Guild Wars 2

I just got done getting my butt kicked by a Mesmer in a bunch of 1v1’s.
This Mesmer was specced for maximum damage I think.

When I wasn’t a Moa bird, I was being wailed on by the greatsword clone (illusion?) and dual pistol clone (illusion?) and the actual Mesmer who was I think using a greatsword (or some type of high dmg melee weapon). I got a few of my skills off, but for the most part he was invisible or spawning more clones the entire fight.
My deathshroud was useful in cleaning up the clones, but as fast as they were destroyed they were back up again.

I am specced for condition damage, I tried everything I could think of, but just kept getting royally stomped.

My question here is; how do I combat a Mesmer specced that way?

Thanks in advance.

Spec for AoE damage to burn down the clones. Doesn’t have to be OMGWTFBBQ, but enough to take down their illusions quickly enough so they can’t keep with the clone production, while damaging them in the process.

Another tip would be to watch for the weapon swap, as they usually immediately spawn a high damage phantasm.

Aristio.2784:

Spec for AoE damage to burn down the clones. Doesn’t have to be OMGWTFBBQ, but enough to take down their illusions quickly enough so they can’t keep with the clone production, while damaging them in the process.

Another tip would be to watch for the weapon swap, as they usually immediately spawn a high damage phantasm.

I have a lot of aoes as is, but the clones are usually spread far enough apart that my aoes do not hit them all at once. It seems kind of hard to keep up with clone production.

Henge of Den: Did the Mesmer say “GET kitten ON” through out the 1 on 1s? =P

Try as hard you, because you are going up against the best 1 on 1 class in the game.

Also, try to find the real him so you can FOCUS TARGET him so you know which is the real one.

Ukaei.8694:

Henge of Den: Did the Mesmer say “GET kitten ON” through out the 1 on 1s? =P

Try as hard you, because you are going up against the best 1 on 1 class in the game.

Also, try to find the real him so you can FOCUS TARGET him so you know which is the real one.

No lol
It was during spvp

To be honest they seem like they’re in a good spot right now. I’d hesitate to say OP… but they kinda seem like they could be.

he probably was an extremly bad mesmer
against a good one, you’d have died during the MOA

So they’re OP right now?

Konrad Curze.5130:

he probably was an extremly bad mesmer
against a good one, you’d have died during the MOA

Pretty much this lol.

AnAltruisticEgoist.5476:

So they’re OP right now?

Why does a class have to be OP just because they beat you I’m a 1v1?? You might not be very good in 1v1 situations, they might have been awesome at playing mesmer (but as said earlier, against a good one you would be dead during the moa).

Some professions are just better at 1v1 situations, it does not automatically make them OP. Thieves for example are probably the best 1v1 profession closely followed by mesmer, a well played thief will rip you to shreds and you would barely scratch them, but they are not OP either.

So, Loco, what is your definition of OP then? I mean, if there’s 2 classes you can’t win against no matter what isn’t OP (and most other classes can’t win against also if those two are played good) so what is?

Loco:
I’m not bad at 1v1’s.
He wasn’t all that good.
With minimal effort he managed to faceroll me.
Based on what others have said, yourself included, I’d say mesmers need a little balancing. All classes should have equal footing in a 1v1.

It’s natural for each class to have their own nemesis, a match up that is just very unfavorable due to the way they classes function.

In most games, Mage > Warrior, Warrior > Thieves, and Thieves > Mage. Not saying it’s set in stone, but it’s the general trend.

However, when ALL the classes in GW2 have a headache or have little they can do against Mesmers, then yea I think that is what you would call OP.

Are they amazing duelists? Yes, perhaps the strongest 1v1 class right now but that in itself is can be a characteristic that defines the class and doesn’t necessary make the class OP. However Mesmers go beyond that.

People will try and tell you that they suck in team engagements or in a group fight setting. I play a Mesmer now too and I tell you those guys are lying. Time Warp is easily one of the best group elites you can have. Much like Tome of Courage before the nerf turned every fight around with the heal, Time Warp pumps your team full off steroids for 10s.

Mesmers and Necromancers are the classes to go to when it comes to boon stripping, however Mesmers outshine Necromancers in that regard too with Null Field, the only AoE boon strip in the game that doubles as a cleanse too, hey it’s only 5s longer in CD than corrupt boon, isn’t buggy and gives you a combo field.

Necromancers have access to a lot of Dark Fields which have decent effects, however they also lack in general a lot of finishers by themselves. Mesmers have access to ethereal fields which leap/blast finishers have quite the effect (Chaos Armor). And the kicker is, they have a reliable way to self-combo this within the same weapon (Staff). This means that not only do Mesmer have the means of supplying combos, they also can take advantage of others relatively easy compared to the Necromancer. Combos are huge in team fight scenarios and Necros lose out a lot in this regard.

Mesmers are great duelists meaning they can handle themselves quite well, but their usefulness does not drop off in a bigger engagement as well. As a result, they completely outclass a lot of professions right now and that would be what you consider OP.

OT: Condition damage against Mesmer’s is an uphill battle, even with Epidemic, it doesn’t always kill their illusions fast enough. Don’t engage one 1v1 and bring a friend with you, it really is the only reliable way. Also, don’t stomp his illusions when you get him to downed. The real one is the second one that pops out after the stealth and has an arrow over its head.

Mesmer is easymode. Try it. Also if you play mesmer you will realise that most other mesmers are pretty bad and can have fun killing them on an even footing. I also feel like I support my team a lot better as mesmer than necro regardless of spec.

For the people who are saying oh what does it matter if one class is better in 1v1. Sure as long as it’s balanced out so e.g. their support is inferior or they are squishier in a group situation. But this is not the case.

I don’t have much trouble with mesmers. Actually – last night I might have got my most satisfying kill off of one.

We had taken a keep, during the mesmer sweep we flushed one over the wall. I noticed a little swirly circle on the ground on the corner of the wall. I dropped all of my marks and 2 wells on it…. BOOM! haha

As a mesmer (leveling a necro), AOE will be your friend.

We have many utilities to reflect damage, sneak away, and to regen health.

AOE is the secret to taking down a mesmer.

Oh, and FYI, you can evade from being moa’d if you evade at the right time.

Most mesmers will moa when they first run at you to try to beat you down. I would suggest using your evading skills when you first enter battle as much as possible.

Also, if you are fighting and you see a large purple circle around the mesmer. Run, just run.

as iCryptik says, Mesmer really gets trashed badly by AOE. Other than that, it’s a matter of practice fighting against them. It gets pretty easy to see which are the clones and you need to learn that phantasms you need to kill (again, AOE is your friend) and clones can be ignored.

Moa is a pretty good dueling Elite, but is complete trash otherwise. Learn the animation and evade, LOS, etc.

So yea, pretty much repeating with iCryptik said. Mesmers are tricky, that’s their thing, but just as there’s skill required to play one effectively, you can develop personal skills to play against one effectively.

> All classes should have equal footing in a 1v1.

Please, no. The only way to ensure this is to take away all special abilities. It is this mindset that dulls and commoditizes games into utter boredom. Some classes have an advantage over others; play to your strengths and avoid your weaknesses.

Ascii

Got a link to that build?

It looks similar to mine, except that you are direct damage.

Couple tips for the OP, from a PvE mesmer:

If he was meleeing you, he was using a 1h sword, which is our only melee weapon. The greatsword is a ranged weapon for mesmers (yeah, I know), that shoots pinkish purple lightning at you (yeah, I know).

Also, mesmers have two different kinds of illusions: clones and phantasms. Clones look exactly like the mesmer, but they only have basic attacks and can’t really do much other than distract you or explode in your face. Phantasms look like a blue glowing version of the mesmer and are the really dangerous ones to watch out for. When you’re fighting a mesmer, if they are dropping clones all over the place (the ones that look exactly like the mesmer) then they’re probably specced for shattering (i.e. popping their clones on you for high damage, confusion, or dazing).

However, if they’re dropping phantasms (the very obvious blue glowing ones) they don’t want to pop them and they’re specced for a completely different playstyle. All mesmers use both clones and phantasms, but every mesmer will favor one over the other. If you’re dealing with a clone mesmer, your best bet is to pop his clones quickly and once you find the real him, lock your target (control+T) so that he can’t sneak away. When you get turned into a Moa, you have two choices. If the mesmer is still very healthy, run away. In Moa form you should be able to run pretty quick, and mesmers don’t have many options for movement speed increases so you should be able to line-of-sight him until Moa wears off. Otherwise, if the mesmer is nearly dead, you can use the Moa attacks to finish him. Moa has a couple of decent attacks and even a heal if I remember correctly, so don’t be afraid to use your skills while in that form if you can safely do so. It has a long 10-second duration but an even longer 3 minute cooldown, so if you can survive through the Moa the mesmer is mostly boned when it comes to being able to control you.

I hope that helps!

“All classes should have equal footing in a 1v1.”

Ok, equal footing in 1v1. Check.
Then, logically, Everyone must have equal footing in 5v5 as well, right?
As a result, Everyone must be equally disadvantaged in 1v2 and in no way stand a chance of winning.
19v20, must follow the same guidelines and the side with more people must win.
Balance is balance and fair is fair.
Guild Wars is then a game of logistics.
(que smart kitten response suggesting the more skilled player wins)

The same line of thought taken on a different path,
If the game is balanced around 1v1, 5v5, 8v8 and 20v20 then all abilities must be balanced against each other.
Rogues have heartseeker, therefore everyone needs an ability that performs the same as heartseeker (functionally and quantitatively).
Necromancers have DS, so every class must be given a mechanic that performs the same as DS…for balance sake.
…
All Classes must have the same Abilities, Stats, Gear and Appearance to ensure that there is balance and no one class is in any way disadvantaged against another class.

There are genres of game designed with this mindset…but they typically are not MMO.

The game is more enjoyable when it isn’t balanced around 1v1 and there is variety in the classes and their capabilities to some extent. This of course does lead to some classes with advantages or disadvantages against other classes in 1v1. But this isn’t 1v1 dueling game. Sure, 1v1 does happen. But pvp situations are never necessarily a 1v1 game. Someone can always come along for one side or the other.

What is most important is that ever class can have a role and be effective at it. If it turns out that a class doesn’t have that role or is just not capable of being effective at it(or a role that isn’t needed) then that is when sweeping adjustments and nerfbats are to be had.

This is where the concern with Necro’s and balance should be focused…not in “I lost against these mesmers this one time. I could tell they all sucked at their class and I am usually very good at beating people in 1v1. But Mesmers are the only class I regularly have trouble with, they are overpowered and must be nerfed.”

AnAltruisticEgoist.5476:

he was invisible or spawning more clones the entire fight.

This is the kitten derp part of Mesmers and needs to be fixed.

Invisibility should have some major restrictions or be on a much longer CD.

I’m pretty cool with the rest of their mechanics.

BAMBOO.9430:

“All classes should have equal footing in a 1v1.”

Ok, equal footing in 1v1. Check.
Then, logically, Everyone must have equal footing in 5v5 as well, right?
As a result, Everyone must be equally disadvantaged in 1v2 and in no way stand a chance of winning.
19v20, must follow the same guidelines and the side with more people must win.
Balance is balance and fair is fair.
Guild Wars is then a game of logistics.
(que smart kitten response suggesting the more skilled player wins)

The same line of thought taken on a different path,
If the game is balanced around 1v1, 5v5, 8v8 and 20v20 then all abilities must be balanced against each other.
Rogues have heartseeker, therefore everyone needs an ability that performs the same as heartseeker (functionally and quantitatively).
Necromancers have DS, so every class must be given a mechanic that performs the same as DS…for balance sake.
…
All Classes must have the same Abilities, Stats, Gear and Appearance to ensure that there is balance and no one class is in any way disadvantaged against another class.

There are genres of game designed with this mindset…but they typically are not MMO.

The game is more enjoyable when it isn’t balanced around 1v1 and there is variety in the classes and their capabilities to some extent. This of course does lead to some classes with advantages or disadvantages against other classes in 1v1. But this isn’t 1v1 dueling game. Sure, 1v1 does happen. But pvp situations are never necessarily a 1v1 game. Someone can always come along for one side or the other.

What is most important is that ever class can have a role and be effective at it. If it turns out that a class doesn’t have that role or is just not capable of being effective at it(or a role that isn’t needed) then that is when sweeping adjustments and nerfbats are to be had.

This is where the concern with Necro’s and balance should be focused…not in “I lost against these mesmers this one time. I could tell they all sucked at their class and I am usually very good at beating people in 1v1. But Mesmers are the only class I regularly have trouble with, they are overpowered and must be nerfed.”

I’m going to ignore the point you are trying to make until you stop using fallacious hyperbole as a rhetorical device.

AnAltruisticEgoist.5476:

I’m going to ignore the point you are trying to make until you stop using fallacious hyperbole as a rhetorical device.

Ignoring the other guy’s point…always the best way to hold a discussion. Although, I know you read the earlier post, saying I’m not going to acknowledge an argument is a sure fire way to prove that you are just trolling and not really interested in getting things that our class needs. Even if the argument is written in a style that you don’t like. (Not at all fallacious, BTW. Google the definition, then reread what you “didn’t” read the first time.)

The obvious TLDR version of my earlier post:

1. Classes in this game can’t be balanced for 1v1 or we loose the uniqueness that our class provides.

2. Performing well in 1v1 against 7 of the 8 other classes does not lead to the logical conclusion that the 8th class is overpowered or that changes should be made to any of the classes.

3. There are for more things to consider in mmo class balance than 1v1 performance between specific match-ups.

4. If Necro’s want changes, we need to show them roles where we are deficient…parts of the game design we are excluded from for a verifiable reason.

To give example considerations; Are we never used/useful for dungeons? Do we not have utility/playability in WvW? Are we never chosen/useful in tPvP? Is the role of condition removal not necessary?

1v1 dueling against mesmers, while a fairly common happening in spvp or pug tpvp(for those who go rambo), is hardly in the game design. Even then, in my experience even in spvp, true 1v1’s are very rare. There are always other factors (other players, bundles, sharks, boons). There is also the whole trait and stat build variety to consider. Maybe your build/style just didn’t work against his build/style while another build/style would have.

When I lose, this is what I consider:
I lost against the Mesmer who is Phantasm/Condition damage built. Am I the best build I need to be to fight him? Should I change my build to fight Mesmers with Phantasm/Condition builds so that I have the advantage? If i change my build, what do I lose? Would I rather beat mesmers more frequently in 1v1 at the cost of what i lost from my old build?

It’s staggering that many forum goers and trolls don’t consider this and insist that the other guy’s class is OP as a whole.

I usually roll with some form of group in PvP. After the first BWE, I realized that solo pvp is a doomed venture in this game. You are at a higher risk of not getting a fair fight due to one reason or another and will only ever get the same reward. Risk/Reward is not really there for solo. Therefore, I’ve rarely build with the concept of fighting 1v1’s…but I certainly know that my build would be different if it was. And, that build would be even more different if i were to specialize in dueling mesmers…just as their build would be different if they were to specialize in dueling Necro’s.

It’s a Meta Game. The Dev’s are waiting for this to stabilize, before they consider large changes like, for examples, giving necro’s a 50% damage increase while wielding an axe or decide that Mesmers can only have 1 phantasm at a time. I recall one of them coming to this very forum and saying something to that effect directly in response to necro changes.

I know the definition of fallacious.
I would sit here and give you an in depth explanation on why your post was riddled with illogic if I didn’t think it would earn me a infraction.
But, I’m not going to derail my own thread.

I’m not interested in a debate at this particular time.
I merely wanted some information on how to counter a Mesmer.

Thank you to those who provided it.

mesmer has access to multiple invul as well (sword and f4 shatter), multiple invis, good condition and boon control and either high survivability or high damage.

They’re great at 1v1 and even better (imo) in groups.

So to me, this does sound a little too strong.

I can say for a fact I have a much easier time playing my mes (and I really am quite new and pretty terrible on her) than my 80 necro (which I have many, many more games played with varying levels of success)

I’ve Killed quite a few Mesmers, Though I will say they’re probably the one I have the most difficulty taking down in general. I even hate it when they actually go down, they’re still pretty annoying XD