Guild Wars 2

Once again wall of text warning!
I offer a lot of places for combo finishers on the necromancer weapon
I don’t expect all of them to make it
I tried to keep the discription of the change short if you want a more detailed discription plz ask
Death shroud
Lifeblast
add projectile finisher
Dark path
remove the projectile
make the teleport work like flashing blade except with a cast time
Weapons
Dagger
deathly swarm
add projectile finisher
enfeebling blood
add blast finisher
Axe
Ghastly claws
add whirl finsher
unholy feast
add blast finisher
Scepter
feast of corruption
weakness 5 seconds
damage per condition 8%
life force 3%
focus
reaper’s touch
add projectile finisher
Spinal shivers
cast time 1 second
warhorn
wail of doom
add blast finisher

Utilities
Healing
well of blood
water field or
buff it
Corruption
blood is power
might (10 stacks) 12 seconds
bleeding (4 stacks) 15 seconds
self bleeding (2 stacks) 10 seconds
Signet
signet of the undeath
cast time 2 seconds
Plague signet
breaks stun and remove conditions regardless of failure or not
Well
well of darkness
change to ice field
Spectral
spectral grasp
add projectile finisher
Elite
plague form
stability (3 stacks) 3 seconds
pulse 3 seconds
immobilize duration decrease
chill duration decrease
cripple duration decrease
duration decrease 33%

Dark Pact is fine effect wise as is, it just needs its cast time reduced to 3/4s. If I really wanted to stretch for buffs I’d reduce CD to 20s, but it doesn’t need more effects added to it.

Locust Swarm is fine as is, it gives massive swiftness/cripple uptime, plus a large amount of LF regen and potential procing of on-crit/hit traits.

For Well of Blood, I would just up its healing power scaling to the point that it equals what it was pre-nerf. Or, if they want to make it a Water Field, up it to where it is almost as good as it was pre-nerf, but needs 1 blast finisher to equal out. That way without finishers it is slightly worse than pre-nerf but happens faster, but also scales into teamfighting nicely.

I would also note that while I don’t disagree with a number of these on their own, I don’t think throwing tons of combo finishers on all of our weapon skills is appropriate. Although I tend to agree with the ones you mention, and think those would probably be fine, since they only add to a few distinct skills and in an actual build wouldn’t add too much. Overall a decent set of QoL changes.

Just one more finisher would be wonderful. Life blast had been mentioned recently in another thread.

Lots of great suggestions here but together they are OP.

Dark path cast time reduction is on my wish list. DP should also count as a leap because it takes so long. It would be better as an instant cast, slow projectile that looks like a blob of smoke. A big tell would make it dodgeable in exchange for its long tell and instant movement. Making it a leap finisher could give an aura, too.

I like the idea for the blast finishers.
Dark pact could use a cast time reduction sure, but I don’t think we need more vulnerability, we already have a tonne.

I’d like to see reapers touch and spectral grasp have their projectile velocity increased by 50%

When it comes to the weapon skill adding all those combo finisher i agree would be too much but they should add some of those.

dark pact yea i admit that one was spur of the moment because i was looking at things like
pin down
signet of earth
going to scrap the dark pact change

@anchoku I don’t think i understand what you want to change dark path to.
it sounds like nerf

I would rather have wail of doom being blast finisher than locust swarm. imagine blasting a smoke field just to get revealed 3 secs later

i would rather have dark path as ride the lighting, there is even an animation for that (see risen mobs in cursed shore)

Sublimatio.6981:

I would rather have wail of doom being blast finisher than locust swarm. imagine blasting a smoke field just to get revealed 3 secs later

i would rather have dark path as ride the lighting, there is even an animation for that (see risen mobs in cursed shore)

Agreed on both counts. Also, I want to note this would be great for necro build diversity because all of our utilities that are fields would be indirectly getting a huge buff. On a side note, I think well of darkness should be an ice field (along with getting a lower cooldown). Obviously not because it doesn’t fit thematically, but because blasting a field that applies blind to get more blind is reduntant, and ice fields barely exist in the game.

Agreed, also, lower well of darkness cool down.

Dark Path has a .75 sec warm up before launching a claw that is dodgeable and trips over terrain. I would rather be the claw and at least get closer (and maybe have a chance at gaining an aura) than squatting and waiting in hope the skill finally completes.

Ya I meant to say I would not like dark path to work like ride the lightning.. I would rather have mobility on weapon skills. Dark path is actually really good in most situations. Being the claw would be nice.

I can’t see well of DARKness being an ice field instead of DARK xD maybe one of the wells could be a smoke field

Sublimatio.6981:

I can’t see well of DARKness being an ice field instead of DARK xD maybe one of the wells could be a smoke field

I addressed this in my post dude, read more thoroughly for your own sake. It’s just dumb that blasting a skill gives the same effect as the skill itself.

zapv.8051:

Sublimatio.6981:

I can’t see well of DARKness being an ice field instead of DARK xD maybe one of the wells could be a smoke field

I addressed this in my post dude, read more thoroughly for your own sake. It’s just dumb that blasting a skill gives the same effect as the skill itself.

• choughcorrosivepoisoncloudcough *

Or, you know, every Water field in the game, where blasting it gives more healing.

Agree with most of these.

However i think dark pact should be left as it is. Its fine. A cooldown reduction would be nice but it doesnt really need it.

Also for warhorn. I dont want locust as a blast. I would much rather have wail of doom as a blast. It makes more sense, works better (blasting stealth or swiftness) and looks more like a blast.

Also another suggestion i would personally love. Is in addition to enfeebling blood being a blast. Weakening shroud should also be a blast. Its been discussed. Some people think thats too strong. I personally dont think its even close to being OP when you consider what other classes can do.

zapv.8051:

Sublimatio.6981:

I can’t see well of DARKness being an ice field instead of DARK xD maybe one of the wells could be a smoke field

I addressed this in my post dude, read more thoroughly for your own sake. It’s just dumb that blasting a skill gives the same effect as the skill itself.

Maybe your aggressive response would make any sense if I didn’t suggest a smoke field.
As Drarnom explained, many fields just repeat their original effect to improve it, and as soon as HoT is released, blasting dark fields will be the only way of removing defiance bar via blast finishers. (and actually it’s 3s blind, so it will remove more than thief’s powder tick (2s), and smoke screen tick (1s)

CPC isn’t great so it’s not exactly the skill that you want to model others after as far as I’m concerned. Also more healing is very rarely bad, more blind is just wasteful if they already have blind. That’s a really good point about pve though sublimatio, but they don’t balance around pve very often so its probably moot. I just think it would be cool to see more ice fields considering how rare they are, they could throw it on any of our dark fields and I’d be happy.

Is there even a field priority list? Isn’t just RNG like always? While necro needs skill/traits changes not some I sometimes laugh at our blast finishers especially that one. Also the reflectable projectiles not counting as projectile finishers, hello revenant with 100% chance projectile finisher and non traited life steal.

Sagat.3285:

I sometimes laugh at our blast finishers especially that one.

I didn’t know that and I just laughed so hard, it’s mocking our class beyond imagination XD (and I’m laughing because I’m out of tears)

Field priority is first down. Although some light fields are bugged and will overwrite other fields.

spoj.9672:

Field priority is first down. Although some light fields are bugged and will overwrite other fields.

First down instead of yours first?! This isn’t going to work in open content too much zerg mentality and lack of defined coordination, instanced sure maybe but DS holding us back… For blind field a thief can provide better+higher dps+skipping+active recovery (SoM+IP), obviously blind field apply first+finisher projectile blasts will be saved for fire fields. I don’t hate my necro but I don’t he’s being taken care of properly… isn’t there a better death mechanic than DS?/rhetorical question. That I hate.

Yeah field priority is always first down and it disregards who placed it. So its not pug friendly at all.

Also the devs suggested a system in the past where you could choose your own personal field priority in the options. But they also decided against it because they said the playerbase was too stupid to use it. Which is really disappointing.

spoj.9672:

Yeah field priority is always first down and it disregards who placed it. So its not pug friendly at all.

Also the devs suggested a system in the past where you could choose your own personal field priority in the options. But they also decided against it because they said the playerbase was too stupid to use it. Which is really disappointing.

Casualty at it’s finest, I’m about to do a 180 on this expansion.

Let’s be honest, I’ve played with the community enough to agree with the devs, your average player is dumb.

Also Water Fields are different, more healing from a healing skill is exactly what you want. More blind duration on top of a blind though does absolutely nothing, making blasting WoD literally worthless unless you are against someone clearing their blinds faster than WoD applies them. CPC and other poison fields have similar issues in that they very quickly apply too much poison in a single application, and all that extra duration just gets wasted. Death Nova is particularly bad for this, it is pretty common for me to respawn and still see someone ticking from a poison I applied when we were fighting.

but blasting a poison field creates weakness :d

Tadsoul.6951:

Dagger
enfeebling blood
add blast finisher
focus
reaper’s touch
add projectile finisher
Spinal shivers
cast time 1 second

I agree that enfeebling blood need to be a blast finisher and/or spinal shivers need to be a blast finisher as well and i think its better for spinal shivers to be a blast finisher since its practically almost useless in pve. If there will be a change in spinal shivers, i think we can achieve this by reworking chill of death trait, so it will make spinal shivers as ground targeting aoe, in the same way that focused rituals enabling wells skill as ground targeting aoe, while it radius is 120. For the animation we can use elementalist frozen burst animation or we can use necrotic traversal animation and make spinal shivers as a blast finisher and a blink skill too. It basically a summon flesh wurm skill without the wurm and place it on weapon skill instead of on utillity belt, or at least make summon flesh wurm have lower cooldown and lower cast time, 30 second cooldown and one or half second cast time would do it. If the issue is balance we can decrease the wurm damage to 100 or none at all, leaving only poison as its damage. What im saying is if we cant have a weapon skill base blast finisher, at least make a summon flesh wurm as a true blink skill for necro.

If above is too much work for the devs team, we can make summon bone minions to use ground targeting so necro can control where they should blow their self up and make it act like a true necro bomb, also devs can reduce the casting time into one or half second.

Although it’s highly unlikely, i hope devs change the skill or at the very least necro would have a weapon-base blast finisher and/or a weapon-base mobility skill on the up coming class specialization.

try blasting blinding powder with bone minions xD that is, if they moved a bit and thief doesn’t know how to position the field to get 2 blasts

spoj.9672:

However i think dark pact should be left as it is. Its fine. A cooldown reduction would be nice but it doesnt really need it.

maybe it’s fine, but, compared to other skills, it really doesnt do a whole lot. 3 seconds immobilise, 600 range and really long cooldown.

While magnetic grasp for example has higher range, shorter cooldown, shorter cast time, is also a gap closer, a projectile finisher and a leap finisher. Oh, and it’s also unblockable

Im not asking for dark pact to become as overstuffed as magnetic grasp, but a higher range and an additional effect would be nice.

I still dont think Enfeebling blood should be a blast finisher. it just doesnt look like one. And i dont like trying to fix things by just slapping blast finishers on everything (like they did with elementalist).

RashanDale.3609:

And i dont like trying to fix things by just slapping blast finishers on everything (like they did with elementalist).

But this is exactly the kind of fix we need to improve the base class. Even if the specialisation is good we lack proper group synergy due to finisher shortages. Seeing as we are only getting one new weapon. We will still be a class with major finisher shortages on weapons. Adding blast finishers is such a good way to improve a class immensely without completely breaking its balance. It gives huge group play improvements and only minor solo play improvements (especially in the case of necro with its limited field types). Combo fields and finishers are a core part of the system. To have one class have a severe lack of them doesnt really make sense.

The annoying thing with the blast finisher= Blind thing is that it is literally only a problem with one skill, and that is Well of Darkness (as it’s the only Dark field that blinds). At the same time, changing it to a different sort of combo field makes zero thematic sense. It would be like if Purging Flames were a Light field instead of a Fire field.

As far as skill changes and finishers, I’m really surprised nobody suggested making Necrotic Grasp a 100% finisher yet.

Since this is a suggestion of skill changing, i want to add on bleed is powerless, oh right, blood is power skill. If we cant get any blast finisher, devs at least should consider to make blood is power share-able trough out the group. I know if it share-able it would be a bit OP since its give 10 stack of might, but what if we nerf the skill a lil bit so it can be viable, let say it only give 4-6 stack of 15-20 second might instead of 10 stack of 12 second might, it also doesnt do any damage whatsoever to the foe, while we are at it we can increase the duration of the self-bleeding to 15 second too.

I dont think a lot of necros will agree with this, but i think this is the easiest way for necro to increase its viability on group play if we cant have a blast finisher base on weapon skill, although i still prefer a weapon skill base blast finisher.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

As far as skill changes and finishers, I’m really surprised nobody suggested making Necrotic Grasp a 100% finisher yet.

thats definitely been suggested numerous times already. i just didnt feel like repeating it again.

let say it only give 4-6 stack of 15-20 second might instead of 10 stack of 12 second might, it also doesnt do any damage whatsoever to the foe, while we are at it we can increase the duration of the bleed to 15 second too.

Considering how elementalists and others are allowed to get ridiculous might stacks with very little effort, i think it could easily be 5 stacks for allies, 10 stacks for yourself and an increased self bleed.

I have updated the orignal post to reflect the changes people have brought up.
Removed dark pact
Well of darkness ice field
wail of doom blast finisher instead of locust swarm

dark path acting similar to ride the lightning could also work however that is adding even more mobility to it than making it similar to flashing blade.
I feel dark path would be better to improve than to add mobility to weapon skills because outside of death shroud we already can do things if people try to sit at 1500 to counter it. However inside death shroud we can’t do anything to counter that weakness.

RashanDale.3609:

let say it only give 4-6 stack of 15-20 second might instead of 10 stack of 12 second might, it also doesnt do any damage whatsoever to the foe, while we are at it we can increase the duration of the bleed to 15 second too.

Considering how elementalists and others are allowed to get ridiculous might stacks with very little effort, i think it could easily be 5 stacks for allies, 10 stacks for yourself and an increased self bleed.

Either way is fine for me, since my suggestion goal is to make blood is power share-able trough out the group, so it can increase the viability of necros in group content. i dont even mind if blood is power also consume life force in exchange of it can be share, though as long as its not consume too much life force and if its not to much of a work for the devs i may suggest to make it as F2 skill instead of utility skill if blood is power consume life force when necro use it and remove it from coruption skill tag.

Well of Blood is a light field, so let’s not pretend like theme should mean a single thing for Well of Darkness.

Tadsoul.6951:

Utilities
Corruption
blood is power
might (10 stacks) 12 seconds
bleeding (4 stacks) 15 seconds
self bleeding (2 stacks) 10 seconds

I think you forget to add blood is power as share-able skill, otherwise the “nerf” would be pointless.

There is no nerf to Blood is Power in that. It gets the same bleed damage but in a smaller period of time, and is otherwise exactly the same.

Bhawb.7408:

There is no nerf to Blood is Power in that. It gets the same bleed damage but in a smaller period of time, and is otherwise exactly the same.

oh lol yeah it is, the skill should be like this.
Blood is Power:
Share-able through out the party
4-6 stack Might (20 second)
2-3 stack self bleed (15 second)
radius 300-600
damage to foe = 0
bleed to foe = 0

That verison of Blood is power is similar to For great Justice
In fact you could probably go with
blood is power 30 second cooldown
5 stack might 30 second duration
2 stacks of self bleed 10 second duration
radius 600

However I feel like It would just be bad design to make blood is power that similar to for great justice this is why i didnt include it

currently the verison blood is power is good at stacking bleeds
however if both pve and pvp that is irrelevent because the bleed stacks are way to long in duration
now i know condition damage isn’t very useful in pve however anet has expressed to at least improve it. If they want to make the bleed stacks of blood is power useful in pve or pvp need to make the bleed damage happen quicker

BiP being nerfed to provide group might isnt what i call a good idea. Its one merit is that it gives a good amount of selfish might to the necro. If the 10 stacks was group shared that would be fine. But if you nerf the amount of stacks or the duration then it becomes inferior to a single blast in a fire field. Which means it would have been better off as a decent skill for solo/self sufficient necros (like it currently is).

Even at 10 stacks of Might group-wide, it compares unfavorably with Empower (Guardian staff 3), which provides 12 stacks of Might on a shorter cooldown.

Tadsoul.6951:

That verison of Blood is power is similar to For great Justice
In fact you could probably go with
blood is power 30 second cooldown
5 stack might 30 second duration
2 stacks of self bleed 10 second duration
radius 600

However I feel like It would just be bad design to make blood is power that similar to for great justice this is why i didnt include it

currently the verison blood is power is good at stacking bleeds
however if both pve and pvp that is irrelevent because the bleed stacks are way to long in duration
now i know condition damage isn’t very useful in pve however anet has expressed to at least improve it. If they want to make the bleed stacks of blood is power useful in pve or pvp need to make the bleed damage happen quicker

Why is it matter if it similar to great justice or not? For me it doesnt matter if its similar to great justice, what matters for me is necro have more viability in group content since we can share might stack with it. Let say it still have 2 stack of bleed in longer duration or reduce the damage of bleed to the foe, so it would be like
blood is power:
30 second cooldown
6 stack might (20 second duration)
2 stacks of self bleed (15 second duration)
2 stacks of bleed (500-1k damage) (15 second duration)
radius 600

spoj.9672:

BiP being nerfed to provide group might isnt what i call a good idea. Its one merit is that it gives a good amount of selfish might to the necro. If the 10 stacks was group shared that would be fine. But if you nerf the amount of stacks or the duration then it becomes inferior to a single blast in a fire field. Which means it would have been better off as a decent skill for solo/self sufficient necros (like it currently is).

That is the point, because we lack of blast finisher and its been how many years since we ask for a blast finisher but it never come through maybe it because its too much work for the devs team to give us one, so instead i suggested to make blood is power share-able. Lets be honest here would devs team give us a 10 stack of might that we can share through out the party? If one blast finisher is like impossible to get, that is why i said to nerf it down, so maybe.. just maybe that devs team would consider it.

Let say it give us 6 stack of might with 20 second duration, its like 2 blast finisher right there, so if 1 blast finsiher is so hard for us to get, i think “nerfing” blood is power doesnt seems so bad for me and i never say its good idea, this is some kind of last effort for us, necros, if we cant get a blast finisher. For me personally i rather have 6 stack of might that i can share with the group so my necro become more viable in group content, rather than having 10 stack of might that i have by my self. Isnt necro is notoriously a selfish class? So if blood is power is share-able, i think at the very least we can put the selfish class aside from our class description.

With all that i said above i still prefer a weapon skill that have a blast finisher rather then share-able blood is power, although it seems its highly impossible to get.

No empower is godly awful. The duration of the those might stacks is so short it completely destroys its own viability. Always fun when pugs use empower right after you stack 25 might. And then lose it because of overwritten might.

@Zanz
The problem with that is 6 stacks on 20 duration is really mediocre. And if thats what we get for a less selfish version of the skill i would rather keep BiP as it is for solo purposes. For group might it would have to be atleast 30 seconds (or perma uptime) for me to consider it worth the change. Simply because blasts give 3 stacks on 30 second duration.

Besides i think getting a few blasts is more likely than a BiP rework. And if we get blasts then our group contribution is far better. We can blast might, stealth and swiftness. And we can still keep our really good solo might skill.

spoj.9672:

@Zanz
The problem with that is 6 stacks on 20 duration is really mediocre. And if thats what we get for a less selfish version of the skill i would rather keep BiP as it is for solo purposes. For group might it would have to be atleast 30 seconds (or perma uptime) for me to consider it worth the change. Simply because blasts give 3 stacks on 30 second duration.

Besides i think getting a few blasts is more likely than a BiP rework. And if we get blasts then our group contribution is far better. We can blast might, stealth and swiftness. And we can still keep our really good solo might skill.

Hmmm.. I think its highly unlikely the devs would give us 30 second duration, but the BiP would look something like this,

Blood is Power:
6 stack might (20/25/30 second duration)
2 stack self bleed (15 second duration) (1-1,5k damage)
2 stack of bleed (15-20 second duration) (500-1k damage)
radius 600
cooldown 30 second.

IMO 30 second duration is a lil bit OP since its become perma, so i think 25 second would be a good enough for the duration. But that’s me, maybe we can agree to disagree on the duration.

I agree a blast finisher would be much better for necro and it should be a weapon base and/or at least a ground target kind of skill so we can control the blast. The point of my suggestion on the rework of the BiP is because it seems its so hard for us to get a blast finisher. If we get the BiP rework then it will increase necro viability in group content if we dont get any blast finisher. For now, i wont get my hope too high for the upcoming HoT and specialization, while still hoping the devs dont mess it up.

Well i know for sure that making BiP group might will not make necros any more popular in groups. Its such an insignificant change.

And yeah i was kind of stuck in the mindset of BiP being 12 second duration. Considering BiP is 30 second cooldown. A 20-25 second might duration would be fine. And actually if it is 6 stacks for 20 seconds it is equal to 10 stacks for 12 seconds. But has greater viability as a sustained might stacker and benefits more from boon duration. Although it would be less powerful for bursting.

So i guess if it isnt nerfed then im fine with it. Anything lower than 6 stacks would be a nerf. And thats assuming the might duration is increased.

How about adding a secondary effect to corruption that consume LF with a minimal cast time 1/2sec plus a rework?

BiP : Share your blood with allies transferring them might x cost(+rework of bleed obviously…)
CPC : Your cloud thickens destroying projectiles x cost
Epidemic : Your body becomes epidemic and transfers condition in AoE 4 secs x cost
CB : Inflict a greater curse on your foe preventing his boons to be effective 6 secs (reverse of resistance which is needed with boon spam meta) x cost

I mean it’s not like we haven’t ask for stuff like that before they announced HoT. Don’t leave us in the dust robbed… I would like to request a trait that create a reverse version of resistance on foes affected by corruptions.

spoj.9672:

Well i know for sure that making BiP group might will not make necros any more popular in groups. Its such an insignificant change.

And yeah i was kind of stuck in the mindset of BiP being 12 second duration. Considering BiP is 30 second cooldown. A 20-25 second might duration would be fine. And actually if it is 6 stacks for 20 seconds it is equal to 10 stacks for 12 seconds. But has greater viability as a sustained might stacker and benefits more from boon duration. Although it would be less powerful for bursting.

So i guess if it isnt nerfed then im fine with it. Anything lower than 6 stacks would be a nerf. And thats assuming the might duration is increased.

Well, one can only hope if such a change occur at the very least necros will become more viable in group content. Its not an actual nerf by the way, its rather a buffing the skill, that is why in earlier post i said “nerf” not just plain text nerf since its actually not a nerf.

Does anyone use BiP with might duration runes just before Lich in PvE face roll? This seems to be my most common usage.