Guild Wars 2

lettucemode.3789:

So…the only difference between your actual definition of “unique” and what I assumed it to be is semantics. :P

Oh great, you again.

Semantics are important, definitions are important, otherwise what we get are people like you with definitions so broad as to include mutually exclusive things.

And as to the Necromancer mechanics you pointed out earlier, if you had read my original post, which at this point I am convinced that you have not, or at the very least did not understand it, you would know that I already dealt with this issue.
The problem with all of those mechanics aside from DS, is that they are in chronic short supply, to border on worthless.

While I will give a pass to condition transfer, even if it was a exceedingly minor part of the original, so they have that in their corner. They could still stand to have more skills.

But Life Stealing on the other hand is unexcusable, and if you don’t understand why at this point, I am not going to spell it out for you. Go back and read the original post.

Fear on the other hand, sure it’s unique, but it’s dumb as a sack of hammers.
It’s a boring condition, and maybe if there were more sources at the Necromancers disposal then maybe I wouldn’t have as much of a issue with it, but being both dull and in short supply, it ultimately has little to no impact on the profession as a whole.

-

DS I have already dismantled, twice.
I am not going to reiterate.

As for the other profession, if you expect me to hold your bloody hand like a 5 year old and walk you through each and every profession, and explain how they work, then you have another thing coming.
Even if I did walk you down the golden brick road, I am not convinced that you would even accept what I showed you.
I’m also fairly certain you never played the original, which would explain a lot.

Being unique is only half the battle, it’s what you do with thous unique things is what really matters.

The very few unique things that the Necromancer have are in short supply, and half of them really are just not very interesting, where as the vast majority of what they profession does and spends the majority of is time doing, is something that other professions can do also, as well as being painfully generic.

Your scraping are morsels and calling it a full course meal.
I call it out for what it really is.

Yoh.8469:

Fear on the other hand, sure it’s unique, but it’s dumb as a sack of hammers.
It’s a boring condition, and maybe if there were more sources at the Necromancers disposal then maybe I wouldn’t have as much of a issue with it, but being both dull and in short supply, it ultimately has little to no impact on the profession as a whole.

There are builds made completely around Fear, that do very well in PvP scenarios. To write it off simply because you don’t like it, is silly.

Yoh.8469:

Oh great, you again.

Semantics are important, definitions are important, otherwise what we get are people like you with definitions so broad as to include mutually exclusive things.

Please dont mix semen and semantics..

clap clap excellent rebuttals to an honest and fair opinion by Yoh that most people including myself support. Your skill in the art of language is truly commendable.

But yes, Necro is awful sadly.

Now that we’re almost a year since BWE#1, is the GW2 Necro more like the GW1 Derv???

The thing I miss most about the GW1 necro, and I can’t believe anyone has mentioned it yet … the thriller dance.

:D

Swamurabi.7890:

Now that we’re almost a year since BWE#1, is the GW2 Necro more like the GW1 Derv???

I didn’t play tons of Dervish, so I can’t say for sure, but from what I remember a lot of the dervish’s uniqueness came from the application and then forced removal of enchantments (GW1 equivalent of boons) to deal more damage, control, defense, etc. That kind of play style is very different to Necromancers.

Bhawb.7408:

Swamurabi.7890:

Now that we’re almost a year since BWE#1, is the GW2 Necro more like the GW1 Derv???

I didn’t play tons of Dervish, so I can’t say for sure, but from what I remember a lot of the dervish’s uniqueness came from the application and then forced removal of enchantments (GW1 equivalent of boons) to deal more damage, control, defense, etc. That kind of play style is very different to Necromancers.

What I meant by GW1 Derv is that it was a class that had it’s uniqueness, a scythe, but other classes could use it better. Everyone at Anet knew that and were always talking about a Derv buff in the future, which became the Dervs flash enchantments.

Dervs weren’t the favorite class to take in dungeon runs. When I started playing GW1 elitism and “LF UWSC T1 T2 (50+)” were well established. By the time the buff finally was released, GW2 beta was being talked about.

We haven’t reached that point in the game yet, nor does GW2 require much min/maxing in its PvE content (at least yet). Only if you are looking at very specific things like speed runs will most people actually kick you out of a group. You might have to deal with people complaining, but I haven’t ever actually been removed from a group for being a necro yet. This might not be the case in high level fractals though.

Bhawb.7408:

We haven’t reached that point in the game yet, nor does GW2 require much min/maxing in its PvE content (at least yet). Only if you are looking at very specific things like speed runs will most people actually kick you out of a group. You might have to deal with people complaining, but I haven’t ever actually been removed from a group for being a necro yet. This might not be the case in high level fractals though.

I think i mentioned it a few times already, except in mass farms of maw, even post 20 or 30 people wont kick you, just have enough AR (e.g. having 25 despite only being level 16 on fractals, but was in a nice count of 30+s), hell you can even be missing one or two infusions if you can generate LF back fast enough for DS to eat the agony.

Hello
I’m fairly new to the game. I have a lv 40 necro and hes kinda fun.
I do want to support the OP on a lot of things. Mainly the lack of synergy and overall failure to grasp a solid function from any particular build well.

Btw, I myself attempted a fear based build and it did not work out so well. XD. You need to have a lot of condition damage/duration, health/armor, cdr on staff, cdr on DS, tons of soul stealing support, and you are left with a very mildly annoying build. My opinion anyways. All the condition removal stuff shuts most conditionmancers down to the ground.

Anyways, I honestly feel that ArenaNet has done such great work with all the other classes and then when they came to the Necro they just.. kinda slapped some stuff together. Lol. Like wtf is DS? U can pop off a couple of skills in dire moments (in group fights) and its gone. After all the time it took to get it there lol.

Personally i think they just took a little of every class and mushed it together to make the mess that is the necro. I love necros. But the designers probably look at necros and go “Yeah who cares about Necros we made em, they’re done. Now lets try to find cool new ways thieves and mesmers can go 1v3 and come out on top! And new fun mechanics! Yay!”

Necros are globs of meat thrown into fights to do a bit of support and annoy the other classes with their pesky conditions until they get knocked down, immobilized, slammed, and other forms of CC until they are done… Oh and dazed.

Necros are like big helpless balls of health, with more health from their DS, and absolutely no threat.

I’ve been watching some of the videos on all the different stuff Theives and mesmers can do. It’s freaking awesome. T_T for all the necros out there.

I would have previously agreed with OP on the death shroud thing, but now that I’m using Nemesis.8593’s “ultimate hybrid” build where I use the 1 and 4 abilities of DS in my normal attack rotations I feel like this was the way it was intended to be used, and it is extremely effective as a means of continuing to dish out damage in between long skill/weapon cooldowns, but it could defnitely be improved some more, I mean I don’t even remember what abilities 2 and 3 do because I’ve never used them aside from spamming all my abilities when I am about to die.

I wholeheartedly agree with the general sentiment though, the Necro is pretty much the only class that doesn’t have any kind of cool tricks it can do and it’s weapon skills are definitely not prone to inventive play. Before switching to Nemesis’s cool build I played a self-designed minion build and the only thing I ever did was stand around autoattacking monsters with scepter while my minions tanked and killed it. It worked, but it was boring as hell.

It was just like playing WoW.

Seriously, ANet, get some attention on this thread: This exemplifies, in my opinion, almost every single issue with Necromancers as-is.

I mean jesus. He neglected to go into PvP, but in summation every version of Necro is just plain bad at PvP except minion master at the moment, and that’s ONLY if there’s not a single Mesmer anywhere. Conditionmancer sucks because, as Yoh said “removal is a dime-a-dozen”. VitMancer or DrainMancer has been terrible since day one..

I mean really, please, fix this poor class. I LOVE the old Necro class, I want to love this one, but dear god if it isn’t plain awful right now. If nothing else, buff scepter for PvP, and make there be more than 2 ways to play the Necro (scepter/dagger or staff). There’s almost no synergy in this class as-is, and it’s dauntingly sad. It has the potential to be so unique, so colorful (even though we all wear black :P), and it’s just.. not. It’s dull to play and even if you do play it perfectly, it’s still worse (at least in PvP) than every other class. Please, give us some love

I totally agree with what is posted by the OP and want the necro skills back from gw1.

Necro jack of all traits, master of none..

Oh and anyone ever tried to blast their own fields? trew out their finishers and nothing happened because a enemy has to activate it? I mean wtf..

I can buff any character up with loads of boons before battle..

As for the necro:
-3 secs of non stacking protection, sacrificing hp for 20 stacks of might for a few secs activated trough enemies..
-Little to no regen on 1 mark, that has to be activated, by enemies..
-Converting conditions into boons….. in battle, on a tiny well where you have to stay put in order to have it work properly. rly?
-Lifedrain on crits.. while wearing light armor.. lmao..

And let us not speak about the activation time of all skills…

Necro’s need a blast in utilities, and some boons that actually matter, i mean.. i really enjoy protection, for 3 seconds, in a designated area, while wasting your highest dps utilities to do so…

Compared too

Mesmer: 1 field in front[any] walk into it.. leap finisher to create a clone, add retaliation and other funn stuff to the clone .. yourself and others.. while retreating out of the aoe area…… while just using 2 skills..

Thief: 1 click.. ah nvm..

Warrior: instabuffs for everyone!

Guardian: … no comment

Ranger: Well.. ok.. maybe rangers had it rough too at times.. but now get ubered ..

Engie: Can buff up solo.

Elementalist: Aaaaarghhhhh…..

@Simmerless: The 1hp build you’re referring to is the 1hp BiP Necro (If you think it’s on the nose, just be glad ‘WAY’ wasn’t slapped to the end of it). The idea behind the build was that by using your Death Penalty and a full set of Superior Runes (Each Superior Rune in GW1 reduced your health by 75. Peanuts in GW2, but in GW1 the average health pool was around 200hp-300hp. Been awhile but that’s what comes to mind). Normally there’s no advantage to having 1hp besides trolling your team mates, however the Necromancer’s skill pool having Health Sacrifice skills benefitted from this. One skill in particularly, the original Blood is Power would sacrifice 33% of your health to give a huge boost to energy regen. Instead of having a cooldown for the skill, Anet figured its cool down was your health because you could in fact kill yourself if you spammed the skill. In terms of game mechanics, 33% of 1hp was 0. So by being the living definition of Glass, you were able to give your entire party a permanent energy regen buff.

I’d never heard of it being used PvP, but I could see it making its way there, though likely not into the high tier meta. Any form of Health Degen though would kill the Necro, even if you could prevent all direct damage to him. So very much a liability. The thing about this build was it was largely a niche farming tool, particularly in Voltaic Spear Farm runs. Due to the incredibly fragile nature of the Necro, it was very difficult to actively put this specific form of Battery into most builds, and keeping him alive could quickly become more of a liability, especially if your necro was terrible at positioning himself. So if I thought MM builds in GW1 were niche… well this thing is kind of like Hipster Niche.

I would like to clarify that Battery Necros were by no means redundant in general PvE play. I’m just saying that this particular Battery Build was.

Also in reference to the Elitism being mentioned(can’t remember who. too lazy to hit back and check >__>) (UWSC, SoOSC, etc…) you are kind of taking this form of Elitism out of context. This Elitism does exist in GW2 in the same manner it existed in GW1. The difference is it’s not as prevalent because it’s not as lucrative. The Elitism being described is specifically the Elitism that arises from people who farm the same content over and over again, and are coincidentally usually the same group of people who artificially gate content to ensure only ‘the best’ are admitted into their speed clear groups. In GW2 this is pretty much the domain of the ‘4 Wars, 1 Mes’ CoF speed clears. But because CoF is easy as hell to begin with, it’s impossible for them to gate an entire section of the game like was seen both Underworld, Shards of Orr, and other higher difficulty areas. Because the content is more or less playable by all brackets of players, they are unable to make as large an impact on the game as they had in GW1.

However as the game progresses, more forms of Elitism will likely become more prevalent. As mentioned above, Players will gate content, be it for farming or for general play. I think Anet decision to prevent people from inspecting one another was a good step towards preventing it for as long as possible to keep players from incurring gear requirements on one another. How many people here from GW1 had their Paragon kicked because it wasn’t running the generic Imbagon build? How many Necros for not running SS? Hell… how many Warriors got kicked because PermaSins took over for tanking? Eventually the PvX version of Guild Wars 2 and people will be gated for not running particular builds on particular characters in particular places. Thankfully we haven’t reached that point yet, but it will likely happen sooner or later.

It kind of already happened at professional levels of tPvP…

tPvP doesn’t have nearly the amount of people playing it to exclude anything. Right now it’s merely a case of stale meta because so few people are playing it. They also quite literally can’t exclude you at all, unless they are willing to leave a game solely to spite someone they don’t think is running a “good enough” build.

Bull Zooker.1672:

crazyace I play different builds and variations of builds on my necro almost every time I log in. saying we have 3 builds is not right. conditions, support, power and hybrid. each have many different builds within those types. I would say we have the best build diversity in game.

thats kinda the problem we do have diversity but were a Jack of all trades, and master of none ,the issue in general is not with olny one specific or particular skill that is dissapointing its the entire class ……the best way to fix it would be a a complete overhaul
just look it up there was a pole on this forum and necro was the least played class of all in both pvp and pve
And the trophy Ladyes and gentlemen for the most played classes of the game goes to ….drumm roll plz….. the mesmer and the elementist ,for the most unstopable clases in the game

I disagree. I started with the Necro and made the rounds making an 80 of each class (exotic gear on all). Now that I have finished, I am back to Necro having loads of fun. I had so much fun tonight in WvW that I am sure I’ll be playing the Necro as my main in the future. In WvW I thought I was having fun with my thief… I thought I was having fun with my elementalist… I thought I was having fun with my mesmer… I thought I was having fun with my warrior… but in the end, my Necro has taken center stage. Starting with a Necro, imo, made all the subsequent classes I played easy to get used to. Also, Fractals are the easiest to run with my Necro, including other dungeons.

I didn’t play GW1 so I had no expectations as to what the class should be like. And let me remind the OP, you said this was about the Necro in GW2. So, all I can guess is maybe your expectations have been misplaced, because I wouldn’t describe them as too high. My expectations have been met and exceeded. I really like the flow of the class and the design. DS has become a bonus that I didn’t have with any other class. It feels like a “Get out of jail FREE” card. HA HAAAAA

With the Necro I feel like a veritable Swiss Army knife. I feel like it’s only going to get better as I impove.

I’m lovin’ it

Brindled.2179:

I disagree. I started with the Necro and made the rounds making an 80 of each class (exotic gear on all). Now that I have finished, I am back to Necro having loads of fun. I had so much fun tonight in WvW that I am sure I’ll be playing the Necro as my main in the future. In WvW I thought I was having fun with my thief… I thought I was having fun with my elementalist… I thought I was having fun with my mesmer… I thought I was having fun with my warrior… but in the end, my Necro has taken center stage. Starting with a Necro, imo, made all the subsequent classes I played easy to get used to. Also, Fractals are the easiest to run with my Necro, including other dungeons.

I didn’t play GW1 so I had no expectations as to what the class should be like. And let me remind the OP, you said this was about the Necro in GW2. So, all I can guess is maybe your expectations have been misplaced, because I wouldn’t describe them as too high. My expectations have been met and exceeded. I really like the flow of the class and the design. DS has become a bonus that I didn’t have with any other class. It feels like a “Get out of jail FREE” card. HA HAAAAA

With the Necro I feel like a veritable Swiss Army knife. I feel like it’s only going to get better as I impove.

I’m lovin’ it

Thats the general problem why should one class be more dificult than the rest u said it yourself

“Starting with a Necro, imo, made all the subsequent classes I played easy to get used to”

but should eny game require you to play every class just to know what to do against it while you are stuck on just one built thats is effective ? the best built ive seen so far and tryed is condition necro what about the rest ? you gota be stuck in only one path ?

The hole point of this post was the lack of the number of pets as was in the previous game, verry long cd on summons even with traits ,and in general a weak necromancer who is more or less glass in comparison with the other clases

P.S. Next time u are in WvW try minion master built and see how completly inefective it is

It feels to me like most of the people defending ArenaNet’s Necro choices are WvWers.

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

It feels to me like most of the people defending ArenaNet’s Necro choices are WvWers.

Thats probably because most people like the plethora of aoe that necros can dish onto enemy invaders and thus massing badges, not that i like wvwvw (and i do “defend” the necro profession, despite my wishes to fix a lot of flaws), but i see why people mostly come from a wvwvw standpoint since the necro currently shines the most there.

Andele.1306:

TheMightyAltroll.3485:

It feels to me like most of the people defending ArenaNet’s Necro choices are WvWers.

Thats probably because most people like the plethora of aoe that necros can dish onto enemy invaders and thus massing badges, not that i like wvwvw (and i do “defend” the necro profession, despite my wishes to fix a lot of flaws), but i see why people mostly come from a wvwvw standpoint since the necro currently shines the most there.

It shines the most there true… That’s not saying a whole lot when nearly every other class shines in all modes of play; and shines brighter. The OP was not even suggesting whether or not the Necro was under powered or not. The main point the OP is trying to convey is how boring the class is in comparison to the rest and I completely agree.

Even the weapon choices i feel were chosen like a bottom-of-the-barrel situation. Mesmers got the Greatsword (originally a Necro compatible weapon in GW1) AND the longsword. Elementalists have a very wide range of fun weapons including a greatsword just from their skills. I mean.. a Warhorn? srsly? Didn’t want to give that to any of their favored professions. And that’s what really irks me. The obviousness of their lack of love for the Necro profession and the favoritism shown to the others.

I just keep having this movie play out in my mind on when they started on the Necro development. Something to the effect of:

necro dev meeting room…. bits of scrap paper pointing out a few standard cliche Necro abilities (minions, Aoe, lifesteal). Devs giddily sharing ideas on how to implement fun mechanics for Mesmers, ele’s, thieves etc and writing them down in their touchpads.

TheDevice.2751:

I mean.. a Warhorn? srsly? Didn’t want to give that to any of their favored professions. And that’s what really irks me.

Say that to any warrior (most buffed for no need except change to date class) about the second strongest offhand they have.

Andele.1306:

TheDevice.2751:

I mean.. a Warhorn? srsly? Didn’t want to give that to any of their favored professions. And that’s what really irks me.

Say that to any warrior (most buffed for no need except change to date class) about the second strongest offhand they have.

Well you missed the point. WARhorns make sense on a… Warrior. And its not even about the effects. Most gemers I’ve come across are Sword fans in some shape or another. I would have even taken a Hammer as a substitute for the now unusable GS on the Necro. And warriors also have other fun weapons like a GS, Ham, LS, etc.

Basically:

The necro is not fun as an attrition class.
The necro is not fun as a minion class.
The necro has a small amount of unique skills
The necro’s deathshroud is uninspired and awful
——————————-

Yup I agree with all this.

A lot of the ‘boredom’ for me comes in the difficulty in testing builds in pve / wvw. You basically need a ton of cash & inventory space to play around with builds and stats. The whole trait system really forces people into one style of play. I know it is a minimal cost to re-trait, but how many people actually do this? I’m guessing the vast majority stick to one set of traits and never change out.

Something that always bothers me about GW2 is the lack of diversity / encouragement to experiment across the board. I’d love to try out a MM build for pve, a well condition build for wvw and a power build for dungeons but needing three complete armour and jewelry sets for each build is stopping me. I might as well pick one and just play through all the content one way, which means I get insanely bored with the class without even trying out the majority of skills or builds.

sPvP is a different kettle of fish but still with only one game type I can imagine build diversity is pretty rare.

As for the necro itself being ‘boring’, I can’t really comment as I have only played condition builds due to all of the above.

Space.8053:

As for the necro itself being ‘boring’, I can’t really comment as I have only played condition builds due to all of the above.

That’s one thing I find unique about the Necro. Theres a Necro build to suit every playstyle, whether it be melee DPS, ranged DPS, condition, power, hybrid, bunker, bunker buster. It might not be the best but it is something you can spec for.

I started as a conditionmancer, ran through PvE and while normal mobs weren’t a problem, Vets, Champs and Bosses seemed to take a long time to down. As I switched to more WvW play, mainly focusing on zerg running, I started out with the conditionmancer build with BiP, CB and Epidemic. Got to the point where I knew when to use CB. However I had the feeling most times that I wasn’t helping. The loot bags were few.

Then I switched to Wellomancer and like the build better than anything else. I do like staff ele as the best zerg support, but the loot bags don’t compare when I’m on my Necro.

Regarding the subject of this thread, the necromancer is neither dead nor boring as the profession has some amazing potential [emphasis added] for build diversity. Nonetheless, I can identify with some of the points the OP mentioned. The profession has some way to go for it to be in the same league as the guardian in terms of balance and utility.

LameFox.6349:

Life transfer especially feels very meek to me. I didn’t play GW1 so I’m not familiar with what it was there, but seeing the traits and handful of skills necro has made me think I’d be able to actually build around that…

I feel the same. For a long while, I was running an end-game build with 30 points in Blood Magic that focused on lifestealing. Paired with the now defunct lifesteal food, this build was a lot of fun and quite viable and certainly not OP as proponents of the nerf would suggest. As they stand now, the lifesteal traits on their own are rather underwhelming and not worth the investment. That’s really a shame because the original conception of my necromancer was actually a vampire!

I’ve been playing around with a 10/30/0/0/30 berzerker build with Knight’s jewelery for some toughness, each fitted with a berzerker jewel. My health is about 3k less than before, but if I get the hang of working DS in a more judicious manner, I might be able to offset the reduced health pool. My goal is to cause as much instantaneous damage as I can with this build, so I have essentially ignored condition based weapons like the scepter and (unfortunately) the staff. I’m still testing the build, so we’ll see…

I couldn’t agree more with the points raised. I miss my Gw1 Necro’s silly awesome builds. The skills were just more unique and niche!

Look at Dark Aura: (for those who never played gw1 the numbers would have changed depending on how invested you were into Death magic Also life totals were around 600 not 20k)

Enchantment Spell. (30 seconds). Deals 5-41 damage to adjacent foes whenever target ally sacrifices Health. Damage cost: you lose 5-17 Health.

That sounds awesome does it not? In fact if you want to be amazed on how skills used to be go scroll through this: http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/List_of_necromancer_skills

I miss our old capabilities.

I feel the same about Blood Magic. I wish we could sacrifice hp to support others or do damage. I liked that alot in the first game.

carabidus.6214:

LameFox.6349:

Life transfer especially feels very meek to me. I didn’t play GW1 so I’m not familiar with what it was there, but seeing the traits and handful of skills necro has made me think I’d be able to actually build around that…

I feel the same. For a long while, I was running an end-game build with 30 points in Blood Magic that focused on lifestealing. Paired with the now defunct lifesteal food, this build was a lot of fun and quite viable and certainly not OP as proponents of the nerf would suggest. As they stand now, the lifesteal traits on their own are rather underwhelming and not worth the investment. That’s really a shame because the original conception of my necromancer was actually a vampire!

The life steal food basically carried any and all vampire builds, with the traits just there for the thematic.

If this was not the case, then going without the food should have a minimal impact on the experience. But as you say, without the food the traits seem underwhelming.

In high lvl tPvP necros are beyond good. A well played condi necros can completely dominate a team battle and are some of the best at 1v1s.

Not to mention that power and MM builds are not only viable but very good now when played right. Good luck trying to take a point from a soldier MM by yourself.

ALL of our weapons are good and have there places in the above builds giving the necromancer a wide array of options/builds that should make most classes jealous.

In PVE I can’t even comprehend how some one could complain about the necromancer, so I’m not even going to touch on that.

In WvW we can’t get caught in 1v2 situations because of our lack of escape mechanics(by design), but excel in team fights. Run with a premade group and wreck shop.

Its true, I liked the gw1 necromancer more. But in gw2 the necromancer is not even close to being bad, dead or boring!

The opinion of a rank 40+, lvl 80, 30,000 WvW kills beta necro.

What gets me bored sometimes is the few weapons to choose.

Alkaline.2809:

What gets me bored sometimes is the few weapons to choose.

How is that when all of our weapons are viable and good? The only valid complaint I see about weapons is that staff is a must in most builds.

Few is also relative, we are somewhere in the middle (tied with mesmers, below guardians, warriors, and rangers, but above everyone else) when it comes to weapon sets (I think we are just behind mesmers when it comes to # of total weapons).

Login.5102:

Alkaline.2809:

What gets me bored sometimes is the few weapons to choose.

How is that when all of our weapons are viable and good? The only valid complaint I see about weapons is that staff is a must in most builds.

Remember this about “fun” not “good”.

The Axe would be my favourite weapon if it felt like I was doing something with #1. I don’t care if it inflicts how many seconds of this or that, or if it cleaves. I just want it to look less lame then my Necro swatting at an enemy with an axe. Make the cuts come out faster or improve the sound- Make my necro swing more aggressively! Axe #2 and #3 look great and feel great to use!

DEATH SHROUD lackluster? “I only use it when I’m close to dying / to escape.” SERIOUSLY?

it’s an additional stun break (F1 – 3)
it’s an additional “life bar” to absorb your enemy’s burst
it’s a gap closer + aoe chill
and for frak’s sake get out of it (F1) if you’re a conditionmancer after using 3 and / or 2 to continue with your rotation …

CHIPS.6018:

Where did Jon Peters said that “All of you necros are bad players”? Please provide link please.

If he did say that, we in the necro community deserves a very detailed explanation and clarification from him. Show us what we are doing wrong. Prove that we suck by demonstrating how to beat elite players from other professions.

I’m not providing the following as “proof” that Jon Peters said that “All of you necros are bad players”? (he did not directly say this). It’s simply the source material from which some players have inferred that one developer’s opinion of the Necromancer as being a potentially very powerful class is inconsistent with their experiences.

Here

And here

flozn.3410:

DEATH SHROUD lackluster? “I only use it when I’m close to dying / to escape.” SERIOUSLY?

it’s an additional stun break (F1 – 3)
it’s an additional “life bar” to absorb your enemy’s burst
it’s a gap closer + aoe chill
and for frak’s sake get out of it (F1) if you’re a conditionmancer after using 3 and / or 2 to continue with your rotation …

Just for the record, doom isn’t a stun break. You can use it while stunned / knock-downed, but it doesn’t actually clear the control effect from you.

Still loving my Necro, although this thread is hilarious. For awhile I only thought the STO forums geeked out this much, but I was proven wrong this day…

Much love to the other Necromancers loving the class and doing well in all aspects of GW2. (^_^)

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

CHIPS.6018:

Where did Jon Peters said that “All of you necros are bad players”? Please provide link please.

If he did say that, we in the necro community deserves a very detailed explanation and clarification from him. Show us what we are doing wrong. Prove that we suck by demonstrating how to beat elite players from other professions.

I’m not providing the following as “proof” that Jon Peters said that “All of you necros are bad players”? (he did not directly say this). It’s simply the source material from which some players have inferred that one developer’s opinion of the Necromancer as being a potentially very powerful class is inconsistent with their experiences.

Here

And here

6 months ago we had a world of issues that have since been fixed or minimalized. Death Shroud is an extremely powerful tool for the Necromancer. The problem is the conditionmancer can’t use it 90 percent of the time, and the powermancer has no way to escape a fight once he starts, and since DS gets absolutely wrecked by one big burst that leaves us with a bitter taste in some fights.

Having said that and talking to numerous Necromancers, Rangers, Guardians, and Mesmer’s who wvwvw and tournament at the highest levels. The Necromancer borders on scary op when protected by his teammates.

A high level mesmer said it best. "You kill the necromancer in tournaments, because if you don’t he kills your team. They are really squishy if they are condition specced and they can’t get away so if you can control their teammates they go down, and you can breathe a sigh of relief. "

Oscicat, wvwvw havoc squad mesmer, in the most recent Mesmerized Podcast: "Necromancers are the most frustrating class to fight, because even when you think you kill them they have that green ooze thing that means you have to do it again. They won’t ever blow you up, but they completely control the fight. They protect their teammates, prevent you from focusing on their buddies, and the good ones just keep the fight going longer than you want.

They are tougher than any other class to kill because they know they can’t get away. Every fight is a fight to the death for the team with the Necro so it’s completely different than anything else. 1v1 I will kill a Necro but in a group the good ones will completely control the fight with fears, chills, and if you get two Necros. MY GOD BLINDS EVERYWHERE!

So when you enter the fight with that Necro, you have to prepare yourself to kill or be killed. They won’t quit because they can’t." Check out the Mesmerized Podcast where Oscicat talks for about 15 minutes about fighting a good Necro.

A guardian told me, the only downside to a necro is they have no mobility so you can really only play the Two node which means any team that faces you knows exactly how to play you.

Finally, the top ranger on the EU side, “Necromancers are both hilarious and frustrating. They can completely wipe out any team, but they are easy to spot, dodge, and once you learn their cast animations you can prevent a large portion of their damage. If you mess up though they are crazy.”

Bas.7406:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

CHIPS.6018:

Where did Jon Peters said that “All of you necros are bad players”? Please provide link please.

If he did say that, we in the necro community deserves a very detailed explanation and clarification from him. Show us what we are doing wrong. Prove that we suck by demonstrating how to beat elite players from other professions.

I’m not providing the following as “proof” that Jon Peters said that “All of you necros are bad players”? (he did not directly say this). It’s simply the source material from which some players have inferred that one developer’s opinion of the Necromancer as being a potentially very powerful class is inconsistent with their experiences.

Here

And here

6 months ago we had a world of issues that have since been fixed or minimalized. Death Shroud is an extremely powerful tool for the Necromancer. The problem is the conditionmancer can’t use it 90 percent of the time, and the powermancer has no way to escape a fight once he starts, and since DS gets absolutely wrecked by one big burst that leaves us with a bitter taste in some fights.

Having said that and talking to numerous Necromancers, Rangers, Guardians, and Mesmer’s who wvwvw and tournament at the highest levels. The Necromancer borders on scary op when protected by his teammates.

A high level mesmer said it best. "You kill the necromancer in tournaments, because if you don’t he kills your team. They are really squishy if they are condition specced and they can’t get away so if you can control their teammates they go down, and you can breathe a sigh of relief. "

Oscicat, wvwvw havoc squad mesmer, in the most recent Mesmerized Podcast: "Necromancers are the most frustrating class to fight, because even when you think you kill them they have that green ooze thing that means you have to do it again. They won’t ever blow you up, but they completely control the fight. They protect their teammates, prevent you from focusing on their buddies, and the good ones just keep the fight going longer than you want.

They are tougher than any other class to kill because they know they can’t get away. Every fight is a fight to the death for the team with the Necro so it’s completely different than anything else. 1v1 I will kill a Necro but in a group the good ones will completely control the fight with fears, chills, and if you get two Necros. MY GOD BLINDS EVERYWHERE!

So when you enter the fight with that Necro, you have to prepare yourself to kill or be killed. They won’t quit because they can’t." Check out the Mesmerized Podcast where Oscicat talks for about 15 minutes about fighting a good Necro.

A guardian told me, the only downside to a necro is they have no mobility so you can really only play the Two node which means any team that faces you knows exactly how to play you.

Finally, the top ranger on the EU side, “Necromancers are both hilarious and frustrating. They can completely wipe out any team, but they are easy to spot, dodge, and once you learn their cast animations you can prevent a large portion of their damage. If you mess up though they are crazy.”

^ Exactly^ good post Bass. Quality information from good players without the shameless plug

Offtopics, offtopics everywhere.

Never like’d to play as necro in GW1 ,but in GW2 it is only proffesion i can accept in PvP.
It is mostly supporter and aggro style with pretty good chances to survive. dont realy understand why you don’t like necro.

there is a reason why necro is lowest played profession no mater how you turn it around..

and btw most of the professions are much different in GW2 compared to GW1 it’s not just necro, necro is only one almost broken is some parts ^^

I agree that minions and deathshroud should have been better implemented, even weapon attacks that spawn minions, just like mesmers spawn clones/phantasms.

Other than that, I’m of the rare breed of necros, I love playing life siphoning, although they could improve the scaling and all, still gives pretty good survavility on top of being fun (for myself). Playing a semi glass cannon, aswell as supporting your team with Wells (that could use some CD reduction…) it’s pretty fun, and sometimes challenging, tanking lots of stuff and most of the time lst man standing and over 80% HP – for a clothie.

DS could be WAAAAAAY better but we must agree that intelligent use of it can be a good life saver, that plus the tons of health we have..

Lets see if they start fixing the mess about Boon spamming and such so we can shine even more, because condition cleasing in this game is so hilarious that it makes conditions sometimes not even worth the toruble

OP@ IMO I think the dagger fits the necro theme as a weapon very well, maybe not exactly like a vampire though (It could be thought as a fang of sorts), but daggers or knives were often used as sacrificial weapons in shady rituals of all sorts back when necromancy was experimented, or any kind of ritual where sacrifices were made.

Login.5102:

In high lvl tPvP necros are beyond good. A well played condi necros can completely dominate a team battle and are some of the best at 1v1s.

Not to mention that power and MM builds are not only viable but very good now when played right. Good luck trying to take a point from a soldier MM by yourself.

ALL of our weapons are good and have there places in the above builds giving the necromancer a wide array of options/builds that should make most classes jealous.

In PVE I can’t even comprehend how some one could complain about the necromancer, so I’m not even going to touch on that.

In WvW we can’t get caught in 1v2 situations because of our lack of escape mechanics(by design), but excel in team fights. Run with a premade group and wreck shop.

Its true, I liked the gw1 necromancer more. But in gw2 the necromancer is not even close to being bad, dead or boring!

The opinion of a rank 40+, lvl 80, 30,000 WvW kills beta necro.

Like I said this topic aren’t about necro good or necro sucks. It is about the missing themes of the necro; things that would make the necro cool, fun and unique.

Missing themes:
1) Undead fight for necro – Nope. Summons that uses flesh aren’t undead. Pretty much any class can summon in GW2.
2) Ghosts and spirits fights for necro – None at all.
3) Sacrifice life for power – Not much.
4) Life stealing – Very weak
5) Curses to mess up the enemy – I would take Mesmer’s AoE stun and confusion over necro’s AoE blind any day.
6) Killing foes makes yourself stronger in battle – Probably the only thing that “sort of” remained from GW1. However you have to like how DS works and DS skills for this to apply.

@CHIPS
1) Necromancers in GW don’t summon undead, it is forbidden by Grenth (who only allows us to create minions via dead material).
2) Again, does not fit the lore of GW
3) I’ll agree this one was lost pretty significantly in the transition, sadly
4) You can get very significant life stealing in the right set, and it ignores armor, meaning you can laugh away at guardians.
5) Weakness, poison, blind, fear, cripple, chill are all easily accessible in our builds, compared to Mesmer confusion that requires specific builds to really abuse.
6) You can run full Rampager gear in dungeons because as long as you are killing things you will have so much LF and HP coming in you will never die except to huge spike damage.

1) In GW1 we summon minions directly from dead bodies. That was much closer to undead than the GW2 version. Honestly the GW2 minions are nothing special, since nearly every class can summon.

Energy costs aside, a GW1 minion master in WvW will be keeping up an army of 20 minions non-stop, given how many players dies in rapid succession. It is funny how in a situation where the GW1 minion master would shrine, the GW1 minion master no longer exists.

Minions are supposed to die fast. But in WvW they are supposed to be re-animated rapidly. Using dead bodies should allow a necromancer to re-summon his/her minions more rapidly than summons from other classes. That’s the balance. Minions are NOT supposed to be limited by long cool downs just like summons from other professions.

I know you are big fan of the GW2 minion. And I am not saying they are weak or anything. But what difference is there among an elemental summon, spirit weapons and a necro minion. There aren’t much.

Just look at how many classes and races can summon. 8 classes and 5 races. Hey wait a minute that’s everyone! >_>

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Summon

Necro minions are supposed to shine when there are lots of deaths around. And be underpowered when there are no deaths. That’s the trade off.

2) With the removal of ritualists from the game, the GW2 necro should have inherited some of their abilities. That includes spirit summoning and using spirits in battle. The necro is the closest thing to a ritualist, lore wise. And this image indicates that.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/File:Necromancer_05_concept_art.png

3) Glad we agreed on this.

4) Unless that equipment allows for AoE life steal, it aren’t useful in WvW. Sigil of Blood’s 5 second recharge limits it to single target, even if you use AoE skills. Same thing with Rune of Vampirism and Omnomberry Ghost food. The cooldown doesn’t allow for AoE life stealing.

5) In WvW, one single AoE stun from a mesmer overtakes all of Weakness, poison, blind, fear, cripple, chill combined. Sorry it is true. This next thing that comes close is AoE immobilize, reserved for warriors on arrow carts and engineers (I think).

6) My point is a GW1 necro might hate how DS works and hates DS skills. This is fair, since DS has nothing to do with the GW1 necro. There is no inheritance here.