Guild Wars 2

I would be willing to bet my hat that it will show up in the two places the mesmers and thieves have the most complaints, which would be sceptor and pistol MH. Having played both classes in condition builds, I can tell you thief is boring with conditions and I wouldn’t be surprised to see it show up on one of the offhand 4 skills with pistol main, or alternatively with focus on the mesmer.

Sounds like rupture from LOL, which is pretty cool, but I will admist I am scared if it is going to be given to sword/dagger thieves.

Gnat.9405:

We can drop entire mobile zergs with a well placed epidemic depending on how potent this condition is.

Assuming it is a normal condition. It could be like daze/stun/the guardian blinding blade thing, and not spread on epidemic.

Anyone else read that tainted shackles hits nearby enemies? Plural? Sounds like you’re hitting a lot of enemies with this and possibly other conditions in an area. Sounds really fun to combine with spectral walk or flesh wurm too, especially against mobs who’d chase or melee fighters.

I hope Torment scales heavily with condition damage.

Sad Rabbit.9174:

I hope Torment scales heavily with condition damage.

Oh I hope it is a hybrid skill..
Anything that gets boosted from power AND cond dmg at the same time(in small amounts of course)

Apparently it scales in intensity, as stated in an spvp thread on torment.

Movement damage is exactly what I (and some others) called and asked for in the big long suggestion thread on this topic. Though I have a feeling mesmers will be able to do it better

With any luck, DS5 won’t be our only source.

Burn is good even on power builds. Torment will likely work best for condition builds only, but more conditions is always good.

Tainted shackles (DS#5) is a bit of mystery, doesnt really say much, aside from afflicted with conditions (what conditions?) and controlled (how?).

Honestly as long as my build remains as viable as it is, or becomes more viable ill be happy with these updates, but we will see, it will probably end up that I have to rework my whole build, get new armor and new ascended pieces because the build I run is kitten. But pm me a week after for a response folks! :P

This will be fun!

1. Torment the enemy
2. Put down wells behind the enemy
3. Fear the enemy with terror trait
4. Laugh at the body of the enemy!

Great combo

To be honest, the FIRST thing that popped into my mind when I read “Tainted Shackles” was the Guardian’s GS pull. I would not be surprised at all to see this be a similar AoE pull (control effect?) that applies Torment. (I.e. enemies are fleeing, you pull them back to you, apply Torment so if they insist on running again they take damage.) In the same way as Binding Blade, you could opt NOT to trigger the pull, which would then stack conditions on the shackled enemies, or continually transfer conditions until the skill wore off.

Either way, I’d love it for my Vampiric Well Bomber.

Very very very curious.
BUT was a good opportunity for something unique for necro and we have a new condition shared with mersmers and thieves…
Now what i expect is to be “holded” (let me use this word pls) to the ground and spiked as hell from BS/HS and gs mesmer.
Hope in a good balance and not in a fail.

Homonavn.6348:

This will be fun!

1. Torment the enemy
2. Put down wells behind the enemy
3. Fear the enemy with terror trait
4. Laugh at the body of the enemy!

Great combo

That’s an ideal setup but most likely this condition will be “balanced” like confusion because of all the crys and tears that will follow the patch. Then in a pvp setup, torment will do (at maxed condition damage) 150dps on not moving foe and 300dps on moving foe. This probably won’t affect teleport skills and only walk/running.

Well… Sadly, i don’t see torment helping Necromancer at all. Seeing that thief will have it (actually leveling a thief and amazed by how easy it is to condition lock almost anything in PvE, yeah i’m only level 20 and with D/D you can bleed, cripple, poison, weakened, confuse, blind… almost at will) is already making me laughing.

I’m more interested in the trait change that they don’t talk about, because annoucing 2 new conditions for a class that is already Ok condition wise while not really Ok power wise it’s like giving water to someone that live on a boat and dream to step on earth.

PS.: I hope I’ll be wrong but do you think that we will have a DS5 on underwater DS to? If not, I’ll probably laugh to death (shroud)!

@mrmadhaze : I’m expecting the same things.

osif.8673:

I would just like to hop in here and maybe quell the amount of paranoid necros out there. As it is right now, the only skill known to cause Torment is DS #5… we don’t know what other skills have access to this condition in any of the classes (necro, Mesmer, or thief).

Also, we don’t know how this condition works. Do teleports cause instant increased damage of Torment based on how far the character travels? Is it only movement skills like RTL and Rush that will cause more damage of Torment than just running? Is Torment capped to do increased damage based on max run speed? Does it hurt people with swiftness more? Does it hurt crippled people less?

My point is, we have no idea how Torment will cause increased damage beyond it will hurt more while moving. While mesmers and thieves will have Torment, the condition could effect them much more than other classes if it is applied to them as well. Maybe wait until the 25th to see the effects of Torment rather than making paranoid speculations.
I think necros are getting a well deserved buff in this upcoming patch, with Torment and access to burning now too. Pretty powerful imo.

One more thing: How many condi Mesmer and thieves do you see now-a-days? Food for thought.

none, because thief builds in wvw flip at the turn of the meta. the second conditions for thieves become cool again, 90% of thieves in world vs world will run this build. i’m not exaggerating. i actually tested this theory: when one of my thief player guildies started using dagger pistol i asked him why, he explained it, i popped into EB and every thief i came across was running it.
i’m convinced the majority of thief players are skritt behind their keyboards.

I have np with Mesmers getting Torment tbh (Specially after Confussion Nerf) but Thieves.. wtf Seriously ? A class so burst/melee heavy gets a Condition that hurts ppl trying to get away or catch up with thief. This is on paper plain wrong, Il wait 5days and see but sounds broken now.

All other things looks & Sounds promising but ofc have to wait and see what all these changes to Traits will be about. The DS do more dmg up close most likely be one.

I was also wondering why thieves were getting this :/

By the way i think this new condition could be similar to :

- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Weaken_Knees
- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Binding_Chains
- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Shameful_Fear
- http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Winter%27s_Embrace

That’s neat and all but what about the minion AI? Really hoping to see some significant changes in that department. You shouldn’t add new elements to a class until you’ve sorted out the basics.

Well, I don’t belive Anet will give the awesomeness so I think the DS #5 will have an aweful long cd, so a theif can just spec correct for cleancing by using stealth and get back into business as usual.

Realist = 90%, Hope = 10%

Nemesis approves…

Doesn’t solve some of our attrition problems, doesn’t solve the problem of being ganked all the time with no escape because of we are the only class that can’t escape chain CC…

BUT !…

Definitely solves the problem that i have kept trying to showcase every time i could. I even brought this subject up a few times in the podcasts i was invited to.
There are some classes that because of the mobility they possess… they fight you and win… or fight you, don’t win and run away, with absolutely no way of countering that.

Finaaaaaally… no more “you either lose, or you get a chance to lose again in a few moments”.

Nemesis thanks you ArenaNet developers… Nemesis also refers to himself in the 3rd person for some reason, maybe it’s excitement ?…

I believe it was Jon Peters that stated a while back that he wanted DS to be more friendly with condition specs (as necromancers were complaining that it was overly power friendly), so the addition of the new condition to DS makes sense. I hope that it’s powerful enough to justify its 40(+) second cooldown (remember, anet likes the skills to be ordered by cooldown).

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

In a power build what’s the fastest way to DPS someone down ?… What does the most damage ?…

Ok… can’t that be kited to negate all damage ?…

Ok… not anymore… ok ? ok

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

I don’t know about that. With the right timing, torment and wells willl be insane! You either take full well damage with little damage from torment, or run away from well which will ultimatly increase torment ticks damage. Win-win scenario imo.

Nemesis.8593:

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

In a power build what’s the fastest way to DPS someone down ?… What does the most damage ?…

Ok… can’t that be kited to negate all damage ?…

Ok… not anymore… ok ? ok

Lol, this answer is both truth and hilarious. love ya Nemesis <3

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Tainted shackles into wells, burn the suckers and then torment to keep them from running away while you drop kick them with your dagger.

Condition necros though just got ridiculous. Torment combined with Terror = so freaking scary

Bas.7406:

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Tainted shackles into wells, burn the suckers and then torment to keep them from running away while you drop kick them with your dagger.

Condition necros though just got ridiculous. Torment combined with Terror = so freaking scary

We can still be out-attritioned easily by some classes, and we are still the easiest target to get focused…

It’s a great start though…

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Well the skill applies the new condition but we don’t know what else it does.

If condition builds are boring and dull then isn’t that a good reason to give them something to get excited about?

Beside all that, it’s probable that this condition doesn’t require a lot of condition damage to be good (see burning). Which means those zerker/valkyrie thieves might get similar mileage out of it as my full rabid necro.

All I read was… we are giving mesmers and thieves a way to make you stay in place or die to running away damage. Good stuff. But what it has to do with necros? I mean mesmers already have the most unique condition in the game… now they get access to another pretty sparce condition. And like thives need a buff -_-… forget it. More necro nerfs is what I read.

Bas.7406:

Tainted shackles into wells, burn the suckers and then torment to keep them from running away while you drop kick them with your dagger.

Condition necros though just got ridiculous. Torment combined with Terror = so freaking scary

Without adequate condition damage to boost the skill ( assuming it does indeed scale on condition alone ) they’re just going to take the piddly amount of damage and dodge out like they always have. Seems like you’d suffer a pretty major damage loss by switching into shroud to drop the shackles instead of just dagger spamming.

I can’t help but be disappointed in them making deathshroud even more schizophrenic. A class mechanic as important as it really ought to synergize better. Of course, this is all me assuming that they’re going to make it scale exclusively on condition damage.

Nemesis.8593:

Bas.7406:

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Tainted shackles into wells, burn the suckers and then torment to keep them from running away while you drop kick them with your dagger.

Condition necros though just got ridiculous. Torment combined with Terror = so freaking scary

We can still be out-attritioned easily by some classes, and we are still the easiest target to get focused…

It’s a great start though…

That’s why i hope in a vampiric fix, a lot of stun breaks and a better Life Force manage (and tbh also in a better axe range. Be an attrition class with poor range.. meh).
That’s we need for a better attrition without buffs/mobility etc

Nemesis.8593:

Bas.7406:

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Tainted shackles into wells, burn the suckers and then torment to keep them from running away while you drop kick them with your dagger.

Condition necros though just got ridiculous. Torment combined with Terror = so freaking scary

We can still be out-attritioned easily by some classes, and we are still the easiest target to get focused…

It’s a great start though…

Well I for one am glad we have players like you who play on our test server to get these facts out, thank you!

This reminds me of a Ranger skill that I used to love in RIFT. It was called Barbed Shot, on a rather low CD. You’d host the target and every time they took a step they took about 200 damage. It was highly effective in killing targets that were running away with low HP but RIFT was horribly unbalanced anyway at that time.

I don’t agree that giving it to thieves an Mesmers is a good idea. Condi thieves are one in a million, fine, but Condi Mesmers can be very lethal because I used to play one and it is deadly in the right hands.

I would really love to see the damage formula for this and I hope it scales differently for Necro’s than the other two professions. This may be an utter disaster honestly.

Bas.7406:

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Tainted shackles into wells, burn the suckers and then torment to keep them from running away while you drop kick them with your dagger.

Condition necros though just got ridiculous. Torment combined with Terror = so freaking scary

It depends on the numbers.

It makes me wonder also how this will work with chill builds. My Terror/Chill hybrid may be even more amazing or it could just make the chill part completely worthless. It does give me an idea though: Torment them while chill isn’t on them, then chill them while torment is on CD. Either way, running away either isn’t a good idea or impossible…. in theory.

Bas.7406:

Homonavn.6348:

Ok, i have kind of changed my mind here… Didnt they say this new skill would have to work for every build?

How can this possible work for a power build? Just another patch for the boring, dull condition build.. Sigh

Tainted shackles into wells, burn the suckers and then torment to keep them from running away while you drop kick them with your dagger.

Condition necros though just got ridiculous. Torment combined with Terror = so freaking scary

Looking forward to the podcast, tonight, right?

Ravezaar.4951:

I have np with Mesmers getting Torment tbh (Specially after Confussion Nerf) but Thieves.. wtf Seriously ? A class so burst/melee heavy gets a Condition that hurts ppl trying to get away or catch up with thief. This is on paper plain wrong, Il wait 5days and see but sounds broken now.

All other things looks & Sounds promising but ofc have to wait and see what all these changes to Traits will be about. The DS do more dmg up close most likely be one.

Exactly.

This makes a fight with a thief even worse for necros. The thief steals from you, applies Torment, then fears you for 3 or more seconds. Way to go, ArenaNet. They didn’t learn the first time around when Fear was to be a necro-only skill. Now they throw Torment on top of it, giving a movement-punishing skill to the highest mobility profession who applies the most pressure on opponents to remain mobile in combat themselves. Seriously?!?! And they call this “balanced”?

/facepalm

I see one way of salvaging the “balance”, though. Make our DS#5 Tainted Shackles an instant cast immune to control effects (just like Doom). We get hit with a Fear/Torment combo, we DS, and pop Tainted Shackles. Now the thief pursuing us suffers Torment, as well. The thief then has to make cost : benefit choices; pursue us and take damage, blow condition removal, or disengage.

Making Tainted Shackles instant cast is appropriate beyond being a one-trick-pony counter to a thief’s Fear/Torment combo. If it will indeed inflict a form of control on nearby enemies, then being instant cast makes perfect sense.

We’re supposed to be this low-mobility, facetanking, attrition class with no disengage mechanic, right? Fine, we accept we’re not going to be able to escape from a fight once started. All we want is the ability to prevent our opponents from escaping, as well, should they be foolish enough to wander too close to us. You don’t accomplish that with some long-casting, high-telegraphing animation for a control skill. You make it instant cast so an opponent is caught by surprise.

We should not be doubly punished with both low mobility AND skills with long cast times that telegraph themselves to our enemies. Making Tainted Shackles instant cast is not OP, unfair, nor unbalanced with regards to other professions. The necromancer, as stated by the devs, is supposed to be the profession difficult to escape from once engaged and which WILL kill you if you remain too long in their control zone.

Since they tout mobility, movement, and positioning as core to their combat system, then the counter to a necro should be to use proper positioning to keep your distance to begin with. The counter should NOT be “Oh, look! A necro is winding up to cast a skill. Quick! Dodge, blink, teleport, or leap away.” The opponent had their chance to “counter” by not getting within our kill zone to begin with. If they make the mistake of crossing into that zone, too bad, so sad for them.

From a lore perspective, this is wholly appropriate, as well. I can agree with the concept that – as an attrition class and a profession dedicated to dark arts, necromancy, et al. – that we can be thought of as slowly but inexorably grinding our opponents down much the same way that death eventually claims everything in the end; even if it takes a long time. However, death can also come swiftly and completely unexpected, taking an opponent by surprise.

Throwing us a bone by making Tainted Shackles instant cast does not break with our lore, the flavor of the profession, or our intended combat style. Especially as it synergizes well with our more conventional attrition style. It becomes, “SURPRISE! You just got shackled and aren’t going anywhere. Now I begin the process of slowly grinding you to dust.”

Sadly, that’s not how it plays out. Our long casts give enemies plenty of time to use their multiple escape options to avoid us; already one of the slowest and most easily avoided professions. I do hope they consider making Tainted Shackles instant cast.

Bad idea giving Torment to thieves, but it’s obviously too late to do anything about it. Short of a quick correction such as suggested above or some other solution, it will be back to the drawing board yet again to balance what is going to become the latest imbalance after the 25th.

My goodness some of you guys are such pessimists. Anet has been the most vocal about Necros for this upcoming patch with buffs (who knows, there could even be more buffs that they haven’t mentioned yet!) with access to burning, Torment, DS #5… and you still find something to complain about. So quick to complain about things that aren’t even out yet.

osif.8673:

My goodness some of you guys are such pessimists. Anet has been the most vocal about Necros for this upcoming patch with buffs (who knows, there could even be more buffs that they haven’t mentioned yet!) with access to burning, Torment, DS #5… and you still find something to complain about. So quick to complain about things that aren’t even out yet.

You are in the Necro forum m8, “if you dont complain you aint a Necro” our motto after 10months.

And I just said giving Torment to Thieves is broken, I like it for us. Iam still hopefull for 25th, specially with DS and Trait Revamps.

osif.8673:

My goodness some of you guys are such pessimists. Anet has been the most vocal about Necros for this upcoming patch with buffs (who knows, there could even be more buffs that they haven’t mentioned yet!) with access to burning, Torment, DS #5… and you still find something to complain about. So quick to complain about things that aren’t even out yet.

None of these do much for power/tanky/support builds. The only tidbit of interesting info I’ve seen so far is Life Blast doing more damage to closer targets. Besides that… not much.

Thief condition builds needed a lot of help, and I think Torment will be perfect for them, and will allow Thief condition builds to pressure opposing players very effectively. We don’t know how it will be applied in their case, but I am hoping it is on Pistol mainhand, and maybe Unload, but not on Dagger or Sword mainhand or Dagger or Pistol offhand.

Draehl—totally agree. I’m really hoping that power necros get a little love (cleave? trait shuffling?).

Hum, finally some love to necros? Thank you anet. Still, ill w8 to watch this.

osif.8673:

My goodness some of you guys are such pessimists. Anet has been the most vocal about Necros for this upcoming patch with buffs (who knows, there could even be more buffs that they haven’t mentioned yet!) with access to burning, Torment, DS #5… and you still find something to complain about. So quick to complain about things that aren’t even out yet.

Maybe because we’ve played the profession long enough (2,600 hours here) to have a fairly decent grasp of both its mechanics as well as how it fairs when facing other classes. Combined with the relative lack of balancing while ignoring glaring bugs for the past 10 months, there’s a precedent established that should make the level of pessimism come as no surprise.

That said, we can look beyond the surface pessimism at the sub-text. We’re passionate about the profession. We want to see it do well. We love our necros. Aside from a few hours dabbling with a thief and engi just to see how they work, it’s all I’ve played since launch. But it has been an uphill battle for this profession. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as I think overcoming the profession’s short-comings and making it work through determination and perseverance results in a very dedicated, loyal, and skilled group of players.

We’ve paid our dues, though, and it’s high time to allow necros to reach their full potential (which this profession has tons of, but has been held back from achieving due to the issues that have plagued us from day one and which the devs have been glacially slow in correcting.).

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

This makes a fight with a thief even worse for necros. The thief steals from you, applies Torment, then fears you for 3 or more seconds. Way to go, ArenaNet. They didn’t learn the first time around when Fear was to be a necro-only skill. Now they throw Torment on top of it, giving a movement-punishing skill to the highest mobility profession who applies the most pressure on opponents to remain mobile in combat themselves. Seriously?!?! And they call this “balanced”?

If the Thief is stacking condition damage, he’s not going to be much of a threat to the Necromancer, who can transfer the conditions or otherwise clear them much more easily than the Thief can.

If the Thief isn’t stacking condition damage, his Torment stacks are going to be largely ignorable, just like any bleed stacks they apply now.

I hope Tainted Shackles deal burst damage on teleports.

And if that new condition can be transfered, thieves and mesmers may think twice before applying it upon us, as it could backfire really hard in their face. =D

If the leaked notes are legit (http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9pS) here is the info on Torment:

Torment: Added a new Condition called Torment. This does damage every second (75% of a bleed), and double damage to foes that are moving(150% of a bleed). Stacks intensity.

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

osif.8673:

My goodness some of you guys are such pessimists. Anet has been the most vocal about Necros for this upcoming patch with buffs (who knows, there could even be more buffs that they haven’t mentioned yet!) with access to burning, Torment, DS #5… and you still find something to complain about. So quick to complain about things that aren’t even out yet.

Maybe because we’ve played the profession long enough (2,600 hours here) to have a fairly decent grasp of both its mechanics as well as how it fairs when facing other classes. Combined with the relative lack of balancing while ignoring glaring bugs for the past 10 months, there’s a precedent established that should make the level of pessimism come as no surprise.

That said, we can look beyond the surface pessimism at the sub-text. We’re passionate about the profession. We want to see it do well. We love our necros. Aside from a few hours dabbling with a thief and engi just to see how they work, it’s all I’ve played since launch. But it has been an uphill battle for this profession. Which isn’t necessarily a bad thing as I think overcoming the profession’s short-comings and making it work through determination and perseverance results in a very dedicated, loyal, and skilled group of players.

We’ve paid our dues, though, and it’s high time to allow necros to reach their full potential (which this profession has tons of, but has been held back from achieving due to the issues that have plagued us from day one and which the devs have been glacially slow in correcting.).

There are other classes than just necros that have glaring bugs. Complaining about thieves getting Torment too is a little ridiculous though. It adds more diversity for them, which is a good thing. I for one am excited to maybe see less trolling d/p thieves running around.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

This makes a fight with a thief even worse for necros. The thief steals from you, applies Torment, then fears you for 3 or more seconds. Way to go, ArenaNet. They didn’t learn the first time around when Fear was to be a necro-only skill. Now they throw Torment on top of it, giving a movement-punishing skill to the highest mobility profession who applies the most pressure on opponents to remain mobile in combat themselves. Seriously?!?! And they call this “balanced”?

If the Thief is stacking condition damage, he’s not going to be much of a threat to the Necromancer, who can transfer the conditions or otherwise clear them much more easily than the Thief can.

If the Thief isn’t stacking condition damage, his Torment stacks are going to be largely ignorable, just like any bleed stacks they apply now.

I guess it will all depend on how much damage per tick Torment delivers. Beyond the skill itself, I take issue with what is – in my opinion – a total disregard for the game mechanics when it comes to thieves. This is a game of rock, paper, scissors; oversimplified, skill X counters skill Y, which counters skill Z, which counters skill X. That’s all fine and good and works so long as the devs stick to that concept. But with thieves and necros, it seems to me they just throw it all away.

Thieves are a high-mobility class which generally require anyone engaging them to remain mobile during the fight, as well. So far, so good; no problems there. Now they add a condition that will punish players for remaining mobile while engaging the class that is designed to force them to remain mobile. That’s not limiting the thief to just a rock, paper, or scissors; that’s giving them the rock AND the paper (or any other 2-item combination).

Now add in Stolen Fear on top of it (which affects all professions, not just necros), and thieves have now been given the entire rock, paper, scissors tool set. They have high-mobility, they practically require opponents to remain mobile themselves, they will now be given a condition to punish opponents who remain mobile, and – if the opponent decides to stop moving – the thief has a tool (Stolen Fear) to force them to move.

By contrast, necros get the opposite treatment. We have arguably the lowest in-combat mobility (outside of some niche builds relying on Flesh Wurm or Spectral Walk) and some of the longest cast times. If we’re going to be weakened in one area, then the balance or compensation is we’re made strong in another area.

If we’re slow, then we should be given faster cast times (at least for our control skills) to make up for the fact that we’re not able to disengage from combat nor run down a fleeing opponent. That should be our counter rock to an opponent’s scissors; but that’s not how it’s playing out. We have long casts with high-telegraphs which give opponents plenty of time to use their array of escapes and blocks to completely avoid us.

All I’m asking is that the devs recognize this fundamental flaw in the design of the necromancer and correct it. We may not be able to disengage from combat, but then the balance should be that we make it VERY difficult for our opponents to disengage from it, as well.

Given their history to date, I’ll take a wait-and-see approach to the changes coming on the 25th. Just by the fact that they made the decision to give Torment to thieves, though, does not instill me with a lot of confidence.

Parthis.2091:

I don’t get the mesmer change. It’s already strong with confusion, so now, it’s a class that can punish you for using abilities and punish you for moving..

This was exactly my first tough.

I think this condition is going to be pretty much like fear. Designed to necros, improved for others, nerfed for us -_-

• Hey, lets add a new condition!
• Yeah, but how?
• DS #5
• OMG! That’s a great idea!
• Hey, you know what would be even more great? Let give it to the mesmer and the thief too!
• ZOMG! YES! MESMERS FTW!
• They should have a strongest and reliable version too!
• Wait, necros already have DS
• Lulz, you’r right, lets nerf Torment for them >:-(

Mark my words.

Liquid.9672:

If the leaked notes are legit (http://pastebin.com/2rrFg9pS) here is the info on Torment:

Torment: Added a new Condition called Torment. This does damage every second (75% of a bleed), and double damage to foes that are moving(150% of a bleed). Stacks intensity.

The 5 stack weakness could be some “dual pistol mesmer”-kind of internal notes. Or that condition will now stack in intensity.

In both cases, that would mean it is legit and that Tainted Shackles would deal crappy damage, unless 5-10 stacks are applied at once. Anyway, I pray for hybrid damage, not pure condi…