Guild Wars 2

CastIron.7364:

I roam against zerker warriors and guards, condi thieves, condi mesmers, power engis and power/condi rangers and while I have a hard time against rangers (ugh Longbows) and Mesmers and Engis after the last patch (luckily grenadier is disabled), guards, warrs and thieves are rather easily scared.

this, is the problem highlighted in this thread.
it isn’t that necros can’t solo roam in WvW.
we can, and we excel at it.

but there are some builds (kiting builds) by some classes that puts us at a big disadvantage from the start.
it is an inherent weakness in the necro that can’t be overcomed by changing builds because there are no such options in our builds.
against a kiter of equal skill, we start at a 30-70 disadvantage regardless of the build we use.
This is a problem because no other classes face this problem. they all have options to come up with a build to fight at 50-50 against kiters or even 70-30.

why is necro the only one that doesn’t have this option?

EremiteAngel.9765:

but there are some builds (kiting builds) by some classes that puts us at a big disadvantage from the start.

it is an inherent weakness in the necro that can’t be overcomed by changing builds because there are no such options in our builds.
against a kiter of equal skill, we start at a 30-70 disadvantage regardless of the build we use.
This is a problem because no other classes face this problem. they all have options to come up with a build to fight at 50-50 against kiters or even 70-30.

why is necro the only one that doesn’t have this option?

Have you asked engis about their condi clear? Or mesmers about their ability to fight against kiters?

For me it’s all a matter of adapting. Having a known weakness is fun, it makes it that much sweeter if you can overcome it. If you want a build that can deal with every type of roamer, then I agree with you: Such a build does not exist for the necro, but this is one of the factors that make things fun for me.

And I don’t know any class besides thief that can reliably close gaps against kiting rangers anyway.

Akrasia.5469:

After reading all this I think necros should have a stealth skill. It’s thematic, Dark scary monster appears out of no where. How many movie monsters (Jason, Freddie etc) just vanished when the victim looks back. Vampires vanish in a puff of smoke or swarm of bats. Our escape and possible answer to mobile characters should be some kind of stealth and better pulls. Our teleport and pulls would work better (even slow as they are) if our target didn’t know which direction they were coming from.
Agree? Disagree? Or just know it may never happen.

How about a Master trait called Ghost Form where the necro seems to dissolve into a pool of blood (leaving behind a cool graphic) when they use their heal skill granting them stealth and mist form for 3 seconds.
OR an elite skill that does the same thing for a 5 second duration but the necro can’t attack in that form.

Oh no. I’d like to see the necro get some roaming based skills too. But not more stealth. It’s a terrible mechanic!

Brighteluden.2974:

I’ve always solo roamed on my necro and I’ve never had any issues killing off most classes 1v1, so you’re just doing it wrong. I believe the only time I’ve had issues are with warrior who’s running GS/Sword and board With zerker stance and rampage amongst and is able to disengage enough times to drain my life force and then return back to finish me off. I’ve had a few issues with mesmers but not much recently. I’am running a terrormancer with perplexity runes though, so again I feel I have the upper hand in most fights as it is.

you havent encountered a half decent lb zerk ranger than.

Eremite as a long time necro, unfortunately i can’t agree with the problems you put up here. Necro has only 3 problems; There isn’t much defense if you run a high offensive build. Unlike most classes who can just bail when they take too much damage, we can’t. The second is dealing with stealth heavy classes and the third is dealing with ambushes.

Kiting builds used to be a problem till they changed the trait system and buffed siphons. Now i run just about all the blind skills we have minus boon conversion so all the builds you mentioned aren’t much an issue unless I have no shroud and i missed all my life force skills or the player is somehow reading my mind.

As for ranger, i find dark path and running behind obstacles helps a lot there. A LB ranger typically has 3 options to mantain distance, point blank, immobilize and cripple, this is where Death Magic and FTG helps a lot. Negate the point blank remove the conditions, tank the rapid fire and pop dark path.

I find the protection after shroud, stability on shroud and cleanse on shroud is a lot more useful to me in a normal match than single target burst. Counter attacking just seems to play out better than always risking taking huge damage from someone else to burst one target when you cant retreat afterwards.

The best reason for the DM line is the cleanse, honestly without Shrouded removal I dont know how I would be able to handle the constant torment from mesmers, really broken burns and movement stopping conditions and still have enough hp to handle more attacks since of course i can’t leave.

CastIron.7364:

If you want a build that can deal with every type of roamer, then I agree with you: Such a build does not exist for the necro

Of course there are builds like this.
There’s definitely a difference in how easily necros can deal with other classes and builds. But the necro being at a clear disadvantage? No, not from my experience.

EremiteAngel.9765:

as of now, 2 equally skilled players, kiter vs necro, kiter has a 70-30 advantage at least.
and we got no builds currently on the necro to even make it 50-50. let alone a build that allows us to 70-30 a kiter.

The only class that can out-kite our staff is the ranger. No other class has a range advantage over us.
So, do rangers have an initial advantage over us? Yes, but once they blow their ranged burst and knock back they can’t really prevent necros from staying at range, and once we close the gap those glass rangers usually die from a mild sneeze.

CastIron.7364:

Alright, I’d like to see some builds if everyone is saying necros can’t solo roam. Solo roaming is about 70% of my playtime nowadays and I feel stronger than ever with the last patch. Before I could barely solo a fully upgraded camp, while now Blood Magic is helping me sustain in shroud.

From my experience a power spec with wells is good to flip camps, while a build with spectral skills is easily the most sustain we can get. I roam against zerker warriors and guards, condi thieves, condi mesmers, power engis and power/condi rangers and while I have a hard time against rangers (ugh Longbows) and Mesmers and Engis after the last patch (luckily grenadier is disabled), guards, warrs and thieves are rather easily scared.

One thing to note tho is that I don’t use any of the necro elites. I either use warband support (charr racial) or Mistfire Wolf for the burning and chill.

You just said longbow ranger, which is a kiter. That’s what this thread is about

CastIron.7364:

EremiteAngel.9765:

but there are some builds (kiting builds) by some classes that puts us at a big disadvantage from the start.

it is an inherent weakness in the necro that can’t be overcomed by changing builds because there are no such options in our builds.
against a kiter of equal skill, we start at a 30-70 disadvantage regardless of the build we use.
This is a problem because no other classes face this problem. they all have options to come up with a build to fight at 50-50 against kiters or even 70-30.

why is necro the only one that doesn’t have this option?

Have you asked engis about their condi clear? Or mesmers about their ability to fight against kiters?

For me it’s all a matter of adapting. Having a known weakness is fun, it makes it that much sweeter if you can overcome it. If you want a build that can deal with every type of roamer, then I agree with you: Such a build does not exist for the necro, but this is one of the factors that make things fun for me.

And I don’t know any class besides thief that can reliably close gaps against kiting rangers anyway.

Engis condi clear isn’t that awful, plus their healing and regen is through the roof. Blocks and mobility, not to mention stealth, they take way less punishment in fights. I main mesmer and I welcome kiter with open arms. We have reflects stealth and are a better kiting class than most any other for the most part

Ragion.2831:

As for ranger, i find dark path and running behind obstacles helps a lot there. A LB ranger typically has 3 options to mantain distance, point blank, immobilize and cripple, this is where Death Magic and FTG helps a lot. Negate the point blank remove the conditions, tank the rapid fire and pop dark path.

flow.6043:

The only class that can out-kite our staff is the ranger. No other class has a range advantage over us.
So, do rangers have an initial advantage over us? Yes, but once they blow their ranged burst and knock back they can’t really prevent necros from staying at range, and once we close the gap those glass rangers usually die from a mild sneeze.

Those of you who think rangers only kite with point blank shot (and/or some other soft cc), you have never fought a good kiting ranger then.

Video:

just look at this video and what he is doing to kite me. In my 1 year of roaming, I have fought 4 rangers who kited similar to him (yes that is how few decent roaming kiting rangers are) and they are all nightmares to fight. even in my win above, it was really a big part of luck on my side.

edit: dark path is also a slow and telegraphed skill that is easy to dodge, chaining it with fear will improve its connection but a ranger could have traited transfer of fear to pet, or just stun break and dodge.

also, yes we have a 1200 range staff. but it is a utility weapon. compare our damage while on a staff to a ranger’s LB. they will just outdamage and shred us to pieces.

EremiteAngel.9765:

just look at this video and what he is doing to kite me. In my 1 year of roaming, I have fought 4 rangers who kited similar to him (yes that is how few decent roaming kiting rangers are) and they are all nightmares to fight. even in my win above, it was really a big part of luck on my side.

I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes, but that ranger doesn’t look very dangerous to me. He wasn’t really kiting a lot, he stayed within your attack range most of the time.
Also, you had the upper hand from the start, and there were a lot of opportunities to finish the fight earlier.

flow.6043:

EremiteAngel.9765:

just look at this video and what he is doing to kite me. In my 1 year of roaming, I have fought 4 rangers who kited similar to him (yes that is how few decent roaming kiting rangers are) and they are all nightmares to fight. even in my win above, it was really a big part of luck on my side.

I don’t want to step on anyone’s toes, but that ranger doesn’t look very dangerous to me. He wasn’t really kiting a lot, he stayed within your attack range most of the time.
Also, you had the upper hand from the start, and there were a lot of opportunities to finish the fight earlier.

ouch okay looks like it really is my skills that are not good enough hahaha.
since there are necros who can fight toe to toe with LB kiting rangers then I guess this thread is pointless.

I think necros have hardcounters classes, but just as much others classes has it as well.
Lb rangers are so easy, yes there are good ones around but still easy from my pov.

Anyways, necro needs LUV! <3

gavyne.6847:

Necros are one class that you’ll run to and kill without a thought. It’s funny because when in WvW, I see a necro, I go for it. Sometimes it takes one to know one. I think we all know our weaknesses and what makes us tick. Lack of escapes is still the #1 reason why people always gun for the necros, and this continues to plague us.

Another reason I like to gun for the necros is because they can be easily interrupted. I know our heals are slow, if you’re a melee and you can’t interrupt me when attempting to CC, then it’s a l2p issue. I also know necros don’t get invulnerabilities, which surprisingly so many other classes have.

If we use our elite abilities, unlike other classes that have strong elites, ours can be ignored…literally. If you see a plague, run out of range, we have no swiftness in plagueform and no way to close gaps, gg mobility. If you see a lich, put up wall of reflection, or again, run away or use los. Or better yet, just side strafe left & right and watch our highest damage attack miss.

I wouldn’t pick a necro to solo roam in WvW, seriously. But I continue to play my necro because I’m needed in WvW group/zerg meta.

+1, Could not agree more. I am not one of the 1% here and the scariest time for me as a well bomber/support necro is when I have to make my way to the zerg. It seems I always find that one ranger, mesmer or thief that has nothing better to do that make me run back from spawn. Lately I just sit in spawn and wait for a group heading to the tag.

I solo roam perfectly with my necro and steamroll thieves,warriors and medi guards…and some mesmers too(if I manage to get an opening on them).I really steamroll them.Only problem is rangers and mesmers,which playing smartly helps,instead of rushing them you use the line of sight to your advantage.+spectral grasp really helps.

Necros are maybe not mobile,but they have high sustain which you need to know how to use this sustain smartly. and im not even talking about MM necros or condi ones lol

I am not a necro, nor have I ever played one. But I find the discussion interesting. One thing I noticed is that many necros are claiming they’re able to handle almost anything that comes at them while roaming. However, I’m seeing a distinct lack of video proof. It doesn’t need to be your own video, but having some solid evidence to back up your claims would be nice, even if only for instructional purposes.

And if for some reason you can’t provide video evidence, at least lay out your general build and strategy for your playstyle while roaming.

Don’t just say you can do something which is unlikely, show us how you’re doing it and explain how you’re doing it. Fight the QQ by educating other necros.

Eliteseraph.4970:

I am not a necro, nor have I ever played one. But I find the discussion interesting. One thing I noticed is that many necros are claiming they’re able to handle almost anything that comes at them while roaming. However, I’m seeing a distinct lack of video proof. It doesn’t need to be your own video, but having some solid evidence to back up your claims would be nice, even if only for instructional purposes.

And if for some reason you can’t provide video evidence, at least lay out your general build and strategy for your playstyle while roaming.

Don’t just say you can do something which is unlikely, show us how you’re doing it and explain how you’re doing it. Fight the QQ by educating other necros.

That is an interesting comment. Like many others necros said, i don’t have major problems against those classes. I have a couple videos showing my gameplay but i suck at “teaching”. I am even making a build video but i don’t know if it will be good or not, like i said, i suck at “teaching”.

Here have some “proofs”: http://www.youtube.com/donee

Someone asked for roaming builds, and I mentioned earlier that I beat almost anyone I meet. So here it is http://tinyurl.com/p22q9yw (runes and sigils are up to you)

This is going to sound exceptionally kitteny, but I don’t mean to be, but here it is. If you’ve got suggestions for the build, IDC at all. If you don’t think it’ll work, IDC at all. It works for me and I beat people. Use it or don’t, alter it to your hearts content and wishes and best of luck

Dietzen.6127:

Someone asked for roaming builds, and I mentioned earlier that I beat almost anyone I meet. So here it is http://tinyurl.com/nnk8bdv

This is going to sound exceptionally kitteny, but I don’t mean to be, but here it is. If you’ve got suggestions for the build, IDC at all. If you don’t think it’ll work, IDC at all. It works for me and I beat people. Use it or don’t, alter it to your hearts content and wishes and best of luck

This is a strange build for sure, but might work.
I wish we could stomp people in norn transformation skills, i’d reroll in no time!

For people who asks for roaming builds like our friend above was saying, i have my own to share with video/guide and showcase.

Check that out if interested:

Lynnie.7213:

Dietzen.6127:

Someone asked for roaming builds, and I mentioned earlier that I beat almost anyone I meet. So here it is http://tinyurl.com/nnk8bdv

This is going to sound exceptionally kitteny, but I don’t mean to be, but here it is. If you’ve got suggestions for the build, IDC at all. If you don’t think it’ll work, IDC at all. It works for me and I beat people. Use it or don’t, alter it to your hearts content and wishes and best of luck

This is a strange build for sure, but might work.
I wish we could stomp people in norn transformation skills, i’d reroll in no time!

Might It DOES work, else I wouldn’t post it ^^

Dietzen.6127:

Lynnie.7213:

Dietzen.6127:

Someone asked for roaming builds, and I mentioned earlier that I beat almost anyone I meet. So here it is http://tinyurl.com/nnk8bdv

This is going to sound exceptionally kitteny, but I don’t mean to be, but here it is. If you’ve got suggestions for the build, IDC at all. If you don’t think it’ll work, IDC at all. It works for me and I beat people. Use it or don’t, alter it to your hearts content and wishes and best of luck

This is a strange build for sure, but might work.
I wish we could stomp people in norn transformation skills, i’d reroll in no time!

Might It DOES work, else I wouldn’t post it ^^

Yeah, but you gotta admit is a lil outside the box! hehe
Good job, mate.

Lynnie.7213:

Dietzen.6127:

Lynnie.7213:

Dietzen.6127:

Someone asked for roaming builds, and I mentioned earlier that I beat almost anyone I meet. So here it is http://tinyurl.com/nnk8bdv

This is going to sound exceptionally kitteny, but I don’t mean to be, but here it is. If you’ve got suggestions for the build, IDC at all. If you don’t think it’ll work, IDC at all. It works for me and I beat people. Use it or don’t, alter it to your hearts content and wishes and best of luck

This is a strange build for sure, but might work.
I wish we could stomp people in norn transformation skills, i’d reroll in no time!

Might It DOES work, else I wouldn’t post it ^^

Yeah, but you gotta admit is a lil outside the box! hehe
Good job, mate.

I don’t know, is it? It’s just a hybrid build that packs a punch.
Extra blinds, and 10k+ heal every 30 seconds. Both condi dmg and DD is good, sorta adds up

Dietzen.6127:

Someone asked for roaming builds, and I mentioned earlier that I beat almost anyone I meet. So here it is http://tinyurl.com/p22q9yw (runes and sigils are up to you)

This is going to sound exceptionally kitteny, but I don’t mean to be, but here it is. If you’ve got suggestions for the build, IDC at all. If you don’t think it’ll work, IDC at all. It works for me and I beat people. Use it or don’t, alter it to your hearts content and wishes and best of luck

I can think of one enemy that will potentially break you.
A hammer warrior with Rampage.
You have only 1 stun break, and an elite that might save you if you managed to morph and invis in time. Other than that, all the stuns from the warrior will break your build.

EremiteAngel.9765:

Dietzen.6127:

Someone asked for roaming builds, and I mentioned earlier that I beat almost anyone I meet. So here it is http://tinyurl.com/p22q9yw (runes and sigils are up to you)

This is going to sound exceptionally kitteny, but I don’t mean to be, but here it is. If you’ve got suggestions for the build, IDC at all. If you don’t think it’ll work, IDC at all. It works for me and I beat people. Use it or don’t, alter it to your hearts content and wishes and best of luck

I can think of one enemy that will potentially break you.
A hammer warrior with Rampage.
You have only 1 stun break, and an elite that might save you if you managed to morph and invis in time. Other than that, all the stuns from the warrior will break your build.

Bwahahahahaha. Yea no :p hasn’t happened yet anyways

Rampage breaks down most things, only counters are Plague and anything mobile enough to escape
i get why the defender runes though, it will either block the incoming interrupt on consume conditions and heal you a bit, or if an attack hits first that breaks the aegis and then the interrupt comes you still get some heal. And the mischief sigils to reduce the need for evades. Cool build, playing proactively:D

Eremite i came across that type of ranger about 2 days ago and this ranger was 1 level away from Dragon, needless to say it was no contest till we got to sky hammer where it was just me chasing and the ranger constantly retreating in stealth. The only threatening thing about LB rangers is the stealth, which is not a unique problem. We have no counter play for it, why none of our skills reveal is beyond me then Anet limits our range, our mobility then tells us to go fight classes than can just keep resetting. What i would give for 5 mins with one of these devs. Anyway i digress.

My point is if you are having problems with certain classes or builds then you are most likely making builds that ignore the lack of mobility. I had this same discussion with a skilled necro friend of mine recently. The zerker meta needs to stop, necros wandering around trying to spit out all the damage in Tyria is what is causing a lot of the problems we are seeing. We have established Anet doesnt know how to balance the class to compensate for the lack of mobility so we have to do it ourselves by focusing on the good stuff Anet has recently buffed or thankfully left alone, counter attacks and sustain.

Using little to no defensive traits while having low toughness and not enough cleanses means if your burst is canceled you are screwed, either by your target or by someone else, if your heal is canceled, same thing. Considering most other classes have negates and stuns and can disappear into thin air, being left wide open will happen a lot. So what can you do when that happens? absolutely nothing if any hit can send you halfway to respawn.