Guild Wars 2

I’m calling it right now:
Shroudbunkers 0/0/30/30/10

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

SNIP
Contrast this with thieves’ new Invigorating Precission whereby 5% of their critical attack damage will be returned as healing. One of the hardest hitting, fastest hitting professions with one of the best de facto attrition mechanics (stealth) now gets 5% of their DPS returned to them as health. You thought there was QQ-ing before about thieves, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. GG ArenaNet!

That trait would have been more appropriate for the Blood Magic line’s Vampiric Precision, for example. Instead, we get healing equivalent to a regen buff while in Death Shroud (a resource-dependent profession mechanic versus the thieves’ new always-on heal-on-crit) IF we spend 30 points in Death Magic.

To rub a little more salt into the wound, thieves’ Invigorating Precision is in their Critical Strikes line; the line that improves their critical hit chance so they can…you know…gain health on crit. Contrast this with Unholy Sanctuary; a trait that benefits from healing power in the toughness and boon duration line!

The devs are totally clueless when it comes to the necromancer’s attrition and sustain. You could throw darts at a board to which is pinned all of the necro’s traits and come up with better balance and synergy than these guys.

Whoo-Hooo! Let the rejoicing begin.

You should get your facts straight about the new thief trait. It is just as much garbage as the necromancer one. 5% of crits sounds like a lot until you actually look at the math. On a 10k crit you get 500hp and you certainly won’t be doing that every second or even every 10 seconds. You get 50 hp for every 1k of damage from a crit, that isn’t enough to sustain a thief. To put it another way if it takes 30k damage on average to kill an enemy and 75% of that damage is from crits, the thief only heals for a whopping 1125. Now look at what a thief has to give up in order to even get the trait. Executioner- Receive 20% extra damage on targets below 50% health. That choice is a no-brainer, a tiny heal or a massive damage boost…

Assuming this necro trait does regen level healing you’ll need to stay in DS for 7-8 seconds during a fight to equal a thiefs healing. The grass isn’t any greener, both lawns are baron dusty plots. As for the placement, yeah it’s stupid putting it in the death magic line but if they are reworking traitlines it might make sense.

Druss.6917:

Can’t believe no one has posted about the upcoming grandmaster trait yet. Thoughts?

It comes down what the rest of Death Magic will look like, but I feel reworking Death Magic is a good idea. I feel this patch can be revitalizing, but I guess we have to wait and see. It’s not just about the necro changes, but the overall picture.

I really don’t get why they don’t just scale down DS by a reasonable amount,give us access to more torment on weapons to fit our theme of not escaping,increase Lf Gain on staff 1/scep 3/spectral skills etc.,make base cd of Ds 7 sec,and let us use our utilities in Ds since the hp pool has been lowered and well need to heal and stun break more to survive.

Being able to use utilities in Ds would make spectral builds a reality since we can use them for stunbreak as to not just get stunned to death when we enter it and build up Lf while in DS,meanwhile 7s cd on would also make Ds dancing a reality as well.Counter play to it would be not to hit us if they see us use a spectral skill to build up more lf and just let it drain.Put the spectral traits in Soul Reaping to make us not to lose more damage since there defense skills and add a few more “when activating DS” or “every X amount of secs in DS”traits to Curses or something.

This would stop auto win with alot of lf and auto lose when theres none.These are all suggestions people give in the balance threads i read do the dev’s even look at the necro one?

On topic about the new heal?it sounds garbage no sort of attacking build will go for it leaving bunkerish ones and unless its MM what will happen is since i doubt they will make it heal much as usual people will target us in team fights Ds emptys we try to heal and get stunned as usual since still no stability….we really do not need this trait…..after the patch mesmers interrupts will be another profession where we have a lopsided matchup even alot of Lf wont save us from 10sec cd.

balmung.6217:

I really don’t get why they don’t just scale down DS by a reasonable amount,give us access to more torment on weapons to fit our theme of not escaping,increase Lf Gain on staff 1/scep 3/spectral skills etc.,make base cd of Ds 7 sec,and let us use our utilities in Ds since the hp pool has been lowered and well need to heal and stun break more to survive.

Torment = more DMG and we don’t need it.
—-
Necromancer: Unholy Sanctuary

It’s nice trait when you have 20/30 points in Death Magic and some healing power. Personally i’m w8ing only for Blood Magic (i have 20points there) and Soul Reaping(30points) grandmaster.

Yeah, because thieves totally needs that …

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Meld_with_Shadows
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow%27s_Rejuvenation
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Hide_in_Shadows
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Signet_of_Malice

ps: and it’s already compete with Executioner, which is just too good to give up for this

I, like many others, enjoyed the new defensive trait line. maybe to give more tenacity and MAYBE more mobility. great …. but …
‘’In addition to a bit of a trait line rework’’ …this is the real heartquake!!!!

prepare your feedback…. trust me.

kyubi.3620:

why run this trait? to run minion master of course… i was running 30 in death magic only because of death nova poison application but poison has little purpose in pve. Im still curious about what they doing to the death line.. i realy hope they dont make MM weaker as a result of this however…

Death Nova is pretty good skill both in PvP and PvE because it includes direct damage with the poison. I am not sure what this new skill will do for a PVT MM. Minions can already siphon health. DS and staff can heal minions There are lots of ways to heal minions or heal the MM. Chosing a regen while in DS over Nova seems like a downgrade. I want them to die so Nova is very useful. A small regen like that is only attractive in non-MM builds.

I hope the reworked DM line offers more options. Right now it focuses almost entirely on MM with two staff buffs. TBH, I would not be surprised if Unholy Turtle was made for a bunker staff/wells build. We will see after the update.

Mesmer: Power Block
Enemies of mesmers beware: they’ve learned how to mess with your skill recharge! The new trait for mesmers allows them to gain additional benefit when disrupting enemy skills. Power Block will be introduced to the Domination line and will change the recharge of an interrupted skill from 5 seconds to 10 seconds. This will not affect skills that have no recharge, but I’d imagine that stopping a necromancer from consuming conditions would surely put a nail in their coffin.

LOL, is this real life?

Nice I-win button – where is mine?

pierwola.9602:

balmung.6217:

I really don’t get why they don’t just scale down DS by a reasonable amount,give us access to more torment on weapons to fit our theme of not escaping,increase Lf Gain on staff 1/scep 3/spectral skills etc.,make base cd of Ds 7 sec,and let us use our utilities in Ds since the hp pool has been lowered and well need to heal and stun break more to survive.

Torment = more DMG and we don’t need it.
—-
Necromancer: Unholy Sanctuary

It’s nice trait when you have 20/30 points in Death Magic and some healing power. Personally i’m w8ing only for Blood Magic (i have 20points there) and Soul Reaping(30points) grandmaster.

Yeh i see what you mean.I guess they could get rid of dhuum and give us torment in exchange or something.I still rather have those suggestions that people posted above for more reactionary play than what we have now which is basically spam staff auto attack till enough LF throw out conditions fear if there silly enough to heal in our face then sit in ds till its clear or we get focused and prolong death anyway or bursted down cause not enough Lf.

Balmung, dig through the weapon discussions. In there I specifically requested a short-range, 2H, bleed applicator with cleave and torment to compliment the scepter along with a long range weapon for single-target damage and CC as an alternate to staff. The only attack really effective against Tequatl is staff’s Grasping at Straws.

Just re-read the Necro one – it’s a regen buff in DS?

That’s it?

For a GM trait in our worst line?

Why bother?

As i said before this trait will likely only be good for minion masters or other DM user (likely more well-o-mancer bunkers). Death nova isnt that much of a use in PVE but in pvp can be important as a poison source. Again its all in the eye of the believers… Since they plan on making reanimator merge with death nova MM might be inclined to run Death nova instead but in pvp one might prefer to run the new trait in order to bunker stuff up.

Some of my fellow brethren need to chill out.

From studying the other profession forums I saw that nearly no profession liked their own revealed trait. May it be because it wasn’t in the present meta, felt UP next to the other GMs or simply was in an unpopular traitline (as is the case here).
For me that means that the new traits will most likely cater to niche builds and enable more diverse builds, which I’m a fan of. Plus in our case a rework of the DM traitline was announced so it minors may be more focused on healing, who knows?
I am actually thinking of reviving my old WvW Bunker Wellomancer and tinkering with the new GM, except another one of the new traits catches my eye.

Speaking of the other GMs: make sure to watch todays ‘Ready Up’ before anymore speculation, as all new traits will be presented there.

“I believe it when i see it” Is the general consensus of the players on this subforum.

I think almost all professions, except warrior and mesmer, have gotten stuff they should have had from day one..

I do appreciate the dev’s taking note of the wishes of players, let’s hope siphon, Vamp sig, and the new traits become somewhat viable and also that they make fear interrupt like it should.

Also a Shame it’s in the DM traitline..
Then again, i still don’t care much about this new trait as long as our bug’s arn’t fixed

Edit: And normal/party healing working when we are in DS

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Godless.1857:

So with the news here – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

including:

Necromancer: Unholy Sanctuary
In addition to a bit of a trait line rework, the necromancer’s Death Magic will be gaining the ability to heal your health pool while Death Shroud is active. Unholy Sanctuary allows you to turtle in your Death Shroud and slowly heal yourself, granting you additional survivability in situations that might otherwise spell certain death. The healing rate of Unholy Sanctuary is the same as the regeneration boon and will be affected by healing power.

Let the wild speculation and maybe even a little rejoicing begin!

Sorry, can’t rejoice over this. It will be a Grandmaster Trait in the Death Magic line. So, to obtain the sustain that is supposed to be a hallmark of the class (LOL)

The net effect will be to do nothing but extend by a couple seconds/one or two additional hits our already delayed yet inevitable death at the hands of focus fire and CC spam. The min/maxing armchair theory crafting aside, the trait will still fail to deliver the sustain and attrition this class needs. It’s another missed opportunity and failure à la Signet of Vampirism.

Contrast this with thieves’ new Invigorating Precission whereby 5% of their critical attack damage will be returned as healing. One of the hardest hitting, fastest hitting professions with one of the best de facto attrition mechanics (stealth) now gets 5% of their DPS returned to them as health. You thought there was QQ-ing before about thieves, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. GG ArenaNet!

That trait would have been more appropriate for the Blood Magic line’s Vampiric Precision, for example. Instead, we get healing equivalent to a regen buff while in Death Shroud (a resource-dependent profession mechanic versus the thieves’ new always-on heal-on-crit) IF we spend 30 points in Death Magic.

To rub a little more salt into the wound, thieves’ Invigorating Precision is in their Critical Strikes line; the line that improves their critical hit chance so they can…you know…gain health on crit. Contrast this with Unholy Sanctuary; a trait that benefits from healing power in the toughness and boon duration line!

The devs are totally clueless when it comes to the necromancer’s attrition and sustain. You could throw darts at a board to which is pinned all of the necro’s traits and come up with better balance and synergy than these guys.

Whoo-Hooo! Let the rejoicing begin.

Great post dude. Seriously good post.

This is my view from a PvP perspective also. The trait is useless. Regeneration is kind of bad on its own. Healing for 70 /second isn’t going to do much against 7k pistol whips or 5k arching arrows, or just condition spam.

It is totally worthless as a trait. Seen as they are destroying condi necro at the next patch then we should get some proper sustain finally. It is stupid we get no dodges, no blocks, no invulns, no stealth, no nothing. We are the ultimate glass cannon even when we try to spec tanky. We either kill or get killed. Which isn’t how necromancer should play out given its lack of mobility. We should have incredible sustain.

The condi necro in pvp without dhuumfire will be the worst class in game. They have already added/buffed many traits (immunities) and skills (immunities and condi cleanse) on MANY classes which are condition hate. As a profession we are pigeon-holed into the condition role and so this is a massive nerf to us. In addition they have attacked our bleeds, our terror damage, our weakness uptime and many other things. And now they are essentially removing burning from condition specs. So where does this leave us? Not in a good place unfortunately. And our hopes lie in two areas:

1, A serious buff to sustain – relolving around the death magic line – we already see a GM trait which doesn’t help at all
2, A good curses GM trait – this is vital to the future of condi necro

This GM trait should be a 5 point minor trait in the DM line. That is how weak it is.

sorrow.2364:

I’m calling it right now:
Shroudbunkers 0/0/30/30/10

Not gonna be running that particular build, BUT it is about time we as a (supposedly) attrition class can bunker!

The new balance changes mentioned here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/runes-sigils-and-balance-updates/

Also make me a very very happy necro!

Tommyknocker.6089:

sorrow.2364:

I’m calling it right now:
Shroudbunkers 0/0/30/30/10

Not gonna be running that particular build, BUT it is about time we as a (supposedly) attrition class can bunker!

The new balance changes mentioned here:

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/runes-sigils-and-balance-updates/

Also make me a very very happy necro!

Very interesting change talk, we’ll see how it looks. Dare I say I am excited for them.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Healing for 70 /second isn’t going to do much against 7k pistol whips or 5k arching arrows, or just condition spam.

Did you get 70/second from the Ready Up? I don’t think that has aired yet. What information we do have is that it is potentially like the Regeneration boon. Here’s some info on it that others have mentioned but you seemed to not read:

The Regeneration boon grants healing over time determined by the following formula:

(5 + (1.5625 * Level)) + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second
At level 80 this is:

130 + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

At 650 Healing Power, you’re looking at 130 + 81.25 = 211.25 health/sec.

It isn’t the 1000 health/sec people seem to need to see to not discount a heal, or the 2000 health/sec that is probably required for GM acceptance, but it’s not 70/sec.

So why exactly would I trust your opinion on its usefulness as a trait? It isn’t going to be end-all be-all, but it could be just what you need to take Necro bunker to the next level.

Or maybe it won’t be.

But no one has used it yet, so bolded comments that it’s trash are the silliest response.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I think almost all professions, except warrior and mesmer, have gotten stuff they should have had from day one..

It sure seems like net had a whole team working on polishing the game for the Chinese launch, a team that many of us were hoping was working on an expansion.

Are these the new Death Magic Minor Traits?

We’re moving some traits around and making room for Armored Shroud, which grants bonus toughness while in Death Shroud, and Soul Comprehension, which increases the base life-force gain from surrounding deaths.

CastIron.7364:

Some of my fellow brethren need to chill out.

From studying the other profession forums I saw that nearly no profession liked their own revealed trait. May it be because it wasn’t in the present meta, felt UP next to the other GMs or simply was in an unpopular traitline (as is the case here).
For me that means that the new traits will most likely cater to niche builds and enable more diverse builds, which I’m a fan of. Plus in our case a rework of the DM traitline was announced so it minors may be more focused on healing, who knows?
I am actually thinking of reviving my old WvW Bunker Wellomancer and tinkering with the new GM, except another one of the new traits catches my eye.

Speaking of the other GMs: make sure to watch todays ‘Ready Up’ before anymore speculation, as all new traits will be presented there.

I find it hard to believe Mesmers would be upset with their Trait, but nothing can please everyone.

What I’m most excited about is the instance Trait Respec. I play Minion build almost exclusively because that’s what my Traits are specced for and I don’t want to be bothered going back to the Trainer every time I want to change things up.
I’m very excited to run Wellomancer more and try out some of the interesting user posted builds.

nekretaal.6485:

Are these the new Death Magic Minor Traits?

We’re moving some traits around and making room for Armored Shroud, which grants bonus toughness while in Death Shroud, and Soul Comprehension, which increases the base life-force gain from surrounding deaths.

I truly hope so, I am so sick of the bloody undead rat when I don’t even use minions.

Just to add in the info from the link tommyknocker posted, specific to necro’s:

Necromancer
Quite a few changes are being made to the necromancer. With this update, we continue our focus on survivability and attrition. Dhuumfire is being unified for PvE and PvP and moved to Life Blast instead of requiring the necro to critically hit an enemy. The Death Magic line has been reworked and restructured slightly so that minions are no longer a required element of that trait line. We’re moving some traits around and making room for Armored Shroud, which grants bonus toughness while in Death Shroud, and Soul Comprehension, which increases the base life-force gain from surrounding deaths.

I also feel that the following will affect many builds as well -

On-Kill sigils (those sigils which trigger when you kill something) have received an update as well. The functionality of each sigil has changed so that killing a player is worth five stacks of a sigil in any game mode, while killing a monster only grants one stack. This type of sigil will have more strict rules applied on them, so that a player will no longer be able to gain 25 stacks and then un-equip the sigil.

5 points per player kill seems nice for Necomancer pvp with risk/reward.

Necromancers seem to tag everything, so getting 15 or more points just for winning a scrum at a capture point should be easy.

It is excellent for the likes of 0/20/30/20/0 wellmancers and such.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Lordrosicky.5813:

Healing for 70 /second isn’t going to do much against 7k pistol whips or 5k arching arrows, or just condition spam.

Did you get 70/second from the Ready Up? I don’t think that has aired yet. What information we do have is that it is potentially like the Regeneration boon. Here’s some info on it that others have mentioned but you seemed to not read:

The Regeneration boon grants healing over time determined by the following formula:

(5 + (1.5625 * Level)) + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second
At level 80 this is:

130 + (0.125 * Healing Power) per second

At 650 Healing Power, you’re looking at 130 + 81.25 = 211.25 health/sec.

It isn’t the 1000 health/sec people seem to need to see to not discount a heal, or the 2000 health/sec that is probably required for GM acceptance, but it’s not 70/sec.

So why exactly would I trust your opinion on its usefulness as a trait? It isn’t going to be end-all be-all, but it could be just what you need to take Necro bunker to the next level.

Or maybe it won’t be.

But no one has used it yet, so bolded comments that it’s trash are the silliest response.

Because we are already familiar with the healing obtained from the Regeneration boon. We’re also familiar with the focus fire and CC spam that necros are subjected to when in DS, reducing the effective up-time of this new trait. Given the following:

“The healing rate of Unholy Sanctuary is the same as the regeneration boon and will be affected by healing power.”

we can infer that the healing obtained from a regen boon while in Death Shroud is nowhere near enough to provide a significant improvement to our sustain.

With the necro’s lack of other defense and escape mechanics, the paltry healing provided by a regen buff will only buy us another second or two of life after dropping out of DS as the health we regened will barely absorb more than one or two auto-attacks at best; nothing more.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Godless.1857:

So with the news here – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

including:

Necromancer: Unholy Sanctuary
In addition to a bit of a trait line rework, the necromancer’s Death Magic will be gaining the ability to heal your health pool while Death Shroud is active. Unholy Sanctuary allows you to turtle in your Death Shroud and slowly heal yourself, granting you additional survivability in situations that might otherwise spell certain death. The healing rate of Unholy Sanctuary is the same as the regeneration boon and will be affected by healing power.

Let the wild speculation and maybe even a little rejoicing begin!

Sorry, can’t rejoice over this. It will be a Grandmaster Trait in the Death Magic line. So, to obtain the sustain that is supposed to be a hallmark of the class (LOL)

The net effect will be to do nothing but extend by a couple seconds/one or two additional hits our already delayed yet inevitable death at the hands of focus fire and CC spam. The min/maxing armchair theory crafting aside, the trait will still fail to deliver the sustain and attrition this class needs. It’s another missed opportunity and failure à la Signet of Vampirism.

Contrast this with thieves’ new Invigorating Precission whereby 5% of their critical attack damage will be returned as healing. One of the hardest hitting, fastest hitting professions with one of the best de facto attrition mechanics (stealth) now gets 5% of their DPS returned to them as health. You thought there was QQ-ing before about thieves, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. GG ArenaNet!

That trait would have been more appropriate for the Blood Magic line’s Vampiric Precision, for example. Instead, we get healing equivalent to a regen buff while in Death Shroud (a resource-dependent profession mechanic versus the thieves’ new always-on heal-on-crit) IF we spend 30 points in Death Magic.

To rub a little more salt into the wound, thieves’ Invigorating Precision is in their Critical Strikes line; the line that improves their critical hit chance so they can…you know…gain health on crit. Contrast this with Unholy Sanctuary; a trait that benefits from healing power in the toughness and boon duration line!

The devs are totally clueless when it comes to the necromancer’s attrition and sustain. You could throw darts at a board to which is pinned all of the necro’s traits and come up with better balance and synergy than these guys.

Whoo-Hooo! Let the rejoicing begin.

Great post dude. Seriously good post.

This is my view from a PvP perspective also. The trait is useless. Regeneration is kind of bad on its own. Healing for 70 /second isn’t going to do much against 7k pistol whips or 5k arching arrows, or just condition spam.

It is totally worthless as a trait. Seen as they are destroying condi necro at the next patch then we should get some proper sustain finally. It is stupid we get no dodges, no blocks, no invulns, no stealth, no nothing. We are the ultimate glass cannon even when we try to spec tanky. We either kill or get killed. Which isn’t how necromancer should play out given its lack of mobility. We should have incredible sustain.

The condi necro in pvp without dhuumfire will be the worst class in game. They have already added/buffed many traits (immunities) and skills (immunities and condi cleanse) on MANY classes which are condition hate. As a profession we are pigeon-holed into the condition role and so this is a massive nerf to us. In addition they have attacked our bleeds, our terror damage, our weakness uptime and many other things. And now they are essentially removing burning from condition specs. So where does this leave us? Not in a good place unfortunately. And our hopes lie in two areas:

1, A serious buff to sustain – relolving around the death magic line – we already see a GM trait which doesn’t help at all
2, A good curses GM trait – this is vital to the future of condi necro

This GM trait should be a 5 point minor trait in the DM line. That is how weak it is.

The devs dont live in reality but in PvEland.

Lordrosicky.5813:

Kraag Deadsoul.2789:

Godless.1857:

So with the news here – https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/traits-unleashed-forty-new-traits-and-more/

including:

Necromancer: Unholy Sanctuary
In addition to a bit of a trait line rework, the necromancer’s Death Magic will be gaining the ability to heal your health pool while Death Shroud is active. Unholy Sanctuary allows you to turtle in your Death Shroud and slowly heal yourself, granting you additional survivability in situations that might otherwise spell certain death. The healing rate of Unholy Sanctuary is the same as the regeneration boon and will be affected by healing power.

Let the wild speculation and maybe even a little rejoicing begin!

Sorry, can’t rejoice over this. It will be a Grandmaster Trait in the Death Magic line. So, to obtain the sustain that is supposed to be a hallmark of the class (LOL)

The net effect will be to do nothing but extend by a couple seconds/one or two additional hits our already delayed yet inevitable death at the hands of focus fire and CC spam. The min/maxing armchair theory crafting aside, the trait will still fail to deliver the sustain and attrition this class needs. It’s another missed opportunity and failure à la Signet of Vampirism.

Contrast this with thieves’ new Invigorating Precission whereby 5% of their critical attack damage will be returned as healing. One of the hardest hitting, fastest hitting professions with one of the best de facto attrition mechanics (stealth) now gets 5% of their DPS returned to them as health. You thought there was QQ-ing before about thieves, you ain’t seen nothin’ yet. GG ArenaNet!

That trait would have been more appropriate for the Blood Magic line’s Vampiric Precision, for example. Instead, we get healing equivalent to a regen buff while in Death Shroud (a resource-dependent profession mechanic versus the thieves’ new always-on heal-on-crit) IF we spend 30 points in Death Magic.

To rub a little more salt into the wound, thieves’ Invigorating Precision is in their Critical Strikes line; the line that improves their critical hit chance so they can…you know…gain health on crit. Contrast this with Unholy Sanctuary; a trait that benefits from healing power in the toughness and boon duration line!

The devs are totally clueless when it comes to the necromancer’s attrition and sustain. You could throw darts at a board to which is pinned all of the necro’s traits and come up with better balance and synergy than these guys.

Whoo-Hooo! Let the rejoicing begin.

Great post dude. Seriously good post.

This is my view from a PvP perspective also. The trait is useless. Regeneration is kind of bad on its own. Healing for 70 /second isn’t going to do much against 7k pistol whips or 5k arching arrows, or just condition spam.

It is totally worthless as a trait. Seen as they are destroying condi necro at the next patch then we should get some proper sustain finally. It is stupid we get no dodges, no blocks, no invulns, no stealth, no nothing. We are the ultimate glass cannon even when we try to spec tanky. We either kill or get killed. Which isn’t how necromancer should play out given its lack of mobility. We should have incredible sustain.

The condi necro in pvp without dhuumfire will be the worst class in game. They have already added/buffed many traits (immunities) and skills (immunities and condi cleanse) on MANY classes which are condition hate. As a profession we are pigeon-holed into the condition role and so this is a massive nerf to us. In addition they have attacked our bleeds, our terror damage, our weakness uptime and many other things. And now they are essentially removing burning from condition specs. So where does this leave us? Not in a good place unfortunately. And our hopes lie in two areas:

1, A serious buff to sustain – relolving around the death magic line – we already see a GM trait which doesn’t help at all
2, A good curses GM trait – this is vital to the future of condi necro

This GM trait should be a 5 point minor trait in the DM line. That is how weak it is.

Pretty much this.

A kittening regen buff as a GM trait… it is laughable.

And if the amount of regeneration it provided was enough to ward off focus fire or concentrated CC spam, it would be wildly imbalanced.

I get it, Kraag. This is your way of saying “where is our block/invuln?”, but I’m still not sold it’s the answer. All it would do is delay your inevitable death by 3 seconds instead of 1 second, since you’re talking PvP.

I already have a few ideas for fiddling around in this trait.

And as far as “incredible sustain” is concerned, Lordro, define how many people you expect to sustain against, for how long, and what sort of trait/utility/stat commitment it requires. I’ll wait.

Cogbyrn.7283:

And if the amount of regeneration it provided was enough to ward off focus fire or concentrated CC spam, it would be wildly imbalanced.

I get it, Kraag. This is your way of saying “where is our block/invuln?”, but I’m still not sold it’s the answer. All it would do is delay your inevitable death by 3 seconds instead of 1 second, since you’re talking PvP.

I already have a few ideas for fiddling around in this trait.

And as far as “incredible sustain” is concerned, Lordro, define how many people you expect to sustain against, for how long, and what sort of trait/utility/stat commitment it requires. I’ll wait.

I don’t want necros to be given a block or invulnerability; I’ve even posted that multiple times in other posts over the course of the last year and a half. I do want something that is unique to necros, though, that – functionally – achieves the same results.

The assumption that warding off focus fire or concentrated CC spam would be wildly imbalanced does not bear out. It would if it had permanent up-time; but that’s not what I or anyone else is asking. There are ways to grant such immunity while still keeping it balanced (e.g. time limited, scaling with number of opponents, etc.)

Think invulnerability, think blink, think evade, etc. These mechanics already exist in the game, grant the ability to absorb or avoid infinite damage while in effect, yet are not imbalanced. But when it comes to necros we haven’t access to any of that, yet are told to facetank everything by relying on an extra health bar (and only an extra health bar). Extra health is near useless in this game; it just delays the inevitable.

All I’m asking is we be given the tools to fulfill that mandate. Death Shroud in its current form – and even with the newly revealed GM traits – is not that mechanic. It gives the impression of lazy implementation and lack of creativity; as if they ran out of time and couldn’t come up with a truly effective and innovative solution to the problem of necro sustain and attrition other than repurposing our downed mechanic to become our profession mechanic. Oh, wait…that IS what they did.

I feel like you’ve spent too much time on the soapbox that you’ve lost sight of how the game actually operates. That’s the impression I’m getting.

The thing is, Block/Invuln/Evade aren’t creative solutions. Necros have a form of Blink if you prepare Flesh Wurm properly. Spectral Armor + Death Shroud absorbs a heck of a lot of damage for its duration. In fact, compared to the other classes in the game, Death Shroud is a unique mechanic that tries to be a different solution to the sustain problem besides the typical Guardian formula or some sort of evade-spam cheese. You don’t want Block, you don’t want Invulnerability, but you want a “creative” mechanism to basically mimic Block and Invulnerability. To be honest, SA + DS is about as close as that gets. Something that scales with # of opponents has to have a cap, and I can’t help but think it quickly turns into a balancing nightmare.

I’d rather they give us an option other than Well of Darkness, Plague Form, or a convoluted Flesh Wurm + Spectral Walk combo to successfully stomp on the first attempt for those classes without a stomp evade. I fought a Thief and Mesmer (yes I know they both have stomp evades so it’s a terrible situation to begin with) 1v2 in WvW earlier tonight, and even though they didn’t seem to know what they were doing, I basically had to sit and watch the Thief get brought up once, then take him down again, then take the Mesmer down and try to stomp him as well. I didn’t even end up stomping the Mesmer, and it ended up close because of the Confusion stacks he was able to apply while downed. I’m 99% sure the Thief let me stomp him without using his abilities, perhaps because he felt bad.

I’m still waiting for someone to give me numbers on what they expect. How long should a Necro last 1v1 against the heaviest hitting builds? How about 1v2? 1vX? Can an elite be involved in that scenario? How many utilities/trait points should have to be dedicated at a minimum for that level of survival? What kind of damage do you expect to output with that level of survival?

EXCELLENT?
Dudes, Thieves and Mesmers can heal and regen under Stealth, Warriors can heal while immune to effects, Engineers are costantly healing, Guardians have multiple way of healing…
Guess WHO can’t heal under his Profession peculiar Mechanic?

They must allow at least to get the 50% of our self healings and allow Transfusion to heal for his full potential under DS (40 seconds cooldown on Transfusion is enough to balance this).

Too many people aren’t reading the part where they said every trait line is getting a new grandmaster trait. Not only the one listed.

Zach.3264:

Too many people aren’t reading the part where they said every trait line is getting a new grandmaster trait. Not only the one listed.

A pity that the other 4 traits have their issues as well.
Did you check em?
What’s your point in trying to guess what other people know?

Biased, perhaps, but using our own class mechanic turns off 6 traits (soon to be 7) as well as negating allied support to us (outside of boon spam). Necros are the only profession to be able to go immune to a boon, and on top of that, we frequently have to make the choice of getting healing or simply surviving for a few more seconds. No other profession has to make that decision, as they get both with their defenses.

Some method of healing through death shroud is kind of required. More than Unholy Sanctuary (at the very least, letting all of our own traits keep working through it!).

And what do we say to the new Necro GM Traits ? Not today !

Falcon.8713:

And what do we say to the new Necro GM Traits ? Not today !

Yes please. I can think of builds to try that use every one of them. Some might be sub-par (Unholy Sanctuary, Unholy Martyr depends on if it pulls 1 condition/3 seconds or 1 condition/ally/3 seconds), but I can see use for all of them. With the free trait-swapping coming, I see all of them getting use.

I do agree that healing in death shroud should be possible, but not like have our healing skill. But it’s stupid that we can cast well of blood and lose the healing because of death shroud, or our multiple sources of regen that is negated from death shroud, or the siphons or parasitic bond, or heals from any other player.

Give us that and we should have our sustain improved dramatically, but it won’t make us much stronger at all in 1v1s where death shroud is strongest.

Scarran.9845:

Im on the fence when it comes to the new skill on one sense im pleased were getting something that will heal our health whilst in DS. But on the other hand it confirms that we will never ever get it so that regen and heals from party members will effect our health pool.

I have been thinking how I could fit this new trait into my build and to be honest its a nice addition but the loss I get from having to go 30 points into DM far outweighs the benefit but it will be nice for those bunker builds if they eventually find a use for them in the game.

Otherwise I shall wait and see what other changes we have in store, but as I said i’m pretty much on the fence about it until we see if its a proper heal or a signet of vampirism heal.

If you didn’t read you won’t be going 30 points into anything with the new trait system bro sorry to reply so late didn’t get a chance to look at this. you’ll be putting 6 points in instead and the trait system will be reworked too so no more 70 points to put anywhere. Read what they put down before reading traits. It’s gonna be like GW as they said.

Souldestructor.9576:

Scarran.9845:

Im on the fence when it comes to the new skill on one sense im pleased were getting something that will heal our health whilst in DS. But on the other hand it confirms that we will never ever get it so that regen and heals from party members will effect our health pool.

I have been thinking how I could fit this new trait into my build and to be honest its a nice addition but the loss I get from having to go 30 points into DM far outweighs the benefit but it will be nice for those bunker builds if they eventually find a use for them in the game.

Otherwise I shall wait and see what other changes we have in store, but as I said i’m pretty much on the fence about it until we see if its a proper heal or a signet of vampirism heal.

If you didn’t read you won’t be going 30 points into anything with the new trait system bro sorry to reply so late didn’t get a chance to look at this. you’ll be putting 6 points in instead and the trait system will be reworked too so no more 70 points to put anywhere. Read what they put down before reading traits. It’s gonna be like GW as they said.

I did see that the points are changing and read all about the trait changes but whilst typing it out my brain was still in old trait points mode rather than new trait points mode. I can guarantee it won’t be the last time I make that mistake when talking about traits, thats until I get to use the new system.

Whether its 30 or 6 points it still wont matter as with my current build going fully up the toughness tree will lose too much damage for that GM trait to be viable. That is also taking into consideration the changes to crit damage with this new ferocity stat. I just envision me taking points out elsewhere in order to get a small health regen. Unless you know that you’re not going to be getting focused on or you know you can last a long time in DS I just don’t see a need for using this trait.

Thanks for pointing it out though.

Unholy Sanctuary seems to be decent only with high Healing Power cohefficients.
In Cleric gear(1300HealingPower) the regeneration was 305 every second, while without healing power it was around 100.
So it’s usable just by Death Shroud centered bunker builds which rely on Healing Power……
Do not forget that it requires Vital Persistence to work at its “full” potential….
Too many restrictions for a mediocre trait.