Guild Wars 2

This skill is terrible.

A Heal skill that doesn’t heal. So you get hit, and your health can’t go back up until combat is over. Also, it doesn’t deal with conditions like all of our other heals can, making you weak to conditions.

We all know that siphon values will be kept low.

No conditionmancer will use this, Staff and scepter attack too slow. No power necro will use this, they don’t wear toughness armor and spend a lot of time in shroud where the skill does nothing.

Let’s be honest what this skill really is:

It is the minions siphon health trait repurposed as a heal skill.

But anet has a design philosophy that dictates that specs based on AI damage are never to be useful in competitive pvp. So, if the skill makes minion masters useable instead of jokes, then a bunch of unrelated skills will get hards nerfs. Sorry, but that is how things work.

Note also that the minions siphon trait still exists: That means that the signet will be balanced at (100% effectiveness minus healing from minions siphon trait). You will have to take the trait just to get your heal to fully work.

Gizmorage.6412:

ah that would be the perfect excuse they’ll have for not allowing healing in DS: “but you could basically go in ds and heal full health”. bam!

I wouldn’t see that being any different then the warrior’s new heal with the signet stance builds..

It would seem logic for the necro to continue its healing in any transfomation (read moa/DS) makes me think they nerfed spectral skills in DS leading up the this signet being introduced.

If it worked in Plague, I could see it being good, but I highly, highly doubt that will be the case.

It could be nice in PvE, and a bunker necro could use it when he sees a Fresh Air ele running up to him, but that’s about it.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Gizmorage.6412:

ah that would be the perfect excuse they’ll have for not allowing healing in DS: “but you could basically go in ds and heal full health”. bam!

I wouldn’t see that being any different then the warrior’s new heal with the signet stance builds..

It would seem logic for the necro to continue its healing in any transfomation (read moa/DS) makes me think they nerfed spectral skills in DS leading up the this signet being introduced.

yeah, now say that to anet and their everending fear of bunker necro please ^^

It’s funny to see necro’s being so overwhelmed with the idea of a true passive heal
All thinking .. “what’s the catch?”
“I mean we are necro’s.. we are not supposed to have something that would work with our transformations”

would be so nice though.

spoj.9672:

Thats what I was thinking. But it depends on the cast time, the cooldown, the duration and the heal numbers. Quite a few factors that could make it a very bad skill.

Every skill could be bad depending on those factors :P

We kinda know now, its a Signet of Vampirism that does what our Blood GM should as active and is a worse vampiric as passive.

Bhawb.7408:

spoj.9672:

Thats what I was thinking. But it depends on the cast time, the cooldown, the duration and the heal numbers. Quite a few factors that could make it a very bad skill.

Every skill could be bad depending on those factors :P

Well if the passive was on hit it would be good in pve even with really poor healing.

Andele.1306:

We kinda know now, its a Signet of Vampirism that does what our Blood GM should as active and is a worse vampiric as passive.

The passive is when they hit you, not when you hit.

Really wish the passive would be whenever you hit someone. I realize that balance in this game mostly will be focused on sPvP, but I really feel rubbish in PvE compared to most other classes. Oh well, we might see how it does.

Well depending on how it works, “leeching” hp from the enemy when it’s used, if it’s substantial at all it’ll allow MMs to do quite a bit of burst damage it sounds like o.o

I’d prefer something like an exact replica of Consume, but consumes the conditions as LF.
i.e base heal as Consume + idk 2% LF /condi.

My celestial necro is going to love this,with a little change to food and sigils,I can easy get to 1k+ healing and just lose alittle bit of condi dmg.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Andele.1306:

We kinda know now, its a Signet of Vampirism that does what our Blood GM should as active and is a worse vampiric as passive.

The passive is when they hit you, not when you hit.

That is why i said a worse vampiric, think of how many times and how much damage goes in pve (as in its rare to see 40 hits that do 60k over the amount of 1 hit 40k damage skills on mobs).

Andele.1306:

That is why i said a worse vampiric, think of how many times and how much damage goes in pve (as in its rare to see 40 hits that do 60k over the amount of 1 hit 40k damage skills on mobs).

It’ll be (gasp) a niche skill in certain situations. God forbid.

ronpierce.2760:

Well depending on how it works, “leeching” hp from the enemy when it’s used, if it’s substantial at all it’ll allow MMs to do quite a bit of burst damage it sounds like o.o

That’s assuming it procs with minions. Do note that the description clearly states allied PLAYERS. I’d love it if the signet did actually work with minions but based on ArenaNet’s track record with the necromancer it’s probably going to be worthless.

Looking forward to seeing some real numbers but until then my enthusiasm remains curbed.

Am I the only one really confused about this?

If the passive heals you when you are struck it means that either:
a) you never take damage, since you out-heal incoming or;
b) it just mitigates damage, meaning you can never passively get to full HP until combat ends.

The only way I can see this signet working, as it’s currently worded, is if either the active heal is huge, or you can recover the passive HP while in Deathshroud.

Haha maybe it would be OP if you were getting hit by a bunch of mesmer clones at the same time

Kiriakulos.1690:

Am I the only one really confused about this?

If the passive heals you when you are struck it means that either:
a) you never take damage, since you out-heal incoming or;
b) it just mitigates damage, meaning you can never passively get to full HP until combat ends.

The only way I can see this signet working, as it’s currently worded, is if either the active heal is huge, or you can recover the passive HP while in Deathshroud.

The skill will mitigate X amount of damage per hit, X being whatever number it siphons for, while at the same time being a perma-retaliation like effect as well. I’d assume it’ll be similar to the HP values of the other “siphon” like signets, maybe slightly lower because it has a damage-coefficient that they don’t.

Essentially the skill will require you to be focused to be killed, because the random AoE spam will not hurt you very much, and hurt others quite a bit (especially if paired with retal, you could be hitting back for 300-400 just by being hit).

The active will be there for “burst” healing/damage. Again, probably won’t be a ton of healing, because it will deal damage, but if you drop it on an important target, you’re giving every ally that hits that target an armor ignoring damage buff, plus healing.

Obviously nothing can be determined until we know exactly how it works: ICD (or not, hopefully), values, scaling, CD on the active. However, I can see it being a strong skill for certain PvE fights (trash mobs and LoS stacking boss fights), WvW zerging, and tanky/support PvP builds (including MMs).

It’ll have a few niche uses, most likely. It’ll work well for any build that either won’t be taking a lot of focus/damage, or already has a lot of passive healing.

Remember that with the heals we already have, any new heals are most likely going to be more along the lines of niche heals, since CC is one of the best self heals in the game.

Kiriakulos.1690:

Am I the only one really confused about this?

If the passive heals you when you are struck it means that either:
a) you never take damage, since you out-heal incoming or;
b) it just mitigates damage, meaning you can never passively get to full HP until combat ends.

The only way I can see this signet working, as it’s currently worded, is if either the active heal is huge, or you can recover the passive HP while in Deathshroud.

Maybe dec 10 is when they give us DS healing! #speculation

ronpierce.2760:

Kiriakulos.1690:

Am I the only one really confused about this?

If the passive heals you when you are struck it means that either:
a) you never take damage, since you out-heal incoming or;
b) it just mitigates damage, meaning you can never passively get to full HP until combat ends.

The only way I can see this signet working, as it’s currently worded, is if either the active heal is huge, or you can recover the passive HP while in Deathshroud.

Maybe dec 10 is when they give us DS healing! #speculation

I sure is shooting hope so, because otherwise this is going to be complete garbage in PVP without some really nice scaling.

Rennoko.5731:

I sure is shooting hope so, because otherwise this is going to be complete garbage in PVP without some really nice scaling.

I can see it having some use on my minion builds, otherwise I don’t see it seeing high level use, just because the builds that “would” use it aren’t currently viable.

If nothing else, the passive effect works well with Siphoned Power. Helps you take those hits a little better, and we may see that the damage portion scales off power, so that would make for an interesting “you sure you want to hit me?” situation when low on health. Chances are, though, it won’t change anyone’s strategy.

At first I liked this healing skill, but then I realised something…

If the amount of healing we recieve is too large, it will be overpowered and we won’t be killable in certain situations. On the other hand… if it heals too little and doesn’t provide any healing when not being hit, then our health pool will literally never fill… it just becomes a glorified protection/retaliation passive.

So that basically means that we will have to use the active ability for healing ourselves up, and signet actives usually aren’t very efficient. Then again, it is a team heal, so it may be useful in pve.

I guess a niche heal is okay, but given the name of the ability I was hoping for a better healing ability than this.

Stx.4857:

At first I liked this healing skill, but then I realised something…

If the amount of healing we recieve is too large, it will be overpowered and we won’t be killable in certain situations. On the other hand… if it heals too little and doesn’t provide any healing when not being hit, then our health pool will literally never fill… it just becomes a glorified protection/retaliation passive.

So that basically means that we will have to use the active ability for healing ourselves up, and signet actives usually aren’t very efficient. Then again, it is a team heal, so it may be useful in pve.

I guess a niche heal is okay, but given the name of the ability I was hoping for a better healing ability than this.

I wish it was just on hit. If it was on hit at least you could dance around and try to refill it.

ronpierce.2760:

Stx.4857:

At first I liked this healing skill, but then I realised something…

If the amount of healing we recieve is too large, it will be overpowered and we won’t be killable in certain situations. On the other hand… if it heals too little and doesn’t provide any healing when not being hit, then our health pool will literally never fill… it just becomes a glorified protection/retaliation passive.

So that basically means that we will have to use the active ability for healing ourselves up, and signet actives usually aren’t very efficient. Then again, it is a team heal, so it may be useful in pve.

I guess a niche heal is okay, but given the name of the ability I was hoping for a better healing ability than this.

I wish it was just on hit. If it was on hit at least you could dance around and try to refill it.

That would make a lot more sense, and it would be a better signet if it worked that way… When I think of a Vampire, I don’t think of a retaliation type thing.. I think of health leeching with attacks.

Only way this will work is if its a % of the damage delt (like 27.5-40% so that its 33-50%) that instantly heals at the end of the damage calculation (so we dont get negative/overhealing and can kinda still get bursted down aka avernus from dota) while the active is almost instant and on a low cd and/or/maybe (baby) if we get a trait that lets us keep passive effects while signet is on cd.

Either way the chance for it to be as nicely balanced as consume or well of blood are close to 0.

Andele.1306:

Only way this will work is if its a % of the damage delt (like 27.5-40% so that its 33-50%) that instantly heals at the end of the damage calculation (so we dont get negative/overhealing and can kinda still get bursted down aka avernus from dota) while the active is almost instant and on a low cd and/or/maybe (baby) if we get a trait that lets us keep passive effects while signet is on cd.

Either way the chance for it to be as nicely balanced as consume or well of blood are close to 0.

I still think its easier to balance than siphons. Which could be 1x or 5×. At least this is static per hit. Get hit a lot, heal a lot (presumably).

Either way I think it is going to be amazing to duo with a ranger running the healing spirit on hit.

Rennoko.5731:

Andele.1306:

Only way this will work is if its a % of the damage delt (like 27.5-40% so that its 33-50%) that instantly heals at the end of the damage calculation (so we dont get negative/overhealing and can kinda still get bursted down aka avernus from dota) while the active is almost instant and on a low cd and/or/maybe (baby) if we get a trait that lets us keep passive effects while signet is on cd.

Either way the chance for it to be as nicely balanced as consume or well of blood are close to 0.

I still think its easier to balance than siphons. Which could be 1x or 5×. At least this is static per hit. Get hit a lot, heal a lot (presumably).

Either way I think it is going to be amazing to duo with a ranger running the healing spirit on hit.

Getting hit a lot doesnt mean you take/took a lot of damage, it just means more retal procs.

nekretaal.6485:

This skill is terrible.

A Heal skill that doesn’t heal. So you get hit, and your health can’t go back up until combat is over. Also, it doesn’t deal with conditions like all of our other heals can, making you weak to conditions.

We all know that siphon values will be kept low.

No conditionmancer will use this, Staff and scepter attack too slow. No power necro will use this, they don’t wear toughness armor and spend a lot of time in shroud where the skill does nothing.

Let’s be honest what this skill really is:

It is the minions siphon health trait repurposed as a heal skill.

But anet has a design philosophy that dictates that specs based on AI damage are never to be useful in competitive pvp. So, if the skill makes minion masters useable instead of jokes, then a bunch of unrelated skills will get hards nerfs. Sorry, but that is how things work.

Note also that the minions siphon trait still exists: That means that the signet will be balanced at (100% effectiveness minus healing from minions siphon trait). You will have to take the trait just to get your heal to fully work.

I believe its for specific use. for certain builds that focus on support of team.

Could be interesting in wvw zergs. I like how it scales with the number of attackers and the necro’s toughness, I dislike how it’s completely useless in DS (surprisingly enough). Hope it tags people getting hit
Then again, it’s a siphon so ‘by definition’ it’s going to have abysmal scaling and base values.

Knighthonor.4061:

I believe its for specific use. for certain builds that focus on support of team.

Basically this. It’ll be a support skill.

Active has to be unblockable otherwise it will be a meh and i still dont like how this thing work with Plague signet (conditions).

Just remember signet passives dont work inside DS so even if they fix healing in DS the signet wont heal while tanking in DS. Which is the only time I would allow myself to be hit in pve.

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/23579-signet-of-vampirism

Hmm looks worryingly weak.

spoj.9672:

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/23579-signet-of-vampirism

Hmm looks worryingly weak.

Don’t panic, every skill is off with the numbers. Check out Consume Conditions.

True. I guess I can be happy about the instant cast and cooldown atleast.

What about:

Vampiric Signet
passive: Siphon health whenever you hit a foe (Life siphon damage: 300/Life siphon healing: 300) while in Death Shroud Siphon Life force whenever you hit a foe (Life siphon damage: 300/Life force gained: 300)

active: gain 100% life force outside of Death Shroud and convert all Life force while in Death shroud to heal (Say 2% heal per every 1% Life Force?)

Would need to be have better wording lol

Except you cant cast signets in DS and the passives dont work while in DS.

spoj.9672:

Except you cant cast signets in DS and the passives dont work while in DS.

Yeah, but that could surely be changed for ONE heal.

A heal that involves damage reduction/life force regen while in Death Shroud could be an option.

On hit effects are bad because of our vulnerability to CC. Now with this signet even if we eat the punishment, it heals us. Sadly it won’t do anything while sitting in DS, which is bad, but at least it gives some group heal without screwing up waterfields with our well.

Dalanor.5387:

On hit effects are bad because of our vulnerability to CC. Now with this signet even if we eat the punishment, it heals us. Sadly it won’t do anything while sitting in DS, which is bad, but at least it gives some group heal without screwing up waterfields with our well.

How hard would it be for them to make it so that the heal works with Death Shroud? Really think they should add a heal that interacts with it.

Something like it healing for health when we damage outside of Death Shroud and then heals for Life Force inside Death Shroud.

They could even make the active part of the heals REALLY stong BUT with a big counter. As we see with some skills that punish us while damaging enemies.

Outside of Death Shroud: Consume All Life Force for 100% heal. Life Force Can not be gained for X number of seconds.

In Death Shroud: Consume All but 1 health to Double Life Force and Fill it up.

This would i think be great, with a bit of work of course . For example. You are running very low on Life Force while in Death Shroud. Pop the Heal now your Life Force energy is doubled and you now effectually have 200% Life Force health but the counter would be once that is drained/gone and you go back to normal form you have 1 health

Give the Signet a reasonable cool down. A trait that makes it so that You keep the Passive bonus after using the signets (like ele have) and you could be on your way to an amazing Death Shroud build

Looks like an interesting Signet that will be unusably in any PvP environment.

alanis.6094:

Looks like an interesting Signet that will be unusably in any PvP environment.

why?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How hard would it be for them to make it so that the heal works with Death Shroud? Really think they should add a heal that interacts with it.

Really hard, because the code of DS is so messed up if it was written in klingon language …

Dalanor.5387:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

How hard would it be for them to make it so that the heal works with Death Shroud? Really think they should add a heal that interacts with it.

Really hard, because the code of DS is so messed up if it was written in klingon language …

Great and my Heal idea would have fitted in quite well with the big bonus, big risk sort of thing that some of the skills have

Leecher

I made this rough build for the new heal skill. The one thing I hate about the necro is the minions so i didn’t go the minion leech route and went the power/retaliation/stability route. I was 5 pts away from the death into life trait but can’t see anything worth giving up for it. Also not sure if deathly invigoration is ultimately better than the transfusion trait. Now we just need a death match and the support meta will really shine.

The problem with Siphon builds is they suck in terms of getting health. I would love a REAL Vampire build, but the Siphon abilities are a JOKE. The heals need to be in the HUNDREDS not Tens :/

spoj.9672:

http://www.gw2db.com/skills/23579-signet-of-vampirism

Hmm looks worryingly weak.

Assuming this is accurate, does anyone else see something missing from this skill? And I mean completely-not-even-there?

There is no self-heal on the active. Yay necros for getting the only healing skill that doesn’t directly heal us..