Guild Wars 2

Dark Original Video
Increased Gamma/Brightness Video

Nemesis was the record holder for Mossman with Wolves for some days, as it was done 4-5 days ago, later it was beaten by Sesshi with a Engineer time of 4:30 + 2 seconds ca. for slightly speedup at some parts of the video caused by render issues

Nemesis: “Necromancer is not lacking in damage”
Engineer does it 2 minutes faster.

That literally means that in this case the Engineer is doing roughly 50% more average DPS than the Necromancer in an identical scenario. If that isn’t telling about the current state of the Necromancer I don’t know what is.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Nemesis: “Necromancer is not lacking in damage”
Engineer does it 2 minutes faster.

That literally means that in this case the Engineer is doing roughly 50% more average DPS than the Necromancer in an identical scenario. If that isn’t telling about the current state of the Necromancer I don’t know what is.

Though he also correctly stated that a solo scenario such as this isn’t ideal for showcasing a class’s group potential.
On the other hand, I have no idea why he seems to think that this video stands in his favour in any way.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Nemesis: “Necromancer is not lacking in damage”
Engineer does it 2 minutes faster.

That literally means that in this case the Engineer is doing roughly 50% more average DPS than the Necromancer in an identical scenario. If that isn’t telling about the current state of the Necromancer I don’t know what is.

He also mentioned that a profession like necromancer who’s attack more frequently require a target prevents him from having 100% DPS up time while the engineer can sustain their DPS up time because of their lack of a target requirement keeping their DPS up time even when mossman was in stealth. Which he’s not wrong.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Nemesis: “Necromancer is not lacking in damage”
Engineer does it 2 minutes faster.

That literally means that in this case the Engineer is doing roughly 50% more average DPS than the Necromancer in an identical scenario. If that isn’t telling about the current state of the Necromancer I don’t know what is.

Nemesis made a statement in the video about what you wrote, listen 6:52 till 7:27

Rising Dusk.2408:

Nemesis: “Necromancer is not lacking in damage”
Engineer does it 2 minutes faster.

That literally means that in this case the Engineer is doing roughly 50% more average DPS than the Necromancer in an identical scenario. If that isn’t telling about the current state of the Necromancer I don’t know what is.

1. He adressed exactly this point and

2. it is more the mechanics that are bad. He could easily have killed mossman a lot faster if Golem wouldn’t glitch out mossman to oneshot it out of stealth making it unavoidable and the oneshot being AE means the Necro usually also gets hit. Which is just plain stupid.

Also 3rd, I have not seen a video of a Zerker Warrior, Guardian etc. solo Mossman faster, Engi just has a huge advantage against the stealth part of the fight most professions do not have. 100% DPS uptime vs 70% DPS uptime will always result in a clear difference in TTK.

Sesshi claims to have done it in 6:01 on Necro. I applaud Nemesis for saying that’s awesome if true. Just show’s Nemesis is actually trying to help.

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

You didn’t see his video. You remind me of current republicans in the USA, talking like that without even seeing the video.

As usual nemesis vid is good and bad at the same time.
I totally agree, soloing a boss is “meaningless” in a teamplay oriented game and it doesn’t prove anything about how a class behave in a party since you have to change your build. It does allow players to show off but I’m sure there are better players that just don’t see the point of soloing a boss.
Sadly the “flame” about zerk meta and other forum users is imo “too much”. And use the “target-required spell” as a reason to justify the loss of damage is imo the proof the necro’s lacking what other classes have.

Anyway both videos are nice, gj on the solo mossman

JoaoFA.8475:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

You didn’t see his video. You remind me of current republicans in the USA, talking like that without even seeing the video.

Yet you fail to point out what was wrong with my statement…

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

I don’t think that this is really fair to him. As I understand it, he was challenged to get below 10 minutes and did just that. Additionally, the way he did it (with wolves) was less efficient than the way others have done it, not more. His time was then (coincidentally) beaten by a profession and build that has every advantage in this situation.

It isn’t the world record, but it doesn’t need to be to prove his point. Not everyone can solo the Mossman at Scale 50, and I’d venture a guess that most people who can couldn’t beat his time regardless of their profession. He’s (explicitly) not saying this proves that the Necromancer is the best profession, just that this particular build can do a pretty good job in this particular scenario if the player is sufficiently skilled. I really don’t see how anyone could object to that conclusion.

Nemesis certainly goes overboard with the sass to the point of rudeness in some of his videos, but this one is really just impressive.

JoaoFA.8475:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

You didn’t see his video. You remind me of current republicans in the USA, talking like that without even seeing the video.

Lololololololol. You remind me of the Democrats in the USA, talking like that without thinking about what he said first.

Blaine Tog.8304:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

I don’t think that this is really fair to him. As I understand it, he was challenged to get below 10 minutes and did just that. Additionally, the way he did it (with wolves) was less efficient than the way others have done it, not more. His time was then (coincidentally) beaten by a profession and build that has every advantage in this situation.

It isn’t the world record, but it doesn’t need to be to prove his point. Not everyone can solo the Mossman at Scale 50, and I’d venture a guess that most people who can couldn’t beat his time regardless of their profession. He’s (explicitly) not saying this proves that the Necromancer is the best profession, just that this particular build can do a pretty good job in this particular scenario if the player is sufficiently skilled. I really don’t see how anyone could object to that conclusion.

Nemesis certainly goes overboard with the sass to the point of rudeness in some of his videos, but this one is really just impressive.

His video doesn’t prove or show anything of interest. He took some wildly out of context rebuttals to his previous poorly done video, made up his own ideal scenario to “disprove” them, and then showed us something else without any value.

It’s fine that necro can solo mossman, and if that was his accomplishment then great, he did a good job at that! But that isn’t what his video is even about. His last video went on and on and on about how buffing wasn’t important and necros did so much damage compared to PS warriors, then proceeded to show his awesome dps always in a group with a PS warrior buffed out the wazzoo.

People told him that buffing was what was causing his dps to be so high, and that a full dps warrior could easily out dps him and his dps would be much lower without all that buffing. Also he talked a lot about sustained dps but only showed his lich form burst dps.

To top it all off his amazing super dps build wasn’t even used in this video since he needed to be much more tanky to survive.

The fact that there are less wolves which let him get a new “record” that is 2 minutes slower than the warrior record has nothing to do with dps, but everything to do with ability to kite and tank damage, which necros are known to be good at, yet have no purpose in group settings, hence why speed run damage clears are done without the wolves to show a classes damage potential not its solo tankiness.

Finally everyone says that the engineer beat his time by 2 minutes because he can attack without targeting anything…. yet 7 of nemesis’s 10 skills are ground targeted and don’t need a target to hit and made up the vast majority of his damage, so that argument is just absurd.

Edit: even the devs know that necros dps is low, hence why scepter is getting buffed tomorrow. I would actually be interested in the post buff mossman solo to see if it can get closer to the other classes times dps wise. That would actually be a more informative video if nemesis is actually interested in helping the necro community and not just generating page views.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Blaine Tog.8304:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

I don’t think that this is really fair to him. As I understand it, he was challenged to get below 10 minutes and did just that. Additionally, the way he did it (with wolves) was less efficient than the way others have done it, not more. His time was then (coincidentally) beaten by a profession and build that has every advantage in this situation.

It isn’t the world record, but it doesn’t need to be to prove his point. Not everyone can solo the Mossman at Scale 50, and I’d venture a guess that most people who can couldn’t beat his time regardless of their profession. He’s (explicitly) not saying this proves that the Necromancer is the best profession, just that this particular build can do a pretty good job in this particular scenario if the player is sufficiently skilled. I really don’t see how anyone could object to that conclusion.

Nemesis certainly goes overboard with the sass to the point of rudeness in some of his videos, but this one is really just impressive.

His video doesn’t prove or show anything of interest. He took some wildly out of context rebuttals to his previous poorly done video, made up his own ideal scenario to “disprove” them, and then showed us something else without any value.

It’s fine that necro can solo mossman, and if that was his accomplishment then great, he did a good job at that! But that isn’t what his video is even about. His last video went on and on and on about how buffing wasn’t important and necros did so much damage compared to PS warriors, then proceeded to show his awesome dps always in a group with a PS warrior buffed out the wazzoo.

People told him that buffing was what was causing his dps to be so high, and that a full dps warrior could easily out dps him and his dps would be much lower without all that buffing. Also he talked a lot about sustained dps but only showed his lich form burst dps.

To top it all off his amazing super dps build wasn’t even used in this video since he needed to be much more tanky to survive.

The fact that there are less wolves which let him get a new “record” that is 2 minutes slower than the warrior record has nothing to do with dps, but everything to do with ability to kite and tank damage, which necros are known to be good at, yet have no purpose in group settings, hence why speed run damage clears are done without the wolves to show a classes damage potential not its solo tankiness.

Finally everyone says that the engineer beat his time by 2 minutes because he can attack without targeting anything…. yet 7 of nemesis’s 10 skills are ground targeted and don’t need a target to hit and made up the vast majority of his damage, so that argument is just absurd.

Edit: even the devs know that necros dps is low, hence why scepter is getting buffed tomorrow. I would actually be interested in the post buff mossman solo to see if it can get closer to the other classes times dps wise. That would actually be a more informative video if nemesis is actually interested in helping the necro community and not just generating page views.

And here we have the prime example of someone who butchers facts and only listens to a max of 30% of what was said.

Eg. : “he goes on about buffs aren’T important”. Completely wrong, he goes on about “pre-buffing is unnecessary and buffing while fighting is actually more efficient”. For example drop them firefields and blasts on the boss instead of in the middle of nowhere BEFORE engaging the boss, meaning depending on skill 6-20 seconds preparation time and buff duration lost during running up to the boss with the buffs ticking.

“Buffing made him so strong” : Sure he never denied that; however, the warrior always is also buffed during his calculations, aswell as necros being able to sustain might and vuln by themselves.

Concerning lich-formn burst: Sure, funny how the other examples are with timewarp which is ALSO an elite.

And then it is funny how you claim his DPS build wasn’t even used but he still did comparable damage to other professions.

And in case you didn’t get this either, the Warrior he compared this to was Brazil on a pretty kitten good run also buffed by his party in the same fight. Which invalidates the rest of your claims.

So please, do everyone a favour and learn to listen to all facts, not just those you wanna hear.

Nemesis is fun to watch and despite his arrogance I must agree with him. Hes on my side after all, trying to change the overall opinion of the Necromancer!

NeXeD.3042:

JoaoFA.8475:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

You didn’t see his video. You remind me of current republicans in the USA, talking like that without even seeing the video.

Lololololololol. You remind me of the Democrats in the USA, talking like that without thinking about what he said first.

It really is so boring having to feed you word by word that which should be obvious… Nemesis did that video just to show that, for example, a condi necro isnt as bad as people make it compared to meta zerker, that the difference isnt that great compared to classes that need targeting to a certain degree (the engi did it faster because it needs zero targeting to damage the boss and has ways to avoid damage better than a necro when soloing).

Not only that but everytime he does a video criticizing the misconceptions in lfg mentality, people dare him to show solo runs as in “My d**k is bigger than yours”, which is ridiculous and has nothing to do with the lfg problems.

If this is still too hard for you to understand then listen… the problem is not in speedrunning or speedrunning mentality, but in people going to lfg, where you get random people and wanting the same standards that pro, organized, groups have when they try to break records. That’s it.

For example, waiting in lfg for the perfect team class composition 15 mins, when you could have accepted lets say a necro and a ranger, and already completed the fractal or dungeon. Or waiting for those classes and getting bad players. Usually in lfg, even if you dont use the speedrunning class composition, and assuming people are experienced, you only gain what? 1 minute or 2? If you even gain that time…

Shiki.7148:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Blaine Tog.8304:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

I don’t think that this is really fair to him. As I understand it, he was challenged to get below 10 minutes and did just that. Additionally, the way he did it (with wolves) was less efficient than the way others have done it, not more. His time was then (coincidentally) beaten by a profession and build that has every advantage in this situation.

It isn’t the world record, but it doesn’t need to be to prove his point. Not everyone can solo the Mossman at Scale 50, and I’d venture a guess that most people who can couldn’t beat his time regardless of their profession. He’s (explicitly) not saying this proves that the Necromancer is the best profession, just that this particular build can do a pretty good job in this particular scenario if the player is sufficiently skilled. I really don’t see how anyone could object to that conclusion.

Nemesis certainly goes overboard with the sass to the point of rudeness in some of his videos, but this one is really just impressive.

His video doesn’t prove or show anything of interest. He took some wildly out of context rebuttals to his previous poorly done video, made up his own ideal scenario to “disprove” them, and then showed us something else without any value.

It’s fine that necro can solo mossman, and if that was his accomplishment then great, he did a good job at that! But that isn’t what his video is even about. His last video went on and on and on about how buffing wasn’t important and necros did so much damage compared to PS warriors, then proceeded to show his awesome dps always in a group with a PS warrior buffed out the wazzoo.

People told him that buffing was what was causing his dps to be so high, and that a full dps warrior could easily out dps him and his dps would be much lower without all that buffing. Also he talked a lot about sustained dps but only showed his lich form burst dps.

To top it all off his amazing super dps build wasn’t even used in this video since he needed to be much more tanky to survive.

The fact that there are less wolves which let him get a new “record” that is 2 minutes slower than the warrior record has nothing to do with dps, but everything to do with ability to kite and tank damage, which necros are known to be good at, yet have no purpose in group settings, hence why speed run damage clears are done without the wolves to show a classes damage potential not its solo tankiness.

Finally everyone says that the engineer beat his time by 2 minutes because he can attack without targeting anything…. yet 7 of nemesis’s 10 skills are ground targeted and don’t need a target to hit and made up the vast majority of his damage, so that argument is just absurd.

Edit: even the devs know that necros dps is low, hence why scepter is getting buffed tomorrow. I would actually be interested in the post buff mossman solo to see if it can get closer to the other classes times dps wise. That would actually be a more informative video if nemesis is actually interested in helping the necro community and not just generating page views.

And here we have the prime example of someone who butchers facts and only listens to a max of 30% of what was said.

Eg. : “he goes on about buffs aren’T important”. Completely wrong, he goes on about “pre-buffing is unnecessary and buffing while fighting is actually more efficient”. For example drop them firefields and blasts on the boss instead of in the middle of nowhere BEFORE engaging the boss, meaning depending on skill 6-20 seconds preparation time and buff duration lost during running up to the boss with the buffs ticking.

“Buffing made him so strong” : Sure he never denied that; however, the warrior always is also buffed during his calculations, aswell as necros being able to sustain might and vuln by themselves.

Concerning lich-formn burst: Sure, funny how the other examples are with timewarp which is ALSO an elite.

And then it is funny how you claim his DPS build wasn’t even used but he still did comparable damage to other professions.

And in case you didn’t get this either, the Warrior he compared this to was Brazil on a pretty kitten good run also buffed by his party in the same fight. Which invalidates the rest of your claims.

So please, do everyone a favour and learn to listen to all facts, not just those you wanna hear.

You are absolutely right. Also, according the Brazil, it is part of the current “meta” to include buffing in the fight rotation. Which is what Nemesis advocates If people were to stop measuring and comparing their “thingies” they would understand Nem’s point.

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

Damage isn’t the necromancer’s problem People claim the damage of the mesmer is extremely low as well however they get into groups. The issue was never with the necromancer’s damage but their utility. Which the reaper actually provides through how reliable their vuln stacking is and how long their stacks last. Blood is power is cute, but its not phalanx. Corrosive poison cloud will be great, but its not wall of reflection or feedback. Vampiric aura is nice but it doesn’t really compare to banners. Transfusion is great but its not Battle Standard.

You have allot of situations where the necromancer is just being out classed while trying to provide the same type of support. And thats the issue. It never was damage. And it never will be damage. The necromancer has rather high damage. The issue with their damage has been a few things and I’ll list them for you to help you understand.

1. Many of their damaging skills create dark fields. Players don’t like having dark fields around because they might blast on the wrong field negating their might stacking while they’re sitting in a corner.
2. Dagger hits very few targets. The dagger only strikes 2 targets with the auto. The auto attack’s damage is quite sizable, but it struggles when trying to cleave down the foes while you’re stacking in a corner which makes even the mesmer’s sword more useful in that situation.
3. Necromancers have poor burst DPS. Although their sustained damage is extremely good, actually getting stronger as the fight goes longer, this isn’t wanted in groups who can just disable the boss for 5 seconds and have it dead with exploits before it even knew what happened.
4. Life blast doesn’t cleave. Another problem for your corner stacking. The necromancer’s life blast can pierce but not cleave. this makes it less valuable in corner stacking.
5. life blast is slow. Life blast’s damage is absolutely insane. it hits like a truck and keeps hitting again and again getting stronger and stronger each time it does thanks to spite. But because of this it tends to be a slow but strong projectile. While other people are doing 2-3 attacks in that same time and cleaving down the foes while you’ve maybe only got off a few blasts because you’re stacked in a corner.
6. People stack in corners. A lot of people like to pull mobs and stack in a corner, cleaving them down as quickly as possible before reacting. The necromancer isn’t favored in this situation because of their poor cleaving weapons. Although there is nothing wrong with the dagger as it is, it just doesn’t hit 5 targets…

Basically, get out of the corner and actually fight. I’ve run dungeons and fractals both ways and it is a million times more rewarding to fight the boss as they intended it and not exploiting bad AI…

Lily.1935:

Rising Dusk.2408:

Nemesis: “Necromancer is not lacking in damage”
Engineer does it 2 minutes faster.

That literally means that in this case the Engineer is doing roughly 50% more average DPS than the Necromancer in an identical scenario. If that isn’t telling about the current state of the Necromancer I don’t know what is.

He also mentioned that a profession like necromancer who’s attack more frequently require a target prevents him from having 100% DPS up time while the engineer can sustain their DPS up time because of their lack of a target requirement keeping their DPS up time even when mossman was in stealth. Which he’s not wrong.

+1

Support will not be changed, only our dmg can get a change.

So forget Nemesis and all the self proclaiming videos he made.

He told us so much wrong stuff in the past. I can´t even imaging why he has still so many “fanboys”.
His Guardianguide was fail, his hybridbuild was not “the best dps” hybrid, his rotation was fail, his “dps necromancer” guide was complelty fail. He told us “axe is the best dps weapon”. Just to give u a few examples.

Yes all them are old, but thats things he tried to tell us.

Things he tried to sell us as fact. Even if we all know that they are not true.

The Meta is not the necromancers problem, the necromancer itself is the problem in pve.

Liliys opinion is the same.

We will never get a complete class overhaul to be a second mesmer.

And the AI was never the problem, and not the reason why necros are so bad for pve.

And exploits aren´t used these days. Even most pugs don´t stack in corners anymore, and even if they don´t use icebows they don´t want necros for a reason.

Be sure, raidbosses will be everything u want, everything u think that necros will be great for. And we will not rly get a place, remember this when HoT comes out.

The only thing we probably can change is anets view. We can hope that we will get a pve dps buff. And a few small tweeks.

Some sPvP necro would kill that boss under minute.

Norjena.5172:

Support will not be changed, only our dmg can get a change.

So forget Nemesis and all the self proclaiming videos he made.

He told us so much wrong stuff in the past. I can´t even imaging why he has still so many “fanboys”.
His Guardianguide was fail, his hybridbuild was not “the best dps” hybrid, his rotation was fail, his “dps necromancer” guide was complelty fail. He told us “axe is the best dps weapon”. Just to give u a few examples.

Yes all them are old, but thats things he tried to tell us.

Things he tried to sell us as fact. Even if we all know that they are not true.

The Meta is not the necromancers problem, the necromancer itself is the problem in pve.

Liliys opinion is the same.

We will never get a complete class overhaul to be a second mesmer.

And the AI was never the problem, and not the reason why necros are so bad for pve.

And exploits aren´t used these days. Even most pugs don´t stack in corners anymore, and even if they don´t use icebows they don´t want necros for a reason.

Be sure, raidbosses will be everything u want, everything u think that necros will be great for. And we will not rly get a place, remember this when HoT comes out.

The only thing we probably can change is anets view. We can hope that we will get a pve dps buff. And a few small tweeks.

And people only ever listen to half of what you have to say. Also. The hell they don’t. I was just in a fractal the other day where we had people INSIST on stacking in a corner. On a level 5 fractal no less. A LEVEL 5! And he said “You’ll do this all the time when you get to higher levels.” Which I basically told him I run 50s and never resort to that.

Also my “opinion” is shared with allot of people and you can’t dismiss it just because you don’t agree with it. You’ll have to prove it wrong if you want to do that. And its not wrong, everything I’ve said is true and remains true to this day.

To get a better understanding as to why people don’t want the necromancer, Most people actually DON’T know why. They just assume that “damage” is the reason and it never has been.

I also never said “necros need a complete class overhaul” I was comparing two situations where people assume the damage of something is bad but take it anyway for its utility. I don’t want necros to be a second mesmer or anything ridiculous like that. Stacking in a corner is exploiting. People still do it all the time and guides will tell you to do so.

And I never said the meta was the problem either. The devs did! I didn’t. But then again, what do they know. They only made the game, its not like they know anything about it. And by the way, that was sarcasm! In case you can’t catch that since you only like to listen to half of what people say.

JoaoFA.8475:

NeXeD.3042:

JoaoFA.8475:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

So he defined his own category for a speedrun to invalidate how every other class does it faster. Does it in a new way that is much slower, and then is immediately beaten in his own necro favored run by more than 2 minutes….

not exactly a glowing review for necro.

You didn’t see his video. You remind me of current republicans in the USA, talking like that without even seeing the video.

Lololololololol. You remind me of the Democrats in the USA, talking like that without thinking about what he said first.

It really is so boring having to feed you word by word that which should be obvious… Nemesis did that video just to show that, for example, a condi necro isnt as bad as people make it compared to meta zerker, that the difference isnt that great compared to classes that need targeting to a certain degree (the engi did it faster because it needs zero targeting to damage the boss and has ways to avoid damage better than a necro when soloing).

Not only that but everytime he does a video criticizing the misconceptions in lfg mentality, people dare him to show solo runs as in “My d**k is bigger than yours”, which is ridiculous and has nothing to do with the lfg problems.

If this is still too hard for you to understand then listen… the problem is not in speedrunning or speedrunning mentality, but in people going to lfg, where you get random people and wanting the same standards that pro, organized, groups have when they try to break records. That’s it.

For example, waiting in lfg for the perfect team class composition 15 mins, when you could have accepted lets say a necro and a ranger, and already completed the fractal or dungeon. Or waiting for those classes and getting bad players. Usually in lfg, even if you dont use the speedrunning class composition, and assuming people are experienced, you only gain what? 1 minute or 2? If you even gain that time…

Find the part where I said anything about what nemesis said. Way to pull the old misdirect and call the other guy an idiot…. how very democratic of you =)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OziITkAcGfw
GW2 F50 Mossman 6:00 - Necromancer solo [with wolves]

Not bad for someone who said they only played necro a few hours.

Can we please stop posting things related to this person? The Necromancer community is widely known for being compassionate and willing to teach those who are new to the profession. This guy is just a massive flamebait and anything with him involved turns in to a troll/rantfest. The only people who think what he says is valid are the ones who don’t ask questions about what he’s saying/doing.

Be constructive. There’s enough whining within the Necro forums as is due to our position among the other professions.

Lily.1935:

Damage isn’t the necromancer’s problem People claim the damage of the mesmer is extremely low as well however they get into groups. The issue was never with the necromancer’s damage but their utility. Which the reaper actually provides through how reliable their vuln stacking is and how long their stacks last. Blood is power is cute, but its not phalanx. Corrosive poison cloud will be great, but its not wall of reflection or feedback. Vampiric aura is nice but it doesn’t really compare to banners. Transfusion is great but its not Battle Standard.

You have allot of situations where the necromancer is just being out classed while trying to provide the same type of support. And thats the issue. It never was damage. And it never will be damage. The necromancer has rather high damage. The issue with their damage has been a few things and I’ll list them for you to help you understand.

1. Many of their damaging skills create dark fields. Players don’t like having dark fields around because they might blast on the wrong field negating their might stacking while they’re sitting in a corner.
2. Dagger hits very few targets. The dagger only strikes 2 targets with the auto. The auto attack’s damage is quite sizable, but it struggles when trying to cleave down the foes while you’re stacking in a corner which makes even the mesmer’s sword more useful in that situation.
3. Necromancers have poor burst DPS. Although their sustained damage is extremely good, actually getting stronger as the fight goes longer, this isn’t wanted in groups who can just disable the boss for 5 seconds and have it dead with exploits before it even knew what happened.
4. Life blast doesn’t cleave. Another problem for your corner stacking. The necromancer’s life blast can pierce but not cleave. this makes it less valuable in corner stacking.
5. life blast is slow. Life blast’s damage is absolutely insane. it hits like a truck and keeps hitting again and again getting stronger and stronger each time it does thanks to spite. But because of this it tends to be a slow but strong projectile. While other people are doing 2-3 attacks in that same time and cleaving down the foes while you’ve maybe only got off a few blasts because you’re stacked in a corner.
6. People stack in corners. A lot of people like to pull mobs and stack in a corner, cleaving them down as quickly as possible before reacting. The necromancer isn’t favored in this situation because of their poor cleaving weapons. Although there is nothing wrong with the dagger as it is, it just doesn’t hit 5 targets…

Basically, get out of the corner and actually fight. I’ve run dungeons and fractals both ways and it is a million times more rewarding to fight the boss as they intended it and not exploiting bad AI…

It’s not always but I agree with you on all these point. I would maybe add that poison fields are hated as much as dark fields. Or minions… Well at least they are great for soloing…

Lily.1935:

life blast is slow. Life blast’s damage is absolutely insane. it hits like a truck and keeps hitting again and again getting stronger and stronger each time it does thanks to spite. But because of this it tends to be a slow but strong projectile

If only the successive cast time was actually 1s for each blast. :’( That aftercast is a killer to the dps.

Some people just behave like they were getting paid by this wannabe rockstars of Youtube to post their videos on forums and to spread their word…. /facepalm

Brando.1374:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OziITkAcGfw

GW2 F50 Mossman 6:00 – Necromancer solo [with wolves]

Not bad for someone who said they only played necro a few hours.

That’s really nice, and he is proving Nemesis’ point. Very nice of him

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

It is true though that there are scrub players out there who hate on the class. So i dont find anything wrong showing these people that we dont suck like they think. I really dislike not seeing a meta necro build in metabattle, and im sure the devs have decided against buffing necromancer dps for reasons random whiners in forums don’t know (including me). And this has been discussed to death, its not the damage, its the content that doesnt fit our support options, which are also a bit lacking…(soft cc like chill-cripple, fear blinds, lots of vuln.)

Also @Lily while i agree with most of your points, using focus4 and wells is a pretty good burst i think.

@ZudetGambeous – Inb4ModBan: 80% of your comments are about how useless necro is, how he sucks at everything etc (remember when you were saying condi necro does like 3k dps…). And the funny thing is your trash talk gets corrected everytime yet you keep your kittenposting.

Im impressed nemesis actually went and did a solo. Kudos for that. I was enjoying the video until the commentary started. :<

Pelopidas.2140:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

It is true though that there are scrub players out there who hate on the class. So i dont find anything wrong showing these people that we dont suck like they think. I really dislike not seeing a meta necro build in metabattle, and im sure the devs have decided against buffing necromancer dps for reasons random whiners in forums don’t know (including me). And this has been discussed to death, its not the damage, its the content that doesnt fit our support options, which are also a bit lacking…(soft cc like chill-cripple, fear blinds, lots of vuln.)

Also @Lily while i agree with most of your points, using focus4 and wells is a pretty good burst i think.

@ZudetGambeous – Inb4ModBan: 80% of your comments are about how useless necro is, how he sucks at everything etc (remember when you were saying condi necro does like 3k dps…). And the funny thing is your trash talk gets corrected everytime yet you keep your kittenposting.

If the best you can do is reference my dps calculation from before the condition damage changes then I’m not too worried lol. I’ve yet to be corrected on anything, everything i’ve said is or was at the time true.

Can’t believe how toxic this thread is over nothing really.

What’s even more stupid is how many people are replying without either listening to or even watching the video.

Can we please stop trying to turn a discussion about the message into a flame topic about the messenger ?
Because that’s what happens every time that Nemesis makes a video and the 13 year-olds come out to defend their precious honor and then the trolls smell blood and mingle and it all just turns to hell, on what was known as one of the friendliest and well behaved MMO class forums.

One of the first things he stated is that he was simply called out for trying, by some nobody who was offended by his previous video. He simply did it, as requested; and his time was even sufficiently interesting to open up a discussion for necromancers in the future, where pure berserker might not be an option.
Because the way I see it, this is extremely hard (if not practically impossible) to do for a squishy glass cannon. Which begs the discussion how necromancers would fare in a hypothetical raid setting where this kind of damage was more or less the norm.

Furthermore he mentions that the whole fight and time set was completely pointless as it doesn’t hold any value.
That’s what makes me facepalm so hard at some of the people here, because they get on their high horses over nothing. All this proves is that necromancer have good sustain, no big news there, and nothing else really. As a solo fight doesn’t really mean anything.

Which is a good point to make. Because in his last video where he raised some good points.
(In particular I liked his point about the futility of pre-stacking buffs for 10-20 seconds, so a boss fight goes 5-10 seconds faster.)
And the general reaction on that was along the lines was: “OH YEA?!?! Well… well…. YOU CAN’T SOLO MOSSMAN IN UNDER 10 MINUTES, BECAUSE YOU SUCK !!!”

I’m not trying to defend Nemesis here; but ad hominem are the highway to pointless and screwed up discussions.

Nyth.3492:

Can’t believe how toxic this thread is over nothing really.

What’s even more stupid is how many people are replying without either listening to or even watching the video.

Can we please stop trying to turn a discussion about the message into a flame topic about the messenger ?
Because that’s what happens every time that Nemesis makes a video and the 13 year-olds come out to defend their precious honor and then the trolls smell blood and mingle and it all just turns to hell, on what was known as one of the friendliest and well behaved MMO class forums.

Im sorry are we listening to the same commentary? Nemesis is always quick to insult and spew cringe worthy ego comments. He also has a very abrasive tone in most of his videos which just irritates a lot of people. Honestly i feel his tone reminds me more of a child than many of the insults provoked against him. Maybe thats just me?

Im pretty sure he continues to do a lot of these things because it gets him exposure and views. I personally could never bring myself to say such cringe worthy things and embarrass myself like that though. Props to him for having no shame in that department.

Point is, you cant really blame people for not properly listening to him. When often times it makes you want to drink a bottle of bleach and scrape out your eardrums with a rusty needle. Also along with his sometimes valid points you get a load of contradictory bullkitten which makes no sense or is just flat out incorrect, irrelevant or just a pointless bash the meta comment thrown in. So its difficult to take him seriously. “DPS uptime” anyone?

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Pelopidas.2140:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

It is true though that there are scrub players out there who hate on the class. So i dont find anything wrong showing these people that we dont suck like they think. I really dislike not seeing a meta necro build in metabattle, and im sure the devs have decided against buffing necromancer dps for reasons random whiners in forums don’t know (including me). And this has been discussed to death, its not the damage, its the content that doesnt fit our support options, which are also a bit lacking…(soft cc like chill-cripple, fear blinds, lots of vuln.)

Also @Lily while i agree with most of your points, using focus4 and wells is a pretty good burst i think.

@ZudetGambeous – Inb4ModBan: 80% of your comments are about how useless necro is, how he sucks at everything etc (remember when you were saying condi necro does like 3k dps…). And the funny thing is your trash talk gets corrected everytime yet you keep your kittenposting.

If the best you can do is reference my dps calculation from before the condition damage changes then I’m not too worried lol. I’ve yet to be corrected on anything, everything i’ve said is or was at the time true.

Except before the condi damage changes the necromancer’s condi DPS was higher than 3k then as well… So.. You being wrong now makes you less wrong then??? 3k is just from the bleeds. This didn’t include the burning, your base damage, the poison, torment and terror. I’m not saying the condi rotation before was fantastic. But it’s average was closer to 5 or 6k in sinisters.

Pelopidas.2140:

Also @Lily while i agree with most of your points, using focus4 and wells is a pretty good burst i think.

The focus’s burst becomes less effective in a group with multiple foes because it has four bounces and last I checked it checked for 4 targets flat, regardless if they’re allies or foes. I don’t think their burst is bad, its just slow when compared to other professions. Wells are great. I use power wells all the time.

spoj.9672:

Im sorry are we listening to the same commentary? Nemesis is always quick to insult and spew cringe worthy ego comments. He also has a very abrasive tone in most of his videos which just irritates a lot of people. Honestly i feel his tone reminds me more of a child than many of the insults provoked against him. Maybe thats just me?

Im pretty sure he continues to do a lot of these things because it gets him exposure and views. I personally could never bring myself to say such cringe worthy things and embarrass myself like that though. Props to him for having no shame in that department.

Point is, you cant really blame people for not properly listening to him. When often times it makes you want to drink a bottle of bleach and scrape out your eardrums with a rusty needle. Also along with his sometimes valid points you get a load of contradictory bullkitten which makes no sense or is just flat out incorrect, irrelevant or just a pointless bash the meta comment thrown in. So its difficult to take him seriously. “DPS uptime” anyone?

That is my main problem with him. He wants to be the messenger for the necro community to save us from the unjustified discrimination in pugs. He makes many valid points. Sure necro is not meta, because in optimal situations (which the meta is defined on) another class will be a better choice. But for 90% or more of the dungeon runs, this does not matter because

1. in an optimal run, the time lost is not that significant
2. in a non-optimal run (especially in pugs), the situation is rarely optimal so applying blindly the meta does not make sense.

Most of these facts are points that I believe we pretty much all agree on, and if the message could spread, that would be great.

But this message is diluted in a flow of insults and abrasive tone so much that its meaning is lost and all is left is pointless fights in forums and reddit. I do not think he helps the necromancers!

Dead.5829:

Lily.1935:

life blast is slow. Life blast’s damage is absolutely insane. it hits like a truck and keeps hitting again and again getting stronger and stronger each time it does thanks to spite. But because of this it tends to be a slow but strong projectile

If only the successive cast time was actually 1s for each blast. :’( That aftercast is a killer to the dps.

you can get about 2.5 life blasts off in the time it takes a warrior to use 100b as long as you’re on top of things. Its cast time really doesn’t cripple it all too much. It does when you’re trying to track close targets though. It has its uses.

Interestingly, the reaper’s scythe auto has higher DPS than life blast. At least its supposed to. Which is actually a frightening thought.

Lily.1935:

Interestingly, the reaper’s scythe auto has higher DPS than life blast. At least its supposed to. Which is actually a frightening thought.

I think you mean the best thought >:)

Dead.5829:

Lily.1935:

Interestingly, the reaper’s scythe auto has higher DPS than life blast. At least its supposed to. Which is actually a frightening thought.

I think you mean the best thought >:)

Oh, its frightening. Since its damage is back loaded too. And the final swing of the scythe hits 5 targets. Making it the strongest cleave in the game. Yeah… think about that. Than add reaper’s onslaught. Than add 100% crit chance… than add might+vuln per attack… Oh dear, that scythe is going to rip people to shreds.

Actually. It already does. I’ve played it in the beta and its awesome. Not as strong as gravedigger but gravedigger is the ultimate executioner ability.

Lily.1935:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Pelopidas.2140:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

All this posturing, kitten measuring and damage showing gets us what exactly?

Even if we are less behind the other classes dps than people think what does this gain us? We have no group utility and our damage is still behind, even if it isn’t REALLY far behind. None of this makes a group want to take a necro.

The best we can hope for is, we aren’t the worst by 100% we are only the worst by 10%, see guys, you should take us!

This doesn’t seem like something we should be celebrating to me.

(Hopefully the damage pressure in raids make us more valuable for needing less healing, keeping up dps pressure, and self buffing in chaotic phases)

It is true though that there are scrub players out there who hate on the class. So i dont find anything wrong showing these people that we dont suck like they think. I really dislike not seeing a meta necro build in metabattle, and im sure the devs have decided against buffing necromancer dps for reasons random whiners in forums don’t know (including me). And this has been discussed to death, its not the damage, its the content that doesnt fit our support options, which are also a bit lacking…(soft cc like chill-cripple, fear blinds, lots of vuln.)

Also @Lily while i agree with most of your points, using focus4 and wells is a pretty good burst i think.

@ZudetGambeous – Inb4ModBan: 80% of your comments are about how useless necro is, how he sucks at everything etc (remember when you were saying condi necro does like 3k dps…). And the funny thing is your trash talk gets corrected everytime yet you keep your kittenposting.

If the best you can do is reference my dps calculation from before the condition damage changes then I’m not too worried lol. I’ve yet to be corrected on anything, everything i’ve said is or was at the time true.

Except before the condi damage changes the necromancer’s condi DPS was higher than 3k then as well… So.. You being wrong now makes you less wrong then??? 3k is just from the bleeds. This didn’t include the burning, your base damage, the poison, torment and terror. I’m not saying the condi rotation before was fantastic. But it’s average was closer to 5 or 6k in sinisters.

Please show me where I said this? My calculations were correct for the time. Feel free to show me where I made a mistake in my calculations but quoting my entire post.

Good luck

spoj.9672:

Im impressed nemesis actually went and did a solo. Kudos for that. I was enjoying the video until the commentary started. :<

It was similar for me actually. I didn’t see the whole thing, just skipped forward a couple of times. So at first I thought, hey Nemesis is doing a solo with staff and mad king runes, that’s nice… skip… rants about elitist exploiters. lol

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

Can we please stop posting things related to this person? The Necromancer community is widely known for being compassionate and willing to teach those who are new to the profession. This guy is just a massive flamebait and anything with him involved turns in to a troll/rantfest. The only people who think what he says is valid are the ones who don’t ask questions about what he’s saying/doing.

Be constructive. There’s enough whining within the Necro forums as is due to our position among the other professions.

This.

Listen, Nemesis is doing what he thinks is best for the community, we can all agree with that. He also did a lot of good work on us early in the game’s time. Unfortunately, since then it has become his personal vendetta to be “Nemesis vs all those morons who don’t agree with Nemesis” in all situations. The way he tries to get his point across is needlessly inflammatory, and at this point he isn’t providing anything to the community.

His videos at this point are on par with climate change deniers or creationists releasing “science” to “support” their opinions. His complete refusal to accept what our issues are right now serve only to hold us back by avoiding the actual source of our problems (and therein denying the changes we need) and instead blaming them on the “berserker meta” or people just not following his most recent build.

Bhawb.7408:

His videos at this point are on par with climate change deniers or creationists releasing “science” to “support” their opinions. His complete refusal to accept what our issues are right now serve only to hold us back by avoiding the actual source of our problems (and therein denying the changes we need) and instead blaming them on the “berserker meta” or people just not following his most recent build.

I do not think he denies our issues. He actually has videos explaining the problem with necromancer’s balance (for example the lack of scaling defenses).

His main problem with the “berserker meta” is not the berserker meta as such but those who blindly follows the metabattle “rules” without understanding the logic behind them or without acknowledging they are not good enough players to adhere to the “meta”.

He knows necro does less DPS than other classes “in ideal conditions” and has less (=almost none) direct support. But he also knows that the lower DPS comes with higher sustain (though with the problem of lack of active/scalable defense) which is why necro is pug-friendly and can out-DPS other classes if not in ideal situation.

Again, I just think he insults so much everyone we could forget what is his message.

spoj.9672:

Im sorry are we listening to the same commentary? Nemesis is always quick to insult and spew cringe worthy ego comments. He also has a very abrasive tone in most of his videos which just irritates a lot of people. Honestly i feel his tone reminds me more of a child than many of the insults provoked against him. Maybe thats just me?

It’s not just you. I think he’s on the money about a few points and I particularly appreciate his attempts to be analytical when making those points, but I desperately wish he would cut out the trolling. While it certainly generates exposure, the expose he gets isn’t especially helpful to the community overall. You catch more flies with money than with battery acid, after all.

SpellOfIniquity.1780:

This guy is just a massive flamebait and anything with him involved turns in to a troll/rantfest.

The irony in this is that whenever someone disagrees with Nemesis, he accuses them of being trolls.

Silverkey.2078:

spoj.9672:

Im sorry are we listening to the same commentary? Nemesis is always quick to insult and spew cringe worthy ego comments. He also has a very abrasive tone in most of his videos which just irritates a lot of people. Honestly i feel his tone reminds me more of a child than many of the insults provoked against him. Maybe thats just me?

Im pretty sure he continues to do a lot of these things because it gets him exposure and views. I personally could never bring myself to say such cringe worthy things and embarrass myself like that though. Props to him for having no shame in that department.

Point is, you cant really blame people for not properly listening to him. When often times it makes you want to drink a bottle of bleach and scrape out your eardrums with a rusty needle. Also along with his sometimes valid points you get a load of contradictory bullkitten which makes no sense or is just flat out incorrect, irrelevant or just a pointless bash the meta comment thrown in. So its difficult to take him seriously. “DPS uptime” anyone?

That is my main problem with him. He wants to be the messenger for the necro community to save us from the unjustified discrimination in pugs. He makes many valid points. Sure necro is not meta, because in optimal situations (which the meta is defined on) another class will be a better choice. But for 90% or more of the dungeon runs, this does not matter because

1. in an optimal run, the time lost is not that significant
2. in a non-optimal run (especially in pugs), the situation is rarely optimal so applying blindly the meta does not make sense.

Most of these facts are points that I believe we pretty much all agree on, and if the message could spread, that would be great.

But this message is diluted in a flow of insults and abrasive tone so much that its meaning is lost and all is left is pointless fights in forums and reddit. I do not think he helps the necromancers!

Touché! That’s it! I also would prefer if he kept his earlier professional/impersonal tone, but even then he was bashed and insulted in the comments section by the same who now criticize him for his recent tone. According to what he said recently he is using this tone to set up for part 2 of his meta series, which according to different sources who are in on it, will be bombastic.

Silverkey.2078:

Bhawb.7408:

His videos at this point are on par with climate change deniers or creationists releasing “science” to “support” their opinions. His complete refusal to accept what our issues are right now serve only to hold us back by avoiding the actual source of our problems (and therein denying the changes we need) and instead blaming them on the “berserker meta” or people just not following his most recent build.

I do not think he denies our issues. He actually has videos explaining the problem with necromancer’s balance (for example the lack of scaling defenses).

His main problem with the “berserker meta” is not the berserker meta as such but those who blindly follows the metabattle “rules” without understanding the logic behind them or without acknowledging they are not good enough players to adhere to the “meta”.

He knows necro does less DPS than other classes “in ideal conditions” and has less (=almost none) direct support. But he also knows that the lower DPS comes with higher sustain (though with the problem of lack of active/scalable defense) which is why necro is pug-friendly and can out-DPS other classes if not in ideal situation.

Again, I just think he insults so much everyone we could forget what is his message.

This, this is so true, please can we all agree to that.

@Zudet Also, there you go:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Reasons-the-Necromancer-is-bottom-tier/first#post5279012