Guild Wars 2

Firstly, Im not complaining about what theyre adding. I am super excited for literally everything they are adding in HoT, including the specializations and access to new weapons.

However

Im worried that they Anet will prioritize these new “halves” of our classes if you will, without buffing/fixing our current classes and skills. As excited as I am for specialized GS necro, I dont want that to be potentially the only option available to us pve, and thats even if it will be a good pve weapon/specialization (which frankly, I doubt you could have a good dps necro on gs that doesnt feel like a weird deathshrouded warrior).

I enjoy regular plain old necro- and I want it to be fixed for pve and not left behind in the dust!

tboneking.2531:

I enjoy regular plain old necro- and I want it to be fixed for pve and not left behind in the dust!

but necro is ALREADY left behind and not fixed at all. just hope it doesnt get even worse

Current Necro will never be good at PvE without major additions… oh wait that’s what a specialization is :P

Dont get sassy with me! The way I understood it- specializations seem like they are almost going to be an entirely new class that you have access to. I would assume that having access to new weapons traits and skills comes at the cost of losing access to our previous stuff. That would be “fixing” necro the same way you would be “enhancing” your macbook by adding a windows partition. It would just be a different thing all together.

Taking new spec is a nobrainer for me as a PvE guy. Condi necro is useless and power necro is weak and boring (1111111111 spam forevah). They cannot make necros worst than they are now so new spec = upgrade even If I don’t know what would that new spec be.

tboneking.2531:

Dont get sassy with me! The way I understood it- specializations seem like they are almost going to be an entirely new class that you have access to. I would assume that having access to new weapons traits and skills comes at the cost of losing access to our previous stuff. That would be “fixing” necro the same way you would be “enhancing” your macbook by adding a windows partition. It would just be a different thing all together.

You dont lose everything. The new stuff replaces old stuff. But its not like theres enough new stuff to change every aspect of the class.

tboneking.2531:

Dont get sassy with me! The way I understood it- specializations seem like they are almost going to be an entirely new class that you have access to. I would assume that having access to new weapons traits and skills comes at the cost of losing access to our previous stuff. That would be “fixing” necro the same way you would be “enhancing” your macbook by adding a windows partition. It would just be a different thing all together.

The specializations will essentially be enhancements to the class. While you will lose access to some of the base class’ mechanics, by the time they have enough specializations to even worry about the base profession being neglected, there will be so many options that I doubt anyone would stick with the base profession.

Bhawb.7408:

The specializations will essentially be enhancements to the class. While you will lose access to some of the base class’ mechanics, by the time they have enough specializations to even worry about the base profession being neglected, there will be so many options that I doubt anyone would stick with the base profession.

Did they say anything about more specs or are you just pulling this out of your kitten
Considering Anets glacial pace, it may very well stay at 1 specialisation+default nec for a very long time.

I agree with bone king, and hope that SOMEDAY theyll remember actually fixing the kittening standard necro. it’s also likely that the new spec is going to have most of the issues the standard necro has. depends on how well the PvE content is made.

They have specifically said they will add more specializations over time, and they won’t be necessarily limited to expansion packs. That doesn’t mean it will happen soon, but it will happen.

RashanDale, I think you’re exaggerating the degree of which Necros are “broken” and “left behind”. Based on everything I’ve seen and heard for over a year, even the complaints, Necros have always been no less than on the precipice of the game mode people complain about. If they had cleave and maybe 1 party buff thing, they’d probably be fine in PvE (though still potentially difficult because of a lack of block/evade/invuln for some one-shot mechanics, though one-shot mechanics that you have to dodge are bland PvE, in my opinion). Everything I’ve seen about sPvP shows that some people have found ways to use them, or they require heavy teamplay to get “right”, but they are on the cusp of having a really strong niche. In WvW I’ve seen nothing but them balling outrageous in ZvZ, roaming, sieges (the AoE/wells on walls is strong), etc.

I think it’s a bit early to start getting nervous about unique interpretations on what the specializations will entail. If GS is the only option available to optimally do speed-runs in PvE, it’ll probably be because it’s the Necro cleave option. It’d be rainbows if every class could run with their Power or Condi spec (or their Support spec with heals/condi removal/etc., wouldn’t that be a treat!) in a speedrun and everyone would be happy to see them in whatever spec in a pug, but based on my MMO experience, that’s a pipe dream. If anything, the biggest problem is that completion of content isn’t what people care about as much as doing the content as quickly as possible, so even though you can easily do every single dungeon in the game as any Necro build you want, people seem to see Necro and think “oof, he’s really going to drag us down”.

I’m not sure what the best answer is, but odds are Specializations aren’t going to open up multiple viable builds in a speed-run PvE environment. I just don’t see that happening unless they accept damage meters as a function of the game and attempt to balance PvE damage of all classes as a specific action item.

If that never happens, make some friends and enjoy the content without worrying about pugs. I ran all of the dungeons as a power necro with my girlfriend on her support guardian. We didn’t run them as fast, but it was a treat to have all of the support condi removal/healing that she brought to the table.

I raised this exact point in the CDI thread for Rangers. I was worried then just like I am now where ANet will introduce new weapons to the class, but where other classes that are doing great will get new weapons to add fun and exciting diversity to their class, the Ranger would be stuck with a weapon designed solely to fill the deficiencies the class currently faces.

The same argument can be made for Necromancers. I really hope ANet will do something to bring all of the weaker classes up to par before the expansion hits so they all can look forward to new and diverse ways to play as opposed to nothing more than a lazy attempt to fix the shortcomings of the class that should have been resolved 2 years ago.

Atherakhia.4086:

I raised this exact point in the CDI thread for Rangers. I was worried then just like I am now where ANet will introduce new weapons to the class, but where other classes that are doing great will get new weapons to add fun and exciting diversity to their class, the Ranger would be stuck with a weapon designed solely to fill the deficiencies the class currently faces.

The same argument can be made for Necromancers. I really hope ANet will do something to bring all of the weaker classes up to par before the expansion hits so they all can look forward to new and diverse ways to play as opposed to nothing more than a lazy attempt to fix the shortcomings of the class that should have been resolved 2 years ago.

Alternatively, the new weapons for classes that are already “optimal” in various aspects of the game will add nothing, and those classes will complain that they aren’t getting much out of specializing.

It’s easy to paint a sad picture of the potential future for <insert favorite class here>, but that doesn’t mean every other class is skipping through fields of flowers with changes. Everyone always finds something to complain about.

I’m just excited at the prospect of exploring something new in GW2.

I agree that it’s easy to complain about something we know nothing about. And I agree with you that it’s possible that Thieves will find no joy in using their rifle. I find it considerably less likely to the scenario I painted, but it’s possible.

Still, it’s important to air these issues and discuss them because that’s how things change. In theory anyway. Necromancer issues in PvE aren’t exactly new and they’ve gone unheard for 2 years now.

Hopefully the game has a long and thurough beta test phase.

I don’t think the Necromancer PvE issues have gone unheard. I guarantee ANet has heard them. It’s a matter of addressing them that’s an issue, particularly due to their affect on sPvP/WvW. Also, it’s difficult to give Necromancer issues in PvE a high priority when it’s easy to see that Necromancers can very easily complete almost, if not all of the content in the game, including high-end Fractals. Do they really give high priority to trying to tweak it so Necros can perform in speedruns when they otherwise can do everything else in PvE, as well as perform pretty well in sPvP and very well in WvW?

It’s really slippery. Imagine a different scenario, where Necros are always taken in PvE speedruns, they do really well in sPvP top tier teams, and they can’t solo roam in WvW to save their lives. Their ability to escape would be abysmal and they wouldn’t be able to 1v1 really at all. I could come on and say “Ummm, hi, Necros in solo roaming WvW are in a bad way, could we fix them by doing X, Y, and Z?”.

What would the answer be? I’d imagine something along the lines of “ANet doesn’t and shouldn’t balance classes based on WvW nor 1v1.” If that’s the same response you think it would receive, then it may also be the case that many others thing “ANet doesn’t and shouldn’t balance classes based on speedrunning PvE content.”.

And as someone else mentioned (EDIT – It was you in another thread. Cheers.), part of the issue is the community. People hear Necros are “bad” somewhere, anywhere, and then they decline/kick any Necros that look for a group. Is that the Necro’s fault? How do you fix that? Do you just have to make them super good so it swings the community the other way? If you do that, does it just throw another class under the bus? (EDIT – But as you also mention, it IS important for each class to try to bring something uniquely advantageous instead of making it feel like “Oh, a Necro, if we only had X they could do Y better”).

Anyway, it IS important to air issues, but I don’t think there’s enough information really to even discuss, since it’s all just arguing over speculation. Then again, if ANet does regularly read the boards and sees the concerns people have, it might cause them to take another look and ensure they are following the path they want to follow. In that case, it isn’t all bad for sure, as long as the issues aren’t aired in an ultra negative way (which I don’t think you’ve done).

Gimme that sword NOW !!!!!!!

As I’ve said in other threads, I haven’t been playing a Necro very long. Perhaps 2 months now with only about half that time with it as my sole main. So my opinions on some of this may be a bit naive so I’ll get that out of the way right now.

Well lets talk about WvW and PvP for a moment. In WvW the Necromancer is clearly part of the meta. But what is it really providing to the meta? If Wells did nothing but damage, would Necromancers still be in the meta? Yes. What if wells did nothing but damage but were given to another class? Would we still have Necromancers in the meta? Probably not. And with PvP, despite the Necromancer getting rave reviews about its overall strength, what is the least represented class in PvP? The Necromancer. How many were in the last qualifier? I believe it was just Nos?

This, in my opinion (and possibly a naïve one at that), isn’t the sign of a healthy class. Honestly speaking, it looks like a lot of the problems the class has in PvE are relevant in WvW and PvP as well. Would improving group utility, providing a slight boost to mobility, or improving sustained damage for the class remove another from the meta in WvW? Nope. What about in PvP? At most it would remove the need for a second or third Ele or Engi, but it wouldn’t remove either from the meta.

Like I said, I’m new and naïve, but I honestly don’t feel like the class is at the point where all its problems can be resolved with number crunching and cooldown adjustments. I’m not saying that’s your opinion too or anything. I’m just saying that a lot of the PvE issues are relevant to the WvW and PvP issues as well.

Atherakhia.4086:

As I’ve said in other threads, I haven’t been playing a Necro very long. Perhaps 2 months now with only about half that time with it as my sole main. So my opinions on some of this may be a bit naive so I’ll get that out of the way right now.

Well lets talk about WvW and PvP for a moment. In WvW the Necromancer is clearly part of the meta. But what is it really providing to the meta? If Wells did nothing but damage, would Necromancers still be in the meta? Yes. What if wells did nothing but damage but were given to another class? Would we still have Necromancers in the meta? Probably not. And with PvP, despite the Necromancer getting rave reviews about its overall strength, what is the least represented class in PvP? The Necromancer. How many were in the last qualifier? I believe it was just Nos?

This, in my opinion (and possibly a naïve one at that), isn’t the sign of a healthy class. Honestly speaking, it looks like a lot of the problems the class has in PvE are relevant in WvW and PvP as well. Would improving group utility, providing a slight boost to mobility, or improving sustained damage for the class remove another from the meta in WvW? Nope. What about in PvP? At most it would remove the need for a second or third Ele or Engi, but it wouldn’t remove either from the meta.

Like I said, I’m new and naïve, but I honestly don’t feel like the class is at the point where all its problems can be resolved with number crunching and cooldown adjustments. I’m not saying that’s your opinion too or anything. I’m just saying that a lot of the PvE issues are relevant to the WvW and PvP issues as well.

This really gets to the heart of the issue imo. Necros are clearly the worst class in pve, and despite the common thought aren’t amazing in other gametypes. In pvp necros have 1 or 2 good players, and only 1 good build (a build which has severe setbacks and problems). In wvw necros are taken because of 2 wells, plague and spectral wall. If you ignored utilities, and just looked at base weapon skills necros wouldn’t be taken in wvw.

The class suffers from having the worst overall traits, little to know group support, lack of useful combos, lack of burst damage, and lack of cc avoidance. Just looking at that should tell you Necros need some buffs. Compare to any other class and you will see significantly less weaknessrs. For instance, mesmers have little condition removal and few good combos, but that is their only significant weakness.

Necros would probably still be in the meta in WvW even without wells due to Spectral Wall, CPC (yes, that’s actually a decent skill in zerg combat), and nigh immortality from all the life force coming in from deaths. There’s a reason why Eles are actually not used for their damage in the GWEN meta, even though it’s higher than a Necros. It’s because Necros can gear more offesively and still not die.

I suspect dps and survivability will be approximately equal to the base job. Specializations will crimp one thing while enabling another.

Maybe at last Necro will have a true Warrior build. My guess is that specializations will help professions masquerade as another profession. You play Necro but only zerker war is desired for a dungeon; specialize and you are a pseudo – war.

Death-tank, Dreadlord, Dark Knight, Face-hugger, whatever.

Adding something we don’t already have is really close to a melee condition weapon lol rather than power cleave which it seem they want daggers to focus on as well as siphon…

honestly, if spear is the other option for the weapon choice i’ll be going for that. wouldn’t that be awesome?

Spears are not being added. It was confirmed in several interviews that they will remain underwater only and that they were only used for artistic effect in the trailer.