Guild Wars 2

NapTooN.6283:

spoj.9672:

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

Well not at all if you think about it. CoCo puts you in Fake Combat (no Enemy around and Vul does not deal Damage to you) which means that your Signet of Undeath for example starts generating Lifeforce. I am pretty sure they are other ways to exploit the Fake Combat CoCo puts you into.

Non damaging conditions dont put you into combat if you are already out of it. But they do prevent you from leaving combat.

Theres no such thing as fake combat. Your either in combat or your not. Taking fall damage puts you in combat briefly but that doesnt require enemies around.

spoj.9672:

NapTooN.6283:

spoj.9672:

Also does the consume conditions change mean we wont be able to use it to cleanse conditions and get out of combat anymore? This sucks major kittens.

Well not at all if you think about it. CoCo puts you in Fake Combat (no Enemy around and Vul does not deal Damage to you) which means that your Signet of Undeath for example starts generating Lifeforce. I am pretty sure they are other ways to exploit the Fake Combat CoCo puts you into.

Non damaging conditions dont put you into combat if you are already out of it. But they do prevent you from leaving combat.

Theres no such thing as fake combat. Your either in combat or your not. Taking fall damage puts you in combat briefly but that doesnt require enemies around.

So if MoC adds a Condition with damage, we could still simulate combat whenever we want without having the Need to jump down a cliff.

I dont see how thats relevant to what im saying. Im simply saying we can no longer cleanse and get out of combat with consume conditions. Because we will already be in combat when we want to cleanse. And the vuln applied will keep us in combat until it runs out.

This is an annoying QoL nerf. It means after killing a group of enemies/boss that applied conditions to us we can no longer get out of combat immediately by just cleansing with our heal.

They butchered Condition Necromancer with Curses traitline changes.
They increased our self-condi application without giving us anything like Plague Blast. Vulherability on CC use is now significant harm and too short duration to be worth transfering.
They gave us a proc transfer. Yes, that’s right, a kittening proc on crit. Apply any 3 conditions to Necromancer now, may be 1 stack of bleeding, 3 seconds of cripple and 1 stack of Vulnerability, I will burn my transfer with next hit because I have no control over it. Even better, since we have many AoEs, I can even transfer it to some kittenty clone or pet.
Dhuumfire is not worth using again. Without last preview version Lingering Curse, it’s a pitiful, miserable burn on obvious long cast time skill which will drop before second stack is applied in PvP.
No changes to weaponsets. GG. Oh, besides nerfing Mark of Blood in PvE, because it was dominant in dungeons.
You nerf Barbaric Precision by a half. Excuse me?
Consume Conditions now puts you into combat whenever you use it. I guess our OOC mobility was too much.
You effecitvely made Path of Corruption, best trait you’ve given Necromancer since 2013, useless, same as Terror, because now we have to pick Master of Corruption to have any healing skill.
Soul Comprahension trait. I won’t even start…
Because we’re now being balanced around having Precision gear, you nerf us in WvW with this, since we need Dire gear to survive. Oh, and you also push Rabid Amulet in PvP, despite buffing conditions overall (Vitality more desireable) and Carrion being currently the go-to Condimancer amulet due to having some power and scalling with Shroud mechanic. And to make Rabid even more balanced, it sucks more with Barbed Precision.
Rending Claws (Axe 1) is useless. Still. After 3 years.
Feast of Corruption (Scepter 3) is still an amazing Power skill slapped onto Condition-only weapon. It still generates pitiful amount of Life Force for it’s landing in PvP and applies no condition whatsoever, having astonishing synergy with even buffed Lingering Curse, which now increases condi duration of scepter skills by 100%! That’s whole 0% for FoC! Sounds great.
Putrid Mark (Staff 4) remains our only semi-reliable Blast Finisher. And didn’t get ally condition cleanse back, becahse reasons.
Life Siphon (Dagger 2) still has nearly 4 second cast time and 600 range. Shorten cast time, like you did with Rapid Fire? Nah, let it barely outheal Reataliation damage taken by those 9 hits.
Spinal Shivers (Focus 5) still with brilliant cast time and visible animation, so everybody can dodge it or kill Necromancer before he finishes that very skillful cast. You truly did your job making it viable here, thanks Arena Net.
Good job making Mark of Evasion a Downstate Magic (renamed from Blood Magic) minor. Now every time you dodge trying to avoid combat mode while running in PvE or anywhere else, mobs will trigger it and slow you down.
By the way, thanks for all the scalling defenses, blocks, evades and projectile reflects we get in the next patch! Godlike effort!
Now our allies can taste our Siphoning, too. Just make sure you have fast-hitting weapon, because 50 hp siphon every Hammer swing isn’t optimal. You know, Siphons still work only with multiple hits per second. Because Necromancer attacks quickly.
Fun thing: Our rezzes actually don’t rezz. And our amazing 4 seconds cast time Rezz on Signet-nobody-uses now does damage in the area!. Poke those stompers for 500 damage, let them feel our wrath! And put you into combat, by the way.
You nerf our only heal with a change that is a harsh punishment for healing under pressure and we’re still stuck with same PvP utilities, but now with even less build variety.
Finally, Parasitic Contagion, trait I was most excited about, got 33% nerf, hasn’t moved and you obviously balanced it around max potential with Epidemic.Guess what, balancing it around max potential is a reason why this trait absolutely kittening sucks on live servers in the first place.
Oh, and our Life Force generation remains the same. We have way TOO MUCH of it already, especially Condition Necromancer.
By the way, I agree with you, having any Life Force at start of PvP match would make us broken OP. Good thing we start with no profession mechanic and only defense, then
And we have a week to give you feedback while 70% of your changes would have to be changed and new ones introduced, fixing our weaponsets.
Oh, and guess what? These changes fix absolutely NOTHING for PvP and PvE, after 3 years.
Good job, bravo. It would’ve been a challenge to kitten it up even harder.

DISCLAIMER, NOT MY POST. But there’s a ton of validity to it.

i must ask in suppot if they delete necro from game if they can release HoT faster

Well, well…

Personnally, I think it’s not so bad. BiP changes were long awaited, Signet of suffering with it’s corrupt boon part is the best surprise out there. CC traited being a 20s cool down heal is awesome, the fact that it apply vuln is a minor inconvenient at best.

I think there is a difficult competition in blood magic between WH and vampiric presence. If transfusion may look interesting, I think it won’t be a good thing to use in PvP or WvW since you will just make things easier for any foe with aoe (I wonder if downed will be dragued behind the necromancer as long as he move… It could be really funny)

Death magic as well have an interesting newcomer, Corruptor’s fervor , which seem pretty strong (especially in this second age of upcoming condition meta : Yeah I think they’ve gone to far with burn here)

Curse remain pityfully unoriginal in it’s heavy condition’s focus and Soul reaping remain pretty solid (which is a good thing)

What sadden me is just that they still keep DS in this sorry state that won’t be able to compete with the shinny RS.

NB : I pretty think that signets may become a thing with this update

Lordrosicky.5813:

As for condi necro. Again it is mandatory to take the corruption trait. So then you cant take terror OR path of corruption. This is huge. If only 1 of those traits was swapped with ANY of the GM traits (which are all useless more or less for a condi necro).

I think if terror is swapped with parastic contigian and CC has a base cd reduced to 25s with the trait reducing corruption skills by 25% instead of 33% then we actually have some decent specs.

Since the changes were announced I’ve been mostly thinking about 2 things:

1. How am I going to change my build? Because atm I would need 4 specs to get the same traits I have now.

2. How much do I really need Terror?
At this point we don’t even have to talk about Path of Corruption anymore, this trait is just dead. No one will ever use this again.
The real choice you have to make now is: fear does damage vs having a usable healing skill.
Just pathetic, we gave so much feedback on Curses, and while they listened to some of it and changed a lot, I’m not sure this version isn’t actually worse than what we’ve seen in the last preview.

ronpierce.2760:

Nope! How do you make crappy heals look more attractive? Nerf the only good one. Bam! All heals are equal!

The sad thing is, Consume Conditions would still be our best heal if its cd was 40 seconds. Our other healing skills just suck monkey balls so hard that it’s just no contest at all, and now they created a situation where the only way to make Consume usable is to take a trait that will automatically exclude 2 of the current meta traits from ever being used again.

Curses in its current state works for giving the option of a debuffer role (power/hybrid/condi). Chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

I do think the curses line has improved quite a bit from the last version. I also no longer feel any need to spec into it for a pure damage build. That can be looked at as both a positive and a negative.

For power builds its going to be Spite and Soul reaping and then blood magic for damage and support. With the option to swap blood to curses for debuff support.

flow.6043:

Lordrosicky.5813:

As for condi necro. Again it is mandatory to take the corruption trait. So then you cant take terror OR path of corruption. This is huge. If only 1 of those traits was swapped with ANY of the GM traits (which are all useless more or less for a condi necro).

I think if terror is swapped with parastic contigian and CC has a base cd reduced to 25s with the trait reducing corruption skills by 25% instead of 33% then we actually have some decent specs.

Since the changes were announced I’ve been mostly thinking about 2 things:

1. How am I going to change my build? Because atm I would need 4 specs to get the same traits I have now.

2. How much do I really need Terror?
At this point we don’t even have to talk about Path of Corruption anymore, this trait is just dead. No one will ever use this again.
The real choice you have to make now is: fear does damage vs having a usable healing skill.
Just pathetic, we gave so much feedback on Curses, and while they listened to some of it and changed a lot, I’m not sure this version isn’t actually worse than what we’ve seen in the last preview.

ronpierce.2760:

Nope! How do you make crappy heals look more attractive? Nerf the only good one. Bam! All heals are equal!

The sad thing is, Consume Conditions would still be our best heal if its cd was 40 seconds. Our other healing skills just suck monkey balls so hard that it’s just no contest at all, and now they created a situation where the only way to make Consume usable is to take a trait that will automatically exclude 2 of the current meta traits from ever being used again.

The current version is worse than before. That is for sure. It was bad before, but worse now.

As for terror. I think you have to run it. I have gone back and forth on this. But you really do just have to run it. Otherwise no kills will be made ever. So we basically move out of this with a 30s heal instead of a 25s one. A pretty huge nerf as it nerfs every necro spec in the game by alot. heals are so important.

Consume Conditions is now the only heal in the game that forces you to stay in combat.
Consume Conditions is now the only heal in the game with a negative effect attached it.

Plague is the only elite in the game that forces you to stay in combat.
Plague is the only elite in the game that has a negative effect attached to it.
Plague is the only elite in the game that straight up damages you.

The vulnerability and bleed are based on your condition duration and condition damage. That means Consume Conditions could keep you in combat for up to an additional 8 seconds if you’re using a setup that has long condition duration (say, one that makes use of Chill + Bleed for the incoming Reaper spec). If you Consume Conditions and then use Plague, you could be hitting yourself for as much as 800 damage a second with the Condi changes. Now there is ONE trait that works on CRITS that helps alleviate the problem. But you need to pick up that trait AND you need to crit AND it has a long ICD. So you pretty much to be wearing Precision gear and pick up a trait to make change these awful nerfs into a slight positive once every 30 seconds. I personally want to hear the justifications for this from Anet’s Necro guy, because right now, any way I look at it, this is a major nerf and a major step backwards for the game in general.

Zaroua.2714:

Consume Conditions is now the only heal in the game that forces you to stay in combat.
Consume Conditions is now the only heal in the game with a negative effect attached it.

Plague is the only elite in the game that forces you to stay in combat.
Plague is the only elite in the game that has a negative effect attached to it.
Plague is the only elite in the game that straight up damages you.

The vulnerability and bleed are based on your condition duration and condition damage. That means Consume Conditions could keep you in combat for up to an additional 8 seconds if you’re using a setup that has long condition duration (say, one that makes use of Chill + Bleed for the incoming Reaper spec). If you Consume Conditions and then use Plague, you could be hitting yourself for as much as 800 damage a second with the Condi changes. Now there is ONE trait that works on CRITS that helps alleviate the problem. But you need to pick up that trait AND you need to crit AND it has a long ICD. So you pretty much to be wearing Precision gear and pick up a trait to make change these awful nerfs into a slight positive once every 30 seconds. I personally want to hear the justifications for this from Anet’s Necro guy, because right now, any way I look at it, this is a major nerf and a major step backwards for the game in general.

All a matter of perspective. I’d argue Consume conditions and Plague both help you leave combat much faster AND you gain an instant-cast no cooldown teleport that teleports you anywhere in the world. (To your spawn point in tPVP, so not quite as powerful there, probably for balance reasons.)

#Perspective

Yea I’m in the same boat, only builds that use master of corruption (curses master trait) are any good. I lean toward spectral usually but nerfing consume heal is forcing my hand. The 25 seconds seems long sometimes, cant imagine pushing it back further.

At least with master of corruption it will be 24 sec.

ronpierce.2760:

All a matter of perspective. I’d argue Consume conditions and Plague both help you leave combat much faster AND you gain an instant-cast no cooldown teleport that teleports you anywhere in the world. (To your spawn point in tPVP, so not quite as powerful there, probably for balance reasons.)

#Perspective

Agreed, they help you to reach your optimal DPS setup faster, your downed state.
You are a necromancer, you should be able to kill while you’re dead!

Lordrosicky.5813:

As for terror. I think you have to run it. I have gone back and forth on this. But you really do just have to run it. Otherwise no kills will be made ever. So we basically move out of this with a 30s heal instead of a 25s one. A pretty huge nerf as it nerfs every necro spec in the game by alot. heals are so important.

You might be right.

Also, switching Terror with Parasitic Contagion wouldn’t solve the situation at all. Weakening Shroud is now a grandmaster trait, and I suppose some people would still like to use Lingering Curse in condi builds, so having Terror matched up against those two would be just as horrible.
And Terror just isn’t that strong. I really don’t understand why this shouldn’t be merged with a minor trait. It’s just that little edge you need to push your damage here and there to be viable, and since it’s just a trademark trait of any condi necro I don’t see how this shouldn’t just be an automatic unlock if you pick a condition centered specialization.

Also, the adept traits in Curses basically make you choose Plague Sending until Reaper comes out when people will consider taking Chilling Darkness instead. No one is going to take the falling damage trait. But in that case, would Chilling Darkness really have to stay in adept tier?

What if we had this setup instead:

• Terror merged with Furious Demise as master minor trait.
• adept: Terryfying Decent – Plague Sending – Master of Corruption
• master: Chilling Darkness – Path of Corruption – Parasitic Contagion
• gm: Lingering Curse – Weakening Shroud – (New Trait)

In this case you would reserve Plague Sending as an option for those who don’t take Consume Conditions, maybe some will take the Shout heal or will make some use of Vamp Signet or Well of Blood in combo with Blood Magic. Anyway, the point is, if you don’t have a low cd Consume Conditions you can take Plague Sending to compensate for missing out on CC’s cleansing.
And assuming that Chilling Darkness will see more use with the Reaper, a core spec necro on the other hand could choose between Path of Corruption or more sustain with Parasitic Contagion.

spoj.9672:

Curses in its current state works for giving the option of a debuffer role (power/hybrid/condi). Chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

just no! don’t be selfish and ONLY think of your build or builds you like playing. if Necros have good trait lines that’s good for ALL Necros, enough of this selfish bullkitten; i play power so this patch is nice for me garbage or i play MM so these changes seem great. this is why we can’t have nice things!

I am also very annoyed that plague now kills us when we use it. Goes against its design which is to keep us alive. Plague struggles with conditions as it is. Applies progressively worse conditions to yourself doesn’t sound like a good idea.

Odeezee.7362:

spoj.9672:

Curses in its current state works for giving the option of a debuffer role (power/hybrid/condi). Chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

just no! don’t be selfish and ONLY think of your build or builds you like playing. if Necros have good trait lines that’s good for ALL Necros, enough of this selfish bullkitten; i play power so this patch is nice for me garbage or i play MM so these changes seem great. this is why we can’t have nice things!

Lol what. Ok so everyone in this thread has been saying “OMG curses is bad. Im forced to take terror. Condi is kittended so curses is useless”. Then i merely mention one option that has opened up for the line. And im being called selfish? What?

From a power perspective curses has improved. From a condi perspective it looks like its improved as well (maybe thats just me). You can take terror and LC now. You have genuine choices for all types of builds in every tier. They might not all be great choices but they are at least there.

Im not saying the curses line is good. Im saying its improved over last preview. Im all for further improvements. Dont put words in my mouth please.

flow.6043:

Lordrosicky.5813:

As for terror. I think you have to run it. I have gone back and forth on this. But you really do just have to run it. Otherwise no kills will be made ever. So we basically move out of this with a 30s heal instead of a 25s one. A pretty huge nerf as it nerfs every necro spec in the game by alot. heals are so important.

You might be right.

Also, switching Terror with Parasitic Contagion wouldn’t solve the situation at all. Weakening Shroud is now a grandmaster trait, and I suppose some people would still like to use Lingering Curse in condi builds, so having Terror matched up against those two would be just as horrible.
And Terror just isn’t that strong. I really don’t understand why this shouldn’t be merged with a minor trait. It’s just that little edge you need to push your damage here and there to be viable, and since it’s just a trademark trait of any condi necro I don’t see how this shouldn’t just be an automatic unlock if you pick a condition centered specialization.

Also, the adept traits in Curses basically make you choose Plague Sending until Reaper comes out when people will consider taking Chilling Darkness instead. No one is going to take the falling damage trait. But in that case, would Chilling Darkness really have to stay in adept tier?

What if we had this setup instead:

• Terror merged with Furious Demise as master minor trait.
• adept: Terryfying Decent – Plague Sending – Master of Corruption
• master: Chilling Darkness – Path of Corruption – Parasitic Contagion
• gm: Lingering Curse – Weakening Shroud – (New Trait)

In this case you would reserve Plague Sending as an option for those who don’t take Consume Conditions, maybe some will take the Shout heal or will make some use of Vamp Signet or Well of Blood in combo with Blood Magic. Anyway, the point is, if you don’t have a low cd Consume Conditions you can take Plague Sending to compensate for missing out on CC’s cleansing.
And assuming that Chilling Darkness will see more use with the Reaper, a core spec necro on the other hand could choose between Path of Corruption or more sustain with Parasitic Contagion.

Yeh I would like terror to be a minor trait. It is wierd in that its important but not that good.

I’m just going to wait until the other half of my necro duo gets home and looks over every inch of these changes and explains to me over tea while using drawings of Butterbean and Sparkleface to lessen the blow.

But what I really want to know is…
What.
The.
Bloody.
Heck?

“Necromancer -General

• Traits which previously referred to “Death Shroud” now refer to the more ubiquitous “Shroud”.
• Traits which previously referred to specific skills available while in Death Shroud now refer to specific skills as “Shroud Skill 1?, “Shroud Skill 4? etc."

I know it might be a non-issue..But, how necessary was this really?

Bubi.5237:

Agreed, they help you to reach your optimal DPS setup faster, your downed state.
You are a necromancer, you should be able to kill while you’re dead!

Unfortunately, they even nerfed even our down state dps with the trait revamp.

Malchior.1928:

Bubi.5237:

Agreed, they help you to reach your optimal DPS setup faster, your downed state.
You are a necromancer, you should be able to kill while you’re dead!

Unfortunately, they even nerfed even our down state dps with the trait revamp.

But it’s still the best setup

bokkieskitten.8023:

I’m just going to wait until the other half of my necro duo gets home and looks over every inch of these changes and explains to me over tea while using drawings of Butterbean and Sparkleface to lessen the blow.

But what I really want to know is…
What.
The.
Bloody.
Heck?

“Necromancer -General

• Traits which previously referred to “Death Shroud” now refer to the more ubiquitous “Shroud”.
• Traits which previously referred to specific skills available while in Death Shroud now refer to specific skills as “Shroud Skill 1?, “Shroud Skill 4? etc."

I know it might be a non-issue..But, how necessary was this really?

Helps with future Specializations that change Death Shroud skills. That way, there isn’t confusion.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bokkieskitten.8023:

I’m just going to wait until the other half of my necro duo gets home and looks over every inch of these changes and explains to me over tea while using drawings of Butterbean and Sparkleface to lessen the blow.

But what I really want to know is…
What.
The.
Bloody.
Heck?

“Necromancer -General

• Traits which previously referred to “Death Shroud” now refer to the more ubiquitous “Shroud”.
• Traits which previously referred to specific skills available while in Death Shroud now refer to specific skills as “Shroud Skill 1?, “Shroud Skill 4? etc."

I know it might be a non-issue..But, how necessary was this really?

Helps with future Specializations that change Death Shroud skills. That way, there isn’t confusion.

Okie great. Makes sense, thank you.

I had nearly thought some tumblr stuff was happening here.

flow.6043:

Also, the adept traits in Curses basically make you choose Plague Sending until Reaper comes out when people will consider taking Chilling Darkness instead. No one is going to take the falling damage trait. But in that case, would Chilling Darkness really have to stay in adept tier?

What if we had this setup instead:

• Terror merged with Furious Demise as master minor trait.
• adept: Terryfying Decent – Plague Sending – Master of Corruption
• master: Chilling Darkness – Path of Corruption – Parasitic Contagion
• gm: Lingering Curse – Weakening Shroud – (New Trait)

Problem with this is it removes the debuff choice trait from the adept tier. Chilling Darkness should stay adept for this. Or maybe path of corruption to swap with chilling darkness as an alternative.

Whatever you do to curses. I feel like it should maintain the choice to take 3 debuff traits. So that means chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bokkieskitten.8023:

I’m just going to wait until the other half of my necro duo gets home and looks over every inch of these changes and explains to me over tea while using drawings of Butterbean and Sparkleface to lessen the blow.

But what I really want to know is…
What.
The.
Bloody.
Heck?

“Necromancer -General

• Traits which previously referred to “Death Shroud” now refer to the more ubiquitous “Shroud”.
• Traits which previously referred to specific skills available while in Death Shroud now refer to specific skills as “Shroud Skill 1?, “Shroud Skill 4? etc."

I know it might be a non-issue..But, how necessary was this really?

Helps with future Specializations that change Death Shroud skills. That way, there isn’t confusion.

Are you sure?

From the patch-preview:

Traits which previously referred to “Death Shroud” now refer to the more ubiquitous “Shroud”.
Traits which previously referred to specific skills available while in Death Shroud now refer to specific skills as “Shroud Skill 1”, “Shroud Skill 4” etc.

Unyielding Blast: Shroud skill 1 pierces an inflicts 2 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds to targets it hits. Increased number of targets pierced to 5 from 4.

Sooo.. how will a meele-attack “pierce”?
As in Reaper’s Shroud , the “Shrould skill 1” is a meele attack.

And I can’t even say that it makes the skill cleave more as it’s cleaving 3 person now and the pierce says “to 5 from 4”, so it does not refers to it.

Don’t you think it’s just showing how much Anet is thinking about Necros?

Bubi.5237:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

bokkieskitten.8023:

I’m just going to wait until the other half of my necro duo gets home and looks over every inch of these changes and explains to me over tea while using drawings of Butterbean and Sparkleface to lessen the blow.

But what I really want to know is…
What.
The.
Bloody.
Heck?

“Necromancer -General

• Traits which previously referred to “Death Shroud” now refer to the more ubiquitous “Shroud”.
• Traits which previously referred to specific skills available while in Death Shroud now refer to specific skills as “Shroud Skill 1?, “Shroud Skill 4? etc."

I know it might be a non-issue..But, how necessary was this really?

Helps with future Specializations that change Death Shroud skills. That way, there isn’t confusion.

Are you sure?

From the patch-preview:

Traits which previously referred to “Death Shroud” now refer to the more ubiquitous “Shroud”.
Traits which previously referred to specific skills available while in Death Shroud now refer to specific skills as “Shroud Skill 1”, “Shroud Skill 4” etc.

Unyielding Blast: Shroud skill 1 pierces an inflicts 2 stacks of vulnerability for 10 seconds to targets it hits. Increased number of targets pierced to 5 from 4.

Sooo.. how will a meele-attack “pierce”?
As in Reaper’s Shroud , the “Shrould skill 1” is a meele attack.

And I can’t even say that it makes the skill cleave more as it’s cleaving 3 person now and the pierce says “to 5 from 4”, so it does not refers to it.

Don’t you think it’s just showing how much Anet is thinking about Necros?

I am certain. A melee attack can’t “pierce,” so clearly, that portion of the trait won’t function. However, any future specialization that changes Life Blast may not have it be a melee skill and the piercing could apply there.

spoj.9672:

flow.6043:

Also, the adept traits in Curses basically make you choose Plague Sending until Reaper comes out when people will consider taking Chilling Darkness instead. No one is going to take the falling damage trait. But in that case, would Chilling Darkness really have to stay in adept tier?

What if we had this setup instead:

• Terror merged with Furious Demise as master minor trait.
• adept: Terryfying Decent – Plague Sending – Master of Corruption
• master: Chilling Darkness – Path of Corruption – Parasitic Contagion
• gm: Lingering Curse – Weakening Shroud – (New Trait)

Problem with this is it removes the debuff choice trait from the adept tier. Chilling Darkness should stay adept for this. Or maybe path of corruption to swap with chilling darkness as an alternative.

Whatever you do to curses. I feel like it should maintain the choice to take 3 debuff traits. So that means chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

Why?
For what build and in what game mode is having these three traits in seperate tiers the highest priority for Curses.

Also, I don’t quite follow your logic in regards to Weakening Shroud and Chilling Darkness being the debuffers.
I might as well argue that Master of Corruption is more effective as a debuff trait because it reduces the cd of Corrupt Boon and gives more conditions to transfer. And Plague Sending, especially if you pair it with Signets of Suffering will corrupt boons in addition to a condi transfer so it really doesn’t get more “debuffy” than that.

So with the nerf to dumbfire combined with the nerf to lingering curses… is it even worth it for condition necros to spec into that line? Even as a reaper a 3s burn will only let you get 2-3 stacks of burn on our target. A 20s scepter AA would be better than 3s of burn in every possible situation that I can think of.

Maybe condition necros should spec into curses/blood magic/reaper now?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So with the nerf to dumbfire combined with the nerf to lingering curses… is it even worth it for condition necros to spec into that line? Even as a reaper a 3s burn will only let you get 2-3 stacks of burn on our target. A 20s scepter AA would be better than 3s of burn in every possible situation that I can think of.

Maybe condition necros should spec into curses/blood magic/reaper now?

Nah, they should go Spite for Signets of Suffering, Chill of Death, and probably Bitter Chill.

Well so, let’s analyze this kitten.

Life force maximum increased by 15%.
Good Thing.

The area of mark skills has been increased to 240. Mark skill recharges have been reduced by 20%. Mark damage has been increased by 10%.
That’s not a bad thing in my opinion.

Blood is Power: This skill now applies 8 stacks of might for 8 seconds to nearby allies.
A bit useless, 8 seconds of might with a 30 seconds CD skill. However, it makes necro a bit more usefull for group.

Consume Conditions: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 10 stacks of vulnerability to you for 4 seconds after use. Increased recharge to 30 seconds.
Holy crap. Well, what the kitten is that ?

Plague: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 1 stack of bleeding for 2 seconds to you every second it is active.
Oh really Anet ? For real ?

Spectral Walk: This skill can no longer be activated while in mid-air.
No Why ? .

Well … That’s kitten . Totally. Especially this super awesome CC’s nerf that noone asked for. Those nerfs are wrongful and the few buffs are trivial.

flow.6043:

spoj.9672:

flow.6043:

Also, the adept traits in Curses basically make you choose Plague Sending until Reaper comes out when people will consider taking Chilling Darkness instead. No one is going to take the falling damage trait. But in that case, would Chilling Darkness really have to stay in adept tier?

What if we had this setup instead:

• Terror merged with Furious Demise as master minor trait.
• adept: Terryfying Decent – Plague Sending – Master of Corruption
• master: Chilling Darkness – Path of Corruption – Parasitic Contagion
• gm: Lingering Curse – Weakening Shroud – (New Trait)

Problem with this is it removes the debuff choice trait from the adept tier. Chilling Darkness should stay adept for this. Or maybe path of corruption to swap with chilling darkness as an alternative.

Whatever you do to curses. I feel like it should maintain the choice to take 3 debuff traits. So that means chilling darkness, path of corruption and weakening shroud.

Why?
For what build and in what game mode is having these three traits in seperate tiers the highest priority for Curses.

Also, I don’t quite follow your logic in regards to Weakening Shroud and Chilling Darkness being the debuffers.
I might as well argue that Master of Corruption is more effective as a debuff trait because it reduces the cd of Corrupt Boon and gives more conditions to transfer. And Plague Sending, especially if you pair it with Signets of Suffering will corrupt boons in addition to a condi transfer so it really doesn’t get more “debuffy” than that.

Ok ill put it another way. They are not condition damage traits and they are not condition dependant traits. All 3 of those traits work well on power builds. Master of corruption doesnt necessarily work due to its negative aspects and requirement for condi transfer/cleanse.

Your idea is great for condi builds, not so much for others. Maybe someone wants to go in curses to use debilitating conditions. Path of Corruption doesnt fit that exactly but it can do it under the right conditions. And it doesnt have the negative aspect of bonus self harm conditions on use like MoC does. Which as a power debuffer I wont necessarily have access to a transfer to deal with.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So with the nerf to dumbfire combined with the nerf to lingering curses… is it even worth it for condition necros to spec into that line? Even as a reaper a 3s burn will only let you get 2-3 stacks of burn on our target. A 20s scepter AA would be better than 3s of burn in every possible situation that I can think of.

Maybe condition necros should spec into curses/blood magic/reaper now?

Nah, they should go Spite for Signets of Suffering, Chill of Death, and probably Bitter Chill.

Agreed. Problem is you will need to run rabid on condi after the patch. And then chill of death is pretty terrible.

I like the New Curses Trait Setup

I’ll be able to take

Plague Sending
Path of Corruption
Weakening Shroud

All in the same build. Plus some bonus precision from the minor traits. Anybody who builds precision (or takes Deathly perception) on a Necromancer is going to love this. Reapers less so (the RS2 skill looks like it will have terrible interactions with path of corruption).

Plague sending looks great at first glance. It will be an uncontrollable proc, gated by the need to crit somebody, but the transfer will help a lot. Non reapers will love this. (Reapers will be immobilized, crippled and kited because their movement trait is ineffective against anybody with condition duration).

(+2 boons converted and 3 might stacks if you are taking the signet trait too).

Changing boon corruption to RNG acts as a buff (plus all of the free boons that anet is power creeping into the game on every class but necromancer indirectly buff boon removal).

And withering precision is a great “why should a non condimancer take curses” grandmaster.

Weakness is now the “control movement” condition to take, especially combined with the vigor nerf, & it shuts down those builds that require sigil procs to burst. Necromancer weakness application isn’t that great, and I’m glad we got it back.

Tl;DR

New curses looks great for power users, really for anybody building precision and staying with necromancer and not going reaper.

Yes i agree, new curse layout is great. Maybe it’ll convice me to get my condimancer back.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So with the nerf to dumbfire combined with the nerf to lingering curses… is it even worth it for condition necros to spec into that line? Even as a reaper a 3s burn will only let you get 2-3 stacks of burn on our target. A 20s scepter AA would be better than 3s of burn in every possible situation that I can think of.

Maybe condition necros should spec into curses/blood magic/reaper now?

Nah, they should go Spite for Signets of Suffering, Chill of Death, and probably Bitter Chill.

Agreed. Problem is you will need to run rabid on condi after the patch. And then chill of death is pretty terrible.

Still a 3 boon rip and long Chill. I wouldn’t call that too bad.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So with the nerf to dumbfire combined with the nerf to lingering curses… is it even worth it for condition necros to spec into that line? Even as a reaper a 3s burn will only let you get 2-3 stacks of burn on our target. A 20s scepter AA would be better than 3s of burn in every possible situation that I can think of.

Maybe condition necros should spec into curses/blood magic/reaper now?

Nah, they should go Spite for Signets of Suffering, Chill of Death, and probably Bitter Chill.

I don’t know how useful that will be. Vuln is so common now that I feel like every person/enemy in the game being attacked by more than 1 person will have a perma 25 vuln. So Bitter chill won’t be nearly as useful as it sounds. Chill of death will deal next to no damage since we’ll need to be in rabid gear mostly, and reaper already gets 100% chill uptime so no need for the extra chill. Signets of Suffering is sort of meh, I guess it is nice, but I don’t run signets very often, and the lauge proc trait kinda sucks anyway.

With blood you get:
Siphon with attacks
Blood Bond which will trigger on every enemy
Vampiric Presense which gives you more life steal + life steal to all your faster attacking allies
And then either unholy martyr for LF sustain or transfusion for group support.

It isn’t ideal for a condition spec, but at least it is something.

Though I suppose that Soul Reaping still gives you marks buffs, fear of death and foot in the grave. That might be better for PvP where LF generation is a problem and terror will be standard.

PvE things are a little less clear since you almost have to take master of corruption over terror.

After having it all explained to me…. I’m still feeling the same…

spoj.9672:

Ok ill put it another way. They are not condition damage traits and they are not condition dependant traits. All 3 of those traits work well on power builds. Master of corruption doesnt necessarily work due to its negative aspects and requirement for condi transfer/cleanse.

Your idea is great for condi builds, not so much for others. Maybe someone wants to go in curses to use debilitating conditions. Path of Corruption doesnt fit that exactly but it can do it under the right conditions.

Well, but in that case Path of Corruption really is out of place. It depends on your opponent having boons, and then it turns them into conditions (which are now randomly selected too).
And imo Master of Corruption will be a decent pick for any build. In PvP more so because you get a decent heal, but in PvE it reduces the cd of Blood is Power.

spoj.9672:

And it doesnt have the negative aspect of bonus self harm conditions on use like MoC does. Which as a power debuffer I wont necessarily have access to a transfer to deal with.

I don’t think Master of Corruption will actually add an additional unique condition, but more of the same. Like: one more stack of bleeding on BiP, or more vuln on Epidemic, or more poison on Corrupt Boon. I think that’s why the patch notes didn’t actually say how many stacks each corruption skill will get.
Also, you either don’t use corruption skills or you do, in which case you self inflict conditions either way. Being a “power debuffer” won’t change that. But in my suggestion (MoC vs Plague Sending) you’d be free to take Plague Sending if you want to avoid corruption skills entirely.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Agreed. Problem is you will need to run rabid on condi after the patch. And then chill of death is pretty terrible.

Why rabid?

Yeah and thats exactly the issue. Maybe i dont want to use corruption skills and maybe i dont want extra self weaken/poison on my self.

Those 3 debuffer traits are skill independant. Only chilling darkness require a bit of build investment for.

Plague sending is probably useless to that build in a lot of situations. Id rather not be forced to use a trait i dont get any benefit out of.

flow.6043:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Agreed. Problem is you will need to run rabid on condi after the patch. And then chill of death is pretty terrible.

Why rabid?

Because of the minor that gives condition damage based on your precision.

flow.6043:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Agreed. Problem is you will need to run rabid on condi after the patch. And then chill of death is pretty terrible.

Why rabid?

I believe he refers to Curses minor which increases out condition damage based on precision by quite hefty amount.

Plague sending also require crit, though it’s lesser problem. I’d even like to have low crit chance for that trait with a possibility to increase it’s proc chance via Furious Demise.

And without bonus power from Spite, pure condi build damage with CoD is pretty terrible.

spoj.9672:

Yeah and thats exactly the issue. Maybe i dont want to use corruption skills and maybe i dont want extra self weaken/poison on my self.

Those 3 debuffer traits are skill independant. Only chilling darkness require a bit of build investment for.

Plague sending is probably useless to that build in a lot of situations. Id rather not be forced to use a trait i dont get any benefit out of.

You can actually build a necro without any access to blindness, so in that regard it is just the same a MoC.
And like I said, if you don’t want corruptions you can take Plague Sending, why would you not benefit from? Are we talking about PvE? But then you wouldn’t take Path of Corruption…

As a power necromancer, I’m looking at spite

• Spite has Chill of Death and a bunch of Garbage*

The previewed traits had the condition removal trait as a minor, but this changed spite to have the downed state trait (functionally worthless) as the minor.

I am exited about literally nothing else in the line. I suppose siphoned power isn’t aggressively offensively putrid now, and the signet trait is build defining in a good way. Too bad signets are terrible.

Btw: what is signet of lesser vampirism?

If I take this blood trait and the spite signet trait, and then I cast signet of spite on a target who has one bleed will I get 2 boon rips and 3 might stacks) for the signet trait, AND (2 boon rips and 3 might stacks) for having more than 3 bleeds, triggering the blood trait?

(I’m guessing that this does not work and there is an internal cool down somewhere, probably in the signet trait)

Muchacho.2390:

flow.6043:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Agreed. Problem is you will need to run rabid on condi after the patch. And then chill of death is pretty terrible.

Why rabid?

Because of the minor that gives condition damage based on your precision.

You mean the 650 precision on a rabid amulet? The trait would give you 85 condi dmg for that. Yeah, no I’ll gladly stick with carrion if that is the deciding factor.

flow.6043:

spoj.9672:

Yeah and thats exactly the issue. Maybe i dont want to use corruption skills and maybe i dont want extra self weaken/poison on my self.

Those 3 debuffer traits are skill independant. Only chilling darkness require a bit of build investment for.

Plague sending is probably useless to that build in a lot of situations. Id rather not be forced to use a trait i dont get any benefit out of.

You can actually build a necro without any access to blindness, so in that regard it is just the same a MoC.
And like I said, if you don’t want corruptions you can take Plague Sending, why would you not benefit from? Are we talking about PvE? But then you wouldn’t take Path of Corruption…

There are boons in PvE. And there will probably be more in the future. I would rather have controlled boon removal instead of random uncontrolled condi cleanse.

nekretaal.6485:

The previewed traits had the condition removal trait as a minor, but this changed spite to have the downed state trait (functionally worthless) as the minor.

Actually Spiteful Renewal was switched with Reaper’s Might.
And btw, downed state dmg isn’t worthless and you actually get some bulnerability with it as well.

spoj.9672:

There are boons in PvE. And there will probably be more in the future. I would rather have controlled boon removal instead of random uncontrolled condi cleanse.

Then take Well of Corruption? That is more effective in PvE anyway.

Also, Path of Corruption for boons in PvE? Really? A long cd, single target skill? That’s a rather thin argument against having traits in Curses moved that actually have a high impact in PvP.

It’s not worthless, but +50% downed state damage helps me rally about once every 10 games.

That’s pretty bad & this is a nerfed version of that.

Because necros are so fast the only normal heal skill will now keep you in combat 4 seconds longer. You know, so you wouldn’t get any ideas about disengaging. Or trying to dodge, cause auto-marks everywhere :P
What the <bleep>. Really?