Guild Wars 2

Dont get me wrong, i just love the class concept, but i never got used to the weapon sets. They are so…unfun. Scepter that does “blob…blob…blob”, staff clumsy ground targeting, axe not melee nor really ranged. Dagger is fun but at higher levels you just spent most of the time laying on your back or flying around. And autoattack isnt really fun.

I really love the underwater weapon sets, they feel “necromancy” and are a joy to watch. They feel fluent. Why cant we have spears out of water…

Lastly having played a ranger fairly high level, i must say that i thought the necro is the master of conditions, but i stack bleeds, poison, even burning much faster on my ranger, while the necro needs to plaster the floor with signs or use skills to get a decent stack running. Is it just me or is even the engineer a better master of conditions? Ok, epidemic saves the day in spreading around the stuff but in the end i feel more condition heavy on other classes.

Short, the necro feels pretty passive in gameplay, while other classes seem so much more dynamic. I guess with a rework of the weapon sets this class would be so much more fun.

youre doing it wrong

…thanks for your intelligent reply. Why did you answer again to my post?

The Necromancer has plenty of very active playstyles if you want them. However, the class has a much slower feel in general than almost any other, so you aren’t going to get the feeling of fast-paced combat like with an Ele.

Also, Necros are the undisputed master of conditions in every possible way. The only reason other classes are ever better is because there is something besides their conditions that makes them better suited to the meta of whatever, and doesn’t have to do with the conditions themselves nearly as much.

Sure, they can push conditions here and there, but when i compare how fast a ranger hast a full stack of bleeds + poison (even faster with cat/spider or devourer) chills by switching to axe or vuln with longbow up and what a necro has to do to archive that (not talking about signet), isnt it much slower?

Is this about PvE or WvW/PvP? I mean PvE even a Necro should go for direc damage.

Comparing here PvP.

fashion.6712:

but i stack bleeds, poison, even burning much faster on my ranger

Then you’re definitely playing your Necro wrong.

fashion.6712:

..or use skills to get a decent stack running.

using skills is kind of the point of the game?

He’s not doing anything wrong.

1. Necromancer weapon sets just don’t have that synergy between the skills the way that warrior skills do (guardian weapon sets are even better). If you play staff or axe, you are stuck with a lousy auto attack that you have to use because of cooldown timers, if you play dagger or scepter, you are stuck with underwhelming or unnecessary 2 or 3, which causes you to be a 1 spammer most of the time.

2. Other classes can burst conditions better than necromancer, Other classes can sustain conditions better then necromancer. I don’t know how this is a dispute. Necromancer has epidemic (overrated), and dagger 4/staff 4 (good but constantly nerfed), to go with signet of spite and corrupt boon. These are why Necromancer’s are titled masters of condition, but three of these are conditional in pvp and situational/useless in PvE.

Being the Master of Conditions isn’t necessarily just about applying conditions quickly. If a Ranger applies all of those condis, you send them back. If he does it again, you send them back again. You can even send them all back again. You can turn a Ranger’s elite stability into Fear, then juggle what they thought was a safe period for damage/running.

Necros really manipulate the condi/boon game. Hard. As a Power Necro, I can still mess with condi Engis because their quick application makes it really easy to drop a Putrid Mark and Plague Signet to really put the hurt back on them with basically no consequence to me. I have no real condition damage, but that doesn’t matter. What matters is that I’m controlling where the conditions are when I’m involved better than any other class.

Staff’s ground-targeting is also a god-send, in my opinion. What else do you have that can actively work to control a situation where an enemy is stealthed? From simply using MoB for detection, Chillblains to slow their movement, a timely fear behind you to get them off your back, etc. Even if they dodge your marks, you still know about where they are, and that’s extremely useful information. Also, you can cast them behind you, which gives you a lot of freedom of movement, since forward motion is much faster than strafing.

I use dagger MH, and it isn’t really for #1 and I hardly ever use #2 (though I need to find more times to work it in, since it channels through a stealth). The Immobilize is insanely awesome, especially when combo’d with something like Spectral Grasp. You don’t do damage with #1 (at least I don’t try), you use it to gain LF. If you’re being ping-ponged around that badly, then your team isn’t doing anything to them and you’re dying 1v4, or you blow Spectral Armor, go into DS, and just ride the waves for a bit while they get it out of their system. Then it’s back to it.

I guess I just like all of the weapons, and I’ve found good uses for them all. Axe I don’t use in PvP anymore, or PvE really since I’d rather just Dagger it up, but I absolutely love the rest of the weapon sets.

If you don’t though, that’s fine. Just know that there are others who really appreciate them. Perhaps Necro isn’t your playstyle, because you want something different out of your class.

nekretaal.6485:

He’s not doing anything wrong.

1. Necromancer weapon sets just don’t have that synergy between the skills the way that warrior skills do (guardian weapon sets are even better). If you play staff or axe, you are stuck with a lousy auto attack that you have to use because of cooldown timers, if you play dagger or scepter, you are stuck with underwhelming or unnecessary 2 or 3, which causes you to be a 1 spammer most of the time.

2. Other classes can burst conditions better than necromancer, Other classes can sustain conditions better then necromancer. I don’t know how this is a dispute. Necromancer has epidemic (overrated), and dagger 4/staff 4 (good but constantly nerfed), to go with signet of spite and corrupt boon. These are why Necromancer’s are titled masters of condition, but three of these are conditional in pvp and situational/useless in PvE.

You don’t seem to understand this class very well either.

I wish I could give more precise feedback as to why, but basically every single thing you’ve just said is wrong.

I still think necromancer is the master of conditions. Scepter autos are nasty and necromancer’s don’t have to put up with their opponents/own conditions being on themselves like other condition classes which fall apart. I don’t have a condition necro myself, but my siphoning necro has anything but another necromancer in a panic once I throw their own conditions back on them, truly a sad sight.

Though I completely agree with our weapons being boring or not synergizing well together. I personally have a lot of fun with my d/d staff siphoning necro, but given the change to use a proper 2h melee or ranged weapon and I won’t even be using it for it’s condition removal. I have an idea for a cqc exchanging weapon based around hammer and it sounds far more fun than anything on this class easily.

nekretaal.6485:

He’s not doing anything wrong.

1. Necromancer weapon sets just don’t have that synergy between the skills the way that warrior skills do (guardian weapon sets are even better). If you play staff or axe, you are stuck with a lousy auto attack that you have to use because of cooldown timers, if you play dagger or scepter, you are stuck with underwhelming or unnecessary 2 or 3, which causes you to be a 1 spammer most of the time.

2. Other classes can burst conditions better than necromancer, Other classes can sustain conditions better then necromancer. I don’t know how this is a dispute. Necromancer has epidemic (overrated), and dagger 4/staff 4 (good but constantly nerfed), to go with signet of spite and corrupt boon. These are why Necromancer’s are titled masters of condition, but three of these are conditional in pvp and situational/useless in PvE.

So dagger 4 has actually been buffed. For a very long time it was one condition per bounce. Staff 4 got boned, that I completely agree with.

Necro has one of the largest availability of quick to apply conditions, it just doesn’t necessarily stack up BLEEDS specifically as quickly as say a warrior.

Also scepter 2 is one of the best skills in the game… a large aoe, quick cast, cripple, and bleeds, no facing requirement. Also scepter 3 does exactly what it needs to do, which is generate life force on a weapon set that has no generation… the only challenge is landing it with enough conditions on the target to make it valuable.

I find the necro condition weapons have some of the best synergy of any class and set in the game. I won’t argue axe/dagger, as I find them horribly disjoined and confused, but scepter/(really any offhand) staff has a very good synergy.

Leaning on the proc effects, quick use of DS 2 and scepter 2, can quickly stack up 10 bleeds without an issue with just a few auto attacks. And those auto attacks can stack poison, bleed, burning, weakness, torment, vulnerability, confusion – all from 900 range with no projectile…. assuming you have the right build (WvW).

PvP is quite a bit more problematic… you don’t get the fun sigil and rune procs, you get MOB and scepter 2 nerfed, and dumbfire nerfed, and I am sure DS2 is on the chopping block next. So if all you do is PVP there is some merit to our issues with stacking bleeds quickly now, but not at all in WvW.

My first statement was “unfun”. As in boring to use compared to other classes’ weapon sets. There isnt much happening that i connect with a necromancer in my mind. Staff Mesmer is fun. Staff Ele is fun. Necro isnt. Thats just me. Spear underwater is so much more pure evil carnage.

What do i do wrong with conditions? Example Rangers: Traps and Pet and Shortbow is an amazong fast, spammable Condition source. The only auto condition on Necro is scepter and in the time you built up a decent stack, the ranger maxed them long ago.

Sure, the Necro can spread, return and push around conditions. On a cooldown. Same i can purge myself as a ranger off the returned condis and have full stacks up on the enemy in no time.

I feel like that there should be a weapon set for a conditionmancer, like there is a condition set for rangers or warriors or mesmers.

in any PVE enviroment , my thief is a better condition applicator with D/D Death Blossom and Caltrops , Same goes for Shortbow Ranger … but that’s it , application not sustainment

PVP is another story. My auto attacks keep constant bleeds and poison , i can make them Vulnerable , Corrupt their Vigor , have them nearly perma Weakened through Dagger and Staff 3+4 Combo … Chill them and gain lifeforce …
+ AoE Torment + Immobilize + Bleeds + Chilled on DS

Conditions aren’t just bleeds , to be honest i find bleeds to be my least priority as i prefer landing weakness blind torment and chill on them first

Not even discussing the addition of Dhumfire or Terror on top of all these

Sustainment over fast application anyday for me … though i do understand your arguement

fashion.6712:

The only auto condition on Necro is scepter and in the time you built up a decent stack, the ranger maxed them long ago.

Why are you so focused on auto-fire spam as being the only factor? it seems like you’re ignoring 95% of the class and complaining that auto-mode isn’t as brain-dead as it is on rangers.

also, if you really do want to just compare their auto-fire bleed stacks: the ranger ones don’t last as long nor do they cause as much damage. you’re essentially saying that your 10 pennies are better than his 3 nickels

Honestly, the proof is in what high-level teams run. When a high level team is setting up their team, and they want someone to deal massive condition DPS, they always go for Necromancers, unless there is specifically something about the current meta that makes Necromancers unviable. The Necro would still vastly out-damage someone else, but sometimes (an engi for example) can sustain themselves more easily, and that fits the team better. However the engi isn’t picked because it out-condis the necro, but because it out-lives it.

The reality is that it doesn’t matter if a Warrior could burst 10000 bleeds onto a target, if that was all they applied, because a single condi removal would wipe it all. The reason Necros are the king of conditions is because one quick burst rotation will stack you with enough bleeds to put you in deep kitten, while covering them with basically every condition short of confusion. Not only can you do this, but you can do it every 20 seconds or so, and then auto attack with the strongest condition AA chain in the game that will apply 3 conditions easily.

You might find Necros boring, but we are undisputed best condition class overall.

fashion.6712:

My first statement was “unfun”. As in boring to use compared to other classes’ weapon sets. There isnt much happening that i connect with a necromancer in my mind. Staff Mesmer is fun. Staff Ele is fun. Necro isnt. Thats just me. Spear underwater is so much more pure evil carnage.

As a Warrior, my weapons were my damage and my utilities were my utilities. As a Necro, I honestly treat my weapons more like extra utilities than damaging weapons, but that’s probably because I run a Powermancer build.

Actually, I’m going to run through the list:

Dagger #1: For LF generation, and does supplementary damage that isn’t bad (low precision means it also isn’t particularly good). I only ever expect 1 full round before something else needs to happen.

Dagger #2: I can see its usefulness, but I never find myself wanting to do other things, so I forget about it. I’d use it more for the healing than the damage, though the damage is not bad.

Dagger #3: With condi food in WvW, 5.25 second immobilize. Just… sublime. Perfectly set up from a Spectral Grasp, then they’re in range to feel some pretty outrageous burst.

Focus #4: The vulnerability is good, and combined with Dagger #3 when you’re right next to them, it’s easily 3-4k damage in a split second with a crit or two. Super short cooldown too with Spiteful Talismans.

Focus #5: Boon removal + Chill. If it didn’t do damage, I wouldn’t care, but it still does pretty good damage against 3 boons. The cast time is long, which can be a bear, but people often dodge it too soon and get hit after their dodge ends. This happens with Dagger #3 as well, hilariously.

Staff #1: I’m a power build, so it crits for about 1k. And gives me LF. I like starting fights with this, because why not? The important part is a bit of life force (a load if you fire it into a group of people, 4% per pierced target), then there’s some damage to boot.

Staff #2: Great for putting chasers in combat who are behind you, and giving yourself ab it of regen. Also good for detecting stealth locations. The bleeds are whatever for me at the moment.

Staff #3: Long-range AoE chill + poison + weakness field. I’ll take it.

Staff #4: Drops all my conditions. Perfect.

Staff #5: AoE fear to create a bit of room if I need it. Also perfect. Doesn’t matter to me that it does no damage.

I see a bunch of very useful utility on my weapons. I see toys. I love having toys, which is why I think I fell into Necromancer so nicely after I gave it a bit more time. I have all the toys in the world, then Life Blast hits like an absolute train.

I suppose I simply can’t empathize with the sentiment, because I love my weapons. It sounds like you just don’t like playing Necro, fashion, which is fine. But remember that some of us do. I love that my weapons provide more utility than straight-up damage, but if you’re a condimancer, then the damage that is provided is pretty hilarious too. I played condis for a while (WvW, mind you, which is a very important distinction), and the number of times I almost did a spit-take all over my TV because of the condi hate output was substantial.

I don’t really know what kind of synergy between weapons you want. Maybe some examples of the other classes that you’re thinking of that Necro is missing would be nice. I feel like most of them are going to be “Stun/Immobilize → Some High Damage Ability” though, and considering Death Shroud is a weapon itself, Necros have that too with certain combos.

Also, Necro Spear #5 underwater is my least favorite ability. It pulls me to the target, then I’m basically stunned for some odd seconds (I think just 1, maybe 1.5) rolling in the water while the enemy isn’t. Sure, it places 5 bleeds, but what gives. It just sets me up to be spiked. I’m either not in the know about some timing thing that gets you out of it, I’m doing something wrong, or it’s just a really terrible skill. I’m not sure how it’s pure evil carnage.

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, Necro Spear #5 underwater is my least favorite ability. .

Still better than Gathering Plague =)

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, Necro Spear #5 underwater is my least favorite ability. .

Still better than Gathering Plague =)

Spear 5 is so strange…. it is like stunning yourself to get pulled to your target…. spear 4 is just better in everyway. No self stun and it is AOE and it pulls the targert TO YOU.

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, Necro Spear #5 underwater is my least favorite ability. .

Still better than Gathering Plague =)

Ahahahahaha, I’d forgotten. The other day I read that off to my girlfriend while we were underwater and buckled over in laughter. The Tooltip might as well say “DO NOT USE IF: You do not carry Plague Signet”.

EDIT – I’m sorry, I had missed some nuance to Underwater DS. Apparently Life Blast transfers 1 condition per attack from you to the target. It also fires like a chain gun, so I guess Gathering Plague isn’t THAT bad.

Still a little insane though. And I still hate Spear #5.

Cogbyrn.7283:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, Necro Spear #5 underwater is my least favorite ability. .

Still better than Gathering Plague =)

Ahahahahaha, I’d forgotten. The other day I read that off to my girlfriend while we were underwater and buckled over in laughter. The Tooltip might as well say “DO NOT USE IF: You do not carry Plague Signet”.

EDIT – I’m sorry, I had missed some nuance to Underwater DS. Apparently Life Blast transfers 1 condition per attack from you to the target. It also fires like a chain gun, so I guess Gathering Plague isn’t THAT bad.

Still a little insane though. And I still hate Spear #5.

The cast time on gathering plague is hilariously long for an underwater skill. I would argue that and trident 5 are the longest casting underwater skills for anyone

Rennoko.5731:

Cogbyrn.7283:

GrandmaFunk.3052:

Cogbyrn.7283:

Also, Necro Spear #5 underwater is my least favorite ability. .

Still better than Gathering Plague =)

Ahahahahaha, I’d forgotten. The other day I read that off to my girlfriend while we were underwater and buckled over in laughter. The Tooltip might as well say “DO NOT USE IF: You do not carry Plague Signet”.

EDIT – I’m sorry, I had missed some nuance to Underwater DS. Apparently Life Blast transfers 1 condition per attack from you to the target. It also fires like a chain gun, so I guess Gathering Plague isn’t THAT bad.

Still a little insane though. And I still hate Spear #5.

The cast time on gathering plague is hilariously long for an underwater skill. I would argue that and trident 5 are the longest casting underwater skills for anyone

It takes a lot of time to reel in them condis. At the very least, it doesn’t put you right next to an enemy and stun you for their pleasure.

That said, Trident 5 is the highest power coefficient out of any necro skill (3* power), which also get boosted by the vulnerability it stacks. It hits stupidly kitten a power build.

I find Necro weapons much more fun than Ranger’s weapons.
And I disagre about the Axe. It’s amazing, only thing lacking a bit is auto attack which should be 900 range als and have some cleave/increased damage. As it stands out now, #1 is just a debuff tool for your further attacks and #2. And Unholy Feast… AoE considerable damage, AoE cripple, AoE boon removal and gives retaliation… What more?