Guild Wars 2

No, now the way to soak up damage is straight to your health. That is it. And health didn’t increase in any way. Ways to protect it went down, and you tied all remaining survivability to a few long cooldown utility skills. How you think this is an improvement is incomprehensible.

And Greatsword never showed up in your post.

I’m with the others, I just don’t see how the Necro could function without DS. It barely functions with it!

To change DS as much as you guys are claiming is going above and beyond what ANet is likely considering for these specializations.

At most I could see another skill being added to DS or perhaps one of the DS skills changing. But there are simply too many traits for the class tied directly to death shroud to expect a significant change in that area.

Plus, I honestly don’t want it changed that much. For all its problems, Deathshroud is really the main reason I still play the class. Even if it does less DPS than my Ranger.

Well the class has managed to function with a severe lack of damage avoidance so far. Whats it matter if we lose a bit more.

Honestly i do think one of the more likely ideas for the specialisation is removal of DS as a transform. Make DS skills F key skills and give us some blocks and more defensive utilities. This is a speculation thread. Theres no need to jump down each others throats over disgreeing ideas.

Spoj just because we state that we don’t agree with it does not mean we are jumping down each other’s throats but merely stating our opinion that we would not like to loose ds, despite its limitations and shortcomings.

While death shroud is great at absorbing damage (to a point, tends to be lack luster in team fights).

It does have a major draw back, in that it blocks all healing you would get while it’s active.

Personally I would be alright with losing death shroud in the specialization if it got access to decent damage mitigation/negation & some vigor. Because then the necro would have mitigation/negation, vigor & more received healing.

At the same time the base class (or at least it’s traits) could definitely use some support skills that provide things like protection, offensive buffs etc…

Whatever the case, I think we can all agree the necro needs some love when it comes to PvP & PvE where they are becoming unwanted.

No, now the way to soak up damage is straight to your health. That is it. And health didn’t increase in any way. Ways to protect it went down, and you tied all remaining survivability to a few long cooldown utility skills.

Sure, you can’t go into DS, but this don’t remove your LF pool which is used by F skills (for offense/support) and spectral skills (for defense). Spectral skill work as some patch of health and yeah this need to have long cool down because while you are under the effect of them every heal granted by siphon/traits/teammate/skills resplenish your actual health pool. You seem to think that defensivewise it’s a huge issue but in fact, from my point of view, it’s borderly overpowered.

How you think this is an improvement is incomprehensible.

I don’t think it’s an improvement. I do think that it’s a possibility that give value to some unused trait/skills while still keeping the base character profession enjoyable to play in the actuals build. I do think it open different opportunity to play the necromancer in a specialization without breaking totally the base profession.

And Greatsword never showed up in your post.

This mean you didn’t read my post until the end.

Soul reaping
Vital persistance : reduce DS skill cost by 20%
Speed of shadow : wielding a Greatsword grant an increased movement speed.
Unyelding blast : Life blast become a blast finisher. Cause vulnerability on foe hitten by life blast.
Near to death : reduce recharge on Greatsword skill. Greatsword critical hit grant vigor.
Foot in the grave : grant stability on spectral skill use.
Death perception : Increase critical hit chance while under the effect of a spectral skill.
Renewing blast : heal area around the target while using life blast.

By the way, I didn’t made any suggestion on GS but, it may have some skills that grant block/blind/weakness. But I choose not to focus on the GS because this could end up with a specialization hugely dependant on a sole weapon while we already know that preexistent weapon will still be available.

Here, I just suggested mechanisms that could eventually replace DS in an hypothetic specialization design.

And like Spoj said

Theres no need to jump down each others throats over disgreeing ideas.

So I make my apologies if I happen to be seem rude in my previous posts.

My point is that you aren’t protecting that health pool anymore. As such, tying everything left to long cooldowns for survivability is a terrible idea. 9 seconds of Protection every 40 seconds is not going to help you stay alive, and that’s the best that there is left. Yes, siphons and such affect your actual health, but so does all incoming damage.

I will redact my statement about the Greatsword, though.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

My point is that you aren’t protecting that health pool anymore. As such, tying everything left to long cooldowns for survivability is a terrible idea. 9 seconds of Protection every 40 seconds is not going to help you stay alive, and that’s the best that there is left. Yes, siphons and such affect your actual health, but so does all incoming damage.

I will redact my statement about the Greatsword, though.

What he means, I think, is that spectral skills would be changed to incorporate stuff like stability and a block/reflect, aswell as reduced cooldowns. Basically get rid of the extra HP and make us the same as everybody else, in the most bland way possible.

I’m almost sure that we are on a total misunderstanding between each other and I find it hard to find the word that could enlighten this misunderstanding…

Well, let’s try :
Actual necromancer
Damage mitigation :
- protection
- blind
- weakness
- Deathshroud

Sustain :
- regeneration
- siphon
- healing skill

Pro
High uptime and easy damage absorption via deathshroud.

Cons
Conflict between damage mitigation and sustain while in deathshroud.

Hypothetic specialization
Damage mitigation :
- protection
- blind
- weakness
- 4 spectral skills transfering incoming damage and condition damage into LF pool

Sustain :
- regeneration
- siphon
- healing skill
- heals from traits

Pro
Good synergy between sustain and damage mitigation skills

Cons
Low damage mitigation uptime.

PS.: I’m coming to the end of this post and I think I’m grasping the meaning of your argumentation. I think, you are basically saying that there is not actual damage mitigation in the way aegis would work or warrior/engi shield#5 work.
The problem is that necromancer ain’t designed this way. Necromancer’s design is meant to eat all the hit (which is sad but it fit very well a masochist nature). The specialization suggested stick to this idea, this design. I know, it’s a whole change in gameplay but i really don’t think that it’s not viable. I’d say that not taking any spectral skill in this specialization would just make the necromancer on equal ground (defensivewise) with a A/M zerk warrior or a D/D signet thief.

Shiki.7148:

What he means, I think, is that spectral skills would be changed to incorporate stuff like stability and a block/reflect, aswell as reduced cooldowns. Basically get rid of the extra HP and make us the same as everybody else, in the most bland way possible.

Well you didn’t really grasp it. The spectrals buff worked basically as if we are in DS but without transforming and losing every incoming sustain for our main healthpool. Basically, if you want to go into DS you don’t use F1 but you use a spectral skill. The trad off is that you lose accessibility for better sustain. (That’s theoretical and it certainly need a lot of balance test but that the idea)
Adding block/reflect would be probably really enjoyable but i don’t think it fit the necromancer’s theme. You have to think of spectral skills as “life bubble” that you can still sustain by generating life force. This way, in gamemode with high life force generation (Zerg v Zerg for example) using a spectral skill almost garantee you to survive for the duration of the buff. On the other hand, against a single strong attack (like a boss one hit KO move) you will feel the same way as if you were in DS when it hit you, aka : “Will I have enough LF and health to endure it?”

I don’t want my survival tied to long cool down utility skills because you will essentially force these skills and essentially kill any type of diversity and effectively render the class more predictive and less effective. You would not be able to run wells because you need to have spec skills to survive.

The point of the specialization is that you should still have some interest in playing the non specialized profession. So, Gryph, it’s up to you to choose if you want to try something else in a specialization or stick to your favourite build in the base profession. I think the official statement is that you can change from specialization to base profession in one click or so. 1 specialization won’t satisfy everyone wishes and it shouldn’t.

Remember that it may be something totally different. But for me specialization mean specializing in something not being better at everything in the base profession. This basically mean that each specialization will give another dimension to a part of the profession while other part will feel out of place in it and then better in another specialization or in the base profession.

I’m pretty sure, with some though, you can imagine things that could give the same importance to well/minion/corruption. It doesn’t have to be the same extreme change of “form”, it should just feel as if you are really specializing yourself into something.

ex :
Corruption : they could enhance the number of way to corrupt yourself but give something something valuable in exchange for each time you corrupt yourself. Let’s just imagine that while in this specialization, each time you inflict yourself an alteration, you grant yourself and your party a boon. There are an infinite way to support this by a few change in trait and DS skill for example.

Necromancer is tightly tied to the near OP Death Shroud. I think trying to keep DS while adding other powerful damage mitigation like auto dodges, blocks, etc. Is very difficult for the balance team. Get rid of DS and use LF like adrenaline and that opens up all other offensive and defense capabilities . Then, Necromancer is a dark War.

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancer is tightly tied to the near OP Death Shroud. I think trying to keep DS while adding other powerful damage mitigation like auto dodges, blocks, etc. Is very difficult for the balance team. Get rid of DS and use LF like adrenaline and that opens up all other offensive and defense capabilities . Then, Necromancer is a dark War.

Use LF like Revenants Energy*

Shiki.7148:

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancer is tightly tied to the near OP Death Shroud. I think trying to keep DS while adding other powerful damage mitigation like auto dodges, blocks, etc. Is very difficult for the balance team. Get rid of DS and use LF like adrenaline and that opens up all other offensive and defense capabilities . Then, Necromancer is a dark War.

Use LF like Revenants Energy*

This basically is what I advocate.

Turn life force into a energy resource that can be used to mitigate/negate damage, support allies (protection/healing) and inflict damage/control.

How this is done however is the debate.

hopefully arena.net does something however & looking at the AngryJoe interview they at least seem to have something planned.

Just so this is on the record if Anet is reading this thread, i suggest:

A lupine blast as a DS skill that doesnt require a target and grants invulnerability

A DS heal skill (with ofcourse a cooldown) that consumes Deathshroud and grants the resistance boon.

As someone else mentioned, spectral skills also granting stability (NOT ONE STACK)

Anchoku.8142:

Then, Necromancer is a dark War.

My goodness it’d be amazing

I’d have to hunt down the person named Cecil and conveniently eliminate them, ff4’s my jam
I never played past the class change :l

Ragnar the Rock.3174:

Shiki.7148:

Anchoku.8142:

Necromancer is tightly tied to the near OP Death Shroud. I think trying to keep DS while adding other powerful damage mitigation like auto dodges, blocks, etc. Is very difficult for the balance team. Get rid of DS and use LF like adrenaline and that opens up all other offensive and defense capabilities . Then, Necromancer is a dark War.

Use LF like Revenants Energy*

This basically is what I advocate.

Turn life force into a energy resource that can be used to mitigate/negate damage, support allies (protection/healing) and inflict damage/control.

How this is done however is the debate.

hopefully arena.net does something however & looking at the AngryJoe interview they at least seem to have something planned.

I hope for some bone-skills like the bone wall/bridge thing Marjory uses at some point. A player created terrain that blocks projectiles and cannot be moved through (and possibly knocks people down/back if they stand on where it is initially placed) sounds like a kittening awesome idea

I think it would be cool if we got either
A) f1-4 skills that consume life force.
F1: gives you high regen/Condi clear like troll ungent on ranger but weaker.
F2: some sort of boon STEAL with damage
F3: mobility teleport that removes conditions and does damage
F4: high damage life steal and Condi transfer that consumes a bunch of life force
Each skill provides some sort of sustain, maybe make traits tk give each some sort of AOE anti-Condi boon (blanking on name). These could work great and synergies with some traits like the ones mentioned above (maybe one that causes fear on use). There are many cool things that could be done with this. Seeing as necro is literally an anti-guardian, this wouldn’t be unrealistic as these would be some what like the virtues but without passive effects.

Other possibility:
New shroud: Demon shroud
Red and black instead of green.
Gives brand new shroud skills with full utilities and everything!
No real ideas, but soemthing AoE AA with pretty nice direct damage (I love power necro)

I’m hoping this specialization allows for changing the class color because I’ve always wanted my necro to be red or blue, not green

I think it would be cool if they made gave us F1-F4 skills based on our old death shroud skills (skills 2-4 excluding the main attack) so its like a perma death shroud so then they dont need to give us more defensives

I dunno if this is new or not, and I doubt I’m the first to noticed, but I think I might have seen a tiny hint of what the GS’s AA chain might be like.

Recently, I’ve been running Episode 6 of the living story on alts for the BL key you get at then end, and during the boss fight on the final mission (which is a damage sponge that lasts forever) I’ve noticed that Marjory’s third attack of her AA chain is a different animation than other professions for Human/Sylvari Female. Instead of an uppercut swing (like with War and Guard) or a spin over the left shoulder (like with Ranger) she was swinging her GS at about shoulder/chest level, one-handed from her right side in an about 270 degree arc. She was also applying Chilled on her third attack, and it was almost long enough to keep it up indefinitely.

I know NPCs rarely use remotely the same attacks as players, but considering the rest of Destiny’s Edge 2.0 often use attacks that are very similar to what players can use, it might be a hint of what necros are getting.

We’ve known about that for a while. Some folks refuse to think that could be it for some reason.

I have a feeling the Necro skill they showed off in the Necromancer Skill trailers which was never used, but modified, will be one of the Skills for the Greatsword.

https://youtu.be/zynLH2Jlbw0?t=107

iSmack.1768:

I have a feeling the Necro skill they showed off in the Necromancer Skill trailers which was never used, but modified, will be one of the Skills for the Greatsword.

https://youtu.be/zynLH2Jlbw0?t=107

We already have that one, though.

Dadnir.5038:

I’m almost sure that we are on a total misunderstanding between each other and I find it hard to find the word that could enlighten this misunderstanding…

Well, let’s try :
Actual necromancer
Damage mitigation :
- protection
- blind
- weakness
- Deathshroud

Sustain :
- regeneration
- siphon
- healing skill

Pro
High uptime and easy damage absorption via deathshroud.

Cons
Conflict between damage mitigation and sustain while in deathshroud.

Hypothetic specialization
Damage mitigation :
- protection
- blind
- weakness
- 4 spectral skills transfering incoming damage and condition damage into LF pool

Sustain :
- regeneration
- siphon
- healing skill
- heals from traits

Pro
Good synergy between sustain and damage mitigation skills

Cons
Low damage mitigation uptime.

PS.: I’m coming to the end of this post and I think I’m grasping the meaning of your argumentation. I think, you are basically saying that there is not actual damage mitigation in the way aegis would work or warrior/engi shield#5 work.
The problem is that necromancer ain’t designed this way. Necromancer’s design is meant to eat all the hit (which is sad but it fit very well a masochist nature). The specialization suggested stick to this idea, this design. I know, it’s a whole change in gameplay but i really don’t think that it’s not viable. I’d say that not taking any spectral skill in this specialization would just make the necromancer on equal ground (defensivewise) with a A/M zerk warrior or a D/D signet thief.

From what I understand, your suggestion is a roundabout way of saying you want to enable healing in shroud but your suggestion forces every necro to take spectral skills otherwise they literally cannot use the class mechanic.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

I have a feeling the Necro skill they showed off in the Necromancer Skill trailers which was never used, but modified, will be one of the Skills for the Greatsword.

https://youtu.be/zynLH2Jlbw0?t=107

We already have that one, though.

Not the same effect at all.

iSmack.1768:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

I have a feeling the Necro skill they showed off in the Necromancer Skill trailers which was never used, but modified, will be one of the Skills for the Greatsword.

https://youtu.be/zynLH2Jlbw0?t=107

We already have that one, though.

Not the same effect at all.

The trailer was showing Grasping Dead. The only difference is that Grasping Dead is now a circular AoE instead of a line. Everything else about the skill remained identical.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

I have a feeling the Necro skill they showed off in the Necromancer Skill trailers which was never used, but modified, will be one of the Skills for the Greatsword.

https://youtu.be/zynLH2Jlbw0?t=107

We already have that one, though.

Not the same effect at all.

The trailer was showing Grasping Dead. The only difference is that Grasping Dead is now a circular AoE instead of a line. Everything else about the skill remained identical.

Yes, I know Grasping Dead is in the game. IS THE EFFECT IN THE GAME. NO. I’m talking about the freaking effect.

iSmack.1768:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

I have a feeling the Necro skill they showed off in the Necromancer Skill trailers which was never used, but modified, will be one of the Skills for the Greatsword.

https://youtu.be/zynLH2Jlbw0?t=107

We already have that one, though.

Not the same effect at all.

The trailer was showing Grasping Dead. The only difference is that Grasping Dead is now a circular AoE instead of a line. Everything else about the skill remained identical.

Yes, I know Grasping Dead is in the game. IS THE EFFECT IN THE GAME. NO. I’m talking about the freaking effect.

The effect is skeletal arms reaching up from the ground to damage and bleed foes. What do you think Grasping Dead is?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

iSmack.1768:

I have a feeling the Necro skill they showed off in the Necromancer Skill trailers which was never used, but modified, will be one of the Skills for the Greatsword.

https://youtu.be/zynLH2Jlbw0?t=107

We already have that one, though.

Not the same effect at all.

The trailer was showing Grasping Dead. The only difference is that Grasping Dead is now a circular AoE instead of a line. Everything else about the skill remained identical.

Yes, I know Grasping Dead is in the game. IS THE EFFECT IN THE GAME. NO. I’m talking about the freaking effect.

The effect is skeletal arms reaching up from the ground to damage and bleed foes. What do you think Grasping Dead is?

Is Grasping Dead going in a straight line right now? No. It’s in a circle. Not a straight line.

Check out the Revenants skills, they have several where the effect starts from the player and trails off in a straight line.

The ability for GS is NOT GOING TO CALLED GRASPING DEAD. It’s probably going to be called something else, with different damage/conditions, but with the straight effect.

Anyways. That’s just my speculation. No point arguing about till ANET decides to one day talk about Specialization instead of stuff I personally don’t care about and we get to actually see what the new skills are.

But i speculate one of the new abilities we’ll get for GS is going to be a downward stab, like how mesmers do now, with this straight line of skeleton hands trailing for a certain distance with additional black and green smoke.

So, because the area is different, it’s now a totally different effect? What?

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, because the area is different, it’s now a totally different effect? What?

Yes