Guild Wars 2

DoctorWhy.3847:

Karther: “And just because we’re not the best at something does not make us not as useful.” Actually, that is exactly what it means. If you could get a better class when going through a dungeon, then you will avoid adding any lone necros. This has happened to me before, which is what made me realize this mess in the first place. 2 groups in a row told me they didn’t want a necro. Eventually found a group, but even so, it is really annoying to be discriminated on (using that term for this situation makes me laugh XD).

Sounds like you ran into some guys that have only played bad games and can only think that your profession matters more than the player.

Kaikas.4631:

Pros:
- Incredibly tanky if build right
- Mass retaliation with axe
- Mass cripple with axe
- Fear enemys from the rams
- Strong AoE with Staff
- Strong AoE with Wells (even tagetable if specced)
- Spread conditions to the enemy zerg
- Pull enemys from walls
- 2 Speed buffs, which let you travel really fast
- Lich form to kill the occasional roamer
- AoE Blindness for the enemy zerg
- …

In my eyes the Necro is one of the strongest WvW classes around. It’s only sPvP where it really feels meh, but that is off topic.

So that I understand this correctly… you’re advocating the Axe in PvP? And you cite a 1 second fear as meaningful (particularly since our very presence in PvP gives enemy Thieves a free 4 second fear on a 40sec CD)?

…

……

………

…right.

Moving on…

@OP… Necro can perform in WvW. A mark/well build can lock down choke points and towers rather easily. An Epidemic conditionmancer will provide the same results. Minions are useless and you’re hurting yourself if you’re using them in PvP of any sort, to include WvW (particularly with all the AoE flying around).

Aaaaaand… that’s it.

Don’t expect to go direct damage as a Necro in PvP and be taken seriously. Otherwise you’re in good shape.

I specifically rolled a necro and will hit 80 tonight for the explicit purpose of condition builds in WvW. I have leveled almost exclusively in WvW past level 30 and have loved every minute of it. I use sceptor and dagger/warhorn and then staff.

I use staff for area denial. Think wall aoes. Spec into larger marks and those puppies COVER the walls. If they get ballsy and decide to eat the marks you use epidemic and make everyone in the area pay for their mistake. This also works well for denying area infront of your gates or walls on defense.

Sceptor is my main single target source of damage, though with epidemic you’re always a huge aoe threat. Sceptor 2 is a nice snare with a good duration. Locus swarm if you have warhorn in OH is very nice compliment to this too.

Spectral walk is both a stun breaker and a nice mobility ability and can be used for some creative escapes.

I don’t remember the signets name, but the one that collects allies conditions on to yourself and then activates to dump them on the target can be nice, but you should exercise caution and have a full build around it.

The utility that turn boons into conditions is a favorite of mine. I love watching guardians that get to 50% and pop “Save Yourselves!” for all the buffs. It never fails. Once they do, I convert all those to conditions, unload my own conditions, and then epidemic. It is a beautiful thing.

@Enerjak Yes, Axe is by far our worst weapon. Its range is barely any better then dagger with less than 50% of the DPS. Its #2 can be useful for lifeforce builds and #3 can be useful in niche situations / builds but its effects are hardly unique to necros. It also doesn’t change the fact that #1 hits like a kitten and its vulnerability is worthless compared to focus. Its a shame, because it might work outside a tiny niche of builds otherwise.

Enerjak.2475:

So that I understand this correctly… you’re advocating the Axe in PvP? And you cite a 1 second fear as meaningful (particularly since our very presence in PvP gives enemy Thieves a free 4 second fear on a 40sec CD)?

…

……

………

…right.

Moving on…

@OP… Necro can perform in WvW. A mark/well build can lock down choke points and towers rather easily. An Epidemic conditionmancer will provide the same results. Minions are useless and you’re hurting yourself if you’re using them in PvP of any sort, to include WvW (particularly with all the AoE flying around).

Aaaaaand… that’s it.

Don’t expect to go direct damage as a Necro in PvP and be taken seriously. Otherwise you’re in good shape.

Keep in mind that there are very many important WvW battles that don’t involve keeps, sieges, or big zergs.

A few other points:

-Despite the sillyness that Thieves with stealing fear, our version is actually quite powerful, especially for stomps and rezzes.

-The damaging wells are based off of power, as well as our Marks. Power Well/Staff/Dagger or Axe builds can do pretty nice AoE direct damage.

Radiodread.8469:

The utility that turn boons into conditions is a favorite of mine. I love watching guardians that get to 50% and pop “Save Yourselves!” for all the buffs. It never fails. Once they do, I convert all those to conditions, unload my own conditions, and then epidemic. It is a beautiful thing.

I do have to admit, this is a very fun moment, even with how displeased I am with the class at the moment. Particularly with 2,200+ Condition Damage stat (1500+ from gear, +350 or more from Might, +250 from Sigil, +100 from food).

alanis.6094:

Enerjak.2475:

So that I understand this correctly… you’re advocating the Axe in PvP? And you cite a 1 second fear as meaningful (particularly since our very presence in PvP gives enemy Thieves a free 4 second fear on a 40sec CD)?

…

……

………

…right.

Moving on…

@OP… Necro can perform in WvW. A mark/well build can lock down choke points and towers rather easily. An Epidemic conditionmancer will provide the same results. Minions are useless and you’re hurting yourself if you’re using them in PvP of any sort, to include WvW (particularly with all the AoE flying around).

Aaaaaand… that’s it.

Don’t expect to go direct damage as a Necro in PvP and be taken seriously. Otherwise you’re in good shape.

Keep in mind that there are very many important WvW battles that don’t involve keeps, sieges, or big zergs.

A few other points:

-Despite the sillyness that Thieves with stealing fear, our version is actually quite powerful, especially for stomps and rezzes.

-The damaging wells are based off of power, as well as our Marks. Power Well/Staff/Dagger or Axe builds can do pretty nice AoE direct damage.

I did note that Mark/Well builds are very viable (I run one myself with an alternate set of armor to maximize). You really don’t need to educate me on that.

You fear for 1 second on a stomp/rez. Great. It’s on cooldown for 30 seconds. Wonderful.

In 1 skill, a Thief shadow-steps to you at point blank, and gains a 4 second AoE fear on a 40 second cooldown. He can do this to you as many times as he wants until you’re dead. This, noting that Necromancer is deemed by the developers as the “Fear-specialized” class.

I do hope you see the difference. The first isn’t very meaningful in WvW (the time wasted casting the fear, I could probably have stacked 5 other conditions on the poor kitten, and let him rez… then pop Epidemic and laugh my kitten off as both of them now drop dead).

A fear will only stop them from rezzing for 1 second. Might be enough, might not.

By not fearing, I’ve just killed 2 birds with 1 stone.

Sometimes it is very good to bait your opponent. Their fallen allies is a superb way to do so.

I think the point is you fear someone about to stomp your bro, then rez your bro. Very doable, although you do may have to chain it with your staff fear in order to pull it off. Also it’s a 20 second cooldown from Death Shroud, or the AoE fear from a astaff is 40 secs (32 with traits). An instant interrupt that works through stuns, or an AoE interrupt, both of which also move them a little, are useful. Surely everyone can see that.

Also in a reply to someone on the first page, I meant exactly what Alanis said after me, I just said it in less words. We might not be the best at one thing such as direct damage, but the other things we bring with our direct damage such as various conditions, makes as as useful as another profession overall.

Death Shroud Doom will work through a stun (assuming you are already in Death Shroud). The Staff fear will not.

That said, you’ve an effective 2 seconds of fear every 32 seconds across two skills (only 1 second of AoE fear, assuming you trait into it) and give your enemy for free a 4 second AoE fear every 40 seconds.

But, taking the math out of the equation… you honestly believe 2 seconds worth of fear will be enough to not only get the poor kitten from stomping on your foe, but rez him as well?

As soon as you fear him, he’s just going to be angry, with his combat cooldowns primed, and your fears (only reliable CC) on cooldown. Before you can get your friend up, he’s going to smash your face while you’re prone and helpless trying to get your fellow helpless friend up.

Couldn’t ask for a better sitting duck. At least a downed player can defend himself somewhat.

Of course, you could always simply engage the one doing the stomping directly once he’s feared off… and all he has to do to make sure your friend doesn’t rez up is send a ranged autoattack his way every time he starts putting his hand up to heal himself and he’ll die, meanwhile your fears are exhausted already and you’re caught in a 1v1, which is not where the Necromancer in GW2 shines.

You put yourself from a position of options to a position of vulnerability.

On the flip side, you could let him sit through the 5 second long animation to stomp on your friend, save your fears, and stack a ridiculous number of conditions on him. Your friend will die, and your fears will be ready. At the same time, your enemy will walk away from your dead friend severely wounded and crippled/frozen. Then you can fear your enemy to interrupt channeling skills instead of the stomp, you survive, and kill him.

You can then revive your friend.

Fear is better spent as a combat skill interrupt – not as a means of getting someone off of a downed friend.

The only time I’d recommend that is if you’re moving in on the attacker 3+v1 so that, even without your fears, you are guaranteed success against a possibly superior opponent.

Just hope the downed player you’re trying to help is worth helping, isn’t kitten and uses his downed skills to interrupt the stomp himself.

Necromancers are not that great in WvW. Perhaps in smaller group warfare they can actually shine but in zergs and 1v1 they are not a huge threat.

Marks- First off their damage isn’t that great vs their cooldown time. The trait line you need to go down to get them bigger has counter-productive traits(jagged horror) and useless ones(more toughness with minions). The area denial is minimal at best. All you need is 1 person to dodge into them to mitigate it for everyone else. A elemental firestorm or Ranger arrow storm(sorry I don’t know the names!) is far better at Area denial.

Wells- 900 range. That is truly killer in a zerg vs zerg. Getting that close usually means death no matter how tanky you are.

BoP+Epidemic- Against any decent zerg this is useless. It gets removed right away via AOE’s and combo fields.

Fear- It’s 1 second, 2 if you spec for it. It helps but it isn’t going to break a zerg.

DS- Nice for survivability.

Don’t get me wrong, I’ve done the whole stack marks+wells+DS into an enemy zerg and come out alive with piles of loot; BUT that does not happen often and even less now with everyone building burst. Even with DS most burst builds can take you out in 5s or less.

I have an 80 necro, thief, and warrior. The necro just isn’t that great. They have some utility but utility doesn’t win battles. I’ve done a ton of WvW on my necro, it was meant to be my WvW too, but I just find it lacking. The class just doesn’t bring much to the table. Conditions are currently not scaling as well as the burst stats, so it’s only natural that a condition class isn’t going to be doing as well.

Nemesis.8593:

Zintair.1987:

Nemesis.8593:

You should watch, if you have the time my necromancer WvW tutorial and WvW example… maybe it will give you a different view on things…

They are posted in the Necromancer builds sticky here on the forum.

That’s like expecting people to do research before making a post on the forums. It just isn’t gonna happen lol.

Multiple stickies with TOO MUCH information yet here we are lol.

There are multiple “Necromancer builds” posts sticky-ed on the necromancer forum made by Nemesis.8593 ? How strange…

Whats strange is how self-absorbed you are to think my comment referred to you or your guide in anyway other than pointing out it was there for reference.

I have thief and necro and from this poitn will never play the necro when I’m solo since I’ve seen what thief can do, but I will still play the necro with my guild. I don’t think conditions are that bad tbh because with the ground aoe usually you will get just 1 tick whereas with conditions they will still be taking damage when they move; and until they can cleanse it they will be in combat and unable to regen back. I haven’t played since they changed epidemic though; so if it’s as hard to hit/get to work as corrupt boon now, this may put me off.