Necros are that bad?

Necros are that bad?

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

I just started a Necro, I thought I would use it for WvW (Which I am not all that interested in), and Fractals, which I quite enjoy.

I was under the impression that Necro’s were quite good for Fractals, but everything I am hearing about them almost makes me think I shouldn’t bother.

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Posted by: Nightwrath.1679

Nightwrath.1679

Well if u ask others they will prob say go guardian or engi or gg mode warrior…. but I started with a necro and sticking with him. They are fun just take awhile getting use to we do not offer much heals as other classes but we have nice condi to boon conversion and vice versa.

Our dmg is nice as well we offer great condi dmg and some nice power dmg.

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Posted by: chunx.9521

chunx.9521

The simple truth is that necromancers offer very little support to parties, while being outclassed by almost all other classes in terms of damage as well. In addition, conditions are just overall in a weak spot right now, having a cap that directly limits how much damage a party can do in conditions. If you choose to run a power build, engineers simply stack much more vulnerability than you, and warriors/thieves just plain outdamage you no matter what.

Almost everything a necromancer can do, another class can do better essentially. In fact, I would even go so far to say that necromancer is arguably the worst class in the game right now for fractals. Warriors offer support (might, shout heals, banners) while dealing some of the highest damage in the game. Guardians heal parties and keep boons up while dealing decent damage. Engineers stack a lot of vulnerability (maybe even maintain 25 stacks), and can at the same time do a decent amount of damage and perhaps even better damage through conditions than necromancers, though they have better builds to run than conditions. Elementalists are the king of AoE damage and put down a lot of fire fields for combos. They also stack might (probably the best might stacker in the game) and can heal parties through water attunement. They also have turrets and healing kits to support the party. Mesmers offer utility to the group, through portals and time warps and stuff. Thieves deal a ton of damage, on par with or sometimes even more than warriors, but admittedly their group support is weak as well, only being able to occasionally stealth allies in sticky situations. Rangers (melee ones that is, not talking about bearbows) deal okay amounts of damage (still more than necromancers) but can support parties with their spirits (traited Frost Spirit increases the entire party’s damage output by 7%). What can necromancers really do that others can’t? The only thing that comes to mind is the AoE blind through Plague and Well of Darkness, and can remove conditions from allies. Then again, guardian shouts remove conditions much more reliably, and elementalists/guardians/engineers heal better than necromancer wells.

What necromancers are good at is PvP and WvW where the broad range of conditions offers a lot of constant pressure on people and great crowd control. Unfortunately, crowd control is near useless in fractals and PvE, especially since many of the boss monsters are straight up immune to crowd control (“Unshakeable”, “Defiant”, lol).

Feel free to correct me if anythings wrong, my experience has been 90% just necromancer and guardian. I made a guardian purely to do dungeons with cause I didn’t want to be a burden to my party.

(edited by chunx.9521)

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

A good necro is helpful in some fractals. Its just not good enough to bother switching to most of the time. Id say cliffside and underwater are the only 2 fractals that necro is very good at. Also before they revamped fractals necro was very good for jade maw and 70+ dredge fractal.

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

I’m not the type that needs to play the top classes, but I also don’t care to play the classes that people would rather not group with.

Guess I was spoiled playing a Mesmer/Guardian/Warrior first..

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Posted by: brittanymashe.7049

brittanymashe.7049

Actually, no they are not. I don’t get what the deal is with all these whiners complaining about how bad necros are. Necros are good if you know how to play them. You want a faceroll class? Go play a warrior. Otherwise, learn the kitten class and quit all your QQ.

Furia Nyx – necro
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Posted by: chunx.9521

chunx.9521

The mere fact that warriors can be considered as facerolling when compared to the necromancer shows that there is at least a substantial difference between the two.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

Regardless of how “bad” we might be compared to anyone else in an optimized group, rolling a Necro will not make your group incapable of finishing fractal content. It might take you a few minutes longer to finish a run, it might be a bit harder, but PvE is not innately difficult enough to demand the min/maxing of having the best class.

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Posted by: CryxTryx.9208

CryxTryx.9208

Actually, no they are not. I don’t get what the deal is with all these whiners complaining about how bad necros are. Necros are good if you know how to play them. You want a faceroll class? Go play a warrior. Otherwise, learn the kitten class and quit all your QQ.

Your hostility seems to be misplaced, in this thread anyway.

It has nothing to do with not knowing how to play the class. The game as a whole is not complicated. I am more then capable of playing any of the classes;

For most min/maxers our effectiveness with in a group is not determined by our skill cap, it is determined by the raw numbers a class is capable of putting out;

I don’t like going into a group knowing my effectivness is capped much lower then it otherwise would be a different character. What is worse is that if the general perception of the class to the public is low people will be less willing to group with me based on my class choice alone.

It doesn’t even matter that my skill with the class with make me just as effective as any average player, LFG doesn’t take the time to get to know you, they see a Necro and move on.

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Posted by: Vortok.6975

Vortok.6975

You want a challenge? Play necro!! Just don’t stick to condition, there’s a LOT of possible builds if you have a good vision. Power necro is as bad as people say, for now i play 30/0/25/15, read carefully all traits minor and major, you’ll find something fit for you.

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Posted by: Terok.7315

Terok.7315

“Bad” is a word that’s misleading, “mediocre” more accurately describes us. Necromancer can do all the faceroll content that other classes can, but other classes will do it better while offering more group support. As Bhawb has been pointing out for a while, the difference between classes having an easy and hard time is the difference between finishing a dungeon in 9 minutes instead of 8 minutes.

If PvE dungeons are your endgame, close your eyes and pick a class at random. Whatever you pick will be able to do the content.

Vile Necromancer||Defender of the Beastgate||Slayer of Moa’s

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Posted by: McWolfy.5924

McWolfy.5924

necros are gods in zerg fights. use staff+wells and collect lootbags. im not an experienced necro but i know the right build and a whole zerg see the diference when i do my job.

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Posted by: Falcon.8713

Falcon.8713

I just started a Necro, I thought I would use it for WvW (Which I am not all that interested in), and Fractals, which I quite enjoy.

I was under the impression that Necro’s were quite good for Fractals, but everything I am hearing about them almost makes me think I shouldn’t bother.

Necromancer is my main profession.. I do fractals 40+ and dungeons the whole time without people whining about my play style.. the fact is, on forum there are a bunch of whiners that make the necromancer look like an undercut profession.. We are a good profession, if you master a profession you can do everything with it without any problems.. but if you don’t want to master anything and just be a braindead keysmasher you should play warrior yeah..

My necromancer got upgraded to a scythe-wielding maniac.. I like it.

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Posted by: SpellOfIniquity.1780

SpellOfIniquity.1780

I’m relatively new to Necromancer and I’ve noticed that yes, the damage output seems to be fairly low. However, with practice, I feel the profession still has a lot of potential.
Also, I’m not sure what some people mean about bad heals. My current build is arranged so that just about everything I do steals health. I rarely to never die. I may not deal as much damage as I might if I were in full zerker, but I still put out some okay numbers and don’t burden my team by being downed all the time.
There are improvements that could be made to the profession in PvE, but in PvP or WvW they are extremely formidable. Place your Well Of Suffering wisely and fear your enemies when they get too close. If all goes well, your enemies are butter. It’s just too bad it’s not that way in PvE.

Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

My main is a necro but i know the class is sub par in pve. I play all classes in organised groups. Necro just doesnt have anything worth taking it for in pretty much any situation. The well support is good for cliffside where you dont need dps. Thats about it.

Necro dps is good but the lack of cleave makes it a pain for anything other than bosses.

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Posted by: Nijjion.2069

Nijjion.2069

Extreme challenge – Do FoTM 40+ with 5 condition necros! (or any 5 bleed spamming builds)

The biggest broken mechanic is still in the game and ANet have done 0 about it. I was going to say I wonder if they even care about bleeds/condition builds but they really don’t.

Zerker mesmers still delete our bleed stacks which is annoying with their duellist. Making our roughly 3k dps to 1-2k dps or even worse as 3 duellists can do 24 stacks of bleeds every 5 seconds.

(edited by Nijjion.2069)

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Posted by: Dalanor.5387

Dalanor.5387

Necro dps is good but the lack of cleave makes it a pain for anything other than bosses.

The only reason why we dont have any cleave is the massive amount of aoe we have i think. With power builds you have warhorn, wells and DS. As a condibuild you have 2 aoe skills with S/D, staff is an aoe fest and also Epidemic. Is this reason justifies the lack of cleave or not?

ps: wtb dps meter

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Posted by: Nijjion.2069

Nijjion.2069

@Dalanor… Doesn’t ele have more aoe than us and they have options for cleave with d/d (lightning).

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Posted by: spoj.9672

spoj.9672

Power necro has good burst aoe but its not enough in a lot of situations and especially in pug groups. And yeah condi aoe isnt good enough. If i want pure aoe id take an ele which also has cleave.

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Posted by: Umut.5471

Umut.5471

My main character is necro but i’ve moved to my engineer alt for a while. I’m a wvw raid player and sadly conditions started to suck against large groups. Necro doesn’t have real power based aoe weapons, and ds 4 gets always interrupted. My friend tried celestial necro for hybrid damage but vampiric skills scale so bad with healing power and you don’t really get the use of power based aoe damage because of lack of power based aoe weapons. So nearly half of your stats get wasted. Aoe weapons are condition heavy and condition sucks. Rolling a full power necro for crowded fights is not logical because of lack of aoe weapons. Staff scepter and oh dagger has the worst raw base damages you will find among classes. Current power weapons are melee and single targeted.(yes doesn’t even cleave enemies in front of you like a warrior despite being melee) Plus you don’t have enough stability to use these melee power weapons against a wvw hammer train. Also you can’t “really” support your party members in pve and dungeons. Ppl won’t want you in their pve parties and discriminate you.(even my guildie did that) As long as necro gets the same level of raw power based dps as warrior don’t roll one for a while. Current meta is “have a good power based dps or go.” I have a fully geared warrior too but I find its gameplay boring and monotone, If you are looking for a enjoyable and useful all around class try engineer. Ele is also good but a lot squishier. I’m using celestial, power weighted build on my engi and I have everything for every situation now. I’m no more dependent on conditions. I have tons of raw power based aoes. Only thing I love about necro is its survivability compared to other classes, if you are a condition build backliner you will be the last one to die anywhere. And condi necro is only good in spvp(even that got nerfed), and maybe for gang roaming in wvw. For different modes use better classes for a while. I hope arenanet adds new weapons and build options for necros to make them better and preferred classes in wvw raids and pve parties. They have to change people’s minds about necro with great dps buffs especially for pve.

(edited by Umut.5471)

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Posted by: pho.9412

pho.9412

I’d take a good necro into fract over a terri-anyclass any day.

necro is not my main, but I do play on my necro quite often to know it’s in and out. she was my first char after all, just not my favorite.

good necro

1. dont say you got no support, staff 2 and 4 regen+ condiremoval for your mellee guys. and if you know how to use focus 4 runing a power/invuln build. its good for the group too.
2. wells!!!! well of power, soooo good for cliff side where mobs put heavy condition on your party. well of corruption ( works wonder in dredge, those stupid moles always have boons)
3. blind is always welcome in anything that isn’t immune to blind.
4. epidemic. you don’t need to run condition to use this. those invuln from axe if you spread them then the pt will go way faster. aoe in general, you dont need to run epedemic for aoe but it is an easier source.
5. plague signet. I almost never use this because I am already runing a berzerker build. but I will put this on when we fight mai.

what not to do:

1. do not fear mobs without puting chill, cripple, immob if you put fear on mobs. sooooo annoying… when mobs run everywhere.
2. do not use staff auto attack only and say stuff like “oh, it peirce” that will prolly give you a boot. same thing with life blast.
3. fotm 38, with that instability that gives mobs boons if you chill, poison, or confuse them. yah… it’d be a good idea to not use those conditions. noone want to fight mobs with perma protection and regen.

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Posted by: Dalanor.5387

Dalanor.5387

1. You cant cleanse with staff 4 for months now and against one shoting mechanics, regen means nothing.
2. Null field does both wells job in the same time with lower CD.
3. And thief does it without a 50s CD well and a 180s CD elite in aoe.
4. Meanwhile you ramp up condies and press Epi, your warriors cleaved everything to death already. At least it happened with me all the time.
5. Well i should agree with you, but personnaly i dislike this signet. When the old Aetherblade dungeon was introduced i used this for extra removal, but when it randomly pulls a cripple and not a 10-20 stack bleed from your team mate, it sucks. So thanks, but no.

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Posted by: Bweaty.9187

Bweaty.9187

As people pointed out, in WvW your going to do really good in a ‘zerg’ with ‘tagging lots of aoe loot’

In PvE, or fractals. No matter how good you get/are, someone will do a better job than you with lots less effort. There will be things, that just hinder the group.

In sPvP, we have a ‘role’ or ‘job’. But ya’ll need a understanding team that will protect/peel people off you.

So it’s not a L2Play issue, it’s simply that necro’s got it worst in PvE. (Also vs CC & Groups in PvP)

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Posted by: nekretaal.6485

nekretaal.6485

I just wanted to add that while necromancer is good for tagging in WvW, this isn’t necessarily true in PvE.

Now if the zerg in PvE isnt that big, necromancers do great, but in the really big zergs, the situation is different, Conditions and AoE conditions or staff marks don’t do enough by themselves to tag a pvE mob, and wells and DS4 are on long cooldown. Consider GS/Staff Guardian better for PvE own world zergplay.

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Posted by: Afya.5842

Afya.5842

Try it anyway.

wvw:
necro is probably one of the top or at least mid-top zerg class.
roaming not as good because of mobility but viable

pve:
open world solo, every build is fine.
normal dungeon pug, do fine because team have few buffs and people running soldier gear do less damage than you.
fractal, not very good imo. In some fractal, it’s fine. Problem is we have no reflect, no invul, no vigor. Condition is too slow to do dmg when every one including pug in higher level run zerker. Zerker necro has no cleave that after the two wells you’re left with single target attack. Debuff conditions which should be good against bosses are reduced by defiant.

spvp:
it was one of the best but I believe other classes now has more counter. Tho I haven’t go pvp for a while.

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Posted by: DirtyBird.6093

DirtyBird.6093

Try it anyway.

wvw:
necro is probably one of the top or at least mid-top zerg class.
roaming not as good because of mobility but viable

pve:
open world solo, every build is fine.
normal dungeon pug, do fine because team have few buffs and people running soldier gear do less damage than you.
fractal, not very good imo. In some fractal, it’s fine. Problem is we have no reflect, no invul, no vigor. Condition is too slow to do dmg when every one including pug in higher level run zerker. Zerker necro has no cleave that after the two wells you’re left with single target attack. Debuff conditions which should be good against bosses are reduced by defiant.

spvp:
it was one of the best but I believe other classes now has more counter. Tho I haven’t go pvp for a while.

Agreed on most of these points,

WvW – Necro still is one of the best classes in WvW hands down – although the glaring and frustratiing lack of stability can make you rage.

PvE – who cares, all builds typically work. PvE content is not a challenge for the most part in this game

PvP – Went from being on the upper tier of classes to play, to near the bottom over the last 2 patch changes. Dhuumfire/Terror nerf i thought brought us in line with other classes, making us pretty strong, but not nearly as roflstomp as before with dhuumfire and terror damage. But now… ugh. Just so many better options to bring to the fight imo. Its too bad really. condi necro was super fun to play. Feels really diluted now.

-Blackgate-
[GoF] Smiks – Guardian/Necro
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Posted by: borrok.9267

borrok.9267

Try it anyway.

wvw:
necro is probably one of the top or at least mid-top zerg class.
roaming not as good because of mobility but viable

pve:
open world solo, every build is fine.
normal dungeon pug, do fine because team have few buffs and people running soldier gear do less damage than you.
fractal, not very good imo. In some fractal, it’s fine. Problem is we have no reflect, no invul, no vigor. Condition is too slow to do dmg when every one including pug in higher level run zerker. Zerker necro has no cleave that after the two wells you’re left with single target attack. Debuff conditions which should be good against bosses are reduced by defiant.

spvp:
it was one of the best but I believe other classes now has more counter. Tho I haven’t go pvp for a while.

Agreed on most of these points,

WvW – Necro still is one of the best classes in WvW hands down – although the glaring and frustratiing lack of stability can make you rage.

PvE – who cares, all builds typically work. PvE content is not a challenge for the most part in this game

PvP – Went from being on the upper tier of classes to play, to near the bottom over the last 2 patch changes. Dhuumfire/Terror nerf i thought brought us in line with other classes, making us pretty strong, but not nearly as roflstomp as before with dhuumfire and terror damage. But now… ugh. Just so many better options to bring to the fight imo. Its too bad really. condi necro was super fun to play. Feels really diluted now.

Not entirely true without context. Necros are incredibly useful in zergs especially wellmancers with like 16 seconds of protection on a group and marks and plague blind… But low mobility and lack of stability puts most necros at a disadvantage elsewhere. Certain areas necros are awesome at, but they fall flat in other areas where most classes don’t.

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Posted by: Bhawb.7408

Bhawb.7408

I’d like to point out that while everyone QQs about Necros in sPvP, half of the competitive teams in high tier tournaments… still use Necros.

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Posted by: Anchoku.8142

Anchoku.8142

Keep in mind that conditions are the Necromancer’s CC. No other profession is so reliant on conditions as a form of damage avoidance. Necro will play a bit differently because of that. Condi-CC, a higher health pool, minions, and Death Shroud are there to make up for poor combat mobility and lower dps. However, for a profession so reliant upon conditions, especially non or low-damaging ones, players really need to use everything they can to mitigate incoming damage and restore lost health. There is no escape.