Guild Wars 2

Can’t believe no one has posted about the upcoming grandmaster trait yet. Thoughts? I for one am on the fence about it. I honestly think this feature should be a norm for DS, not some grandmaster trait and siphons should work in DS….but it’s still an improvement, however small, to what we have now.

Necromancer: Unholy Sanctuary
In addition to a bit of a trait line rework, the necromancer’s Death Magic will be gaining the ability to heal your health pool while Death Shroud is active. Unholy Sanctuary allows you to turtle in your Death Shroud and slowly heal yourself, granting you additional survivability in situations that might otherwise spell certain death. The healing rate of Unholy Sanctuary is the same as the regeneration boon and will be affected by healing power.

I think its a good compromise. I kind of always felt healing in DS would be a bit strong. So making it a grandmaster means you have to spec for it.

The new trait changes have huge implications for pve as a whole. Being able to change builds anytime out of combat is amazing. And im very excited to see the other new traits.

Maybe i’m reading that weird… but it sounds like we’ll be able to receive healing through a bunch of death magic traits through a rework of the line, but unholy sanctuary will just give us an additional heal in DS.

Well… I think the reason there hasn’t been much discussion is that no one has seen it yet. I have been occasionally checking the forums, but not in any depth. The fact that they have finally released information should be a banner EXPLODING out of the front page of the forums.

Was it so hard to release some of this information a week ago? Two weeks ago? Clearly a lot of this has been thought out in advance. I feel like going radio silent was an odd thing to do with all of this information right in the wings.

In all fairness, I did say that if they had a full rework for the skill and trait system in the works it would at least justify some of the silence, and they did in fact do that.

At first I thought this trait was going to let me be healed in DS, but really it seems it is a GM trait for regen while in DS. Finally a healing power/spectral build can work, but I don’t really know how well.

I have mixed feelings about the retrait without TEMPLATES. Being forced to click and reclick, and click again to swap out best in slot traits per encounter or fight or whatever is going to be irritating. Having templates would be so nice.

Meh I can’t say, even before giving a rehaul to the trait system they had to make work their initial ideas.
Minions’ AI is still broken, Condi damage sucks in PVE, Siphons suck, most Traits are a waste.
This new trait should allow finally a decent bunker for PVP, but I think it should stay in Blood line, not Death.

I’m already running a very bunkery staff build of 0/10/30/0/30 in WvW. So this is the best news I have heard all year.

On paper, it seems a bit under tuned. Base (without healing power), you’re looking at 2600 healing if you manage to stay in DS for 20 seconds… Doesn’t sound too game changing, but we’ll have to see in practice.

Arvid.3829:

On paper, it seems a bit under tuned. Base (without healing power), you’re looking at 2600 healing if you manage to stay in DS for 20 seconds… Doesn’t sound too game changing, but we’ll have to see in practice.

It is designed for a healing focused build prob. I am sure it will be tuned with a bunker in mind in spvp. Shame it wasn’t tuned like DI to be good in every build, but I think it will be a pretty awesome reason to finally use death magic. Assuming the other fixes were to take minor 5 and 15 and burn them to the ground.

Assuming also that siphons work in DS (possible now that they have opened the can of worms that is DS healing), put together with that, and a spectral build would be pretty amazing in any build.

I can really see the Apoc gear making a huge round with necros if things go that direction. Makes me wonder how they are going to balance that out.

I must say the news today was really faith restoring for me. I was on the brink of not bothering to check for information this week… glad I did. Still going to try Wildstar though this weekend.

It will be nerfed into the kitten ground the moment it screws up their beloved spvp.

Calling it now.

Im on the fence when it comes to the new skill on one sense im pleased were getting something that will heal our health whilst in DS. But on the other hand it confirms that we will never ever get it so that regen and heals from party members will effect our health pool.

I have been thinking how I could fit this new trait into my build and to be honest its a nice addition but the loss I get from having to go 30 points into DM far outweighs the benefit but it will be nice for those bunker builds if they eventually find a use for them in the game.

Otherwise I shall wait and see what other changes we have in store, but as I said i’m pretty much on the fence about it until we see if its a proper heal or a signet of vampirism heal.

I like what the new trait represents to me: a bold, meaningful direction for Grandmasters. Make them strong, try new mechanics, and keep iterating on the game.

Yeah I think the swapping of builds on the fly will be a huge game changer for us, more so than many other classes because we’ve never really had a “one size fits all” build like some classes do. We have to adapt on the fly and up until now it has meant clumsily swapping out a few utilities, and, if you’re lucky enough to have done your build in such a way, a few major traits. But now we can totally retrait between fights as needed. Oh you’re running an epidemic build but suddenly we need a well/blind build? no prob, got it covered, ect ect. Being able to showcase all of our talents at once might make us not so reviled in dungeons anymore. I doubt hardcore speedclear teams will ever develop patience for trait swapping mid-dungeon but then again I doubt those teams will ever fully accept necro as viable anymore after we got our DS cahones chopped. .

So basiclly a renamed Soothing mist for +25 more trait points? Great?

This sounds horrendously weak if all it does is give you the regeneration boon (essentially) while in DS. I’d consider it good if it enabled ALL heals to work in DS, but we just don’t know yet.

Bare in mind this bit from the description as well:

In addition to a bit of a trait line rework…

We should be seeing some reordering of traits.

Rising Dusk.2408:

This sounds horrendously weak if all it does is give you the regeneration boon (essentially) while in DS. I’d consider it good if it enabled ALL heals to work in DS, but we just don’t know yet.

Keep in mind that it’s a regeneration boon when you aren’t actually taking damage, so the power of it is going to be stronger than at first glance. Plus, we still have the ability to build life force while in death shroud, so it will probably add a fair amount of durability. The real advantage is that the only way our opponents cans stop this healing is to burn us out of death shroud (since it’s not a boon), which means they waste their burst ability on that instead of when we’re actually vulnerable. It’s unlikely that they will do that, unless they are bad.

Hopefully, though, this also means we can benefit from Regen while in death shroud soon, in which case the double-strength is nice.

Rising Dusk.2408:

This sounds horrendously weak if all it does is give you the regeneration boon (essentially) while in DS. I’d consider it good if it enabled ALL heals to work in DS, but we just don’t know yet.

Pretty much yeah.

A Necromancer, even a death shroud specced necromancer spends less than half the time in death shroud. So, soothing mists that is up half the time is really weak.

Lifesteal, food, party healing, these should all work even when the necromancer is in death shroud.

Hmm it will be around ~1% LF per sec with 0 healing power and a bit more than 2% with 1k healing power. Or i missed something. Not impressed. Waiting for details.

I guess it’s nice for the players already deep in death magic, but it will in no way get me investing 30 in death magic. I’m more interested in the curses grandmaster and blood magic grand masters since those are in reach of my current build. If the blood magic grandmaster is lack luster, I’ll be looking at the changes to death magic minors for my last 10 trait points.

Dalanor.5387:

Hmm it will be around ~1% LF per sec with 0 healing power and a bit more than 2% with 1k healing power. Or i missed something. Not impressed. Waiting for details.

LF? It’s talking about healing your Health Pool while in DS. Not regenning LF while in DS.

Honestly, the potential for a tanky Necro who focuses on LF gen and Healing might be pretty extreme. Like the Settler’s Amulet in sPvP: Toughness primary, Healing Power/Condi Dmg secondary. You can do something like roll Axe+Focus/Staff or some such, get bleed proc traits, maybe some Soul Marks, and have seemingly really good Regen and LF gen outside of DS, while having the high Toughness while inside LF to top off your health.

I’m really intrigued by the possibilities. This sort of thing might not quite work out perfectly and you’ll probably have to sacrifice some good Condi Damage traits, but a build like this isn’t designed to Condi burst, just play the, WAIT FOR IT….

Attrition game.

Warrior: +10% attack speed with offhand weapon equiped.
Necro: Regen health in DS same rate as kittening regen boon affected by kittening healing power…
This is bullkitten, give me some offensive kitten to :/

Falcon.8713:

Warrior: +10% attack speed with offhand weapon equiped.
Necro: Regen health in DS same rate as kittening regen boon affected by kittening healing power…
This is bullkitten, give me some offensive kitten to :/

We have 4 other grandmasters that havent been announced yet.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Falcon.8713:

Warrior: +10% attack speed with offhand weapon equiped.
Necro: Regen health in DS same rate as kittening regen boon affected by kittening healing power…
This is bullkitten, give me some offensive kitten to :/

We have 4 other grandmasters that havent been announced yet.

Two of which are the Offensive trait lines.

People are incredible sometimes.

Spoj The Second.7680:

Falcon.8713:

Warrior: +10% attack speed with offhand weapon equiped.
Necro: Regen health in DS same rate as kittening regen boon affected by kittening healing power…
This is bullkitten, give me some offensive kitten to :/

We have 4 other grandmasters that havent been announced yet.

Still that thing doesn’t make sense in the DM (aka Minion) traitline :/ Blood magic, maybe ?

Why? Its a defensive trait in a defensive line. There has to be some overlap anyway otherwise builds would be very dull.

@Cogbyrn
Oh i’m so dumb, so it will heal our real health … I need more coffee. kitten .

@Falcon
The whole traitline will be reworked and Death is a toughness / boon line, so it’s defensive. Somehow makes sense.

Falcon.8713:

Spoj The Second.7680:

Falcon.8713:

Warrior: +10% attack speed with offhand weapon equiped.
Necro: Regen health in DS same rate as kittening regen boon affected by kittening healing power…
This is bullkitten, give me some offensive kitten to :/

We have 4 other grandmasters that havent been announced yet.

Still that thing doesn’t make sense in the DM (aka Minion) traitline :/ Blood magic, maybe ?

DUDE. Seriously. This shouldn’t be a MM trait line. It should be a defensive trait line. So they have to rework the line to get rid of the 5 and 15 point traits and add a GM trait which isn’t about minions.

We currently have no defensive trait line which kills necro build diversity. DM should be that trait line. If they rework it in this direction then this is fantastic news.

Yeah, it would make more sense in Blood Magic, but since they also said the traitline is getting a rework, we’ll see how it goes.

That said, it is good Grandmaster design: they open up new builds.

I actually feel a bit insulted with this anouncement.
They say like it is special getting healing while you are using your defensive mechanisms. Every other class gets it without problems while necromancers can only use it when necromancers have to invest 30 (then 6) trait points and our limit is regeneration while loosing all our other heals (even from other people).

The fact that this trait is in death magic does not help my opinion either.

I think it’s a powerful trait that will enable a lot of minionmancer bunker builds, but, as with the ranger grandmaster, it’s a trait meant to fix problems inherent with the mechanic it’s improving (in the ranger’s case the slow projectile speed of longbow making it too easy to dodge just by strafing, combined with their illogical decision to make it only do maximum damage at maximum range, where it is easiest to dodge!). The reason necromancer bunkers aren’t as good as guardian or engi bunkers is because the latter can heal while invulnerable/blocking, while the necromancer’s only approximation to an invulnerability skill (death shroud), blocks all healing. This addresses that particular imbalance without fixing the underlying problem, so I’d much rather Death Shroud was reworked completely.
I’m still happy though, reworking DS would be a major project which the devs still aren’t convinced is necessary, so this is a good medium-term solution!

Rennoko.5731:

I have mixed feelings about the retrait without TEMPLATES. Being forced to click and reclick, and click again to swap out best in slot traits per encounter or fight or whatever is going to be irritating. Having templates would be so nice.

Totally agreed we need templates, but that would be another major feature, and considering how much more complicated a character build in GW2 is than in GW1, where it was just 8 skill slots and 4 numerical attributes I don’t begrudge them the fact that they weren’t able to fit it into this update.

Also if they ARE gonna do templates I’d much rather they prioritise doing them for pvp, since in pve/wvw most of your stats come from gear anyway, and being able to swap your trait allocation around with a template would styill leave you with lots of work swapping bits of armour around. In pvp since gear is free you’d be able to use a template to switch everything up instantly, so the benefit would be greater.

you guys are so depressing. 40 new traits across all classes are coming, a new way to earn the traits. No full details about what those traits are, and yet 90% of the posts are complaining that they aren’t powerful enough?

I’m actually quite excited to see what the changes are going to be, changes are exciting.

These changes, coupled with the easy of re-traiting, could point to a more fluid flexible system in the future – including more diversity. Additional traits will mean that existing traits will get looked at and rebalanced as well – details we do not know – but this looks to me like the start of the refresh we’ve been asking for.

Tim.6450:

I actually feel a bit insulted with this anouncement.
They say like it is special getting healing while you are using your defensive mechanisms. Every other class gets it without problems while necromancers can only use it when necromancers have to invest 30 (then 6) trait points and our limit is regeneration while loosing all our other heals (even from other people).

The fact that this trait is in death magic does not help my opinion either.

I assume they remade the minors already and at least the GM minor helps someway to make synergy with this trait to heal with Regen too or enable allied heals to us in DS.

Yes it is possible the change out for the master level minor is to allow 50% of boona nd external healing through DS. Pure speculation of course, but the implications would be interesting. Sounds overpowered when you pair it with an EXTRA regen buff in a state when you cannot take HP damage now right?

First and foremost it is exactly what was requested. A trait deep in DM that doesn’t have anything to do with minions and actually fits in the tree (though it could have fit in blood too).

They even said in the post they reworked the rest of DM. I can’t imagine anyone complaining about it now with the limited information we have. And I complain about everything.

Pretty much all condition necros viability after the patch (after dhuumfire nerf) relies on the curses GM trait. If it is strong for a condition spec then condition necro will be a thing. Otherwise it won;t

Seems like a pretty neat trait, really. You’re going to be popping into Death Shroud all the time anyway, and coming out of it a bit healthier is certainly nice. Its not going to be a massive healing amount without a lot of healing power, but a bit more health could help you survive coming out of DS until you can use your heal skill.

Placement is really strange, though. Should definitely be in Blood Magic. Having that extra 300 Healing innate would help it feel more impressive by default. Perhaps they felt that having another heal skill in Blood Magic would be OP considering how many there already are, but you have to choose between a max of 3 anyway, so I don’t think it would have been too bad.

Imagine what they have done possibly with Spectrals and Soul reaping … oooooooh my god tank necro. I’m drooling. :Q

MM shouldn’t be a trait line.

Ignoring the rat, minions are just a class of utility skills and should be improvable by a maximum of two traits (anything more turns a class of skills into a gimmick)

Death Magic as the boon duration line should have boons.

Blood/lifesteal

Lifesteal should not exist. 8 years, anet can’t balance it. Just give up already. Healing traits need to work with the class mechanic.

Dalanor.5387:

Imagine what they have done possibly with Spectrals and Soul reaping … oooooooh my god tank necro. I’m drooling. :Q

How about changing the vital pers. and moving it to GM and removing the degen all together. No LF degen and constant regular HP regen while in DS. That would be pretty amazing. And it would be the first time since the game game out that a 0 0 30 10 30 build would not look stupid.

No wait, if we get a Trait to regen under Death Shroud after 17 months, for September 2015 we would get a trait to stomp and ress too!

I’m still not personally convinced that Necros need the ability to heal their Health Pool through Boons/Allied Heals or anything while in Death Shroud. It sounds ultra convenient, but DS isn’t akin to Blocks or Invulns at all. Saying a Guard can heal while Blocking is apples to getting healing while in DS’s oranges.

But I digress. I like the build potential this trait suggests, and I would love if the Death Magic trait line was less about minions and more about survival. It has been so long since I’ve even considered those two trait lines as trait lines when looking at builds I want to use.

Question, does this trait allow healing from sphions/regeneration or is it simply you regenerate x hp while in ds?

Muchacho.2390:

Question, does this trait allow healing from sphions/regeneration or is it simply you regenerate x hp while in ds?

It is all speculation at this point beyond the words in the post. Supposely they are going to go into more details in the coming weeks, but I would guess we have to wait for the final iteration release to be certain.

Dhuumfire – condi requiring precision placed into the power line
Unholy Sanctuary – heal requiring healing placed in the toughness line

I have to reserve judgement until I try out the reworked DM tree but my first questions are whether the regen is corruptable or strippable, and whether the regen ends when the DS tranform ends. Players who pop in and out of DS can already configure for a small heal on exit but I doubt many do. What kind of build is 0/0/30/20/20? Wasting DS on “turtle” strategy does not have much appeal but it is too early too do more than speculate.

Still, I cannot help drawing parallels with Dhuumfire.

This trait is terrible guys sorry. Conditional regen? Not really going to help vs 8k pistol whips or 12k ele bursts. Seriously this trait is one of the worst GM traits in the game.

Lordrosicky.5813:

This trait is terrible guys sorry. Conditional regen? Not really going to help vs 8k pistol whips or 12k ele bursts. Seriously this trait is one of the worst GM traits in the game.

Depends what they did at 5 15 and 25. If they did nothing there is an argument to be made it is pretty weak. That said, it is still way better than minion focused GM traits for someone who doesn’t use minions.

And to the discussion of it being in the wrong tree, it could be a buff you get going into DS that gives you “shrouded regeneration” increased by boon duration lasting in DS and 5 seconds after leaving DS or some such + boon duration. I wouldn’t pass judgement withouth knowing the mechanics yet.

Lordrosicky.5813:

This trait is terrible guys sorry. Conditional regen? Not really going to help vs 8k pistol whips or 12k ele bursts. Seriously this trait is one of the worst GM traits in the game.

I will wait and see before i make any judgement but if it is like Vamipire Signet it probably will be disappointing…

Lordrosicky.5813:

This trait is terrible guys sorry. Conditional regen? Not really going to help vs 8k pistol whips or 12k ele bursts. Seriously this trait is one of the worst GM traits in the game.

Sorry guy, but I totally disagree with your doomsday random number analysis on the trait’s usefulness.

Anchoku.8142:

Dhuumfire – condi requiring precision placed into the power line
Unholy Sanctuary – heal requiring healing placed in the toughness line

I have to reserve judgement until I try out the reworked DM tree but my first questions are whether the regen is corruptable or strippable, and whether the regen ends when the DS tranform ends. Players who pop in and out of DS can already configure for a small heal on exit but I doubt many do. What kind of build is 0/0/30/20/20? Wasting DS on “turtle” strategy does not have much appeal but it is too early too do more than speculate.

Still, I cannot help drawing parallels with Dhuumfire.

From what they wrote, it isn’t a boon, but rather a state-check with healing equivalent to the Regeneration boon.

So, the only way to stop the necro from regaining health would be to get them out of death shroud.

I can see this trait being decent, but we still need to not be totally immune to a boon when using our class mechanic.

Rennoko.5731:

Lordrosicky.5813:

This trait is terrible guys sorry. Conditional regen? Not really going to help vs 8k pistol whips or 12k ele bursts. Seriously this trait is one of the worst GM traits in the game.

Depends what they did at 5 15 and 25. If they did nothing there is an argument to be made it is pretty weak. That said, it is still way better than minion focused GM traits for someone who doesn’t use minions.

And to the discussion of it being in the wrong tree, it could be a buff you get going into DS that gives you “shrouded regeneration” increased by boon duration lasting in DS and 5 seconds after leaving DS or some such + boon duration. I wouldn’t pass judgement withouth knowing the mechanics yet.

It clearly isn’t a boon as said in the description. You guys can want it to be good all you like. Heck, I want it to be good. But mathematically it is just horrendus. 30 points for conditional regen? That really is all it is. In PvP I am talking about so maybe its good in PvE (probably is) but in PvP condition build it sucks. Could be better in power build But I doubt it.

Necro absolutely needs something not-MM in DM GM but the choice is odd. Why not just a toughness bonus or stability in DS?

I know picking the right skill is very difficult but this one ties vitality and toughness trait lines just like Dhuumfire as if sacrificing 30 pts int DM were not enough. Well, at least players with healing gear will see a very small improvement in regeneration but, in practical terms, I think only newer players who like turtling will use DS like that. DS was never designed for fleeing bad situations so I have to admit some surprise at the about face in design policy. Maximizing the regen by running away in DS without any CC… I do not know but will test it.