With the new WvW patch we will see point gains from stomping an enemy… if you look at all other professions we have the hardest time and jumping through hoops to do a 100% success stomp.
Ele : Mist form
Engi : Elixir S
Mesmer : Distortion / Stealth
Thief : Stealth
Guardian : Multiple ways to get Stability/invul
Warrior : Multiple ways to get Stability
Ranger : Rampage As One elite (20 sec stability)
This leaves me to my point… Necro you have to spec 30 points into stability for death shroud and not a lot of people like to go that far in that line. Also you need to do a tricky timed 2 button tap (press stomp and DS close together to do a stability stomp). Necros can also do the same in lich/plague… but it’s the same jumping through hoops that no other classes needs to do. Maybe a fix is that you can finish in DS/elites?
What do others think?
I roam WvW on my necro a lot. I have some good days and bad days. The bad days are when I could make a 2 hour montage of me just failing stomps (oh so many lost kills, kitten you downed state!). No other class has the pain of stomping that Necros have
I’d like to add that we are the only light armor class that can’t completely avoid a stomp either. IMO, if we don’t stomp well, it should be difficult to stomp us. If get stomped easily, we should be able to stomp easily. Necros have the worst of both worlds atm.
Yea, I recently started a post about 1v1 vs ranger and in fact 80% of my defeat is due to the stomp. I often down my ranger guildie but my health is <50% I will often be downed by him. Once both are down, no one can beat a ranger.
Last night I tried shroud stomp, better, because it doesn’t hurt my health and I can fear the pet away. But DS has to be ready at the time of stomping.
Then I sacrifice one of my utility for well of darkness, I can stomp him 100% but then I have one less skill……
I dunno if this is normal but my experience of 1v1 vs ranger is now all down to the stomping.
WoD is garbage for securing stomps in anything but a 1v1 with classes that cant move or invis in downed state.
and stability/mist form helps against classes that invis,tele or move in downed state?
it saves you from the downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts (… warrs) which is pretty kitten good
exactly my point, “downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts” which is pretty kitten weak, sorry but you got your cats mixed up. How often are you fighting teams with no ranged interrupts?
also why are you using stab/mist on a class that hasn’t used it’s invis/tele/invul downed ability yet? not very smart…
The argument is once they have used their invis/tele/invul downed ability you can guarantee a stomp with stab/mist/invul, WoD still is not guaranteed and you are better off using it to greater effect in a different situation.
WoD is garbage for securing stomps in anything but a 1v1 with classes that cant move or invis in downed state.
and stability/mist form helps against classes that invis,tele or move in downed state?
it saves you from the downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts (… warrs) which is pretty kitten good
exactly my point, “downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts” which is pretty kitten weak, sorry but you got your cats mixed up. How often are you fighting teams with no ranged interrupts?
also why are you using stab/mist on a class that hasn’t used it’s invis/tele/invul downed ability yet? not very smart…
The argument is once they have used their invis/tele/invul downed ability you can guarantee a stomp with stab/mist/invul, WoD still is not guaranteed and you are better off using it to greater effect in a different situation.
suprisingly often, and if there is then shroudstomp+doom them
and you dont; thats the point; nothing helps stomp movers except blink stomp so why did you add in about invis or movable downed states? (also WoD blinds mesmers kitten annoying backstabtasm, which ive found useful)
no ones saying its as good as invuln stomps (like stab stomps/invis stomps arent as good as invuln stomps), but its a way to increase the chances of you getting a stomp off
WoD is garbage for securing stomps in anything but a 1v1 with classes that cant move or invis in downed state.
and stability/mist form helps against classes that invis,tele or move in downed state?
it saves you from the downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts (… warrs) which is pretty kitten good
exactly my point, “downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts” which is pretty kitten weak, sorry but you got your cats mixed up. How often are you fighting teams with no ranged interrupts?
also why are you using stab/mist on a class that hasn’t used it’s invis/tele/invul downed ability yet? not very smart…
The argument is once they have used their invis/tele/invul downed ability you can guarantee a stomp with stab/mist/invul, WoD still is not guaranteed and you are better off using it to greater effect in a different situation.
and you dont; thats the point; nothing helps stomp movers except blink stomp so why did you add in about invis or movable downed states?
because I have noticed by your other posts that one needs to add disclaimers to the argument for you, or you cry about those exceptions. In the end you still cried about the exceptions even with the disclaimer…
WoD is garbage for securing stomps in anything but a 1v1 with classes that cant move or invis in downed state.
and stability/mist form helps against classes that invis,tele or move in downed state?
it saves you from the downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts (… warrs) which is pretty kitten good
exactly my point, “downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts” which is pretty kitten weak, sorry but you got your cats mixed up. How often are you fighting teams with no ranged interrupts?
also why are you using stab/mist on a class that hasn’t used it’s invis/tele/invul downed ability yet? not very smart…
The argument is once they have used their invis/tele/invul downed ability you can guarantee a stomp with stab/mist/invul, WoD still is not guaranteed and you are better off using it to greater effect in a different situation.
and you dont; thats the point; nothing helps stomp movers except blink stomp so why did you add in about invis or movable downed states?
because I have noticed by your other posts that one needs to add disclaimers to the argument for you, or you cry about those exceptions. In the end you still cried about the exceptions even with the disclaimer…
as ive pointed out in several of my posts; i only do that because im extremely pedantic (and i do it in my own posts because i dont like people telling me something as if it hasnt crossed my mind – i also have aspergus; high functioning autism… i have a number of weird quirks… such as my overuse of semi colons and ellipses… but i do so because it helps me organise my thoughts into something normal people may be able to follow)
so what turned the debate into such a personal affair? i disagree with you claiming WoD is trash; you (seem to; i could be misunderstanding) personally attack me
We don’t get any “real” stability, vigor, mobility, defense, only 1 single long cd blast finisher that needs an enemy to even trigger, useless combo fields that people in wvw rage at or ignore in dungeons, elites that do less damage than our #1 skill or will aggro unwanted attention. Plague is decent in some cases, especially spvp. Atleast we got one of the best heals in the game.
WoD is garbage for securing stomps in anything but a 1v1 with classes that cant move or invis in downed state.
and stability/mist form helps against classes that invis,tele or move in downed state?
it saves you from the downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts (… warrs) which is pretty kitten good
exactly my point, “downed players interrupts as well as any melee interrupts” which is pretty kitten weak, sorry but you got your cats mixed up. How often are you fighting teams with no ranged interrupts?
also why are you using stab/mist on a class that hasn’t used it’s invis/tele/invul downed ability yet? not very smart…
The argument is once they have used their invis/tele/invul downed ability you can guarantee a stomp with stab/mist/invul, WoD still is not guaranteed and you are better off using it to greater effect in a different situation.
and you dont; thats the point; nothing helps stomp movers except blink stomp so why did you add in about invis or movable downed states?
because I have noticed by your other posts that one needs to add disclaimers to the argument for you, or you cry about those exceptions. In the end you still cried about the exceptions even with the disclaimer…
as ive pointed out in several of my posts; i only do that because im extremely pedantic (and i do it in my own posts because i dont like people telling me something as if it hasnt crossed my mind – i also have aspergus; high functioning autism… i have a number of weird quirks… such as my overuse of semi colons and ellipses… but i do so because it helps me organise my thoughts into something normal people may be able to follow)
so what turned the debate into such a personal affair? i disagree with you claiming WoD is trash; you (seem to; i could be misunderstanding) personally attack me
my guess is it was this post and this post alone that turned it into a personal affair.
WoD is garbage for securing stomps in anything but a 1v1 with classes that cant move or invis in downed state.
So is stability, invulnerability, blocking, distortion and others.
not true at all, they are the best option in game for this
Which is equally as good as blind.
Ever seen Thieves spamming blackpowder on every downed players?
no, blind is nowhere near equal to stability, invulnerability for stomping.
I have seen Thieves spamming blackpowder, what’s your point? it doesn’t take up a util slot and has no cooldown?
Oh I see now, you are agreeing with the OP that Necros are the worst stompers.
Alright carry on then
Wut? Yes it is. Unless we are talking about a mesmer or guardian coming from behind you and knocking you away, blind is as good as invuln. Why? Its makes wave of wrath, thunder clap, hammer throw, engi pull and fear miss. You dont even need stability just blinds.
Other than that, blinks and well placed shadowsteps can stomp everyone else assuming the timing is right. Of course, necros don’t have a port. That is where they fall, so necros cannot stomp 3 of the 8 classes. But their down state is what needs some work.
Necros have been terrible at stomping forever. This is why necro’s can’t solo roam. Even if you down 2 or 3 people, 1 of them is bound to kill a mob and they are all going to rally before you ever get a stomp off. Even if you do go 30 into Soul reaping, you still have to choose between deathly perception and foot in the grave… 2 very awesome traits.
To be fair Necro’s have one of the best raw offense/defense combos out there. In a straight duel we can smash every other class but mesmer.
What personally really annoys me. Is can’t stop/res while transformed, unless you press them within the same ‘GCD’. Prob worst when a allie drops next to you… Do you ditch your elite skill, or a the lest put what’s suppose to be our own defense on full CD to res them?
Other big one for me is… Why 1 target fear only. Isn’t some sort of AoE keep away button the norm?
I agree. Roaming is fun with my necro, but i have hard times stomping. If our disadvantage in stomping compared to other classes is wanted, then i would like to know why…pls
I have to agree stomping with a necro is annoying and typically find myself having to dps them down which takes longer. I also agree on the point we seem a little weak with our downed skill but i’d prefer the ability to stomp more.
The Balance [TB]
80 Engi / 2×80 Ranger / 80 War / 2×80 Mesmer / 80 Necro / 80 Thief / 80 Ele / 80 Guard
I figured opting on Well of Power on Stomping but with the ridiculous 1s stability I don’t see the point unless it’s buffed for the whole duration of the well (5s).
I figured opting on Well of Power on Stomping but with the ridiculous 1s stability I don’t see the point unless it’s buffed for the whole duration of the well (5s).
The 1s stability is there to protect you for that 1 second cast.
also its worth bearing in mind that only invuln stomps are totally safe (but still interruptable by stealth/moving…)
stab still leaves you open to getting downed yourself or boonstrip/corrupt
stealth leaves you open to hard CC
this (to me) makes blind stomping much more comparable (ranged interrupts and downing only)
and theres only three classes with invulns that can stomp (ele, engi and mesmer)
- also you can activate plague form whilst stomping; which i often end up doing in wvw
Mesmer also has invuln stomp with distortion, which on a 60s CD is pretty decent.
Blind stomps are great 1v1, (especially blackpowder with it’s lolnoCD) but with multiple enemies around it’s still easy to get CC’d by another person, which against a co-ordinated group, is a tad likely.
Stability is as you said vulnerable to just being beaten down or boon corrupted, which is why a proper shroudstomp is so great. You’re protected from CC by stability (there’s like a 0.1s window where you can get CC’d before the stomp though), and LF makes it next to impossible to down you before pulling it off. On top of that, shroudstomping has a 10s CD, making it the overall best stomp in my opinion, combining reliability with frequency. Of course you have to use foot in the grave for it, which won’t sit well for how a lot of necro’s play (and generally unviable for tpvp), but when I use it in WvW it truly is delicious.
Except if you muck the timing up you just wasted you elite(maybe) or leave yourself vulnerable as you didn’t hit Plague quick enough and now stomping unprotected where others wouldn’t have this problem.
I do love some Plague stomping myself I had 5 people try attacking me one time that I remember they were confused as hell how I stomped the guy, but not everyone can do this.
Why must necros alone have to jump through hoops to do a stomp that is certain? No other class except maybe thief (they have stealth but they could still be interrupted) has to.
Except if you muck the timing up you just wasted you elite(maybe) or leave yourself vulnerable as you didn’t hit Plague quick enough and now stomping unprotected where others wouldn’t have this problem.
I do love some Plague stomping myself I had 5 people try attacking me one time that I remember they were confused as hell how I stomped the guy, but not everyone can do this.
Why must necros alone have to jump through hoops to do a stomp that is certain? No other class except maybe thief (they have stealth but they could still be interrupted) has to.
Everyone has it easy mode except us Necros.
i was under the impression plague is usable at any point during the stomp (since its instantcast)… if not then theres a fairly long period after initiating the stomp you can use plague in..
A few ways:
1. Shroudstomping (it’s not exactly hard, practice a quick 1-2 on Shroud -> F or whatever you have for interact) [I’ve seen quick Shatters with Shattered Concentration trait + CC counter it properly, or a quick Necro Axe 3 + fear/Mesmer GS 3 + 5, or you can just be very surgical and wait for last moment of stomp to interrupt]
2. Lichstomping (wait till very last moment of cast and spam/press F)
3. Plaguestomping (at any point after stomp initiation, Plague is instant)
4. Well of Darkness stomp (just like Black Powder, yes there’s a long CD)
5. Guardian blind stomp with Dagger 4 (if you stomp immediately after down he will have no way to clear blind. Wait out invuln, blind then stomp safely)
6. Dodge stomping (dodge the Down 2 when you see the hand come up. Still faster than eating CC)
7. Corner Golem stomp (if you launch target while downed, he will not be able to use skills in the knocked down animation. Launch him in a corner/wall and your stomp will still reach him)
Necro do have long CDs on stomp options besides shroudstomping which can only be used in certain specs and seem like a bug, but it’s still very nice to have.
If we are talking strictly 1v1 downed state battle it could be tricky if you’re not power specc’d, since 50% downed damage helps a lot. If you are really low remember DS. If you have no DS spam all your condis on him to give yourself a headstart. Remember dodge stomping is still quicker than getting CC’d.
Normally Necro’s role in teamfights won’t be to stomp anyway unless absolutely called for. You do much more by AoE cleaving the downed target with conditions (poison slows rezzes) and spreading Epidemic to wipe everybody in a teamfight. Or at least weaken the Guardian doing his thing by blowing all his shouts and VoR.
With a Power Necro in extreme cases, use Lich + wells to take both the downed body and the rezzer out of the fight. In that case, you don’t even need to stomp… just Lich everything dead. Keep in mind reflects can ruin it.
Plague is well known to be used for stomp assist with blindspam.
5 useless class titles
Carrying enemy team since 2012
“Multiclass implies you can actually play the class” – a certain royalty
No stomp option for necro is perfect, i wouldn’t spend my elite skill for one stomp.
Best option is spending 30 trait point at soul reaping for 3s stability of ds, but it’s just a waste of 30 traits if you’re conditionmancer. they have to move this stability trait to adept tier of death magic or blood magic trait lines. Because these trait lines are commonly used among builds.
WoD is garbage for securing stomps in anything but a 1v1 with classes that cant move or invis in downed state.
So is stability, invulnerability, blocking, distortion and others.
not true at all, they are the best option in game for this
Which is equally as good as blind.
Ever seen Thieves spamming blackpowder on every downed players?
no, blind is nowhere near equal to stability, invulnerability for stomping.
I have seen Thieves spamming blackpowder, what’s your point? it doesn’t take up a util slot and has no cooldown?
Oh I see now, you are agreeing with the OP that Necros are the worst stompers.
Alright carry on then
Do you mind explaining the difference then?
What do Invulns do to help with stomping? They stop the attack/interupts, so do blinds.
If Ele’s can save and blow mist form for a stomp, a necro can blow well of darkness for a stomp….
Only difference is an interupt from another player at long distance, that’s really the only difference.
no it isnt
WoD pulses blind every second which can be circumvented (say… warr longbow burst>switches to hammer and CCs you) or berserker stance or utility goggles (which… is used on… shrug SD builds? lol)
and you can still be downed
invuln stomps are clearly the strongest form of stomps (only interruptable by movement)
No stomp option for necro is perfect, i wouldn’t spend my elite skill for one stomp.
Best option is spending 30 trait point at soul reaping for 3s stability of ds, but it’s just a waste of 30 traits if you’re conditionmancer. they have to move this stability trait to adept tier of death magic or blood magic trait lines. Because these trait lines are commonly used among builds.
Not only is it a waste, it also doesn’t work well on a condition mancer. I ran a 20/20/0/0/30 just to get that secure stomp and soon started noticing, that my damage output from conditions had suffered so much, that I could go up against a warrior or ele. I would love to have any form of secure stomp because even if I get ahead in a 1v2/3 and get one person down, I just cant stomp them. Blowing the elite for one stomp seems a bit over the top to me. Move Foot In The Grave to death magic, that would atleast synergize with staff masteries and give some purpose to this otherwise mediocre trait line.
