Guild Wars 2

Well that is complete joke

when equipped with staff, and spectral wall, necro already has 3 fears (DS3) and

right traits and runes will give you fear nearing 4 sec

plague increases health by twice and give mass blindness to everyone meleeing you

DS absorbs a lot of damage and can be cast when stunned (can even couple it with

DS3)

And equipped with rabid gear, necro will have decent health and armor and

as all of you know necro has tons of condition removal

just try playing this class, and don’t cry about losing to some obvious counters i mean

you don’t expect a build to be strong against every single kittening enemy or the game

is broken

Necro’s obvious deficiency is not in defense but in mobility, flesh wurm takes years to

cast, and DS2 too.

Go take a Necro into a tournament against a coordinated team, and see what happens when they focus you.

Or don’t, and I’ll save you the time. You die. The only time you don’t die is when you have lots of LF, or Flesh Wurm is sitting around way outside the fight (rarely used), have an amazing team to peel for you, or you have perfect positioning, and your team can capitilize on the overextension.

Now compare to other classes. Mesmers, eles, thieves, and warriors all have ways to get the hell out of the way, and also ways to avoid damage while doing so (blocks, stealth, blinks, etc.). Then there are Guardians and Rangers. Both have twice as many dodges as we do, one has blocks up the kitten , the other has evades. What do we get to compare? Two dodges and DS.

I’ve played this class since beta, and I even play some of the tankiest specs possible. We just don’t have the innate ability to live through focus, and that is what people complain about.

In deathshroud (and plague, since you brought it up) we cannot heal, we cannot condition cleanse and cannot stun break. If you leave DS to do any of these things, then there is a 10 second window where you can’t go back in.

Having a lot of buffering isn’t great defense, it’s a great buffer. There’s a difference.

Bhawb.7408:

We just don’t have the innate ability to live through focus, and that is what people complain about.

What it comes down to is our lack of invulnerability/block/mobility moves isn’t adequately compensated for, but it’s difficult for Anet to compensate us adequately without making us unstoppable monsters in small fights.

Stuff like Mist Form, Elixer S, Distortion, and Renewed Focus allow their user to take potentially infinite damage for a given period of time while also avoiding any and all CC effects thrown in that time. An Elementalist in Mist Form can effectively tank an entire server’s attacks in a big zerg fight for 3 seconds, but they can’t parley that level of tanking power into a bigger advantage in a point fight. If that Ele pops Mist Form in a 1v1, it’s still only going to buy him 3 seconds. Mobility skills can simulate invulnerability, too: a Mesmer using Blink to dodge the attacks from a zerg and make it to a tower portal would also essentially be avoiding an incredible amount of damage and CC.

Necros are supposed to rely on Deathshroud for our defense, but since it scales linearly with damage taken, that means we would need millions of points of Life Force to be able to do what an Ele does with Mist Form, which would make us totally unkillable by anything BUT a zerg. Since that’s obviously insane, we end up balanced for 1v1s, which leaves us with a serious defense deficiency when focused by more than 1 player.

The solution I like the most is to put some sort of cap on how much damage we can take per second while in DS. There could be all sorts of ways to do it but the basic idea would be to calibrate it so that the enhanced defense wouldn’t kick in until being struck by multiple targets. That’s a pretty serious change, though. I don’t know that Anet would be willing to do something so drastic just yet. They could also revert the changes to Spectral Walk and Spectral Armor and then some, so we would generate substantially more Life Force when being focused, but that also seems unlikely given their reticence to go back on changes.

That’s why putting an ICD on stuff like withering precision and spec armor/walk is a bad idea, – without an ICD you have an equal chance to reduce incoming dps of every person you hit (withering precision). With the ICD but the new, more powerful effects, you can reduce the incoming damage of a single target, it doesn’t scale to multiple people at all; same with spectral armor and walk. They either need an ICD per enemy effected, or no ICD at all (of course their effects would have to reduced a tad to compensate.)
This is why defensive mitigation (protection, invuln evades etc) is much better (and more balanced), because it scales evenly regardless of how many people are attacking you. Offensive mitigation on the other hand will often either be balanced for 1v1 and poor for 1vX, or balanced for 1vX, and OP for 1v1

Excluding Spectral wall can be simply walked around or dodged thru.
So, if all your traits and gear are built around getting 4 sec fear + unblockable marks. 40sec CD gives your staff fear a what % up time?
Drop into DS every 20sec to fear 1 target, much more up time for your build/gear being built around fear, but also mitigates DS used defensive.
Add on top of that fear & terror nurfs, to balance burning…

As pointed out, no heals/condi clean in transforms, then the 1sec+ lag before you get buttons/heals back when leaving transformed state.

No Sir, we are not the supper bunker you proclaim. Even excluding our ‘active’ defense can all be countered.

As for mobility, this we expect, it’s as advertised. Win or Die once in combat. Immobilize someone who’s in hug distance after torment was not the gap closer/stop them running away they promised tho.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Bhawb.7408:

We just don’t have the innate ability to live through focus, and that is what people complain about.

What it comes down to is our lack of invulnerability/block/mobility moves isn’t adequately compensated for, but it’s difficult for Anet to compensate us adequately without making us unstoppable monsters in small fights.

No, what they are incapable of compensating for is waiting out the whiner classes actually taking the time to figure out how the necro class works and adapting appropriately. Necros could have literally a million LF points and be unkillable in that form, but if they’re CC’d and unable to do it (as we always are in DS against a competent player) it doesn’t matter. It would equate to a perma-stealth thief. Eventually you just disable him to the point he’s no longer a threat and move on, except with necro you have no worries about them chasing you down because….well, they can’t. Chopping up DS like last weeks pot roast to make it last “longer” isn’t the answer. An “attrition” class without attrition and reliable burst/escapes/stability(or damage manipulation, not even negation really, just reliable ways to deal with it) is just a walking points charity. “Hey! I’m a necro! Come hit me, get free points! No punishment for doing so!”

Nay of the Ether.8913:

Necros could have literally a million LF points and be unkillable in that form, but if they’re CC’d and unable to do it (as we always are in DS against a competent player) it doesn’t matter.

This is an incredible exaggeration. No one has enough CC in this game to keep a character locked down indefinitely. That’s just not how the game is designed. If we were effectively immortal while DS was up, we would be borderline unkillable, period. They could CC us for the first few seconds if they wanted (though, Foot in the Grave is always an option), but we’d just be able to eat the CC and then murder them with incessant Life Blasts.

Which isn’t to say we couldn’t use some way to deal with chain CC. But if we were so unkillable with DS up and dealt so much damage that an enemy tPvP team had to put in a coordinated effort to blow all their CC on pinning us down until we ran out of LF from natural degeneration, we would already have done a better job of distracting them than anyone else in the game could and our team should’ve won the free teamfight handily.

Shrimp Burgre.9527:

Well that is complete joke when equipped with staff, and spectral wall, necro already has 3 fears (DS3) and right traits and runes will give you fear nearing 4 sec plague increases health by twice and give mass blindness to everyone meleeing you DS absorbs a lot of damage and can be cast when stunned (can even couple it with DS3) And equipped with rabid gear, necro will have decent health and armor and as all of you know necro has tons of condition removal just try playing this class, and don’t cry about losing to some obvious counters i mean you don’t expect a build to be strong against every single kittening enemy or the game is broken
Necro’s obvious deficiency is not in defense but in mobility, flesh wurm takes years to cast, and DS2 too.

Notice how I removed all the unnecessary spaces between the sentences? Yeah.
Anyway, all of your points are void against any PVE boss with one-hit kill mechanics.

Shrimp Burgre.9527:

Blablabla Im a PvP-only kid

Dungeon says hi.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Bhawb.7408:

We just don’t have the innate ability to live through focus, and that is what people complain about.

What it comes down to is our lack of invulnerability/block/mobility moves isn’t adequately compensated for, but it’s difficult for Anet to compensate us adequately without making us unstoppable monsters in small fights.

Stuff like Mist Form, Elixer S, Distortion, and Renewed Focus allow their user to take potentially infinite damage for a given period of time while also avoiding any and all CC effects thrown in that time. An Elementalist in Mist Form can effectively tank an entire server’s attacks in a big zerg fight for 3 seconds, but they can’t parley that level of tanking power into a bigger advantage in a point fight. If that Ele pops Mist Form in a 1v1, it’s still only going to buy him 3 seconds. Mobility skills can simulate invulnerability, too: a Mesmer using Blink to dodge the attacks from a zerg and make it to a tower portal would also essentially be avoiding an incredible amount of damage and CC.

The other thing to keep in mind that spike burst comes from powerful attacks that also have a relatively long cooldown. As such, that 3 seconds of invulnerability on a long cooldown very nicely counter plays the spike attack on a long cooldown.

I believe the bigger issue is the lack of a reliable disengage. Necromancers have Plague and Flesh Wurm. Plague is slow, susceptible to condition damage, and CC. The recent EU tournaments have shown this: when a Necro popped plague form during the tournament, stability was typically stripped within ~4 seconds.

Flesh Wurm has LOS issues and can get killed easily.

Honestly I don’t mind that we can’t disengage. Going back to the lore that drives the profession (at least to a degree) we are the school of Aggression. It seems a bit silly that we’d handle fights by running away. I much prefer where they are going (and admittedly have not reached yet) that we should be able to wade into the thick of combat, and get proportionately stronger because of it.

Offensively we do have this ability, with a ridiculous amount of potential AoE, and the singularly unique ability to turn even single target utilities into AoE. It is defensively that we need real work, and I think they need to accomplish this by upping our life stealing and making it a more significant mechanic (life stealing essentially scales AoE), and giving us more LF generation that depends on per-hit mechanics, and can be AoE.

The Stability is of meh important on Plague, in my experience. The plague pulses regardless of whether you’re stunned or not, so stuns and knockdowns are just shorter, glorified immobilizes while in Plague. The Stability is certainly useful, mind you, but the ability is still really strong even if Stability gets stripped.

You’re right, though: 3 seconds of invulnerability every 60 seconds can go really far in spike mitigation, and Necro disengage is indeed pretty rough compared to other professions. It’s hard to see what ANet could add that wouldn’t blow apart class distinctions or straight-up outshine current Necro options, though.

Bhawb.7408:

Honestly I don’t mind that we can’t disengage. Going back to the lore that drives the profession (at least to a degree) we are the school of Aggression. It seems a bit silly that we’d handle fights by running away. I much prefer where they are going (and admittedly have not reached yet) that we should be able to wade into the thick of combat, and get proportionately stronger because of it.

Offensively we do have this ability, with a ridiculous amount of potential AoE, and the singularly unique ability to turn even single target utilities into AoE. It is defensively that we need real work, and I think they need to accomplish this by upping our life stealing and making it a more significant mechanic (life stealing essentially scales AoE), and giving us more LF generation that depends on per-hit mechanics, and can be AoE.

Agreed. Though what I’d most like to see is a reverse-course on the direction they took Spectral Armor so that our defenses are stronger when fighting multiple targets than when fighting just one. Life Transfer already does this to some extent, we just need more stuff like that.

I actually like the core idea behind what I think they did with SA. When you combine SA and DS you can actually absorb pretty gigantic hits, and I think they are trying to convert it into a singular burst protection skill, which is fine so long as they continue buffing other things to cover for the lack of multiple-person generation.

Shrimp Burgre.9527: Blablabla Im a PvP-only kid

^- Ahh, well then, I fully agree.
They should definitely remove death shroud, and lower our hit points to 100.
There’s also too many buttons, we should just have one that adds all the conditions in the game at max stacks, at quad damage.

How awesome would that be? It would remove that all that silly things like countering others attacks. If your lag was good, you’d get to click it on someone before you died, if they didn’t notice you were a necro, you might even get 2-3 people clicked.

It’s not just there where it would help refine the game. When you roll a necro, you could simply start in heart of mists. They could get rid of that pesky portal to L.A. that way you wouldn’t even be tempted when bored to stuff in that world.

Actually, stuff the button, make it passive. Clicking is a bit much ya know.
Oh you could get rid of the annoying loading maps, when you click Join a round, it could just have a window that says “You win, you big man, big big man.” and hand you loot. Ohhh, with a girly, with huge boobs on the edge of the window!

Reduced loading times, get a wall paper, with a girly with huge boobs, and the caption “You win, you big big man”.

The Dev’s should sooo hire me, I’d save them soo much money and make PvP kids sooo happy!

DargorV.8571:

Shrimp Burgre.9527:

Blablabla Im a PvP-only kid

Dungeon says hi.

is any of the dungeons in this game even remotely hard? i haven’t experienced any difficulty in any dungeons and i’m usually only guy left alive when kitten happens to res them with my signet of undeath

Shrimp Burgre.9527:

is any of the dungeons in this game even remotely hard? i haven’t experienced any difficulty in any dungeons and i’m usually only guy left alive when kitten happens to res them with my signet of undeath

You can only revive downed players with signet of undeath, not res dead players. If you reach the point where your entire team is downed, and you’re the only one left alive, then maybe you should be helping them up sooner… and not with that signet, because it has such a slow cast time that you might as well help people up normally.

Bhawb.7408:

I actually like the core idea behind what I think they did with SA. When you combine SA and DS you can actually absorb pretty gigantic hits, and I think they are trying to convert it into a singular burst protection skill, which is fine so long as they continue buffing other things to cover for the lack of multiple-person generation.

That’s just it. They are taking tiny steps into the direction of tanking hits with LF. We can all agree it’s a ton better than it once was. Whether it’s in the right place is still unknown. I would also like to see more LF generation spread across the weapon sets instead of having staff #1 be the best LF generation by a long shot.