Guild Wars 2

Superior Rune of Antitoxin
Superior Sigil of Torment
Toxic Sharpening Stones
Toxic Mantenance Oil
Toxic Focusing Crystal

Your toughts?

Edit: added wiki links

RoA looks pathetic. 5 stacks of might? No thanks. -24% condition duration? Naaah. I’m a necro.

Sigil of Torment – can anyone confirm how many stacks?

I like the crystals… but…. probably far more expensive. Not sure really. Anyone else tried them? It’s oil, not a food, so it’ll stack with pizza…

Sigil is 8 seconds of torment on a 7 second cooldown, but only 1 stack. Radius of the AoE is unknown. Lower damage than Earth, but better in a cleanse-heavy environment or in big champ events.

SupahSpankeh.8452:

RoA looks pathetic. 5 stacks of might? No thanks. -24% condition duration? Naaah. I’m a necro.

Sigil of Torment – can anyone confirm how many stacks?

I like the crystals… but…. probably far more expensive. Not sure really. Anyone else tried them? It’s oil, not a food, so it’ll stack with pizza…

K for science I have tested the sigil and the crystals.

The crystals are Wrench so they would replace your tuning crystals. the +10% shows in your hero panel. If price is no problem it is the go to food over normal crystals for condi’s. They move my necro with runes of traveler to +90% condition duration.

The torment is 1 stack I don’t know the radius have to test again my guess is 300 ish.

Seen people on Reddit saying it willl be OP in WvW because they can’t add. Earth > Torment for damage.

Torment sigils best use is as a cover condition.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lower damage than Earth, but better in a cleanse-heavy environment or in big champ events.

Already had that covered on sigil. That said, I spent 7 gold on the dumb thing. I’m keeping it for now, just to help get credit in big events and to get that extra cover.

Does anyone know the recipe for this sigil or tormenting?
Cant find anything on it anywhere.

And i dont wanna buy it till i know :P

Great, as if this game needed more condition spam

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lower damage than Earth, but better in a cleanse-heavy environment or in big champ events.

Already had that covered on sigil. That said, I spent 7 gold on the dumb thing. I’m keeping it for now, just to help get credit in big events and to get that extra cover.

I am just now logging in to investigate… but honestly an on-crit additional condition is just getting ludicrus. You can potentially have 6 conditions proc on a single attack.

Seems like it synergizes really well with epidemic to me.

The rune is good for condi necros in WvW. You really need that 24% condition duration there.

Rennoko.5731:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lower damage than Earth, but better in a cleanse-heavy environment or in big champ events.

Already had that covered on sigil. That said, I spent 7 gold on the dumb thing. I’m keeping it for now, just to help get credit in big events and to get that extra cover.

I am just now logging in to investigate… but honestly an on-crit additional condition is just getting ludicrus. You can potentially have 6 conditions proc on a single attack.

Seems like it synergizes really well with epidemic to me.

Necros can only get up to four, unless I’m mistaken. All of our skills that can crit and add more than one condition add bleed. Best we can get is a Deathly Swarm crit with Chilling Darkness and Withering Precision, proccing both Barbed Precision and a sigil. That gets us five.

Unless you mean Signet of Spite critting with this sigil and Chilling Darkness. That’s 7 conditions.

Shifu.4321:

The rune is good for condi necros in WvW. You really need that 24% condition duration there.

you are misreading the runes. they dont give +24% condition duration, its MINUS 24% condition duration (for conditions on you)…which are horrible for necros who have plenty of ways to remove them already.

The sigil of Tormenting is Awesome, Will defiantly be using that on my staff. (have another staff to use for building +10 condi dmg then swap to the procing one for torment)

The attunement crystals are also boss. Everything else is meh not really good for us imho.

Rehk.6574:

Shifu.4321:

The rune is good for condi necros in WvW. You really need that 24% condition duration there.

you are misreading the runes. they dont give +24% condition duration, its MINUS 24% condition duration (for conditions on you)…which are horrible for necros who have plenty of ways to remove them already.

More specifically, who will be throwing the conditions back. Reduced incoming duration means shorter conditions you transfer back. It’s why condition necros also shouldn’t be running Lemongrass & poultry soup.

Rehk.6574:

Shifu.4321:

The rune is good for condi necros in WvW. You really need that 24% condition duration there.

you are misreading the runes. they dont give +24% condition duration, its MINUS 24% condition duration (for conditions on you)…which are horrible for necros who have plenty of ways to remove them already.

The sigil of Tormenting is Awesome, Will defiantly be using that on my staff. (have another staff to use for building +10 condi dmg then swap to the procing one for torment)

The attunement crystals are also boss. Everything else is meh not really good for us imho.

Yeah I know. I already use the minus condition duration food in WvW, and believe me, in T1 fights, the conditions stacks are so heavy that you really can’t get enough cleansing.

Djemo.7153:

Does anyone know the recipe for this sigil or tormenting?
Cant find anything on it anywhere.

And i dont wanna buy it till i know :P

1 orichca ingot 2 ectos 60 primordiom and 100 pristine toxic spores

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Rennoko.5731:

I am just now logging in to investigate… but honestly an on-crit additional condition is just getting ludicrus. You can potentially have 6 conditions proc on a single attack.

Seems like it synergizes really well with epidemic to me.

Necros can only get up to four, unless I’m mistaken. All of our skills that can crit and add more than one condition add bleed. Best we can get is a Deathly Swarm crit with Chilling Darkness and Withering Precision, proccing both Barbed Precision and a sigil. That gets us five.

I believe what he meant was:
1 attack that doesn’t apply any conditions by itself could inflict up 6 conditions with Dhuumfire (burning), Withering Precision(weakness), Barbed Precision (bleeding), Sigil (torment), Rune (confusion) and something like Venomous Aura (poison).

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Unless you mean Signet of Spite critting with this sigil and Chilling Darkness. That’s 7 conditions.

Or you could use Plague Signet to tranfer 11 conditions.
Or (if it worked properly) all 12 conditions with Putrid Mark by cleansing a feared ally.

Point. I forgot Dhuumfire. I never use it.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Rennoko.5731:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Lower damage than Earth, but better in a cleanse-heavy environment or in big champ events.

Already had that covered on sigil. That said, I spent 7 gold on the dumb thing. I’m keeping it for now, just to help get credit in big events and to get that extra cover.

I am just now logging in to investigate… but honestly an on-crit additional condition is just getting ludicrus. You can potentially have 6 conditions proc on a single attack.

Seems like it synergizes really well with epidemic to me.

Necros can only get up to four, unless I’m mistaken. All of our skills that can crit and add more than one condition add bleed. Best we can get is a Deathly Swarm crit with Chilling Darkness and Withering Precision, proccing both Barbed Precision and a sigil. That gets us five.

Unless you mean Signet of Spite critting with this sigil and Chilling Darkness. That’s 7 conditions.

Flow mentioned it already.

If you take deathly swarm crit with C/D:

Blind, chill, Bleed, Burn, Confusion (runes), torment (sigil), weakness (Wither).

That one is 7, but a terror crit, a dark path crit, each of those could do 6 conditions on one hit. It is somewhat RNG because of the chance on crit for tormet and the chance on hit for confusion, but still.

Do sigils of earth and torment stack if one is on MH and the other on OH?

No, they share the same CD.

Sigil of the same trigger type will not stack.

I guess the new sigil is better against a larger group. I hope they decrease the cd by a bit. Bleed is still superior to Torment as it’s easier to stack.

I hope they add a torment sigil that is equal to earth. Having 1 stack of AOE torment on an 8s CD is pretty worthless in PvE. I’d much rather the 60% single target stackable sigil.

Now that I computed the output damage for my conditionmancer, this is way inferior to Sigil of Fire (for power types), even with condition duration.

Only 2.6k for me for the total duration and that is when the enemy is moving. Fire blast will do more damage and also on shorter cooldown. CD should be the same as Earth (2sec) before this becomes effective. Also a bit higher chance of triggering.

This will only be useful to add more condition so that your enemy will have a harder time cleansing the conditions, but necromancers already have a lot of other conditions for that purpose.

I had to try out the sigil, it does something like 126 or so dmg when enemy is moving, and fire sigils procs for anywhere between 600-1k so all in all it’s not too bad a difference. The thing I like is that it’s an aoe, with about 200 range. With decent crit chance you can maintain 2 stacks at any given time, so it amounts to quite some dmg, and again when fighting more than 1, it’s awesome

And Sylpheed is correct in that it’s good to have another condi… the more the better! Makes it easier to get in some dmg

The Sigil of Torment actually does not share a cooldown with Sigil of Blood or with On Swap Sigils, which could make it an interesting choice to combo.

Pendragon.8735:

The Sigil of Torment actually does not share a cooldown with Sigil of Blood or with On Swap Sigils, which could make it an interesting choice to combo.

Are you 100% sure of this?

Mine damages for 206 per tick (moving) and will go for around 13 seconds because of condition durations. (Yep, I’m a full conditionmancer).

My problem is it’s not worth changing Earth to Torment in my scepter (except if the bleed stack always caps). I think I’ll just put this in my staff (replacing Geomancy), the cooldown is long enough anyway.

Only 200 AoE? I thought it would be like 300.

Pendragon.8735:

The Sigil of Torment actually does not share a cooldown with Sigil of Blood or with On Swap Sigils, which could make it an interesting choice to combo.

Oh really? I will have to go investigate this.

Rennoko.5731:

Pendragon.8735:

The Sigil of Torment actually does not share a cooldown with Sigil of Blood or with On Swap Sigils, which could make it an interesting choice to combo.

Oh really? I will have to go investigate this.

Let us know if you find something

If what Pendragon said is true then this sigil out-performs every other on-crit sigil for condition classes.
And aoe-torment sounds really good, as a condi-mancer I’d take this over sigil of earth even if it was just single target.

Btw, Sylpheed is on a posting-spree xD

flow.6043:

I’d take this over sigil of earth even if it was just single target.

Are you saying as an off hand choice?

Because otherwise, I don’t see why it would rate higher. Unless you are valuing the coverage super high. Earth at 60% should proc at least twice, maybe more, for every 1 time Torment does. 1 Torment is only 1.5 bleed stacks – if they are even moving the whole time.

• Small correction to my first post, I tested it with Earth Sigil not with Blood. But as stated both will fire off independently of each other, regardless if the other is on CD. You can also proc Torment and switch to your On Swap within 7 seconds and still get the swap effect.

Despite this, I’m still not convinced on this Sigil. At 30% crit, it often doesn’t even proc on regular mobs before they are dead, unless you pop DS to start.

I would personally use it in addition to an on-swap sigil, but even if it doesn’t share an icd with on-crits… coverage almost always beats damage: in a PvP environment covering a cleansing spot can net a lot more damage than a single stack of bleeding by far. Also, players are always moving, no one stands still because of a single stack of torment.
In PvE you’d only want bleeding instead of (non-moving) torment if you’re fighting trash mobs, but of course aoe procs would be a better choice here.
On bosses bleeding will get pushed off too quickly. Torment on the other hand is very rare, in fact I have yet to see 25 stacks of torment… as far as I could tell this doesn’t even happen in world events. So even then you’re pretty much guaranteed that your torment will run its full duration.

I can see for world bosses, dungeon bosses. Also with an on swap, yeah earth is bad there. But otherwise for PVP… I don’t know. With only 30% chance, seems the torment is most likely to come up upon entering DS and on Life Transfer, which case it might be stacking at right the same time as shackles, then also get removed at the same time. IDK, I prefer leeching over damage sigils anyway.

Pendragon.8735:

I can see for world bosses, dungeon bosses. Also with an on swap, yeah earth is bad there. But otherwise for PVP… I don’t know. With only 30% chance, seems the torment is most likely to come up upon entering DS and on Life Transfer, which case it might be stacking at right the same time as shackles, then also get removed at the same time. IDK, I prefer leeching over damage sigils anyway.

I was having a very hard time getting it to proc at a reasonable rate last night as well. The fire sigil on the other hand seems to proc all the time for me, but torment not so much. I could simply be because there is no visual, so it procs often right when things are dying, when my cursor is somewhere else etc. They should proc the same rate.

At the end of the day, would you rather the AOE torment proc or 6% more condition damage. Its a tough call really. Going to test the proc now.

EDIT: Yes… Torment sigils stacks with everything. Which is fasctinating, because nothing else stacks as far as swap and crit effects. Could be an oversight on their part. Torment on crit and Geo on swap is pretty nice for the aoe conditions.

Well, that’s intriguing. Tough call if I want Bursting or Earth paired with it, then.

I tested some stuff with sigil of fire a few weeks ago and made a weird discovery. If I paired the sigil of fire with an on-swap like geomancy, then the swap damage itself could trigger the flame blast.
That means that the swap attack, which clearly causes the crit proc, doesn’t chronologically precede it. A sigil time paradox, if you will ^^

@torment sigil: good to know.
I can’t use it atm, but I’ve read in the sPvP forum a while ago that devs are planning to implement a second sigil slot for two-handed weapons. In that case the sigil would be a strong contender for my staff, considering that up to 5 attacks at once are more likely to trigger it.

Just “tested” it and it does seem as if torment sigil isn’t on a shared CD. I tested with fire and torment, both could proc within an axe2 channel. Although it does seem as if torment has a lower chance to proc, as some have noted.
I also tested it with battle. Right after torment procced I would swith weapons and still get my 3 stacks of might.

Now I’m wondering if this is even meant to be like this, or if it’s an unintended bug.

If I am building your standard condi necro (I have never done a condi build on my ele so I want to swith things up … and yes I know the limitations in PvE events) would my necro benefit more from the toxic focusing crystal, stones or …?

Rainshine.5493:

If I am building your standard condi necro (I have never done a condi build on my ele so I want to swith things up … and yes I know the limitations in PvE events) would my necro benefit more from the toxic focusing crystal, stones or …?

Depends on how much duration you already have, how cleanse-heavy of an environment you’re in, and what your gear/traits is.

Rainshine.5493:

If I am building your standard condi necro (I have never done a condi build on my ele so I want to swith things up … and yes I know the limitations in PvE events) would my necro benefit more from the toxic focusing crystal, stones or …?

I am not sold on the new crystals unfortunately.

Look at it like this:

There are multiple ways to get more condition duration.

1. Use rare veggie pizza. It gives 40% duration and is by far the most outrageously effective way to get duration, and you are only giving up a very small amount of condition damage (as the max condition damage food is 100 and rare veggie is 70).

With spite you are at 70% now. Do you even need more duration? Maybe, maybe not.

2. You can take giver’s weapons. These are going to cost you 90-180 condition damage and give you 10-20% duration depending on MH/OH or staff. A far worse choice than rare veggie, and very expensive in how much condi damage you lose.

3. You can take runes that give duration. Nightmare gives 10%, and doesn’t sacrifice much in the way of damage (only about 100-120 if you compare it to say the premier damage set that is scavenging with dire). Other runes lose more damage for more duration, but I won’t go into that.

4. You take the new crystals, which give 100 condi damage and 10% duration. In a full dire set, you are dropping 50-60ish condit damage for that 10% duration (compared to master tuning). That is almost as bad as giver’s, which is not great.

Given that in WvW, condition cleaning is already a problem, it comes down to if you feel that extra short duration increase (say on fear) is worth it to you.

Stat wise, Pizza is the only thing that is absolutely worth it. The others are personal choices on how much you want to sac your damage to get more duration.

I really wouldn’t care about this sigil in pve. Yes it sucks less in capped bosses, but really that 100dmg advantage doesn’t change things much. I would rather focus on non-capped situation.

In wvw, it has a place I think, shared CD or not. It’s aoe which would help in zerg, and a separate condition to cover from those cleanse. And I think it would match Dire better because of the longer CD.

Regarding the CD, don’t be happy so early, it could just be a bug.

Afya.5842:

I really wouldn’t care about this sigil in pve. Yes it sucks less in capped bosses, but really that 100dmg advantage doesn’t change things much. I would rather focus on non-capped situation.

In wvw, it has a place I think, shared CD or not. It’s aoe which would help in zerg, and a separate condition to cover from those cleanse. And I think it would match Dire better because of the longer CD.

Regarding the CD, don’t be happy so early, it could just be a bug.

Actually I find it really doesn’t work well with dire at all… The proc rate is so low on it seemingly, I cannot get it to work effectively. I am using it with earth and rabid now and it is much more pronounced.

Rennoko.5731:

Afya.5842:

I really wouldn’t care about this sigil in pve. Yes it sucks less in capped bosses, but really that 100dmg advantage doesn’t change things much. I would rather focus on non-capped situation.

In wvw, it has a place I think, shared CD or not. It’s aoe which would help in zerg, and a separate condition to cover from those cleanse. And I think it would match Dire better because of the longer CD.

Regarding the CD, don’t be happy so early, it could just be a bug.

Actually I find it really doesn’t work well with dire at all… The proc rate is so low on it seemingly, I cannot get it to work effectively. I am using it with earth and rabid now and it is much more pronounced.

That’s a surprise, I thought 7s CD would be enough to proc it.

I don’t think I’ll give up bursting for that.

The 7 seconds isn’t the problem, it is the dead time after the ICD of 7 seconds waiting for it to proc again that hurts. I wanted an excuse to go back to rabid so I am okay with it.

Rennoko.5731:

Rainshine.5493:

If I am building your standard condi necro (I have never done a condi build on my ele so I want to swith things up … and yes I know the limitations in PvE events) would my necro benefit more from the toxic focusing crystal, stones or …?

I am not sold on the new crystals unfortunately.

Thanks for the detailed response (both you and others). What about the crit + condi? I assume like many crit builds there are necro builds that rely on crit heavily (but I’m still feeling my way around the class, so I could be wrong).

Rennoko.5731:

With spite you are at 70% now. Do you even need more duration? Maybe, maybe not.

I usually run MoT, and have been thinking if I get up to 80% with this new crystal, maybe I drop Master of Terror and take Soul Marks, or heck, even drop those 5 points in SR and grab the 500 health and 1000 regen minor in Blood. It does offer some new choices.

They are a bit too pricey to make to just chain use all the time though, I find that a problem, will probably keep a stack just for certain important looking map engagements and high pop times.

+ 10% is another poison tick on scepter auto and another dhuumfire tick in wvw for the standard terrormancer. Not worth the 25+ silver imo