Guild Wars 2

Post patch, I just glance through all the other professions’ forum threads and guess what? they have little to no hate there.

No one is crying and screaming and denouncing ANET for the changes.
Some even thank and applaud the changes.

But look at our Necro forum.
You see so much hate posts complaining about this and complaining about that.

I think we need to show better appreciation and manners.

If a change hits your skill negatively, then don’t use that skill.
if it affects your build negatively, then change your build.

a willow tree bends with the wind
a straight tree cracks under pressure

be that willow tree

So dont criticise a class that has been in a very poor state since release? Im sorry that doesnt sit well with me. There is long term bitterness in this subforum for a reason.

There is nothing to appreciate at this point. Maybe that will change with the specialisation.

for example, if the stability stack duration turns out to last longer now and as a solo roaming condi necro, I dont have enough fears to remove the stacks anyway which can easily range from 3-10 stacks, which means I have to kite and stay alive longer without my fear having any effects to help me, then I just change my build.

Don’t need to slam ANET and ask them to change things back or make it so that your current build gets a buff.

I’ve only recently rejoined the game but… it seems to me that people are complaining because they had so little to lose… and they were still diminished.

Take $50 from a professional lawyer and he’ll be annoyed.

Take $50 from a mother who’s working 3 jobs to keep a roof over her families head and you might have cost them dinner for 3 nights.

The last one will have a lot more to complain about.

So we should just accept every balance decision they make as correct and give no criticism?

Your mother was a hamster! And your father smelled of elderberries.

Yeah let me just say for the record that Necromancer is, hands down, my favorite profession despite the flaws. Any future nerfs or bugs that may plague us will not invalidate my love.

However… That also means my frustration will be all the more intense when a problem arises. I care deeply for Necromancer thus my anger is equally so.

I’ve noticed as well that the other subforums are not filled with complaints but the other professions don’t suffer the same crap that we do. I won’t bash ANet because I understand that balancing can be a difficult job but after 2 years… It would be nice if they had a few Necro experts on the team to give them some pointers instead of just blindly rifling through our skills and changing sh_t without thinking about the repercussions.

I’m happy that they’ve addressed some of the issues that they have with this patch but the list of skills that had apparently been bugged and have just now been fixed is just… Wow… 16? Thanks… I guess.

I think you mistake why people in this particular forum are upset. I am working hard to work around the changes.

The reason why there is more debate in this forum than any other, is because the changes really hit Necro’s hard. The conversion of FITG made the skill useless. This has to be known.

Stability is already a sticking point, and how to negotiate these changes will be a point of contention for many people that play necro.

I will say that I think that Necro is one of those classes that draws in some of the most loyal followers as we try to make this build viable no matter the situation. Though it should be noted that the Revenants similarities and abilities are alluring..

Stability on dodge.. aaah so good.

I don’t pvp or gvg or wvw zerg much so I cant say for those areas.

what i do 99% of the time with my necro is wvw solo roam.
and I must say necro is not weak at all.

I win 99% of the time against builds that I have an advantage against, like against every other condi build, I got a strong advantage even when I played badly. like against every boon stacking build like dd ele if I switch to corrupt boon in time.

Even against professions that I generally am on even ground or even suffer against, it is not a one-sided fight, but a 50-50 fight against like thief and mesmers and guardians.

The only profession/build I really suffer against is a longbow zerker ranger. Almost always a one sided win for the ranger if he knows how to kite well.

So actually I am very happy where necros are right now.

We Are Strong.

And Nothing Stands In Our Way.

Doesn’t Anet want feedback? If I made a video, and no one said anything (even had criticism) about it, I’d be left in the dark with little idea on how I did, what I should change etc.

I agree that we could be more polite, but seriously, 0,5 sec cast time reduc is increase of mobility? That kinda stuff makes people…. bitter…

Your individual experiences do not represent the entire classes situation. :P

spoj.9672:

There is nothing to appreciate at this point. Maybe that will change with the specialisation.

Necro profession should be fixed before specialization and HoT.

Disclaimer: I play necro in the few areas where necros are not shunned, WvW, EotM, and solo PvE

Well they cant be shunned in solo PvE because theres noone to shun you. But i shun my own necro in solo PvE when i consider what i can do with other classes. x)

Necros are only decent in zergs. Thats really great! /s

And i agree it should be fixed before HoT. But weve been making suggestions since release and nothing has been done. It looks unlikely that the base class will ever be any good at anything other than zerging in WvW.

I couldn’t believe my eyes too when I saw the mobility better with lower cast time.
Had a really good laugh.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I don’t pvp or gvg or wvw zerg much so I cant say for those areas.

what i do 99% of the time with my necro is wvw solo roam.
and I must say necro is not weak at all.

I win 99% of the time against builds that I have an advantage against, like against every other condi build, I got a strong advantage even when I played badly. like against every boon stacking build like dd ele if I switch to corrupt boon in time.

Even against professions that I generally am on even ground or even suffer against, it is not a one-sided fight, but a 50-50 fight against like thief and mesmers and guardians.

The only profession/build I really suffer against is a longbow zerker ranger. Almost always a one sided win for the ranger if he knows how to kite well.

So actually I am very happy where necros are right now.

We Are Strong.

And Nothing Stands In Our Way.

You are correct! In WvW, the necro is still very good and can be very useful. Especially with their boon corrupting wells and abilities. That is the problem though.

I know people getting kicked out of Dungeon parties, I know teams refusing to put necro on their PvP team. You might say it is just some bad eggs, but it is actually becoming very common, take the way ranger used to be treated.

I really admire your encouragement and I do think that necro has very strong points, but it also needs work.

and I thanked ANET for making my day for making me laugh.

The poor manners of Nacrocancers are earned. And funnily enough, as a community, we get along well maybe even as a result of our poor state. Other classes are much much worse. I feel Engineer has the most rude and snide people of just about any class. Them or thieves, not sure which.

Necromancer frustrations and rudeness is warrented in that at this point it’s basically just customer complaints and frustrations. People think of MMOs as a community, but it’s a product too. Necromancers are poorly designed and very frequently overlooked because they aren’t a highly popular class. Literally we see game breaking bugs (Like Flesh if the Master bug or AI that does absolutely nothing) and it is t handled for months to YEARS. Other classes have less shattering bugs and they even get Hotfix bugs. The only time they have ever made quick Hotfix action for necromancer was to nerf Dhuumfire.

Get burned enough times, you start to become bitter… And at the very least, it fits the Necromancer style…

They gutted an already lackluster trait and nerfed the effects of boon strip on elites.
Lich got easier to CC. So now you can CC or burst it or corrupt or disengage or right/left strafe it. So many possibilities to outdo one elite.

Classes that already had positional advantages through teleports now have even easier access to positional advantages.

He is right. Be grateful to the balancing overlords….

Nec is not gutted but why should we be grateful for this?

So emerite, here’s how this works. Necro is not in a strong spot overall. You can win a lot of your fights because you’re probably a good player – and – necro is stronger in WvW where there are more bleeds on attacks and life force is super easy to come by. Necro is quite strong in those 1v1s. In pvp, necro doesn’t have the luxury of free life force or those extra bleeds, or the option to kite anywhere without consequence since its conquest.

Then there is PVE, where necro is unwanted.

So any patch that come out that outline the devs disconnections with the class (like 16 traits not working in downed state) or that bring nerfs ( like to foot in the grave, or devaluing boon stripping) is going to be received poorly. And it’s not wrong of any of us to have that reaction, especially if you’ve seen some of the ways necro has gone through changes (dhuumfire, 1/3 downed health, the recent changes to pre pvp match life force gain, taking years to interact with anything in DS, nerfing weapon swaps in DS, nerfing DS cooldown when you run out of DS, etc.).

Personally I’m waiting to see if the specialization brings positive changes, but I’ve been around long enough to see why a necro main would be unhappy with a patch like this.

Have any of you actually been pvping since the patch…. power necro stronger than ever.

Take the teleport changes.

It takes 10s for a necromancer to get from midpoint to stillness. It takes less than 3 for an elementalist Mesmer or theif. Discussion from people playing demos and descriptions of patch notes suggested that cheap wall port were finally getting fixed.

Instead, the UI now clearly indicates whether your cheap wall port will land or nt, making them easier than ever to land. Teleports are stronger than ever, necromancers are less mobile than ever and the only teleport that gets borked is flesh Wurm.

How is neerfing the weakest class supposed to solve anything?

All of these changes work against Necomancer. From ping ponging liches, to reapplied stability that makes necromancer boon strip a joke….

Meanwhile all of the suggestions we’ve been making, anet seems to be listening and giving to the revenant.

I can still teleport with flesh wurm….. just doesn’t work exactly the same.

We complain because we care about the profession. Most of us limit the negativity and offer constructive criticism.

The Necromancer subforum has long been one of the most helpful, constructive, and non-toxic subforums there is. There are constant posts on changes that could be made to help the profession, people are always happy to help each other, and we don’t delude ourselves into thinking that Necromancer is god tier when it isn’t. We’ve managed to figure out bugs months before ANet has, we’ve tested interactions that ANet still doesn’t appear to know about, and all in all we get along well as a community.

So let’s not pretend like our extremely valid and warranted complaining is anything but our attempts to beg ANet to stop making bad changes. Let’s get one thing straight about this recent patch: the biggest thing that we have to praise anet for is fixing SIXTEEN bugs that have, to our best knowledge, existed at least for 4 months or so. People have made posts about how hilarious downed state is now, we’ve talked about the good and bad of the blink and stability changes, we’ve praised ANet where they deserve it but we’re not going to sit around acting like they are faultless.

The fact is the Necromancer community is one of the most realistic communities. Any time you see us suggest buffs there is always consideration of compensation to make sure they aren’t too strong. Any time we get buffed or nerfed you have people analyzing it and making helpful suggestions when needed. We’re pretty fair, although definitely a bit cynical (for kitten good reason).

But we’re not going to collectively shove our heads up our kitten and pretend like every change is some holy blessing from our saviors above.

Though I play both a ranger and a necromancer the necromancer community has ALWAYS been by far the BEST community for a class I have seen in ANY game to date.

Hell this community and the sheer desire to help the class thats evident in nearly every single post is one of the only reasons I still have hope that maybe MAYBE my necromancer might be good for more than dropping a well.

Dont act like any complaints made by necromancers arn’t 100% justified. Not after the constant disappointment after disappointment.

As for necromancer forums behavior. Let me remind you one of the biggest advocates of the dhuumfire nerf were the necromancers themselves.

NeXeD.3042:

Have any of you actually been pvping since the patch…. power necro stronger than ever.

And if you meet any one even slightly less competent than the necro, the necromancer will lose 95% of the fights in PvP still, unless you have a peeler and if you do then you’re losing because 2 on 1 makes the capping and fighting easier other places.

So it’s strong and yet still extremely kitten compared to all other 7 professions.

Try and play against non kittens and you’ll see how much necromancers lack

Azzer.8137:

NeXeD.3042:

Have any of you actually been pvping since the patch…. power necro stronger than ever.

And if you meet any one even slightly less competent than the necro, the necromancer will lose 95% of the fights in PvP still, unless you have a peeler and if you do then you’re losing because 2 on 1 makes the capping and fighting easier other places.

So it’s strong and yet still extremely kitten compared to all other 7 professions.

Try and play against non kittens and you’ll see how much necromancers lack

I mean given their tools, they just don’t have the ability to function as high as any of the zerkers. “Strong” in the sense that yes, with a squishy amulet they can hit hard, sure… But they have TERRIBLE mobility, which is huge for nor only berserker players but the idea of roaming in general. That, and then they also don’t have the defenses other zerkers get that allow them to function properly. And their defense mechanism is tied to their offense which raises all other issues.

-Squishy
-Easily Locked down
-No mobility
-Team dependent
-Hyper-sensitive placement dependencies for 600 range dealing damage and enough awareness to not get crushed.

They just simply aren’t made to be as useful as other berserkers/roamers, it’s really as simple as that… High end gaming especially isn’t about who can hit harder, its about utility and a vast amount of other variables that necromancer just don’t have. :/

I’m not entirely sure how to respond to this…….The people on this forum are generally very kind, and there is incredibly less QQ here than on the thief forum for instance. Necro has simply gotten screwed over numerous countless times, so people have a right to be a little upset. Blatantly saying that people here “Need better manners” is simply offensive and makes you look like a fool.

EremiteAngel.9765:

No one is crying and screaming and denouncing ANET for the changes.
Some even thank and applaud the changes.

This is simply false. I have seen numerous other threads throughout the forums complaining about the changes. Those who applaud the changes do so simply because it helped their class. Thieves for instance are happy with the SB change since they no longer waste initiative on an invalid SB 5. I have yet to see one single thread that is overjoyed about a nerf to their class.

Azzer.8137:

NeXeD.3042:

Have any of you actually been pvping since the patch…. power necro stronger than ever.

And if you meet any one even slightly less competent than the necro, the necromancer will lose 95% of the fights in PvP still, unless you have a peeler and if you do then you’re losing because 2 on 1 makes the capping and fighting easier other places.

So it’s strong and yet still extremely kitten compared to all other 7 professions.

Try and play against non kittens and you’ll see how much necromancers lack

I do play against non kittens and I do quite well as a power necro.

I don’t need a peeler for one on ones….. and my mobility is fine with pack runes and warhorn. I don’t want to be a kitten…. but I think it’s a l2p issue. Power necro is in an ok spot right now, especially now with all the downed trait stuff, if someone does knock us down I’m basically a lich on the ground lol.

<3 necro subforum

Also, got angry PM’s from teefs that I downed and killed while in downed state

Holl.3109:

<3 necro subforum

Also, got angry PM’s from teefs that I downed and killed while in downed state

Which is funny since theives with blind and stealth are actually the best at stomping us now if they are competent.

NeXeD.3042:

Holl.3109:

<3 necro subforum

Also, got angry PM’s from teefs that I downed and killed while in downed state

Which is funny since theives with blind and stealth are actually the best at stomping us now if they are competent.

He just put down the blind field, but I still got some hits through, which procced fire/air/Spinal shivers

Downed 1 skill hits more than 3 times per second, so there is no reasonable way to blind it.

Holl.3109:

NeXeD.3042:

Holl.3109:

<3 necro subforum

Also, got angry PM’s from teefs that I downed and killed while in downed state

Which is funny since theives with blind and stealth are actually the best at stomping us now if they are competent.

He just put down the blind field, but I still got some hits through, which procced fire/air/Spinal shivers

I know so many people are kittening about necro sustain And whatnot…. these downstate buffs where a gigantic sustain buff… it was at the point in games yesterday where I was just running around with like 10 hp getting dropped and rallying people were avoiding the crap out of my downed body.

Bhawb.7408:

Downed 1 skill hits more than 3 times per second, so there is no reasonable way to blind it.

Smoke field can still block the fear sometimes depending on timing of the ticks in relation to when you start casting your fear. Kinda janky and you can usually get it off but still, Pistol 5 can sometimes prevent a fear.

You don’t need to fear if you are a zerker power necro, in many cases. Each tick of your 1 skill traited will hit for 700 (crit) or 350, so up to 2100 damage in a second, plus air/fire sigil procs, and chill of death proc. Trying to fear the thief is unnecessary unless Chill of Death is on ICD, you can literally kill them through stealth before they stomp you.

If the thief is full health and stomping, I use #1 and right after I see a ‘miss’ use #2. I get the fear ~50% of the time depending on how much I spammed 2 :P

EremiteAngel.9765:

If a change hits your skill negatively, then don’t use that skill.
if it affects your build negatively, then change your build.

Just posting because I want to agree with all of the others that you blaming us for bad behavior and at the same time defending ANets decisions regarding changes to the necro is ridiculous.

The community did so many things in the hopes of changes including this beauty:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Traitworks-Dead-Last/first

This sub-forums own CDI.
Some of the ideas were implemented but there are so many more quality posts about the state of the necromancer buried here, it actually makes me sad.

We care about the profession because we stuck with it until now. Through all the things like the introduction of DS overflow, the Dhuumfire patch, the quick rise and fall of sPvP MM, our downed health being bugged, and the insult that was the siphoning “buff”.

In the end most of us are not asking for much, one or two blast finishers, maybe a unique group buff in our traits. No one dares to dream that siphons may become viable one day.
But this isn’t what ANets vision is/was (even though they failed to implement it correctly).

At the same time ANet changed their vision regarding the warrior, they reverted changes to elementalists and at least tried to buff rangers.

I’m not even angry, just disappointed.

So let me get this straight.. this is a thread about complaining… about complaining?

EremiteAngel.9765:

If a change hits your skill negatively, then don’t use that skill.
if it affects your build negatively, then change your build.

Of course.

But this is also a forum about feedback and experiences, and its fair to discuss them here. Anet has shown they often review these forums, so pointing out problem areas or areas that seem unfairly impacted by changes is fair game.

I dont think they really thought about fitg when they did their stability review since they revised our stability (our ONLY stability) with a minimum of attention.

Relax, guys. We’re OP as f_ck in downed state now. If we can just win all our down v down fights we can claw our way to the top of the food chain in no time. Look our Ranger “Lick Wounds”, there’s a new threat on the rise.

Anet looks to the guardian, thief, warrior and engineer communities for the necromancer balance ques. No one on the balance team mains a necromancer, especially in any kind of serious PvP. One needs to look no further than the change-log history for the last 2.5 years. Considering the circumstance, I think the community has been taking it rather well.

EremiteAngel.9765:

I don’t pvp or gvg or wvw zerg much so I cant say for those areas.

what i do 99% of the time with my necro is wvw solo roam.
and I must say necro is not weak at all.

I win 99% of the time against builds that I have an advantage against, like against every other condi build, I got a strong advantage even when I played badly. like against every boon stacking build like dd ele if I switch to corrupt boon in time.

Even against professions that I generally am on even ground or even suffer against, it is not a one-sided fight, but a 50-50 fight against like thief and mesmers and guardians.

The only profession/build I really suffer against is a longbow zerker ranger. Almost always a one sided win for the ranger if he knows how to kite well.

So actually I am very happy where necros are right now.

We Are Strong.

And Nothing Stands In Our Way.

When I solo roam as necro, warrior, thief, mesmer, or ranger, and sometimes guardian, I get the same results. That doesn’t mean necros are in a good spot, that means the average mindless straggler or uplevel, or just PvE’er turned “roamer” isn’t very good. Most people that I’ve come across in WvW have been builds meant for a zerg, not a 1 v 1 – 5 v 5.

I think we need to show better appreciation and manners.

If a change hits your skill negatively, then don’t use that skill.
if it affects your build negatively, then change your build.

I’d like to add “if they put a big d*** in your b*tt every second patch, then don’t play the class.”

And

“If the balance work in this game is so ridiculously bad and you don’t wanna play the easy to win cheese builds, play another game.”

It’s so simple guys!

EremiteAngel.9765:

Post patch, I just glance through all the other professions’ forum threads and guess what? they have little to no hate there.

No one is crying and screaming and denouncing ANET for the changes.
Some even thank and applaud the changes.

But look at our Necro forum.
You see so much hate posts complaining about this and complaining about that.

I think we need to show better appreciation and manners.

If a change hits your skill negatively, then don’t use that skill.
if it affects your build negatively, then change your build.

a willow tree bends with the wind
a straight tree cracks under pressure

be that willow tree

this post gave me a headache, what in the actual f…..

WE COMPLAIN BECAUSE THERE IS A TON OF THINGS TO COMPLAIN ABOUT WHEN IT COMES TO NECROMANCER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just got here, I have no hate.

I actually agree with this post alot. I mean I used to complain a whole bunch (at least a whole lot more) but its like, if the class sucks it sucks. That’s why I’m really happy the Revenant is comming out. And even if somewhere the game fails me more i’ll just move on to a different game.

There are lots of other games out there even ones on the horizon that look great. EQnext looks very interesting and there are just loads of others.

Be the willow tree.

i dont think this ermiteangel is playing the same game as i am because w/e this person is posting is positively and simply going to make me want to hurl. Also this person must not know how to read if he or she thinks that the necro part of the forum is the only section that players have problems with in terms of patchnotes on their profession. FYI its not the nerfs or buffs its how anet ruined the game in general.

Um, sorry but no. People complain because there are valid reasons to complain. Especially considering we all spent money on this game. How much or how often is inconsequential.