Guild Wars 2

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/Necromancer-I-lack-an-identity-1-8/first

This link takes you to a thread that is part of a series of planned threads with the goal of global profession balance. I’d like to open up the thread to the Necromancer Forum’s opinions.

By “global profession balance” I mean that my goals for balancing skills adhere to simple governing rules about how combat works in GW2:

BALANCE GOALS TO GOVERN ALL COMBAT IN GW2

• Excessive spam shouldn’t be a factor in combat because there are no defined healers to address it.
• No offensive skill aside from auto-attack skills should have short cool-downs or activation-times. By adding longer cast-times and supplemental charge-up mechanics to offensive skills, combat will be more legible. More legible combat will bring active dodging and keen positioning back into GW2’s forefront as a means of mitigating damage.
• Condispam should not be more effective than Power Builds because it undermines active damage mitigation by just spamming throwaway skills that never stop onto an opponent. This turns combat into a face-roll of who can press the most buttons the fastest and limits the effectiveness of keen positioning and clutch damage mitigation such as single blocks or dodges.
• Conditions can be as effective as Power just so long as the skills that inflict conditions are as well cued and have both adequate cool-downs and cast-times when compared to their power-based counterparts. This way, dodging, positioning and timing will be viable ways to counter conditions.

FACTORS THAT BALANCE RANGED COMBAT IN GW2:
Guild Wars 2 is a game that was designed to have players read their opponent’s skill cues. To this effect, ANet has designed several manners of reading an opponent’s skills such as:

• Post-cast delays
• Red circles
• Projectiles
• On-caster visual cues
• Long cast-times
• Projectiles that can be blocked, reflected or destroyed
• Gap-closer skills that requires the player to run or leap to a target/target area

However, despite these various cues, there are a many slew of skills in GW2 that forego 2 or more of the above balancing principles. These skills should be looked at critically and probably nerfed or functionally changed in order to bring them into line with how combat should appear in-game. Giving certain weapon sets or play-styles free hits for certain skill usage in a game where the “holy trinity” is absent is asking for trouble. Overpowered ranged skills in this game need to be wrangled back into obedience governed by the balancing principles listed above.

ATTRITION GAME-PLAY IN GW2
In the current meta-game, power is at a disadvantage because it has to actually hit a target while conditions just sort of float about thanks to spammy AoE skills, short cast-times, the ranged nature of most condition skills and passive procs. None of those have to constantly hit, the condition player just gets to use skills willy-nilly and all the while get in damage for free because of conditions. The system is flawed and should really be looked at critically.

Power-based damage should be king with conditions being a supplement. Conditions should only be a viable means of killing an opponent if the skills that apply those conditions are well telegraphed, have appropriately long activation times and long recharges. Attrition combat should be attained through movement control.

Power builds should not be innately better than conditions just because you think power takes more skill. Thanks for the effort to help the game, but I’d prefer the whole “condi takes no skill, power 4 pros” crap that prevails over the sPvP forums stay out of this subforum.

Maximum dps should be rampager and berserker nothing else.

And i “lack of usefull support”.

Bhawb.7408:

Power builds should not be innately better than conditions just because you think power takes more skill.

I don’t think; I’ve made the points. This game has active dodge as a core mechanic for a reason. Skill spam of any kind undermines that core mechanic by making combat a craps shoot of poorly-cued attacks that make timed damage mitigation random guess work at best. At the rate this game’s meta is progressing, skill spam will be king with only passive healing and channeled blocks to stop it. There will be no timing; there will be no positioning; there will be no skill because everyone will just sit cycling through the same, auto-aimed rotations. Without aspects of the game such as timing, positioning, prediction or even aim to distinguish player skill, there will be no way to tell who is good or bad at the game and PvP will be utterly dead (even more dead than it is now).

Bhawb.7408:

Thanks for the effort to help the game, but I’d prefer the whole “condi takes no skill, power 4 pros” crap that prevails over the sPvP forums stay out of this subforum.

Oh, no, no, it’s much more eloquent than that. And it won’t stay out. This is a valid point that must be made. If you’re here to guard the Necromancer forum from the truth, then you are no ally of balance.

Condition builds do not innately need spam to work, the idea that power = skill and condi = spam is absolutely false. Some skills follow that line of thinking, some don’t.

I am completely for promoting more active gameplay, but I hate the crap that keeps being thrown at us where the only “proper” skillful way to play the game is full zerker melee.

Swagg.9236:

• No offensive skill aside from auto-attack skills should have short cool-downs or activation-times. By adding longer cast-times and supplemental charge-up mechanics to offensive skills, combat will be more legible. More legible combat will bring active dodging and keen positioning back into GW2’s forefront as a means of mitigating damage.

This position demonstrates the lack of relevance to the actual game that the rest of your ideas have. I see what you’re doing- you want to bring tactics and skill between opponents ‘back’ into the game. (I say ‘back’ in scare quotes because, IMO, it never had it) Unfortunately, GW2 is simply not that game. This change would be a fundamental change to the pace and feel of gameplay. The goal is worthy, but this method simply isn’t relevant to the style of play the game is designed around.

Case in point- conditions. They are the second worst mechanic I have ever seen in any MMO (and I started with Everquest in 1999). Every targeted effect in the game, other then DD, is done with conditions. This means that every persistent effect in the entire game has the same counter. Bleeding? Cure condition. Confusion? Stunned? Poisoned? Weakened? Crippled? Chilled? Immobilize? Fear? Torment? Cure condition.

The condition system needs to be tossed and rebuilt. Of course, it’ll never happen, since simplistic gameplay is what the designers wanted. The entire OP is asking for something that GW2 is unequipped to ever provide.

Bhawb.7408:

Condition builds do not innately need spam to work, the idea that power = skill and condi = spam is absolutely false. Some skills follow that line of thinking, some don’t.

Sure, conditions don’t have to be constantly spammed to be effective, however all of the condition specs currently in this game spam conditions everywhere due to spammable skills and passive, RNG trait/sigil/rune procs. The skill design is the biggest issue, and that’s what I’m targeting with my suggestions.

Bhawb.7408:

I am completely for promoting more active gameplay…

I see people say this all the time, but then never follow up with concrete suggestions or examples on how to actually “promote more active gameplay.” Your sentence doesn’t inspire any confidence or define any goals for anyone to support. “I am completely for promoting more active gameplay” is just a sentence people say to cover themselves when they have nothing constructive to contribute. I’m here offering concrete suggestions with clearly defined goals. That’s what this game needs; not “I think X should be more Y because Z,” discussions.

Bhawb.7408:

but I hate the crap that keeps being thrown at us where the only “proper” skillful way to play the game is full zerker melee.

Swagg.9236:

• Conditions can be as effective as Power just so long as the skills that inflict conditions are as well cued and have both adequate cool-downs and cast-times when compared to their power-based counterparts. This way, dodging, positioning and timing will be viable ways to counter conditions.

I never said melee. I never said full zerker. I said power. Power in GW2 implies that you must strike your opponent. Power implies that you must get in key strikes in order to bring down an opponent. Conditions completely undermine that principle and have run this game into the ground with a paradigm that ousts timing, positioning and prediction as viable ways to counter damage. While full zerker is heavily implied when one speaks of “power builds,” it’s not zerker that’s being discussed: it’s the fact that you have to strike your opponent to deal damage; not spam skills at the guy and then run around while pressing auto-attack as he bleeds out.

Condition builds must become more like Power builds in how players strike their targets for initial damage.

Rhyse.8179:

This position demonstrates the lack of relevance to the actual game that the rest of your ideas have. I see what you’re doing- you want to bring tactics and skill between opponents ‘back’ into the game. (I say ‘back’ in scare quotes because, IMO, it never had it) Unfortunately, GW2 is simply not that game. This change would be a fundamental change to the pace and feel of gameplay. The goal is worthy, but this method simply isn’t relevant to the style of play the game is designed around.

Fundamental is the kind of change I’m pushing.

Honestly, this game was pretty clutch-dodge-centric back towards the official launch. Power-centric builds were much more common in PvP and created an environment in which things like positioning, timing and dodges often determined victors in fights. Unfortunately, conditions soon took hold and with the Dhuumfire/Torment patch, everything just went to the pits. As I’ve said before, the game’s biggest issue is condispam; and condispam’s existence comes primarily from poor skill design. That skill design is what I’m out to fix.

Rhyse.8179:

Case in point- conditions. They are the second worst mechanic I have ever seen in any MMO (and I started with Everquest in 1999). Every targeted effect in the game, other then DD, is done with conditions. This means that every persistent effect in the entire game has the same counter. Bleeding? Cure condition. Confusion? Stunned? Poisoned? Weakened? Crippled? Chilled? Immobilize? Fear? Torment? Cure condition.

You seem like a pretty cool guy. Conditions are in fact one of the worst mechanics in GW2 right now. Even so, they worked pretty alright in GW1. Guild Wars 1 had a condition paradigm based around pressuring opponents with degen that didn’t scale except in duration (and that was influenced by what were effectively trait points). It was rather inefficient or even silly to attempt to kill a player solely by casting degen and then auto-attacking (especially if there were monks around).

Now that I say all that, maybe you too have played Guild Wars 1 and now I feel silly for typing all that out.

In any case, GW2’s misstep was making conditions a viable means of killing an opponent very quickly. This sort of thing is what I’m out to address with targeted skill functionality changes and a few trait adjustments.

Rhyse.8179:

The condition system needs to be tossed and rebuilt.

That would be the ideal, but I still see solutions to the problem without completely redoing a core aspect of the game.

Rhyse.8179:

Of course, it’ll never happen, since simplistic gameplay is what the designers wanted. The entire OP is asking for something that GW2 is unequipped to ever provide.

So long as the goal is clear, I will fight for balance and a more engaging GW2 experience.

Swagg.9236:

So long as the goal is clear, I will fight for balance and a more engaging GW2 experience.

Well it sounds like we don’t actually disagree on anything. Except, that is, the likelihood of the changes we want ever happening. Best of luck to you, I just prefer to concentrate on areas that seem plausible.

Swagg.9236:

Power in GW2 implies that you must strike your opponent. Power implies that you must get in key strikes in order to bring down an opponent. Conditions completely undermine that principle and have run this game into the ground with a paradigm that ousts timing, positioning and prediction as viable ways to counter damage. While full zerker is heavily implied when one speaks of “power builds,” it’s not zerker that’s being discussed: it’s the fact that you have to strike your opponent to deal damage; not spam skills at the guy and then run around while pressing auto-attack as he bleeds out.

Condition builds must become more like Power builds in how players strike their targets for initial damage.

See, this is exactly what I mean. If you had a power build where the auto attack hit for very little damage, but it hit 10 times a second at range, there is nothing to do about it. It is no more active than “mindless” spam. You could also have a power based AoE attacks that left a huge circle on the ground and dealt similar small amounts of damage but very rapidly over a long period of time.

On the other hand, you could have a condition skill that was on a long CD, had a long buildup, and applied a large stack of conditions, but did so at melee range and was very telegraphed.

The fact is, nothing about conditions or power makes them innately more or less skillful than the other. I agree that, in general, the way the game is right now that popular condition builds tend to be ranged and more along the lines of spammy AoE, and power builds tend to be melee with telegraphing (although while this very discussion is happening I can almost guarantee that in the next week there will be a thread of line of posts arguing that too many direct damage skills aren’t telegraphed enough).

However neither of those are innate to the damage type. You could easily have power-based skills that mirrored the effects of conditions, and conditions that were the same as power-skills. The issue that really needs addressing is the “skill-less” spam, of any kind. Conditions are fine, when they require constant and skillful re-application. The problem is that too many skills are a 6s AoE application of 8s of conditions.

They can change this just fine without doing anything huge just by matching the strength of a skill to how easy it is to land it, and making clear telegraphs for everything that requires it. Another issue is that skills like Necromancer staff aren’t just “instant” after casting, but also difficult to tell apart, and have no ground indicator, so if you are within 1200 range of a Necromancer casting a mark, he could be aiming for you, or he could be aiming for someone 2400 units away from you.

There are ways to fix this without killing half of the game’s playstyles in the process.

I said this before, and I’ll say again: I fail to see how your proposed changes increase the attrition capabilities of the Necromancer. Making our condition skills harder to land but more powerful tends to burst-style game play. Your proposed new resource promotes using your heal skills at the wrong time (health-wise) to acquire it, tending to glassier, more bursting builds. Condi spam is a bad arrangement, but it’s the closest thing to attrition this game has – small amounts of incremental sustained damage that have poor instant DPS, but are easier to maintain.
While a highly telegraphed bleed-equivalent to Eviscerate every 25 seconds leads to more “skillful” game play, it isn’t attrition. And frankly, I don’t even think it’s that skillful either – landing a big power hit after baiting immunities/blocks/dodges is equivalent to spamming conditions after baiting a cleanse, the difference being that the power hit has its damage applied upfront, while the condis tick over time, and may be removed before dealing all of their damage. Hence, attrition-style condition specs need to maintain constant conditions on the foe to equalize the damage done in the same period of time by power specs. (Note that I’m not referring to ranges here – melee should deal more damage than ranged attacks, but that’s another balance issue.)

1) His proposed changes have nothing to do with preserving the identity of Necromancers, this is something he puts everywhere.

2) You can still have the play/counterplay mechanics of things being relatively hard to hit compared to their output. However certain things like Staff Marks right now don’t fit into the gameplay the game is supposedly about, whereas something like Epidemic does. Even if you make it a relatively low CD low effect skill with lots of reapplication to make conditions work as attrition, it still needs to be clearly shown in game, and have reasonable counterplay.

You can have attrition without relying on the spammy AoE application we have now.

I’m not sure how it is in high end PvP, but when i’m playing PvE I find that a condition build takes Far FAR more work to work effectively then any power build at all. Even with my zerker necro build I find myself kitten ing around half the time, killing things without really noticing it but with my condi build I’m far more active and have to work a lot harder to do the same amount of damage. So.. I don’t know. For me, a condi build is far more rewarding then a Zerker build partly for that reason.

This post is 100% inspired by sPvP.

Bhawb.7408:

This post is 100% inspired by sPvP.

well then. he probably shouldn’t say global changes. Either way, I still disagree with him.

@ Swagg
so you want to nerf scepter and our only viable build in spvp and be able to press #1 more on a ranger class?
I suggest you first ask what is wrong with necromancer before you browse through here with a preset opinion on how this profession works..

I do agree with your last alinea, necro’s don’t have movement or vigor or acces to boons or anything in the likes. So yeah. please go for it. get necro’s acces to boons, vigor, 4 dodges in a row, evade , block, immunity you name it..
Go for it! get necro’s those things.. then come back and we can talk

//
“Sure, conditions don’t have to be constantly spammed to be effective, however all of the condition specs currently in this game spam conditions everywhere due to spammable skills and passive, RNG trait/sigil/rune procs. The skill design is the biggest issue, and that’s what I’m targeting with my suggestions.”//

funny how necro rely on runes and sigils to proc to be effective .. isn’kitten

Note: you do also realize you are stepping in a subforum of a profession that is under the hammer for over 6 months now right?

It is true that Necromancers are very clunky to play due primarily to their lack of mobility. I’m not unaware of that, which is not only why I’ve been playing around with the Necromancer in PvP but also why I’ve opened up this discussion on the Necromancer Forum. There’s a lot to be desired with much of the Necromancer play-style whether rolling conditions or power.

I really do think that adding some key movement skills (leaps or dashes) to the Necromancer’s repertoire would give the class a breath of fresh air. Aside from that, I’m not sure that it needs too much. The trick to adding survivability to a class is to not overdo it. Things got out of control with the Warrior so we can’t make that mistake again.

So let’s start here:
Which skills could be the best candidate for being remade/adjusted to being movement skills? After pinning down—let’s say—two skill slots across at least two different weapon sets as ideal candidates for movement skills, I could start crafting out ideas. Which weapon skills or weapons in general feel lack-luster or could maybe use some additional combat movement the most? “All” is not an acceptable answer.

The addition of 1 second delays, especially that many, would completely neuter the necromancer. Also, attrition based combat is all about small numerous hits over time and out lasting your opponent. By making more of the skills bigger with longer cooldowns, you achieve the opposite of your goal.

If you want to make the necromancer more attrition based, you need to make power builds have more attrition based conditions/boons like retaliation, regeneration, protection, weakness, ect. IE: give the axe an auto attack chain that applies weakness.

Also, power builds should NOT inherently be better than condition builds. Berserker’s should have the highest DPS, sure, but that doesn’t mean condition builds need a nerf in DPS. This is especially true in PvE where condition builds already fall behind, let alone if you have 2 condition damage classes in a party.

striker.3704:

The addition of 1 second delays, especially that many, would completely neuter the necromancer. Some of those nerfs are completely needless (mark of blood).

The 1-second delay AoE paradigm is not something at which we should be turning up our noses. Staff elementalist has been getting along with these types of skills with proper timing, target-leading and positioning. The 180 base radius of staff marks make them very viable to land despite a 1-second delay so long as the Necromancer properly predicts an enemy’s movement. Moreover, unlike other AoEs, Necromancer staff marks stay around even if they aren’t initially triggered. This creates a mine-field effect that no other class can simulate.

Even so, I understand the issue with marks: they don’t have any staying power. Once they trigger, they go off and that’s it. If an opponent dodges them, that’s it for good and most of them (aside from [Mark of Blood]) have pretty substantial recharges. I’ll look at ways of maybe addressing this, but I don’t want to just make an entire weapon set of pulsing, duration AoEs simply because people say that leading a target in order to land an AoE with a 1-second delay is too difficult.

Swagg.9236:

snip

After reading all your other suggestions i do get where you are going with these idea’s it’s just very hard to put the idea’s for necromancer into context wiothout reading trough all your other suggestions. (quite impressive all the work you put into it)
i do believe it would take a huge efford to introduce certain idea’s.

striker.3704:

If you want to make the necromancer more attrition based, you need to make power builds have more attrition based conditions/boons like retaliation, regeneration, protection, weakness, ect. IE: give the axe an auto attack chain that applies weakness.

Spamming weakness… ehhhh.
While I understand that it’s in the game (Engineer and Elementalist have options for auto-attacks that spam weakness), I still worry about giving a very, very strong, power-centric weapon set weakness on the auto-attack. Even so, I’ll look into redesigning the auto-attack in general. To be honest, giving Necromancer axe main-hand an auto-attack chain never really occurred to me. I’ll think about it for sure.

striker.3704:

Also, power builds should NOT inherently be better than condition builds. Berserker’s should have the highest DPS, sure, but that doesn’t mean condition builds need a nerf in DPS. This is especially true in PvE where condition builds already fall behind, let alone if you have 2 condition damage classes in a party.

I’m trying to revise that statement. I’ve said before, Condition Damage builds can rival Power Builds but only if the conditions granted from a Condition Damage build carry the same skill-usage risks as a typical Power Build. I mean, things like [Jump Shot] or [Earthshaker] are very well-cued attack animations. Using those skills typically incurs a risk (either that the user is CC’ed during the attack or that the opponent dodges/moves out of range of the attack). That’s the kind of paradigm that should work for condition damage builds too.

The current condispam meta that permeates the game at the moment is invested in throwaway spam skills that have no really penalty for one or two missing or going astray. They just all blur together without definition until an opponent is dead. That’s one of the issues that I’m trying to fix with my suggestions.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Swagg.9236:

snip

After reading all your other suggestions i do get where you are going with these idea’s it’s just very hard to put the idea’s for necromancer into context wiothout reading trough all your other suggestions.

Yeah, that’s really the trouble of it. I wish there were a shorter, easier, faster way of getting everything down but the truth is that there really isn’t. We need concrete examples of how to change aspects of this game and those typically can’t come without detailed skill descriptions.

But I’ll keep trying anyway.

“Which skills could be the best candidate for being remade/adjusted to being movement skills?”

-Necro staff #4 teleport as you place the mark, putrid mark reverted and blast finisher activates when blinked.
-SW can be reworked,
-DS#2 can be reworked

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

“Which skills could be the best candidate for being remade/adjusted to being movement skills?”

-Necro staff #4 teleport as you place the mark, putrid mark reverted and blast finisher activates when blinked.

You mean teleport to the place where you put the mark and then create a putrid mark where you were once standing?

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

-SW can be reworked,

By that you mean Spectral Walk? I might have an idea for that.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

-DS#2 can be reworked

Ah, right. I sort of almost forgot about that one. I have an idea for that too. Hopefully I’ll get them down soon.

Swagg.9236:

striker.3704:

The addition of 1 second delays, especially that many, would completely neuter the necromancer. Some of those nerfs are completely needless (mark of blood).

The 1-second delay AoE paradigm is not something at which we should be turning up our noses. Staff elementalist has been getting along with these types of skills with proper timing, target-leading and positioning. The 180 base radius of staff marks make them very viable to land despite a 1-second delay so long as the Necromancer properly predicts an enemy’s movement. Moreover, unlike other AoEs, Necromancer staff marks stay around even if they aren’t initially triggered. This creates a mine-field effect that no other class can simulate.

Even so, I understand the issue with marks: they don’t have any staying power. Once they trigger, they go off and that’s it. If an opponent dodges them, that’s it for good and most of them (aside from [Mark of Blood]) have pretty substantial recharges. I’ll look at ways of maybe addressing this, but I don’t want to just make an entire weapon set of pulsing, duration AoEs simply because people say that leading a target in order to land an AoE with a 1-second delay is too difficult.

Marks are not wells and shouldn’t ever be like them. Their purpose is just that: to make a mine field. If you want to make the “trap” element more distinct, instead of adding a one second delay and making it exactly like a well, why not just make the mark’s effect more potent the longer it’s on the ground? It may be a more boring solution, but it’s a solution that makes more sense.

Also, just because the Ele’s weapon works like that doesn’t mean the necro’s should. They are two different classes and should remain that way.

striker.3704:

Also, just because the Ele’s weapon works like that doesn’t mean the necro’s should. They are two different classes and should remain that way.

We shouldn’t justify ignoring a well-balanced skill functionality just because of class flavor.

“You mean teleport to the place where you put the mark and then create a putrid mark where you were once standing?”

I meant, blink to the spot you want to place your mark and the mark appears there after you blinked, so leaps will still follow you and if they are in range and if someone leap to your blink spot they have a chance to catch your conditions. also leaving room to cast a well that can then be blasted. casttime should be instant. aftercast.. i donno.

Swagg.9236:

striker.3704:

Also, just because the Ele’s weapon works like that doesn’t mean the necro’s should. They are two different classes and should remain that way.

We shouldn’t justify ignoring a well-balanced skill functionality just because of class flavor.

Class flavor is actually very important. If you make the classes too similar, it becomes more difficult to distinguish what they are even mean’t to do, let alone balance the two classes around each other when they compete for the except same play style. Never you mind the fact that it would make the game less diverse and frankly more boring. If you’re going to suggest changes, keep true to the class and it’s functions instead of lazily copy-pasting another class into it. Which is actually quite ironic considering the title.

striker.3704:

Class flavor is actually very important. If you make the classes too similar, it becomes more difficult to distinguish what they are even mean’t to do, let alone balance the two classes around each other when they compete for the except same play style. Never you mind the fact that it would make the game less diverse and frankly more boring. If you’re going to suggest changes, keep true to the class and it’s functions instead of lazily copy-pasting another class into it. Which is actually quite ironic considering the title.

Fair points, but I mean what I said. This game is balanced around reading your opponent. Frankly put, marks are very poorly cued and make it difficult to read a staff Necromancer’s actions. Giving them a faster cast-time and a post-cast delay would help solve this problem.

Furthermore, even though I’m borrowing a balancing paradigm, I’m not changing the base functionality of the skill. That’s the important part. The marks are still marks even if they have a post-cast delay. There’s no arguing that.

I agree with the post cast delay as long as the overall cast time is unaffected. Marks do need better visual cues. However, I believe that all Marks should function in the same trap-like, one-shot way – at least at first. We don’t really know what power shift would occur by simply editing the animation for clarity. Moreover, making them different destroys their identity – Guardian Symbols all behave equally.

I think that before you can begin to modify skills and traits, you need to decide what roles those skills will play in a given build, and what builds it makes accessible – something that, at least to me, wasn’t immediately clear in your suggestions.
How does this skill promote attrition? How does it promote burst? If it does or doesn’t, do we want it to? Simply changing something to be more inline with something else might make the game “better” as a whole, but it won’t necessarily improve the Necro.

I’ve only read the first post and skimmed through the rest, so maybe this was addressed already: a major flaw I see in your post is that you apparently think that power damage has to be actively applied (thus requiring skill), while conditions just sort of magically happen (thus not requiring skill). Yet skills that apply conditions are functionally exactly the same as skills that only do power damage, with the only difference that their damage is applied in a delayed fashion instead of immediately.

This actually creates an additional layer of difficulty for conditions, as not only do you have to wait for your damage to actually apply, but your target can also use condition cleanses during that time to cut your damage short. Or, from the other side, not only can you avoid damage by good positioning, dodging, evading, etc. but even after already being hit, you still have options to reduce the damage taken.

And that’s exactly why all condition builds that currently work feel spammy: you can only hope to do well if you can take their condition cleanses out of the picture, so you are forced to build in such a way that you can overload those cleanses by means of frequent application of numerous conditions…

Marks can be “fixed” simply by having the mark appear on the ground the instant the mark begins casting, and then you have half a second to get out. Along with more differentiation between the casts. If this makes marks too weak, buff them.

Swagg.9236:

So let’s start here:
Which skills could be the best candidate for being remade/adjusted to being movement skills? After pinning down—let’s say—two skill slots across at least two different weapon sets as ideal candidates for movement skills, I could start crafting out ideas. Which weapon skills or weapons in general feel lack-luster or could maybe use some additional combat movement the most? “All” is not an acceptable answer.

See, this isn’t a fix at all. Necromancers shouldn’t have mobility except at the very most things like dark path/flesh wurm/spectral walk; namely things that don’t allow generally allow you to run from fights/outside of fights, but allow you to reposition in them.

I’d vastly prefer they stick with the non-mobile Necromancer and just make it work, instead of change what we are.

Bhawb.7408:

Marks can be “fixed” simply by having the mark appear on the ground the instant the mark begins casting, and then you have half a second to get out. Along with more differentiation between the casts. If this makes marks too weak, buff them.

That’s actually a really good idea.
I’m surprised no one made this suggestion in the “Give Necro Marks Unique Animations” thread from two weeks ago. Or did I just not read it?
Either way, indicating an incoming mark with a red circle would make a lot of sense in context of the rest of the game.

Bhawb.7408:

Marks can be “fixed” simply by having the mark appear on the ground the instant the mark begins casting, and then you have half a second to get out. Along with more differentiation between the casts. If this makes marks too weak, buff them.

That’s actually how Elementalist [Ice Spike], [Eruption], [Dragon’s Tooth] and [Lava Font] currently work. I simply chose to focus on the [Lava Font] cue because of its short cast-time while still providing a fair tell to opponents. Given that the new marks would have a 0-second cast-time and a visible “after-cast” animation, the mark would immediately begin manifesting upon cast-activation (not cast-completion). That was the goal with my mark suggestion.

Swagg.9236:

So let’s start here:
Which skills could be the best candidate for being remade/adjusted to being movement skills? After pinning down—let’s say—two skill slots across at least two different weapon sets as ideal candidates for movement skills, I could start crafting out ideas. Which weapon skills or weapons in general feel lack-luster or could maybe use some additional combat movement the most? “All” is not an acceptable answer.

Bhawb.7408:

See, this isn’t a fix at all. Necromancers shouldn’t have mobility except at the very most things like dark path/flesh wurm/spectral walk; namely things that don’t allow generally allow you to run from fights/outside of fights, but allow you to reposition in them.

[Burning Retreat] is a good in-battle repositioning skill. [Lightning Flash] is also a good example. They’re even better because they’re balanced with rather substantial base cool-downs. The Necromancer repositioning skills that do exist are clunky, have long cool-downs and don’t really often allow for clutch-timing movement. [Flesh Wurm] is more like a portal that can be destroyed while even something like [Spectral Walk] is cool, but doesn’t actually provide the Necromancer with a lot of raw movement abilities like an evading retreat, teleport or directional whirl would. Giving Necromancer the ability to reposition—even just once during a brief encounter—could really be a game-changer in combat that could amplify the profession’s survivability immensely.