As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
Necromancer and Melee
The problem with many necromancer skills is that they are slightly useless or bad compared to other classes skills. You mentioned main hand dagger. Compare Pin Down (which to be fair is blatantly op), to Dark Pact:
Dark Pact
Pin Down
Dark pact has slightly more direct damage, but doesn’t put 12 stacks of bleed, doesn’t pierce, is shorter ranged, and has a longer cast time. Both skills are on the same cooldown. Life Siphon simply doesn’t heal for enough on the long channel. It should be AOE within 600 range on 3 targets to make it more effective. Otherwise it is just a waste because you might be able to mitigate the damage someone else is doing to you with the measly healing it does.
Necros don’t have reflects, invulns, vigor, blocks,
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
extra dodges, real stability, mobility skills,
burst skills, sustain, or good support. GG ANET.
Im kinda playing devil’s advokit hear saying, the damage on Dagger 3 is good for procing the occational on hit effect thing.
As for the HP siphon, it is really weak on the surface, but anyhting that heals in combot and does damage is strong. If your in melee range you gonna take some hits and your healing skill wont always be up, so rolling out of the danger zone and healing 1000 hp, might be the differance between life or death
the dagger is one of the hardest hitting autoattacks(there’s a reason it’s in bold) in the game, but as the game teaches us in…not so nice ways, pressing 1 all the time for damage is less than ideal. other numbers need to be pressed. unfortunately for the brave melee-minded necromancer, the other 2 MH dagger skills have huge cooldowns. by huge i mean 25 or 20 seconds for a 3s+ immobilize with damage on it for some reason.(would anyone miss the damage on dark pact? i wouldn’t) i’d almost go as far to say i wouldn’t miss the HP siphon on dagger#2 because even traited it’s a large cooldown, and for a flurry that’s kind of strange.
Since siphoning on necromancer is already about as effective as edward cullen would be against Dracula, why not just get rid of it for the extra damage instead of the irrelevant heal? if life siphon actually did an additional 1700 damage and was obviously renamed to “Decay” or something, i might actually consider switching back to dagger. blahblah.
LOL @ the Edward Cullen vs. Dracula comment. Yeah, that about sums up the ineffectual life siphoning in GW2. Rather than nerf it even further, though, I think that’s reason to re-examine and improve life siphoning mechanics. Doctoral thesis-level dissertations have already been posted regarding the issue of lackluster life siphoning, so I won’t reiterate them here.
What I will do is thematically compare GW1’s Dark Pact with the GW2 version. The GW1 version was a skill in which you sacrificed 10% of your health to deal moderate damage which was near-spammable (2 second recharge) and extremely low in energy cost (1 energy).
The skill icon depicted a demonic-looking being. This was consistent with the name and function of the skill; a pact being an agreement or contract between two parties and – in this case – a dark pact in which the necro is sacrificing health to gain a low-cost, quick-recharge damage skill.
Many thought the skill to be crap; and it is when viewed as a stand-alone skill out of context. However, for a class with longish skill recharges and high energy costs, it was a viable quick damage dealer. The 10% health sacrifice was easily offset by a GW1 Blood Necro’s (Dark Pact was a Blood Magic skill) superior life siphoning and self-healing capabilities. It still represented edge play as you had to keep an eye on your health and be cognizant of when you could safely afford the health sacrifice and when you could not.
GW2 version of the same skill? Long recharge, low damage, short range 3 second immobilize; and sub-par compared to equivalent skills from other professions, as Lightsbane explained above. That’s it; no health sacrifice, no opportunity cost, no deeper strategy, and very little gain or advantage to using it.
To add some depth to the skill and to reflect its heritage, perhaps some changes could be made:
- In addition to its current function, how about we sacrifice health, but gain life force.
- Maybe we life siphon for each second the opponent remains immobilized or when the immobilization ends. Throw in an initial health sacrifice, too, in the interest of balance and consistent with the name Dark Pact. The life siphoned will out-heal the health sacrificed if the immobilization lasts long enough.
- We lose health for each second the immobilization remains in effect. When the immobilization ends on the opponent, we’re healed for 2x the amount of health lost.
- Sacrifice health on triggering the skill. For each second the target remains immobilized, the skill’s recharge is reduced by X seconds (somewhere between 2 and 5).
All of the above represent the theme of the skill as it existed in GW1; the necro sacrifices something (their health) in exchange for some benefit. It would be nice to see more skills like that added to the Blood Necro’s repertoire in GW2 as well as improvements to life siphoning in general.
So many souls, so little time. ~ Kraag Deadsoul
the dagger is one of the hardest hitting autoattacks(there’s a reason it’s in bold) in the game, but as the game teaches us in…not so nice ways, pressing 1 all the time for damage is less than ideal. other numbers need to be pressed. unfortunately for the brave melee-minded necromancer, the other 2 MH dagger skills have huge cooldowns. by huge i mean 25 or 20 seconds for a 3s+ immobilize with damage on it for some reason.(would anyone miss the damage on dark pact? i wouldn’t) i’d almost go as far to say i wouldn’t miss the HP siphon on dagger#2 because even traited it’s a large cooldown, and for a flurry that’s kind of strange.
Since siphoning on necromancer is already about as effective as edward cullen would be against Dracula, why not just get rid of it for the extra damage instead of the irrelevant heal? if life siphon actually did an additional 1700 damage and was obviously renamed to “Decay” or something, i might actually consider switching back to dagger. blahblah.
LOL @ the Edward Cullen vs. Dracula comment. Yeah, that about sums up the ineffectual life siphoning in GW2. Rather than nerf it even further, though, I think that’s reason to re-examine and improve life siphoning mechanics. Doctoral thesis-level dissertations have already been posted regarding the issue of lackluster life siphoning, so I won’t reiterate them here.
What I will do is thematically compare GW1’s Dark Pact with the GW2 version. The GW1 version was a skill in which you sacrificed 10% of your health to deal moderate damage which was near-spammable (2 second recharge) and extremely low in energy cost (1 energy).
The skill icon depicted a demonic-looking being. This was consistent with the name and function of the skill; a pact being an agreement or contract between two parties and – in this case – a dark pact in which the necro is sacrificing health to gain a low-cost, quick-recharge damage skill.
Many thought the skill to be crap; and it is when viewed as a stand-alone skill out of context. However, for a class with longish skill recharges and high energy costs, it was a viable quick damage dealer. The 10% health sacrifice was easily offset by a GW1 Blood Necro’s (Dark Pact was a Blood Magic skill) superior life siphoning and self-healing capabilities. It still represented edge play as you had to keep an eye on your health and be cognizant of when you could safely afford the health sacrifice and when you could not.
GW2 version of the same skill? Long recharge, low damage, short range 3 second immobilize; and sub-par compared to equivalent skills from other professions, as Lightsbane explained above. That’s it; no health sacrifice, no opportunity cost, no deeper strategy, and very little gain or advantage to using it.
To add some depth to the skill and to reflect its heritage, perhaps some changes could be made:
- In addition to its current function, how about we sacrifice health, but gain life force.
- Maybe we life siphon for each second the opponent remains immobilized or when the immobilization ends. Throw in an initial health sacrifice, too, in the interest of balance and consistent with the name Dark Pact. The life siphoned will out-heal the health sacrificed if the immobilization lasts long enough.
- We lose health for each second the immobilization remains in effect. When the immobilization ends on the opponent, we’re healed for 2x the amount of health lost.
- Sacrifice health on triggering the skill. For each second the target remains immobilized, the skill’s recharge is reduced by X seconds (somewhere between 2 and 5).
All of the above represent the theme of the skill as it existed in GW1; the necro sacrifices something (their health) in exchange for some benefit. It would be nice to see more skills like that added to the Blood Necro’s repertoire in GW2 as well as improvements to life siphoning in general.
well you describing what the skill used to be certainly isn’t helping my cynicism about the profession which i’m writing about. i love this class to death(ha.) but it just seems that the more i play it(up to 2k hours on necro) the more i think the game wants me dead, whether to just be ironic or simply adorable. and to go back to the edward vs dracula comment, i think i’ll revise it:
all of us made our necromancers expecting them to be on equal footing with Mannimarco, but instead we’re count chocula.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
(edited by Lightsbane.9012)
well you describing what the skill used to be certainly isn’t helping my cynicism about the profession which i’m writing about. i love this class to death(ha.) but it just seems that the more i play it(up to 2k hours on necro) the more i think the game wants me dead, whether to just be ironic or simply adorable. and to go back to the edward vs dracula comment, i think i’ll revise it:
all of us made our necromancers expecting them to be on equal footing with Mannimarco, but instead we’re count chocula.
Couldn’t agree more. With 4,000+ hours put into my GW2 blood necro, I’m acutely aware of just how weak it is in comparison to my 7+ year blood necro from GW1. Now that was what a blood necro should be.
Juggling my and my enemy’s health, true attrition and sustain, edge play to the max, being within a few health points of dying only to pop back to 50% health while completely demoralizing an opponent if played skillfully, accused of hacking by players who didn’t have a clue what they were up against…ahh, those were the days!
So many souls, so little time. ~ Kraag Deadsoul
yeah hit’s a little sad. maybe they were going for a quasi-ritualist thing. i guess i could see one of those using daggers.
As quick as the Valkyries ride,
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
As true as Odin’s spear flies,
There is nowhere to hide.
What confuses me is dagger is a fast attacking weapon yet Siphon on it is a slow drain and #3 has a bleh cast, well not to bad for what it does. Thing is with how fast the dagger is wish Siphon was a DoT + HoT you could curse your target with a physical damage DoT. I also wish the #5 skil for dagger was not a targeted one and fast casting. #4 is great, decent damage, a blind and condi transfer. The #5 skill needs some work, it it was like Ele staff #3, weak damage but an aoe that you didn’t need to aim + instant cast it would be sooo nice.
The #2 is horrible. Need either increased damage and same heal spread, OR needs decreased damage and higher healing. Seems like everytime I use it, I actually lose more health by the time the channel finishes due to the damage being done as I’m stuck in it. Might as well have just stuck to #1 and done more damage.
A better idea for #2 is to scrap it, make it a poison attack that with each pulse of poison on target heals you. The poison app alone would make it invaluable!
The #3 is good, but the CD is too high.
“Be like water” – Bruce Lee
I agree, this is what annoys me about the necro… it just lacks flow with it’s abilities etc. It’s like nobody sat down and fleshed out how skills should work with each other.
I think the fact that dagger 2 is 600 range is being overlooked. You can use it to kite and gain some health or to keep up pressure when someone creates some space. For the damage and heal at range with a shorter cooldown, it’s not a bad skill. It’s sort of weird, but not bad.
I think its more of an issue that Dagger does not cleave and well it has high AA damage its other skills do not hit that hard and Necros lack of stability or other combat mobility skills make it near impossible to stay on a target that doesn’t want to be there.
so necro melee comes down to.
no stability, no gap closers, no block aegis evade, no cleave.
really dagger should be a close range weapon MH making the timers shorter and all attacks life siphon (to balance out the fact we are in melee with a bunch of draw backs) and maybe add something that allows crits with a dagger to chill so we can keep a target close.
It was 2 vs 20 but its ok we got’em both!
Cleaving isn’t the main trouble with dagger, its problem is that there’s no combos you can pull off for burst damage – it’s extremely high, steady damage. I suppose it’s consistent with the necro’s “attrition” paradigm, but the thing is if you’re in damage gear like zerker you gotta go all out and deliver your damage and then run off before you get squelched.
Good thing we’ve at least got Deathly Perception,s o people can go into DS and deliver those last 5k damage or so in a single blast – it’s the closest you can get to “burst”.
A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.