Guild Wars 2

Bleed caps…What is the point at whacking at the air when you’re at a DE when the mob already has 25 stacks up? So that I can watch my little 300’s go off from my scepter?

5% condition damage scaling — this has got to be the absolute most depressing thing in the entire game. 6, maybe 7 second bleed, you can stack up to 10 times and it just keeps dropping off. When a necro throws some conditions at you, you should know it. My ele throws up 12 stacks of bleed up easier than my necro every day of the week.

Condition necro’s inability to kill inanimate objects…I’m talking about a Ranger’s root or a Centaur’s supply cart or a door or gate or what have you. My warrior one shots the stuff…and my necro can basically go afk while whacking away at it.

The bugged traits…and traits resetting every single time necros zone into the mists. None of my other professions traits reset upon zoning in.

—

I think we’re being patient. I’ll be honest though, I think a lot of people have either rerolled or simply moved on. I’m becoming more and more likely to do the same.

And we (condition mancers) do NOT want our damage to be balanced around a power build’s death shroud. We hit like a joke with #1 in DS…#2 is useless…#3 is a short duration fear…#4 gives some survivability.

EDIT: also, when you summon a jagged horror (5 pt trait) you are stuck in combat until he’s dead, or sometimes longer, until his corpse stops bleeding, even though he’s been dead for a while. This greatly slows down a necromancer.

It’s time to step up your game anet.

I used to think that the 25 stack limit of bleed made some sense. But after some thought I realized how insanely nonsensical it is. If people fight by using bleeds and their main damage comes from conditions, why the hell would you cap that? There’s no cap for direct damage, so why is there a cap for condition damage? It makes absolutely no sense.

So what if there are 100 stacks of bleed on the target? That means it’s how the people trying to kill it deal damage, why would you block half of the people from dealing any sort of decent damage to these creatures? If there’s 100 players who fight using direct damage, you don’t cap the other 75 of these 100 players from not dealing damage because the first 25 are already dealing damage to it.

Delryn.7235:

I used to think that the 25 stack limit of bleed made some sense. But after some thought I realized how insanely nonsensical it is. If people fight by using bleeds and their main damage comes from conditions, why the hell would you cap that? There’s no cap for direct damage, so why is there a cap for condition damage? It makes absolutely no sense.

So what if there are 100 stacks of bleed on the target? That means it’s how the people trying to kill it deal damage, why would you block half of the people from dealing any sort of decent damage to these creatures? If there’s 100 players who fight using direct damage, you don’t cap the other 75 of these 100 players from not dealing damage because the first 25 are already dealing damage to it.

Yep, that’s exactly how I feel. I could understand if Bleeds rolled or something, but then you’d have a bigger problem with the way most classes can stack 20+ bleeds easily. However, they do not and there is no synergy between each individual bleed. It is insane that this bug/issue has not yet been fixed.

I think they didn’t really plan very well when they gave classes with superior DD also the ability to stack bleeds like crazy as well. Maybe they thought we don’t want to be like other MMOs. Well, the reason other MMOs do that is because it works. I see Gw2 trying to reinvent the wheel in certain areas and they’re mostly failing at it. Far too much AOE and dots from all classes. In beta I noticed this to a be a problem and it’s come true.

Honestly I think the community needs to get pasts its “I’m a necromancer, all I can do is spam conditions” mentality.

Ergo Proxy.6219:

Honestly I think the community needs to get pasts its “I’m a necromancer, all I can do is spam conditions” mentality.

Only if Anet reworks the class. The most viable build is based on conditions. So until Anet changes this, spamming conditions means the necromancer is trying to be the best he/she can be.

Ergo Proxy.6219:

Honestly I think the community needs to get pasts its “I’m a necromancer, all I can do is spam conditions” mentality.

And if we like to run condition builds? Are you saying its ok that they are forcing us to play the game in a way that we don’t want too?

Oh and since you really have no clue what your talking about, this problem effects other Prof not just Necro’s. It effects every Condition spec Prof in the game.

Yeah but the Necro dmg builds are reliant on stupid enemy not moving out of circles.

I have accepted condition to be a secondary stat/source of dmg in this game and as such shelved my necro. I will try him out again later when things are less buggy.

Ergo Proxy.6219:

Honestly I think the community needs to get pasts its “I’m a necromancer, all I can do is spam conditions” mentality.

Considering its our strength, what is the alternative? Minions?? Read up on how substandard they are with too little hps and wonky AI.

After that all we have is a DS build and frankly, most people don’t find it all that much fun and more effective in PvP than PvE. Since everyone plays PvE, probably most, why should we suffer for it?

Don’t make excuses for Anets faults. They’ve screwed up. They know it and all they’ve given us is a “learn to DS” and “we know there are issues”. Yeah, thanks=) I know how to DS fairly well thank you…now fix minion AI and their effectiveness and all our broken traits/skills.

Bleed cap makes sense when Epidemic come in play: if you have good timing you can copy indefinitely the conditions from one foe to another: in PvP stacking bleed focusing a target is easy and if you epidemic an enemy then epidemic again the other one you can transfer a indecent amount of bleed indefinitely. In tournament this would be an incredible exploit.
Instead I would suggest to keep the cap only for sPvP and tPvP.

Since everyone plays PvE, probably most, why should we suffer for it?

Where did u get this one from ? loool

i dont have a 80 necro yet but im working on it as my 3rd 80s char. i like playing a hard class

Arcades Saboth.5139:

Bleed cap makes sense when Epidemic come in play: if you have good timing you can copy indefinitely the conditions from one foe to another: in PvP stacking bleed focusing a target is easy and if you epidemic an enemy then epidemic again the other one you can transfer a indecent amount of bleed indefinitely. In tournament this would be an incredible exploit.
Instead I would suggest to keep the cap only for sPvP and tPvP.

wouldn’t a single condition removal nullify all of that? bleeding is (if I remember correctly) the first condition removed. On top of that I’m not sure why someone would go into PvP without condition removal.

@striker
Exactly, if the person let themselves get 25 stacks of bleeding without removing it one way or another then it’s their own fault. Why should condition focused classes have such a huge limitation when they’re already so limited?

Punny.9210:

Since everyone plays PvE, probably most, why should we suffer for it?

Where did u get this one from ? loool

i dont have a 80 necro yet but im working on it as my 3rd 80s char. i like playing a hard class

We wouldn’t be all that hard to play if our abilities were balanced, minions had proper AI and our trait lines made sense and of course worked as intended…sort of like most other classes=) I’d be laughing too.

Not everyone can remove conditions or remove them continuously. But I was just trying to figure why they choose to cap the bleed (and any other conditions). I agree with you that the cap should be removed, if Arena Net designers think it’s important or exploitable then let’s remove it only in PvE but keep it in PvP.

I think one compromise would be making it stack duration after 25 stacks. The math might be a little complicated though.

edit: Another option would be making each stack after 25 increase the damage of the first 25 stacks by 2% instead of adding a stack.

Delryn.7235:

I used to think that the 25 stack limit of bleed made some sense. But after some thought I realized how insanely nonsensical it is. If people fight by using bleeds and their main damage comes from conditions, why the hell would you cap that? There’s no cap for direct damage, so why is there a cap for condition damage? It makes absolutely no sense.

So what if there are 100 stacks of bleed on the target? That means it’s how the people trying to kill it deal damage, why would you block half of the people from dealing any sort of decent damage to these creatures? If there’s 100 players who fight using direct damage, you don’t cap the other 75 of these 100 players from not dealing damage because the first 25 are already dealing damage to it.

Because epidemic…

You could also just remove the cap and make epidemic and other condition transfers transfer a maximum of 25 stacks. That would be easy enough to change.

deapee.7516:

Condition necro’s inability to kill inanimate objects…I’m talking about a Ranger’s root or a Centaur’s supply cart or a door or gate or what have you. My warrior one shots the stuff…and my necro can basically go afk while whacking away at it.

Also, THIS. For the love of god. This is one of those things that “makes sense” but is just not worth it from a QOL perspective. I don’t care if its weird that the weapon rack is bleeding (burning not so much). Just make it take bleed damage. Call it “structural damage” instead if you must. It really doesn’t matter. It is just not acceptable to have to wail on inanimate objects for 10x as long as a power class.

Arcades Saboth.5139:

Bleed cap makes sense when Epidemic come in play: if you have good timing you can copy indefinitely the conditions from one foe to another: in PvP stacking bleed focusing a target is easy and if you epidemic an enemy then epidemic again the other one you can transfer a indecent amount of bleed indefinitely. In tournament this would be an incredible exploit.
Instead I would suggest to keep the cap only for sPvP and tPvP.

So the kitten what? Cap the number of stacks that Epidemic can transfer if it’s a special case. Don’t kitten with people’s damage.

Also, you’re an idiot. Epidemic doesn’t reset the timer on conditions it transfers.

Forgive my lack of knowledge of English language and specially slangs: I don’t understand the use of the verb “kitten”. What it’s used for?

Ahmon.1730:

So the kitten what? Cap the number of stacks that Epidemic can transfer if it’s a special case. Don’t kitten with people’s damage.

Also, you’re an idiot. Epidemic doesn’t reset the timer on conditions it transfers.

Thank you for your constructive comment but please let me point the fact I was talking about possible exploit: think about two necromancers with epidemic, or two rangers with a lot of bleed, whatever you like. Even if Epidemic doesn’t not reset conditions cooldown you could still apply an enormous quantity of bleed without cap.
I was stating it’s exploitable and thus they put a cap.

Arcades Saboth.5139:

Forgive my lack of knowledge of English language and specially slangs: I don’t understand the use of the verb “kitten”. What it’s used for?

Ahmon.1730:

So the kitten what? Cap the number of stacks that Epidemic can transfer if it’s a special case. Don’t kitten with people’s damage.

Also, you’re an idiot. Epidemic doesn’t reset the timer on conditions it transfers.

Thank you for your constructive comment but please let me point the fact I was talking about possible exploit: think about two necromancers with epidemic, or two rangers with a lot of bleed, whatever you like. Even if Epidemic doesn’t not reset conditions cooldown you could still apply an enormous quantity of bleed without cap.
I was stating it’s exploitable and thus they put a cap.

Exploitable how? You can’t extend the duration of bleeds/conditions with Epidemic. If you mean exploitable in the sense that it makes Epidemic even more useful, then yeah, that’s true.

If Epidemic is the reason conditions are capped at 25 stacks, why not just fix epidemic and uncap condition stacks?

If bleed becomes too powerful, why not decrease bleed damage or make the ticks slower? There is absolutely no reason to cap condition stacks.

Again: I agree with you. I don’t like the cap. I was just trying to figure out why they put a cap.

I feel the real problem is this min/max attitude. Maybe it wasn’t ANets intention that players choose between either 100% condition and 0% power or vice versa.

The community, however, is 100% sure that power sucks hard for necromancers and therefore maximizing condition damage at the cost of power is a must. What you end up with, though, is lots of kittened abilities.

Personally I wish there was a game where a hybrid approach would work. But I guess this will never happen. Min/max is the biggest enemy of variation

I saw a dev response a few days ago that said they were aware of the “inanimate object” problem, and have some ideas in mind. Also that the bleed stack was worth investigating.

Link to the thread:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/suggestions/No-love-for-condition-builds/first

I’m a little disappointed that there was nothing about this in the last update, but it does take more than a week for these fixes to appear.

If somebody in the know sees this thread, could you let us know if this is still being investigated? If the bleed cap is here to stay then I’m rolling a new character, as the dynamic events at level 80 have no space for me.

I’m really disappointed that it takes ANet so long to provide fixes for the game breaking stuff and provide the Necro with some love (e.g. LF gain, combos etc).
The patches of the past few weeks didn’t really have an impact. I’m also surprised that the developers didn’t care to give some feedback on the Necro Bug thread.

“Conditions is the best build and it doesn’t work well fix it, rework my necro bla bla bla”
>>MM build
>>Wells build
>>Power build
>>Tanky build
>>Support build
>>MM/Cond build
>>Vulnerability stacking build
…
I see now what they had told me:
-All the QQ is comming to GW2, ANet must get ready for it.

Onedoesnotsimply.5740:

and I don’t see any patch notes this week. Just maintenancing the gem store (shoulda figured that)

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/info/news/Update-Notes-October-1st-2012/first#post320824 (Though I am more inclined to call them October 2nd patch notes.)

Also, add to this condition dmge on structure/object etc which affects other condition specs.
Also (why not) our condition dmge weapons hit a lot less hard than warrior rifle or ranger SB, or warrior sword, why is this the case?