the forums. Oh wait, we all suggested this a million times! Except the ones who thought it would be too strong if you could couple it with a general 100% condi duration buff from Lingering Curse. But now LC doesn’t increase all condis anyway, so there really is no reason why Terror shouldn’t be an auto-unlock by picking the condi specialization.

I didnt properly read the axe training change. But that trait is actually decent now. 10% damage to vuln foes means we can use it on non axe builds to get a potent extra damage modifier. Its decent compensation for the loss of old target the weak.

BiP change is nice. But the nerfed might duration and stacks and no mention of cooldown reduction bothers me quite a bit. The baseline buffs are nice. The Lich form nerf is stupid. It encourages us to use the other non auto attack skills even less because we have very little time inside Lich Form.

Making consume and plague corruptions and nerfing them is also really annoying. If i had a free transfer I wouldnt mind the consume conditions version though. Spectral walk nerf is really annoying but i suspect its to stop map abuse in HoT. Much like the movement skill changes.

The spite line is much much better. The choices are still decent but i know what i want for each build now (thanks to reapers might moving to minor). Im still a little unhappy with spiteful spirit though.

Curses is much better for condi’s and it certainly has use for a utility based (debuff) power build. It just wont be a standard pick for power builds anymore.

Death magic seems like they listened so now we actually have decent choices for stuff other than minions in that line.

Blood magic is still not great. It seems like anet thinks support is purely ressing allies. I dont like that vampiric presence and banshees wail compete. Id like to see banshees wail swap with either blood bond or quickening thirst.

Soul reaping is basically the same. Thats fine i guess. Still think strength of undeath should be 10% instead of 5% damage.

Seriously, the devs need to PLAY this class and see how it is to USE these skills in pvp, not face them on their precious engineers, eles, thieves, and guardians. I swear they design inherent weaknesses in the necro class so that we are weaker when facing their baby classes. Kitten this crap design. The bias is over freaking whelming!!!

Sagat.3285:

EremiteAngel.9765:

imagine pairing up shroud 4’s teleport of downed allies to you with signet of undeath aoe ress 3 of them.

That’s a perfect scenario case. You would actually slot that skill O.o?

It also generates Life Force in Combat, so it could be worse.

I might be missing something, but these changes look kind of awesome. Can’t wait for next week to play around them and see what I’ll stick to.

I can kind of understand why people are kittened off at some of the changes (Consume Conditions, looking at you), but this way, you have more incentive to build in a specific way and maybe even look for alternatives. Considering I’ve been running with Consume Conditions since I started out and haven’t looked back since.

Personal cherry on the top is this: Siphoned Power: Striking a foe below 50% health grants 2 stacks for might for 10 seconds. (1s ICD) – considering how long I felt that the minor traits in Spite were just there as placeholders.

Change is always difficult, but hey, at least we have it now, considering how long we’ve been sitting on top of the same steaming pile. Will just have to try it out and make the best of it.

NapTooN.6283:

Sagat.3285:

EremiteAngel.9765:

imagine pairing up shroud 4’s teleport of downed allies to you with signet of undeath aoe ress 3 of them.

That’s a perfect scenario case. You would actually slot that skill O.o?

It also generates Life Force in Combat, so it could be worse.

That’s another perfect scenario case necro is already number one target because there is no reason not too I guess slapping a tank amulet on you can help.

Alizakill.2157:

some of the changes seem pretty good but…
is it true they’re getting rid of our necro bungie cord? “spectral walk: this skill can no longer be activated while in mid-air” is what i heard.
if it’s true I’m just gonna cry… i love that skill…

they only talked about “walk” not about the “return” skill. So it is possible that you can still bungie back up as long as you activated it before you jumped

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

spoj.9672:

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

Ofcourse we can’t. We are designed to be at the combat! This is a trick to get to downstate faster.

samulihei.1952:

spoj.9672:

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

Ofcourse we can’t. We are designed to be at the combat! This is a trick to get to downstate faster.

But they are nerfing downstate damage :/

spoj.9672:

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

That’s a great point. Horrible change but a great point.

spoj.9672:

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

Well not at all if you think about it. CoCo puts you in Fake Combat (no Enemy around and Vul does not deal Damage to you) which means that your Signet of Undeath for example starts generating Lifeforce. I am pretty sure they are other ways to exploit the Fake Combat CoCo puts you into.

Question: Are we certain the additional conditions we see mentioned on each corruption skill aren’t simply the ones we get if we get the trait to reduce their cooldown?

Atherakhia.4086:

Question: Are we certain the additional conditions we see mentioned on each corruption skill aren’t simply the ones we get if we get the trait to reduce their cooldown?

Other than vuln on CC yes the trait adds additional self conditions but CC seems to be balanced around it. I was planning on using MoC but now nah I don’t see the worthy reward,

Atherakhia.4086:

Question: Are we certain the additional conditions we see mentioned on each corruption skill aren’t simply the ones we get if we get the trait to reduce their cooldown?

As Corruption skills have self-conditions as “baseline” (right now) and the trait says
“Master of Corruption: Reduces recharge of corruption skills by 33% but causes corruption skills to apply additional conditions to you when cast. (Condition applied varies per skill.)”,
I’m pretty sure it’s another type of self-condition as a gift to help you to get to your desired destination (downed state) faster.
And I couldn’t find any source saying that they’ll remove the “baseline” self-condition.

I used to play necro for more than a year as main class. From update to update first thing I check are necro changes. I’m looking forward for some nice improvements for the class, but nah. I’m going to free 1 slot for revenant if there won’t be a free one with expansion.
Edit
Axe training +10% dmg when striking vulnerable foes doesn’t mean all weapons. Descriptions are not complete and things are not clarified, as always.
See: Lightning Rod: Disabling an enemy causes them to be struck by a lightning bolt. no more weakness? Doesn’t say.
Look at mortar: we saw skill descriptions in video, but descriptions on forums look like “they are not final”™. No info how AoEs are big, no durations. There is a lot of such bad descriptions.
And finally it would be stupid to benefit 10% dmg always from trait connected with specific weapon.

i told you guys that we should kitten more coz when we don’t we get this kitten. all you Necros feeling like we got buffed are right is the VERY loosest form of the word, but only if the Necro was the only profession in the game. relative to other profession though, Necros got the shaft when they needed to actually be buffed the most and i am sure the devs are thanking Twitch’s crashes yesterday because we know if they did the Necro changes on the livestream the uproar would have been EPIC.

with every change the devs makes about the Necro, except for the Reaper, i feel that they are obviously not making these changes with me in mind. i am just glad that i got to see these changes before the pre-purchase of HoT because now all enthusiasm i had for the expansion is gone. which is so sad as i have over 9k hours in this game and 5k are just on my Necro. /sigh

flow.6043:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well condition necro just got completely destroyed. Not even sure it is worth playing anymore.

1. Lingering curses back to how it was, means Dumbfire is even more useless than before, and we lose 30% duration from traits, nerfing us even further
2. Consume conditions is now the only heal in the game that hurts you instead of helping you
3. Epidemic nerfed to 20s CD meaning condition necros can no longer reliably AOE.
4. Barbed precision nerfed from 66% to 33%, meaning we lose the ability to stack bleeds past ~20 now, basically rendering the condition changes moot.
5. Can’t take terror even at master level because we need to take master of corruption if we want to even be playable.
6. dumbfire is so useless now it shouldn’t even be a minor trait let alone a grandmaster.

I completely agree.
Except in case of Dhuumfire they might be prepping this as a condi option for Reaper’s Shroud which has a quicker and cleaving auto attack.
Then again, even with a condi build you’ll probably get more damage with Deathly Perception instead.

One thing that might have helped the whole Curses situation is if Terror was merged with a minor trait. If only someone suggested this during the time they gathered feedback from the forums. Oh wait, we all suggested this a million times! Except the ones who thought it would be too strong if you could couple it with a general 100% condi duration buff from Lingering Curse. But now LC doesn’t increase all condis anyway, so there really is no reason why Terror shouldn’t be an auto-unlock by picking the condi specialization.

You now have to take master of corruption on every single necro build. It is mandatory even if you don’t want anything else in that line. Our sustain will simply be too low without it. And all the other necro heals are just flat out bad.

As you said this is terrible news for power necros. Power necro has already been hit by the condition changes, their conditions will no longer help them out. But they they have to choose between an unbelievably bad heal or going into curses which they probably dont want to go into.

As for condi necro. Again it is mandatory to take the corruption trait. So then you cant take terror OR path of corruption. This is huge. If only 1 of those traits was swapped with ANY of the GM traits (which are all useless more or less for a condi necro).

I think if terror is swapped with parastic contigian and CC has a base cd reduced to 25s with the trait reducing corruption skills by 25% instead of 33% then we actually have some decent specs.

Heals are so important in pvp and wvw. We only have 1 good heal. Nerfing it so severely is going to destroy many builds. Completely destroy them.

The changes are locked in now and anet do not balance more than once every 6 or so months. So I think there is sadly little hope for the future.

Personally I am happy just because some stuff changed. I dont care about being OP. I just want to try new stuff. Even if necro, or condi necro, is the worst class and spec in the game then I will make it work.

I spent my free time at work looking over the necromancer changes and I just kept getting more and more angry as time went on. Anet did put some thoughtful changes with death and blood magic, but then kittening hammered us back down with stupid kitten like the consume condition nerf.

And that is what it is, a straight up nerf. It forces us to take Master of Corruption for a skill that already had counterplay. Taking Master of Corruption then forces us to give up Terror. Giving up Terror forces us to take Reaper because Dhuumfire is garbage without it and we will need Deathly Chill. For the love of grenth anet please switch Terror and Parasitic contagion.

I know I sound bitter in this post and I am sorry, but I think it is warranted.

Ashur.6403:

I spent my free time at work looking over the necromancer changes and I just kept getting more and more angry as time went on. Anet did put some thoughtful changes with death and blood magic, but then kittening hammered us back down with stupid kitten like the consume condition nerf.

And that is what it is, a straight up nerf. It forces us to take Master of Corruption for a skill that already had counterplay. Taking Master of Corruption then forces us to give up Terror. Giving up Terror forces us to take Reaper because Dhuumfire is garbage without it and we will need Deathly Chill. For the love of grenth anet please switch Terror and Parasitic contagion.

I know I sound bitter in this post and I am sorry, but I think it is warranted.

Yeh, it kills build diversity completely.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Ashur.6403:

I spent my free time at work looking over the necromancer changes and I just kept getting more and more angry as time went on. Anet did put some thoughtful changes with death and blood magic, but then kittening hammered us back down with stupid kitten like the consume condition nerf.

And that is what it is, a straight up nerf. It forces us to take Master of Corruption for a skill that already had counterplay. Taking Master of Corruption then forces us to give up Terror. Giving up Terror forces us to take Reaper because Dhuumfire is garbage without it and we will need Deathly Chill. For the love of grenth anet please switch Terror and Parasitic contagion.

I know I sound bitter in this post and I am sorry, but I think it is warranted.

Yeh, it kills build diversity completely.

Nope! How do you make crappy heals look more attractive? Nerf the only good one. Bam! All heals are equal!

On the wind of changes maybey someone think about add new weapons pls? Like spear as mele twohanded weapon and maybey some irrational thinking : give us choose weapon skills?

Silmariena.6205:

On the wind of changes maybey someone think about add new weapons pls? Like spear as mele twohanded weapon and maybey some irrational thinking : give us choose weapon skills?

Check Dulfy.net the necromancer specialization Reaper is able to equip a 2-Handed Greatsword.

Yep i know and it’s my nightmare…

I’m going spite/curses. Blood power build. Won’t be taking consume conditions or master of corruption’s. I don’t see it as mandatory at all.