Not impressed with Scourge

Not impressed with Scourge

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Posted by: Stormsong.1758

Stormsong.1758

Pretexting this with : I play solo a lot more than group

I had a lot of fun playing power, then later, support necro.
Reaper changed things up a bit and eventually was my main.
I really wanted to like the Scourge, but I’m having a hard time with it, here’s why:

  • Barrier skills are weak compared to shroud. As stated in other posts, the barrier points decay so fast that they are only marginally better than a single Aegis boon.
  • Shades don’t move. Meaning I have to keep my fights less mobile. I see these skills as mostly worthless in WvW since I have to F1 -> Target -> Shade Skill -> wait …
    Not a big PvPer anymore, but I imagine once I pop a shade, people are going to just move out of it’s range… it’s really really short range…
  • Utility skills give me some new options, but most of them aren’t going to stay on my bar anyway.
  • Torch gives me 2 new skills… not sure what I was expecting… just, maybe a little more.
  • Elite skill is essentially Plaguelands 2, except weaker and shorter… no idea why I would ever choose this over Plaguelands.

Really feel let down by this and don’t have any desire to play this at all.

Can anybody help here? I still really want to give this a chance, but I just don’t see how the dots connect…

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Posted by: Kam.4092

Kam.4092

I love it so far for PvE. It has a 20 cap for AoE when everyone else has a 5 cap on AoE. In the kittenty PvP area I was keeping 4-5k Burns, 6-8k Bleeds, and 3-5k Torments. I expected Torment to be better, but meh.

I know in the raid training area Scourge will pull around 30k probably. I’m really interested into what our opener will be.

In PvP I understand people’s complaints. I just PvE mainly though, so yeah.

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Posted by: Lahmia.2193

Lahmia.2193

In WvW you will be taking Sand Savant, which counts as 3 shades and has a 10s ammo cooldown.

Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death.

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Posted by: Zoltreez.6435

Zoltreez.6435

Okay so here is my Opinion after playing scourge…
yes mine… im the guy crying about necros all day here lol…
so….

im freaking suprised not as bad as i tought so…
Dmg is there easy to use kitten nice in team battles… a must have in wvw zerg fights…
self sustain is somewhat there too…

now the prob…
the same as all necro builds…

burst classes will instantly blow you up because again we have no answer againts incoming burst… especialy that we lost shroud also…

barrier decay needs to be slowed down.. ALLOT or even fully removed we allready have a cap on the shield so why not keep it ? instead of decaying….

Cant do anything againts kiters shades and all of their existing abilities is bassicaly useless againts high mobile targets that stays way from you and them…..

so TLDR
kitten awesome for group fights
useless trash Alone without help in PvP againts majority of burst builds
so it has exactly the same weakness as ALL other encro builds sadly…

-Stellaris
-Total War: Warhammer
-Guild Wars 2

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Posted by: Stormsong.1758

Stormsong.1758

My Reaper didn’t have those issues, well, before the last patch.
When zerker thieves spiked me I could pop shroud, Skill 3, 2, back out of shroud and follow up for the kill.
Actually killed a thief like that in WvW before he knew what hit him.
Sadly it’s not as efficient anymore and, of course, not very mobile.
I was actually looking forward to Scourge because I was hoping that the nerfing my Reaper got was in preparation for the new classes…
Don’t see that as the case.
Scourge seems to be an even less mobile PvE class that only exists to fill a theme.
Reaper has better power and/or condition damage… why would I want to play anything else?

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Posted by: Ok I Did It.2854

Ok I Did It.2854

I personally found my old Reaper build more sustainable and more damage than the new Elite spec, granted Anet has time to work with it until launch, but if todays play about was my deciding factor for the expansion id avoid it,

Again the necro is so bad at movement speed, we need a trait that gives us a speed boost, I feel I have to always take a utility SotL just to have a chance of keeping up with anyone else, and that instantly puts me on the back foot.

My normal build can handle some damage in WvW but the Scourge got ran over like it wasn’t even there, as it stands it honeslty looks like necro will be left behind after the expansion, it really seems like a class that anet just do not want to buff at all or give us a place in the game,

Hopefully Anet will take our feedback on board and put us into a better place, as I don’t want to have to roll a class I don’t like just to get into parts of the game, but sadly I feel that they will look at the few posts that say I love this elite and then move on.

So yea as it stands, I have no desire to change from Reaper to Scourge, which is a real shame.

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Posted by: MachineManXX.9746

MachineManXX.9746

I dunno. There seems to be some pretty viable boon corrupt play in PvP. Feed from Corruption trait grants you any boon that you corrupt or remove from an enemy. And there are ALOT of ways with scourge to remove and corrupt boons. Aegis, Stability, Protection … I think it will be interesting.

I do agree that barriers decay WAY too fast, regardless what mode you are playing in. Need some dev. love there.

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Posted by: SPESHAL.9106

SPESHAL.9106

I dunno. There seems to be some pretty viable boon corrupt play in PvP. Feed from Corruption trait grants you any boon that you corrupt or remove from an enemy. And there are ALOT of ways with scourge to remove and corrupt boons. Aegis, Stability, Protection … I think it will be interesting.

I do agree that barriers decay WAY too fast, regardless what mode you are playing in. Need some dev. love there.

You must not play much. You realize that the range on all those Scourge “corrupts” is very small and none are unblockable except one. How are you going to corrupt a mesmer or thief’s boons when they are never in range long enough or constantly evading/blocking/etc? How are you going to corrupt constant blocking professions like guardians, revs and engies?

Again, even when you gain a boon, you can’t dictate what type it is…plus… you have to put yourself in harms way just to attempt a corrupt with short ranges. You’re FAR better off just running Corrupt Boons which is on a short cooldown, greater range, and UNBLOCKABLE, so you can actually RELY on it.

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Posted by: Makai.3429

Makai.3429

I know, right? We gave up Vital Persistence for this?

Proud disabled gamer. Not everyone has the capacity to git gud.

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Posted by: Axl.8924

Axl.8924

I’m extremely disappointed.I was hoping for something else for my new build.I’m finding it both extremely inefficient in pve and its going to be extremely inefficient in pvp.

I thought maybe i could create a tanky offensive buffer build, but even with healing and condi my shield is absolute trash.I am simply better off as a reaper.

1:The decay is way too fast.
2:The barrier of 10k seems like it could be increased slightly
3:Need better ways of escaping for spvp.

overall not happy so far.

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Posted by: Kumouta.4985

Kumouta.4985

i tried using a fear based build and it’s amazing really. The instant burns from pressing F1 F4 F5 in one instant and the terror + terrifying descent adds up to a mesmer tier burst usually. F3 and a stunbreak saves you from burst, F2 means you dont need a condi clear. It’s great fun, but def not as supporty as i expected. But i am in the ffa arena so dobt take my word on that.
Now watch anet nerf us back to HoT.

I can apply over 3 stacks of bleeding.

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Posted by: Zoltreez.6435

Zoltreez.6435

i tried using a fear based build and it’s amazing really. The instant burns from pressing F1 F4 F5 in one instant and the terror + terrifying descent adds up to a mesmer tier burst usually. F3 and a stunbreak saves you from burst, F2 means you dont need a condi clear. It’s great fun, but def not as supporty as i expected. But i am in the ffa arena so dobt take my word on that.
Now watch anet nerf us back to HoT.

One does not simply Nerf necros even more……

i swear to the forum gods… if they dare nerf the New necro elite spec… i freaken gonna start a Riot on the forums…..

im getting tired of my favorite class being a big pile of useless crap in PvP….

-Stellaris
-Total War: Warhammer
-Guild Wars 2

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Posted by: Sublimatio.6981

Sublimatio.6981

I know in the raid training area Scourge will pull around 30k probably. I’m really interested into what our opener will be.

a) you dont know
b) it starts with spamming F1 because shades grant expertise

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Posted by: Stormsong.1758

Stormsong.1758

I’d like to update my original post a little…
After playing a little more, in earnest effort to understand this spec, I have a little more insight.

  • [Barrier] decay is still too fast or not enough points.
  • PvE (i.e. vs. stupid AI) seems a lot more powerful than I initially thought. Everything except the barrier (survivability) feels just about right (for normal PvE/Story).
  • [Sand Savant] feels like a must : I think a good option would be to remove the cooldown on [Manifest Sand Shade] when [Sand Savant] is not slotted

Other than that, my problem may just be a learning curve too steep for someone like me.
Looking forward to the full release, hoping for the best.

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

For PvE, the scourge will be as fine as anything else for open world or story. However for anything else the scourge is still in favor of condition damage and still lacking a meanigfull mean of support.

b) it starts with spamming F1 because shades grant expertise

I’m affraid not. Spamming them would probably prove to be more detrimental than anything else You’ll need to carefully wait a few second between each shade summon to maintain them or at least keep 2 of them with you for the whole fight duration.

For PvP, this is another really agressive traitline, the knockdown on torch feel absolutely monstrous.

As for WvW, it look like keeping up one shade is more than enough to do the job and that doesn’t mean that sand savant is necessary. Being a bit more strategical and not counting on the full passive boost is probably the safest and most practical choice in wvw.

And… Barrier… what a joke!

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

For PvE, the scourge will be as fine as anything else for open world or story. However for anything else the scourge is still in favor of condition damage and still lacking a meanigfull mean of support.

Might stacking is definitely a meaningfull mean of support alongside barrier, epidemic, and dps.

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Posted by: Sublimatio.6981

Sublimatio.6981

b) it starts with spamming F1 because shades grant expertise

I’m affraid not. Spamming them would probably prove to be more detrimental than anything else You’ll need to carefully wait a few second between each shade summon to maintain them or at least keep 2 of them with you for the whole fight duration.

i meant spamming twice. you need to spawn two and keep two spawned for stable 10% condi duration

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

For PvE, the scourge will be as fine as anything else for open world or story. However for anything else the scourge is still in favor of condition damage and still lacking a meanigfull mean of support.

Might stacking is definitely a meaningfull mean of support alongside barrier, epidemic, and dps.

Just one problem: Scourge mightstacking sucks. Torch 5 doesn’t count the conditions on your target when calculating how much Might to grant. It counts how many conditions are on your allies. If one ally has three conditions, they get 6 Might. If another ally on the same cast has no conditions, they get no Might.

Dessicate only gives 5 Might period. Never any more (though also never less.)

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

(edited by Drarnor Kunoram.5180)

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Just one problem: Scourge mightstacking sucks. Torch 5 doesn’t count the conditions on your target when calculating how much Might to grant. It counts how many conditions are on your allies. If one ally has three conditions, they get 6 Might. If another ally on the same cast has no conditions, they get no Might.

Dessicate only gives 5 Might period. Never any more (though also never less.)

I tested it on golems earlier, and consistently gave my allies 16 might, when 8 conditions are on the golem, and said ally had 0 conditions.

Are you sure it works the way you think it does? Did you test it, or are you basing this from how you read the skill?

Testing on golems is trouble – no instance, so it is certainly POSSIBLE that the might came from others – so I cannot be 100% conclusive, but it sure looked that way.

Dessicate is 5, BiP is 10, both of which would be great parts to keep up 25 when you lack alacrity.

Okay, did it again. Brought out my bone minions, attacked a golem, got some condis on it, and then used torch 5. The bone minions got 14+ stacks of might.

These CANNOT have come from conditions on the minions. The real issue is that I don’t get the might XP

(edited by Zefiris.8297)

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Posted by: Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Drarnor Kunoram.5180

Maybe it’s just buggy as all get out. I have yet to give anyone Might with that skill except when they had condis on them. Now, I didn’t check to see if Might stacks lined up with the target or my allies…

Dragonbrand |Drarnor Kunoram: Charr Necro
http://www.twitch.tv/reverse830
I’m a Geeleiver

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Posted by: Eodwen.2613

Eodwen.2613

Also so many traits don’t do anything with scourge. Theres are like so little choices to go with since all the enter shroud traits dont do anything with scourge as far as I tested.

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Posted by: Zefiris.8297

Zefiris.8297

Annoying. It’d all be more conclusive with instanced golems

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Posted by: Dadnir.5038

Dadnir.5038

For PvE, the scourge will be as fine as anything else for open world or story. However for anything else the scourge is still in favor of condition damage and still lacking a meanigfull mean of support.

Might stacking is definitely a meaningfull mean of support alongside barrier, epidemic, and dps.

Everybody and it grandma can might stack except the necromancer so it’s a relief to have some improvement in this area but you definitely won’t use a scourge to replace a PS warrior.

Barrier have an horrible design for PvE, and especially for raids. It might have some use if you could maintain them but whatever you do with the barrier that the scourge have you will still need a druid backup with it’s godsend grace of the land.

Epidemic is not a support skill per se. Epidemic is a pure dps skill that need your allies to support you so that you can land optimal damage. It’s the same as a meteor shower for elementalist.

As for dps, first it is not a mean of support and second it will be balanced around the standard of the necromancer nothing more nothing less. In the end, it might become more userfriendly to do damage with scourge in raid but that’s all. You can expect an optimal condi build at 30-32k which is average and a power build at 26-27 k which is below average.

It’s almost useless in PvE but the most valuable support that the scourge provide is it’s condition management. Corruptions and condition cleanses is where the scourge shine, barrier is a mere toy that don’t really have a place in raid or PvE as a whole.

You want to give a place to the necromancer in raid? It’s easy, there is absolutely no need for an elite spec for that. You just need a single change to rending shroud and make it reduce toughness from your foes by 180 making it drop a league in defense. Just that would be enough to grant necromancers a place in raid.

You want to fix necromancer’s low power damage? A first step would be to apply the increased damage to foes affected by vulnerability from unholy fervor to all skill while the trait is equiped instead of just axe skills. Put the axe cool down duration on spitefull spirit and change unholy fervor to do that and it would already help a lot.

Want to give some sustain to other as a necromancer? Change parasitic contagion so that it heal you and up to 5 allies around you each time you inflict on yourself a condition by using a corruption or by drawing it from neaby allies. A useful trait that have synergy with the mechanism of the necromancer and the other traits of the line while sneakily giving support to your allies. Is this asking for to much?

Three changes that absolutely do not affect the balance of the game, do not add any power creep through elite spec but yet give the necromancer the tools to find a place in PvE raids. Is this really so difficult to understand? I’m just focusing on what’s needed not what’s unneeded and that we already swim into to the point of drowning like corrupting boons.

The lingering issue of the core necromancer is what’s toxic to the necromancer, it feel like anet only know how to add more and more of the things that the necromancer don’t need in high quantity. If you look at the last 3 patch note and dagger, you see :
- 1st patch note : Dagger 2 heal for 100% more while bleeding
- 2nd patch note : Dagger 2 heal for 100% more (PvP only)
- 3rd patch note : Dagger 2 heal for the same amount as in PvP.
More heal! more heal! more heal! does it resolve the lingering issue of this skill? Nope. The necromancer don’t need “more”, the necromancer need well though balance changes. Dagger 2 needed either a slow effect on hit or a longer range or the 2 but not more heal.

I see the thing going in the wrong direction each time. The scourge go in the wrong direction when it come to support for PvE. It’s just obvious. However, I agree that giving it proper support would be a power creep, that’s why I believe that the work need to be done to the core necromancer.

No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.