(edited by sonja.4810)
Now I understand Chill of Darkness
+1 for the poetry of the last paragraph.
Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Did it need a nerf? It was only used at all if you had one of two specific skills equipped, both of which have massive cooldowns. It was hardly a game-changer, and most of the time wasn’t picked because it was too situational. Now it’s never picked because it just sucks.
Chilling Darkness nerf was stupid. Not because it wasn’t needed (IMO it wasn’t, but w/e), but for the reason Ragion stated. The fact that the ICD of it is 5 seconds, which means you can only get a single tick out of the well.
At least when you nerf it have the decency to give it 2-3 sec ICD so we can proc it twice from a well that has 50 ffing seconds cooldown and is already borderline useless.
That said. I think comparing WoD and Sandstorm is a bit silly.
The warhorn is a weapon skill and with the attunement swapping it’s not quite fair to compare. But basically sandstorm is more easily accessible and it can be a lot worse, because that same slot has 3 other functions on it.
I think sandstorm wins, because its more available on demand without sacrificing a utility slot.
WoD has some benefits to it (longer range / bigger radius / faster pulsing / unblockable), but it’s generally not worth the utility slot; whereas the warhorn 5 slot also comes with offensive abilities and team support. So you can use sandstorm if you need it, without losing out if you don’t use it on cooldown.
As for wildfire. That kitten is just rediculous.
Fire field that does solid damage, applies burning, strips boons and is extremely accessible. Might as well give the elementalist some boon corruption, seeing as they still lack some of that. And maybe double their HP since we have Death Shroud, so that’s not fair either.
(edited by Nyth.3492)
Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Did it need a nerf? It was only used at all if you had one of two specific skills equipped, both of which have massive cooldowns. It was hardly a game-changer, and most of the time wasn’t picked because it was too situational. Now it’s never picked because it just sucks.
Chilling Drkness needed a nerf because we got a lot more chill sources, chill on GS auto, chilling nova on trait which is 9 seconds of chill with a 10 second icd and this is without chill duration, also chill on executioners scyth that combos with Death spiral for aoe chills that also combos with Death’s Charge and Putrid explosion for frost armour that chills when hit, chill from spectral grasp chill from two spinal shivers and chill on staff. Boon conversions is also another thing to think about, fury that everyone has turns into blindness. They also added a second AoE blind skill, at this point it is a no brainer to dampen chilling darkness.
No single trait or skill is a game changer because everything can be countered unless permanently stacked or timed, and with chilling darkness as a trait we get not just permanent chill which can be done regardless of the nerf but easy perma chill, chill without giving up a weapon slot or utility slot you would rather use for something else.It is obvious that nerf is because of reaper so nerfing it now was really pointless.
Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Did it need a nerf? It was only used at all if you had one of two specific skills equipped, both of which have massive cooldowns. It was hardly a game-changer, and most of the time wasn’t picked because it was too situational. Now it’s never picked because it just sucks.
Chilling Drkness needed a nerf because we got a lot more chill sources, chill on GS auto, chilling nova on trait which is 9 seconds of chill with a 10 second icd and this is without chill duration, also chill on executioners scyth that combos with Death spiral for aoe chills that also combos with Death’s Charge and Putrid explosion for frost armour that chills when hit, chill from spectral grasp chill from two spinal shivers and chill on staff. Boon conversions is also another thing to think about, fury that everyone has turns into blindness. They also added a second AoE blind skill, at this point it is a no brainer to dampen chilling darkness.
No we didn’t. None of the sources of chill you speak of currently exist in game. They can’t nerf us to balance what doesn’t exist.
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Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Did it need a nerf? It was only used at all if you had one of two specific skills equipped, both of which have massive cooldowns. It was hardly a game-changer, and most of the time wasn’t picked because it was too situational. Now it’s never picked because it just sucks.
Chilling Drkness needed a nerf because we got a lot more chill sources, chill on GS auto, chilling nova on trait which is 9 seconds of chill with a 10 second icd and this is without chill duration, also chill on executioners scyth that combos with Death spiral for aoe chills that also combos with Death’s Charge and Putrid explosion for frost armour that chills when hit, chill from spectral grasp chill from two spinal shivers and chill on staff. Boon conversions is also another thing to think about, fury that everyone has turns into blindness. They also added a second AoE blind skill, at this point it is a no brainer to dampen chilling darkness.
No we didn’t. None of the sources of chill you speak of currently exist in game. They can’t nerf us to balance what doesn’t exist.
Lol please read the entire thing.
Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Did it need a nerf? It was only used at all if you had one of two specific skills equipped, both of which have massive cooldowns. It was hardly a game-changer, and most of the time wasn’t picked because it was too situational. Now it’s never picked because it just sucks.
Chilling Drkness needed a nerf because we got a lot more chill sources, chill on GS auto, chilling nova on trait which is 9 seconds of chill with a 10 second icd and this is without chill duration, also chill on executioners scyth that combos with Death spiral for aoe chills that also combos with Death’s Charge and Putrid explosion for frost armour that chills when hit, chill from spectral grasp chill from two spinal shivers and chill on staff. Boon conversions is also another thing to think about, fury that everyone has turns into blindness. They also added a second AoE blind skill, at this point it is a no brainer to dampen chilling darkness.
No we didn’t. None of the sources of chill you speak of currently exist in game. They can’t nerf us to balance what doesn’t exist.
lol try more because you know the nerf was dumb with the chill nerf was more than enough now the nerf on the trait was dumb
Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Did it need a nerf? It was only used at all if you had one of two specific skills equipped, both of which have massive cooldowns. It was hardly a game-changer, and most of the time wasn’t picked because it was too situational. Now it’s never picked because it just sucks.
Chilling Drkness needed a nerf because we got a lot more chill sources, chill on GS auto, chilling nova on trait which is 9 seconds of chill with a 10 second icd and this is without chill duration, also chill on executioners scyth that combos with Death spiral for aoe chills that also combos with Death’s Charge and Putrid explosion for frost armour that chills when hit, chill from spectral grasp chill from two spinal shivers and chill on staff. Boon conversions is also another thing to think about, fury that everyone has turns into blindness. They also added a second AoE blind skill, at this point it is a no brainer to dampen chilling darkness.
No we didn’t. None of the sources of chill you speak of currently exist in game. They can’t nerf us to balance what doesn’t exist.
Lol please read the entire thing.
I did. Still doesn’t justify the first half of what you said. :p
Necromancer Rights Advocate
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Chilling darkness did need a nerf but what they did is…wow, so much facepalm. limit chill to 5 stacks then give the trait 5sec icd with a 2 sec duration when all our aoe blinds last 5 or 6 seconds? The logic really hurts my soul.
Would have been better to remove the trait entirely if that was the best way to balance they could come up with and put in something else that actually competes with plague sending, like maybe a good source of confusion or torment?
Did it need a nerf? It was only used at all if you had one of two specific skills equipped, both of which have massive cooldowns. It was hardly a game-changer, and most of the time wasn’t picked because it was too situational. Now it’s never picked because it just sucks.
Chilling Drkness needed a nerf because we got a lot more chill sources, chill on GS auto, chilling nova on trait which is 9 seconds of chill with a 10 second icd and this is without chill duration, also chill on executioners scyth that combos with Death spiral for aoe chills that also combos with Death’s Charge and Putrid explosion for frost armour that chills when hit, chill from spectral grasp chill from two spinal shivers and chill on staff. Boon conversions is also another thing to think about, fury that everyone has turns into blindness. They also added a second AoE blind skill, at this point it is a no brainer to dampen chilling darkness.
No we didn’t. None of the sources of chill you speak of currently exist in game. They can’t nerf us to balance what doesn’t exist.
Lol please read the entire thing.
I did. Still doesn’t justify the first half of what you said. :p
What the…this is the second paragraph, please read the last line.
No single trait or skill is a game changer because everything can be countered unless permanently stacked or timed, and with chilling darkness as a trait we get not just permanent chill which can be done regardless of the nerf but easy perma chill, chill without giving up a weapon slot or utility slot you would rather use for something else.It is obvious that nerf is because of reaper so nerfing it now was really pointless.
No single trait or skill is a game changer because everything can be countered unless permanently stacked or timed, and with chilling darkness as a trait we get not just permanent chill which can be done regardless of the nerf but easy perma chill, chill without giving up a weapon slot or utility slot you would rather use for something else.It is obvious that nerf is because of reaper so nerfing it now was really pointless.
While I agree with you with the fact that nerfing it now was pointless, I don’t agree with your statement that it would have been overpowered with the reaper and I don’t agree how they nerfed it.
There is plenty of counter against chill being condition cleanse, condition duration reduction or even immunity. With them showing tempest, it was even more outstanding with this new trait : Lucid singularity. (I think a fresh air ele will have a lot of fun with this since there is no ICD + shock aura… Well we can already see something OP)
For Chilling darkness, the point is that it would have stayed fine if the base chill duration wasn’t buffed (yes, 1s was fine for an adept trait) and Bitter chill hadn’t this much vuln. Any ICD on trait make traits pointless in XvX scenario which is one of the area where necro need love. At the moment the necro, and de facto the reaper, are to full of hole to be on par with other profession and everything they do seem to widen this gap.
And, again, no core profession should be balanced around a specific elite specialization. In the end balancing around an elite specialization only break existing stuff that could be usefull and balanced for other elite specializations.
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
ICD basically makes the trait pointless, it was useful with well of darkness when you were mobbed By a lot of enemies in spvp or small group wvw, otherwise it was already pretty much useless, or at least much less useful. Now with ICD it makes very little sense to pick the trait and wells are pretty tricky to use thanks to slowing down targeting.
I really wish they had not done this condition “buff” to mess things up, most of things were working pretty well before.
To me it doesn’t make sense to balance game around world boss battles and dungeon runs I rarely even play, just saying.
Guardian 80 Necromancer 80 Ranger 80 Mesmer 80 Elementalist 80 Warrior 80
anet need to change the cap to 25 just like any other condi…. it not my fault that u didnt bring any condi clears…… or just put a cap on how long u can be chilled like 30sec or 1min… like a said before bring condi clears and use them wisely….
Chilling Darkness has 5 s ICD. Shivers of Dread has no ICD. Hard to understand for me.
Chilling Darkness used to have no icd. They changed it last patch to have a 5 second one with no warning.
They couldn’t have their pet class outshone by a mere Necromancer, of course.
Resident smug Englishman on the NA servers, just because.
The reason why I posed this is yes this is about a utility skill vs a Eles weapon skill.
But, ours has a 50 second CD untraited, theirs is 30 seconds.
They also essentially get another well on warhorn as Wildfire. Which mirrors our Well of Corruption and I’ll admit both share the same 40s cd.
That is 2 utility slots for us which most people use for wells or at least one well, Ele’s get to pick whatever Utilities they want while having around the same functionality and 2 other abilities.
I suppose my problem is this: I’ve sat here and read these forums and wondered why everyone was so salty about necros. I could pull off decent damage, outlive most things, in the few pvp matches I’ve hardly ever lost a fight unless grossly outnumbered or turned into a ping pong ball.
But now that I’ve ranked up a bit in mmr I’m understanding everything better. Our second “healthbar” means nothing when I’ve seen it literally burst through in a matter of seconds with my own HP following. Our Utilities offer no defense like some other classes, I use my utilities for damage because my own weapon skills offer none and most definitely do not offer the burst I need to finish someone. Yes there are ways to do this, but in the scheme of things it doesn’t matter when the only defense I can use is my positioning, dodges, and Death Shroud. Once I get cc’d or knocked down I might as well forfeit the fight.
Eles yes require skill to play, you have to know when to use what to live, but so does Necro and yet Ele it is much more effective. Their damage is carried on their weapons and they are free to choose utilities that help them survive or turn a fight on top of having positioning and dodges. The icing on the cake was the Tempest and my only consolation is the fact that I didn’t decide to main a Guardian or I’d strangle myself with my new bowstring. (but even then guards will still be wanted over a necro)
^ Necro gets AoE blind field on 20 sec cd. Atleast that was the latest iteration of gs4 at the time of the reaper showcase.
So no utilities used to get something that is on a lower recharge than the ele skill.
Weeeoooww
Also, atm it is “in” to cry about necros and everyone and their mother does it. For the most part it just happens to be that the people who complain now and cry the loudest have no kittening clue how some issues of this class get addressed with the upcoming elite specc or why it is that necro sucks/ is lacking.
Chilling Darkness nerf would have been fine if we had a lot of individual sources to blinds. Then it would make sense that it was used as an occasional throw-in to help disable enemies, as such short durations are impossible to deal with realistically. However, we don’t (though we should) have many blinds, we have very few sources of blinds, almost all of which hit multiple enemies and are completely gutted by the addition of an ICD.
Bell, you are missing the point. Dust storm gives blind and vuln on pulse. I’m not upset that they have an aoe blind. I’m upset they decided that the 2 traits which granted that functionality on well were OP and required a very hefty and long ICD and yet gave the same thing to ele’s yet on a smaller scale.
People were rightfully upset when this change happened. As Bawb said most of our blinds come on an AoE basis which makes the trait pointless since the target you probably would want Chilled wouldn’t be Chilled and therefor gain the additional effects your traits grant it.
AoE: 5
Plague, Well of Darkness, Dagger (it bounces), Haunt (Minon), HoT Greatsword
Single Target: 1
Signet of Spite
Unreliable Single Target: 2
Corrupt Boon, Well of Corruption (technically an aoe but the target has to have fury)
Both of these need to flip fury.
(edited by sonja.4810)
Even Haunt is AoE blind.
Ah you are right about haunt I changed my above post, the radius is just rather tiny (120)
If they’re going to put an ICD on it, they should bump the duration up to a four-five second chill to make it a more significant skill-shot.
edit: silly kitten filter!
I’m not really sure about how great the tempest will be. I like the warhorn skills a lot even if things like heat sync clearly rip off signet of inspiration for mesmer. I just don’t like how aura-centric the shouts and traitline are when you’d have to go D/D to make an aura build with tempest.
I’m also concerned about the overloads. They look like good skills but tempests are forced to take and trait cantrips in order to cover those channels, which I beleive is poor synergy.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
All that tempest stuff is desperately short range, which after a long night of WvW is giving me visions of exploding elementalists. All those spinning tops are going to get immobed and bombed into oblivion.
I’m glad my wells are 900 range! However, even if the overcharges don’t get used much, some of those warhorn skills do look pretty tasty. Wildfire strips boons? Did you see the aoe?! Doesn’t that make it Well of Corruption on crack, as a weapon skill? I may have to go back and double-check.
If Anet simply said something along the lines of “we think chilling darkess is too strong in WvW right now” or “chilling darkness is currently too strong with bitter chill” I would be somewhat content (though still unhappy).
The problem is this nerf literally came out of nowhere. It was never a problem before, no one asked for it to be nerfed and no one expected it. It also doesn’t help that there have been no red posts to help justify the change.
I really just want some degree of interaction between the dev’s and the necro community to help understand why they nerf and buff spells on what seems like a whim. TALK TO US
All that tempest stuff is desperately short range, which after a long night of WvW is giving me visions of exploding elementalists. All those spinning tops are going to get immobed and bombed into oblivion.
I’m glad my wells are 900 range! However, even if the overcharges don’t get used much, some of those warhorn skills do look pretty tasty. Wildfire strips boons? Did you see the aoe?! Doesn’t that make it Well of Corruption on crack, as a weapon skill? I may have to go back and double-check.
Well immob won’t be a problem for them with lucid singularity (although no aura heal). Thats probably the one environment where that trait is actually useful for Tempest.
And to top it off guardians can just give them stab whenver they overload.
Necromancer Main
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
Taking a break from GW2 to play various
Nintendo games..
WoD needs a massive cooldown reduction. It is currently the worst skill in the game without a doubt. The only thing I can think of that comes even close to being as bad as WoD is Warrior offhand axe skill #5.
It should have a maximum cooldown of 25seconds, ideally 20seconds, 16 when traited, unless they add additional effects. If it stays the same, an AOE blind with a Dark field, then it needs it’s cooldown reduced. There’s just no reason it should be so long especially now that Chilling Darkness has been nerfed.
Necromancer, Ranger, Warrior, Engineer
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
Champion: Phantom, Hunter, Legionnaire, Genius
WvW rank: Diamond Colonel | Maguuma
I used to use it on a choke point in WvW to chill and blind enemies while in plague (2). Now that they have plague sending though, along with the nerf I cannot ever see myself taking it. They may as well remove it at this point and just give us a new adept.
WoD needs a massive cooldown reduction. It is currently the worst skill in the game without a doubt. The only thing I can think of that comes even close to being as bad as WoD is Warrior offhand axe skill #5.
Warrior Axe 5 is a crazy good adrenaline generator and whirl finisher. Single target damage is low, but it’s very much worth using in 5 target situations.
So no, I wouldn’t compare Well of Darkness to Whirlwind Axe.
This problem happens because Anet doesn’t have the code for AoE proc. So it’s either everything procs or one thing procs at a time. It’s like a major oversight.
It’s a coding limitation (which I think can be fixed if they really try). You would think that they would have learned from Perplex rune. but no….
Easy solution (conceptually) would be to make every trigger that happens at the same time procs the effect all together at that particular point of time before going on ICD. For example, the 5 blinds inflicted by well of darkness should all proc chill because they trigger the effect at the same point in time. Then going on ICD and so on.
But of course it doesn’t matter because power reaper will replace power chill necro anyway (pretty that’s what they think).
This problem happens because Anet doesn’t have the code for AoE proc. So it’s either everything procs or one thing procs at a time. It’s like a major oversight.
It’s a coding limitation (which I think can be fixed if they really try). You would think that they would have learned from Perplex rune. but no….
Easy solution (conceptually) would be to make every trigger that happens at the same time procs the effect all together at that particular point of time before going on ICD. For example, the 5 blinds inflicted by well of darkness should all proc chill because they trigger the effect at the same point in time. Then going on ICD and so on.
But of course it doesn’t matter because power reaper will replace power chill necro anyway (pretty that’s what they think).
You mean like how Blinding Ashes does?
This problem happens because Anet doesn’t have the code for AoE proc. So it’s either everything procs or one thing procs at a time. It’s like a major oversight.
It’s a coding limitation (which I think can be fixed if they really try). You would think that they would have learned from Perplex rune. but no….
Easy solution (conceptually) would be to make every trigger that happens at the same time procs the effect all together at that particular point of time before going on ICD. For example, the 5 blinds inflicted by well of darkness should all proc chill because they trigger the effect at the same point in time. Then going on ICD and so on.
But of course it doesn’t matter because power reaper will replace power chill necro anyway (pretty that’s what they think).
You mean like how Blinding Ashes does?
Now that you brought that up, I wonder why they didn’t make it work like blinding ashes. Maybe the coding has to be skill specific as they don’t have universal tool for the function. but then again, it wouldn’t surprise me if anet forgot that blinding ashes exists.
They can do what you call “aoe proc”. Skills that have a separate ICD per target (like Shocking Aura and FLame Aura) use what you call “aoe proc”. They could have made Chilling Darkness have a separate ICD per target. It still would have been a huge nerf to Well of Darkness and Plague but not as big as the current implementation is. The nerf had no rhyme or reason to it.
A bad necromancer always blames the corpse.
I’m not really sure about how great the tempest will be. I like the warhorn skills a lot even if things like heat sync clearly rip off signet of inspiration for mesmer. I just don’t like how aura-centric the shouts and traitline are when you’d have to go D/D to make an aura build with tempest.
Easy, 10s ICD AoE stun break. Also, tempest can easily not run any of their utilities if they don’t want, or only run the auras when they are going D/D, you aren’t remotely forced to take all of a specialization at once.