Guild Wars 2

I want to start leveling a caster for wvw. There are way too many eles and mesmers out there and I like my power necro in spvp. However im really disheartened because necros get stomped hard in wvw. I dueled a few good necros on my condi bunker ranger and their damage was laughable. I’m able to put out way more single target condi dps and reapply it way faster.

So any reasons to invest in gearing up a necro? Any objective gosu necros out there care to convince me?

nerva.7940:

care to convince me?

Not really.

Don’t do try and play things you don’t want to in a video game. It rarely ends well.

I want to roll a necro but am discouraged. Still welcoming responses from people with basic reading comprehension

I’m not even nearly “gosu” (I’m still pretty awful at PvP!) but I’ll point out what I know.

From what WvW I have done I feel that Necros simply aren’t that great for roaming because you are not fast enough to run away from big Zergs, not even if you maintain permaswiftness.
(Which is one big reason I also made a Thief later on.)

Since Necros have high health and tons of AoE that makes Condition and Hybrid Necros great in Zergs.
You can also suppress walls nicely with the Staff.

The amount of AoE Necros have makes them surprisingly good against the ever so popular Glass Cannon Thieves as well.
Shadow Refuge strips off the Thief’s Stealth if they leave it prematurely, which means that when you see an enemy Thief run into one all you need to do is mass AoE it and (provided they are glass cannon) they’ll be in a very bad shape if not downed.

As for Mesmers, D/D Eles and Rangers… I have no clue how to deal with them honestly.
No doubt a better Necro than me could give hints there.

Necros are indeed not that great at putting conditions on a target, certainly not in comparison to a trapper ranger. When people talk about the class as condition masters, they’re refering to the ability to control conditions through transfers, Epidemic and the boon<>condition reversals.

Necro = Living biowarfare artillery

Ive been a necro since launch, and i am still in love with it. Yes we are bugged to kitten but ive tested out multiple builds and with abit of survivability a necro rocks in wvw

I play a Power Necro and do just WvW. Imo if you want to roam around looking for fights on your own there are better choices available than a necro, roll a thief or an engie. But if you go for coordinated group, zerg fight´s the necro is great because you have so much useful utilities and aoe damage. The Wells alone are great and when you see 3 necros firing plague at once with chilling darkness in a enemy zerg, it´s devastating.

you shouldn’t play the necro

sorry you just don’t sound like you are cut out for it…

nerva.7940:

I want to roll a necro but am discouraged. Still welcoming responses from people with basic reading comprehension

I love these threads.

Fun is subjective. Someone telling you you will enjoy something is pointless.

Maybe roll one yourself and do your own research?

if you play WvW you should never play glasscannon anyhow.. I play Necro and I unless focused or frozen and with major skill lag i dont die.

and being a necro you arent there to do massive dmg, you are there to put conditions on the enemies, such as blinds, also removing conditions and boons.

a good powerbuild i heard can do hits for 4k, but ofcourse you will die all the time just like all glasscannons do.

You decide if its a class for you or not.

Necro are indeed underpowered. But I won’t call them fodders, since they are not totally terrible. But unless you love the class (like me) don’t waste money into it.

We have our place; as a conditions build I can keep the walls of a tower clear with staff/scepter/off-dagger AoE and Epidemic. Likewise on defence keeping attackers away from the gate is fun, not to mention the damage I can do with siege now the condi damage scales with yours.

Not so good in the open as burst direct damage classes tend to rule the roost out there, still useful in team support though, laying down AoE on top of the front line.

I will hang my head in shame and admit I am levelling a Mesmer alt who I have taken into WvW as well and while I probably do more damage with that character I don’t feel as useful to the team, especially in a siege situation.

Dredlord.8076:

you shouldn’t play the necro

sorry you just don’t sound like you are cut out for it…

The Necro is not ammused~!
Nothing is more rewarding then putting a Well of Corruption down on an oncoming zerg and watching that 25 might go poof, or leading a charge as a Blind/Chill plague an shutting disabling everything you come across~^ ^. Necro has amazing zerg synergy

If you want to roam around in WvW and duel people and win 90% of the time with the least amount of effort, go roll a theif, and dont’ make silly threads like this where you complain about beating a necro, or loosing as a necro 1v1. ~

does anyone actually stay in wells? wells work just fine on points in spvp, but everyone in wvw usually scatters after the first tick. dunno, just what ive seen. the other thing is wells only have a 600 casting range, which means youre basically point blank. whereas mesmers can cast glamour spells from 1200 while doing full dps.

Laii.2780:

If you want to roam around in WvW and duel people and win 90% of the time with the least amount of effort, go roll a theif, and dont’ make silly threads like this where you complain about beating a necro, or loosing as a necro 1v1. ~

oh im not complaining at all actually. just giving you my observations. necros seem to be downed quite easily in both larger and smaller engagements, unless theyre bunker in which case they dont really do much.

Condition necro is great until you play in higher tiers were zergs run mass condition removal. Power necro is alright but you are kind of pigeonholed into using the staff for aoe purposes and the marks dont scale that well with power.

Does plague blind now work with the chill trait? Did they fix this?

You will never know until you roll one up to lvl 80 … I had to play 3 classes before I finally settled down with a Necromancer. Initially I played a Conditionmancer, then I tried a power build, and then I came back to Conditions with slight modifications. PvE wise Necro got the highest solo-DPS. In groups it is diminished by bleeding cap (25). In WvW I find it extremely fun to kill people on walls (Staff #3 → Staff#2 → Staff#4 → Epidemic → Staff#5 )

Torqky.3682:

Does plague blind now work with the chill trait? Did they fix this?

yes, they did fix it. people will try to desperately dodge away from you xD

I’ve played alot of Necromancer in WvW, so I believe I have a pretty good grasp on what they can do and cannot do there:

Necromancer is NOT a good roam/solo class for WvW, simply for the fact that we have 0 on demand blinks. Both of our blinks are situational (DS 2, while not terrible for blinking in WvW due to all sorts of enemies, still requires an enemy in a favorable position to blink to) and the wurm requires proper positioning and set up beforehand. While we can keep up permaswiftness, it is simply not enough in WvW when numbers are against you. You cannot freely engage and disengage at your whim (quickly).

Necromancer is a GREAT small skirmish/zerg class, though. With the ability to apply many conditions to multiple people at the same time and zone control via wells and marks, a good Necro in WvW will make sure the enemy group/zerg moves particular ways in order to avoid all of his damage (in the same time putting themselves into a more disadvantageous position against your team). I love leading on small groups to avoid my wells and marks purposefully so as to lead them into a corner or into more of my group (say, into siege?)

Another thing that is highly overlooked about Necromancers is that we have boon stripping. Yes, there’s not a lot of it, and other classes have some too, but by and far, boon stripping is almost non-existent anywhere in the game outside a few situations where it is exceedingly useful. Whenever I’m in a small party, I like to call the targets before I hit them with Corrupt Boon or Spinal Shivers. Everyone has boons on constantly in WvW, and being able to decimate single targets by stripping their boons off is so satisfying.

Don’t forget group support too. DS supporting is so much more noticeable in WvW because:

1) People FLOCK to Necromancers simply because we do not have on demand blinks. They believe it easy to take us out. In some situations (like being zerged), this is true. In small groups, however, there simply isn’t enough damage output to burst you down with DS.

2) DS lets you apply conditions upon activation, apply boons to yourself, and heal allies and conditions. It’s awesome to do this in small skirmishes when they rush you with CC, ESPECIALLY if you have stability on DS activation. So fun.

We also have some great form Elites for small skirmishes and zergs. The two forms are definitely the “oh crap” signal to the enemy team, and for good reason. I love running in and Plague Forming in the middle of a zerg and causing complete chaos with cripple and blind spam. It really is noticeable. Just always make sure you are near the edge of the zerg when your form (and stability) is about to end.

You can go so much more in depth about the uses of Necromancers in WvW, there really is a good amount of viable builds that can do a whole lot in your group and setting. Most important thing is building for what you need: the Necromancer can do that.

Play necro, if you enjoy it, keep going. If you don’t, quit. If anything, you’ll learn a little (hopefully) about how they work so you can beat them better.

Unskilled players are fodder. Not just necromancers.

Overextenders are fodder for my crit Necro… Seriously, if they overextend they better be prepared to be condition removal baited with chill, then immediately rooted-well bombed-ds#4’d from 100% to 0 in seconds..

Like Siggy Kewts said they are both great for small skirmish and zerging, especially zergs with condition builds..

Power/Crit setups can be awesome 1v1’ers.. It gets a bit rough to 1vx though compared to other classes (depending on what youre up against) just because we don’t have much in the way of avoiding damage (blink/tele/stealth etc and no fricken vigor, seriously WHY are we the only class without vigor).

If in group battles you find yourself focused and have immobiles spammed on you, well you are pretty much toast for the most part..

I was frustrated for a long time playing Necro (started with condition and now am on a power/crit build). Mostly because I was used to playing more easy mode classes with get out of jail free cards (mesmer,ele,thief)… Now I’m more used to it and know my limits, I have a lot more fun and collect loot bags all day long…

In terms of roaming in WvW the ONLY thing that really bothers me with Necro is the lack of reliable stomping technique. In 1v1 it does not matter, but in 1vX it does. Hopefully there is a walk-around for that which works pretty well.
The way I handle this is to continue to spam conditions on a downed player, because downed players do not remove conditions. Then when they have enough, I use Epidemic on them to transfer conditions to other enemies trying to put me down. After you can fear them to ensure they will be eaten properly and not heal.

I find that in group battles and sieges (attack & defence) , clever positioning of the Flesh Worm can be one of the greatest survival assets to the necro when the kitten hits the fan. I carry Wormy everywhere I go and place him way back out of range to use him as a quick escape mechanism. Doesn’t help much with roaming though…

For roaming I usually drop WoC and Chillblains then leg-it towards the nearest choke point or cliff. A timely knockdown from the Flesh Golem can save your hide (even if it doesn’t, it is therapeutic seeing those chasing you on their kitten for a couple of seconds).

thanks guys, i am intrigued. what gear would you recommend? typically condition/precision hybrids?

Necros can perform any job in WvW actually. Though our best and easiest is siege offense and defense. We are also effective in zergs except vs extremely coordinated teams who area wise to quickly removing conditions.

We can solo camps easily and even roam against most 1v1 competition, but don’t be fooled, you better be twice as skilled if facing a FoTM opponent, because the game is balanced in their favor.

We are good in small group fights, but again high coordination opponents are a problem because we lack escapes to get out of burst targeting.

Should amend, we are not good at attacking siege unless you are a power build.

Basically, Necro can be good in WvW, even powerful, but its not easy and if you just want to hammer buttons and be effective, I’d pick something else. Necro demands a dedicated player that really wants to master their class. Understanding how to make a synergistic build is also vital, you can’t just throw gear and traits anywhere and expect the innate class abilities to carry you.

nerva.7940:

thanks guys, i am intrigued. what gear would you recommend? typically condition/precision hybrids?

I would recommend Condition build with full Rabid gear, even for WvW despite people saying it is not efficient – this is not true. But in the end you need to experiment yourself and find your own play style.

I will usually outlast the rest of my group, mostly knights gear and plague ftw. Jumping into shroud at the right times to absorb spikes and also buff/debuff (with traits) is key.

Your perception of how strong or weak a necro is will vary depending on the type of wvw you play.
You can duel as a necro. The only classes that are next to impossible to beat, if you don’t outskill your opponent, are bunker dd and condition mesmers. But almost all classes have similar problems against them.

You can solo roam as a necro. It just requires you to use spectral walk, flesh wurm and a lot of map awareness. If you want to roam you are better off going for a coordinated group. Necros synergizes very well with any class.

Where the class really shines is in a coordinated guild. Both power and condition builds fulfill the same role: wells and debuffs. The difference in playstyle is minor. If you want to see some footage on how this looks, check out Pryda from RG.

[link to twitch tv channel: http://de.twitch.tv/prydatv/b/355515191]

I don’t play in “zergs”, so i can’t give you any advice on it.
Have fun with your necro!

Jiiub.7135:

if you play WvW you should never play glasscannon anyhow.. I play Necro and I unless focused or frozen and with major skill lag i dont die.

and being a necro you arent there to do massive dmg, you are there to put conditions on the enemies, such as blinds, also removing conditions and boons.

a good powerbuild i heard can do hits for 4k, but ofcourse you will die all the time just like all glasscannons do.

You decide if its a class for you or not.

Completely disagree. Never lost a 1v1 with my glass cannon build. DS is too strong. So if you know how to play a necro properly and use DS properly you can do tons of damage and out survive any class in a 1on1. Only disadvantage is a necro cant get away from a large group (Have no reliable escape or disengage).

I run solo or small groups in wvw. Power/tough axe/focus build.

When your solo you can kill most people 1v1 minus the following confussion/condition mesmers that clone a lot. They drop target so much that its near impossible to kill them. D/d ele well I don’t die to them they can run at any time. P/d thief becuase again they drop target a lot and wear you down.

The only other problem you’ll run into but it’s to be expected with how Tanky we are is escaping is not really an option. Once your in the fight your commited.

lets put it like this #OP Condi Necro often looses to Ranger but Ranger looses to Everything else & Necro dosent. Make your choice after that

Necromancers are one of the most powerful classes in WvWvW and probably the most overpowered if you play them correctly, but its a very unforgiving class if you make a lot of mistakes.

necros have a huge tendency to get focused because they cannot get away. Necros have two options when focused… one pop DS and hope it can absorb the initial impact as you get cc banged all over the place (unless you build 30 into SR and get stability). The secon d option is slip into plague form and hope you can survive the onslaught. Once targeted and in combat, your stuck in combat (you’re not going anywhere).

SO, in small group combat, this is ok, because you can survive it (more so in a power/toughness/vit build). However, start increasing numbers and your screwed. You dont have the mobility, escapes or invulnerabilities that other classes do that allow you to really survive a focused attack. Your fear, even when traited is max 2 something seconds (2 ticks), and unless its staff 5, its not aoe. Even staff 5 is limted to 5 enemies, granted they are not stabilitied or invulernable to conditions.

These are severly limiting factors. If you’re ignored in fight, you will feel powerful as you just burn people down with conditions. If you go power build, you’re awesome in 1v1 fights, but i find less effective in group fights, unless your well bombing (which can work well, if the enemy stands in the area for 5 pulses; or you bottleneck them and make it hard for them to get away).

On a necro you will really do well in small group combat. In large group combat, as long as you can predict the eb and flow of the zerg to zerg fight and stay in the back, you can apply some conditions, though i doubt you’ll get above 7 or so, because they will fall back and you want to apply epidemic (which can be effective). Power builds like to say that you can use staff effectively, but i find that the damage from staffs are not that great actually. I think a normal rotation, with crits, you might see staff 2 – 1k, staff 3 – 1k, staff 4 2-3k, staff 5 – 500. not bad, but really we are only talking 5.5k IF you hit all 5 marks on a target, and your not doing it often.

The other thing that i find really limited in wvw, especially in large scale fights, are the slow kitten casting speeds. it is too slow. there is no other class that moves slower and has slower casting speeds. I CANNOT support, nor can I fathom the reasoning behind gimping us so much with slow casting speeds. why? the dont do more damage than other classes, and if you are applying conditions, you’re not hitting them hard, and they are likely going to be removed.

I am not asking for a compelte overhaul but I would REALLy like to see them speed up our casting times, and increase the damage out conditions do when initially applied, given that they are so easily removed.

Condition removal and increasing our power builds was a focus of the DEVs right after release, and nothing was ever done.

Sorry, I don’t think ANET follows through on its promises with regard with what they are focusing on.

I do not think we are weak, i just think we are too gimped and too situational at times.

Monkeymonger.9235:

[link to twitch tv channel: http://de.twitch.tv/prydatv/b/355515191]

I don’t play in “zergs”, so i can’t give you any advice on it.
Have fun with your necro!

other than aoe blindness, i dont see him doing anything useful at all =( it’s not like they need the mitigation anyway.

nerva.7940:

does anyone actually stay in wells? wells work just fine on points in spvp, but everyone in wvw usually scatters after the first tick. dunno, just what ive seen. the other thing is wells only have a 600 casting range, which means youre basically point blank. whereas mesmers can cast glamour spells from 1200 while doing full dps.

Laii.2780:

If you want to roam around in WvW and duel people and win 90% of the time with the least amount of effort, go roll a theif, and dont’ make silly threads like this where you complain about beating a necro, or loosing as a necro 1v1. ~

oh im not complaining at all actually. just giving you my observations. necros seem to be downed quite easily in both larger and smaller engagements, unless theyre bunker in which case they dont really do much.

The only classes that give me trouble on my power necro (and yes I run a pure berserker build) are good thieves and bunker eles. Every other class is pretty easy to down.

Traited wells actually have a 900 casting range and the best trick is to chill your target with with staff #3 as you are closing in then switch to dagger and hit them with the dagger #3 root followed by casting your wells. I use Warhorn offhand so I usually immediately interrupt them and start wailing on them with my dagger while they stew in my two wells.

Anyone that is not built for survivability will melt in that combo. To those that say glass cannon necro builds can’t survive… we are actually one of the classes that can best survive as a glass cannon as long as you run with 30 points in Soul Reaping. The extra offensive pressure ends fights more quickly and you have a much bigger lifeforce pool for better deathshroud mitigation (plus faster lifeforce regen). You also get your only real source of stability from the Soul Reaping tree which even at 3 seconds can make a huge difference.

If you need a thread of convincing to play a class, you shouldn’t play it.

Gryph.8237:

. Necros have two options when focused… one pop DS as you get cc banged all over the place

Just one question, How attractive is CC?

kidbs.8920:

The only classes that give me trouble on my power necro (and yes I run a pure berserker build) are good thieves and bunker eles. Every other class is pretty easy to down.

Traited wells actually have a 900 casting range and the best trick is to chill your target with with staff #3 as you are closing in then switch to dagger and hit them with the dagger #3 root followed by casting your wells. I use Warhorn offhand so I usually immediately interrupt them and start wailing on them with my dagger while they stew in my two wells.

Anyone that is not built for survivability will melt in that combo. To those that say glass cannon necro builds can’t survive… we are actually one of the classes that can best survive as a glass cannon as long as you run with 30 points in Soul Reaping. The extra offensive pressure ends fights more quickly and you have a much bigger lifeforce pool for better deathshroud mitigation (plus faster lifeforce regen). You also get your only real source of stability from the Soul Reaping tree which even at 3 seconds can make a huge difference.

I don’t always agree with kidbs, but in this case he is correct. We are more powerful than people realize. There is a screenshot someone posted where with D/W they hit 9k in the 1 second chain. Against most classes that will trainwreck them quickly.

I can’t speak for wvwvw, but in tournament play the only thing that hurts Power mancers are bunker ele’s and good patient thieves. Against MM Grenadineers and condition rangers are the only things that can wipe you out.