Did you make sure Fear was the first and only (ticking) condition you applied? To make sure you should use a fresh golem every time. And if he counted the initial damage he would never have seen just one tick, because terror ticks at least once.
Yes (had vuln on for 3 times to check if full terror proc maybe acts differently – you know the 50% damage boost). With no condi duration and only the sigil the second terror tick never happened, unlike with 2 lyssa runes (i am kinda bad at the terror timing, but if i get it 3 out of 9 times with 10% condi duration, but it never happens with the sigil it means it doesnt increase the fear duration.
That was the whole point of the test. Get enough so you can see if the 15% from the sigil would tip the scale.
I had Master of Terror, 20 Spite, Runes of the Necromancer.
I tested on a training golem, no extra conditions, just the DS fear.
Btw I made a second discovery:
2 Sigils of Paralyzation don’t stack their duration.
With Master of Terror (50%), Runes of the Necro (20%), and 2 Sigils (2×15%) on one weapon set. This combo does not give a second tick.
So apparently you can’t extend you fears by 30% with 2 Sigils, just 15%. (bug?)
A) you contradicted yourself here
B) you DONT need 100% additional condi duration for fear to proc twice, it will already proc like 9/10 times if you just get master of terror~
C) for the 100000 time same sigils dont stack their bonuses…
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
You’re not paying attention, really. The reason why fear ticks twice without 100% fear duration is because it goes in sync with other condition’s ticks. IF fear is the first and only condition you apply to a target, it will generate the condition tick timer and will NEVER get a 2nd tick unless you have 100% fear duration.
So, the only way to reliably test what does and does not affect fear duration (since we’re talking tenths of seconds and we can’t reliably observe the debuff) is using Terror and stacking up Fear duration to the limit where it does not get a 2nd tick (2 seconds+) and then applying the extra duration effect we are testing (in this case the sigil).
I’m not trying to say that this sigil’s effect it is a massively important discovery in practice, where you will more often than not have other conditions on target and 50% duration from the fear trait is enough to reliably get 2 ticks of Terror most of the time (not all the time though). What I am saying is that it has some synergy with more than just the WH daze and you don’t really have any better options for the warhorn sigil in a condition spec anyway, so I can’t see why you wouldn’t take it.
I’m somewhat confused by the argument here. By experimental trial we’ve concluded that all conditions tick together, allowing fear to tick more then once without 100% duration if there are previous conditions applied. But he’s saying that fear is the only condition, so it should be impossible for it to tick a second time without 100% duration, so his test seems sound to me, an frankly it wouldn’t be the first time Anet has a poorly labeled description in the game.
A) you contradicted yourself here
B) you DONT need 100% additional condi duration for fear to proc twice, it will already proc like 9/10 times if you just get master of terror~
C) for the 100000 time same sigils dont stack their bonuses…
But he’s saying that fear is the only condition, so it should be impossible for it to tick a second time without 100% duration
And Master of Terror gives you a 1,5 second fear. That means you’ll average 5/10 2nd ticks (not 9/10), if there are other conditions to set up the timer for it.
C) That is not true for all Sigils.
For example: 2 Kill stacking Sigils will give you +2 for each kill (25 is still the limit).
Or 2 Sigils of Earth increase your chance to inflict bleeding. The internal CD cancels out the second one, but they both are in effect concerning their chance to proc on crit.
I run 0-30-20-0-20 and was using Scepter/Dagger until I gave Warhorn a try last night in WvW and sPvP. I tweaked my traits to have Terror, Banshee’s Wail, Lingering Curses, and Master of Terror. Instead of running Epidemic - BiP - Locust Siggy I went with Epi - Corrupt Boon - Spectral Walk. I didn’t feel like running BiP without Dagger 4 to drop the self bleeds. That and I sucked at CB the last time I tried to mainline it.
After 1 night, I’m pleased with the initial results. I was actually using CorBoon effectively for a change. Having that much Swiftness between fights was VERY nice. I missed having Dagger 5 for juicy group bleeding, but focused on Epidemic off the Scepter auto.
I eventually got jumped while alone by a D/P thief during a run back. He wasn’t glass and using Warhorn 5 and Spectral Walk for mobility, horn daze for breathing room, and the usual fear/DS soak and dodging, I honestly believe we were at a stalemate for about 90 seconds before a friendly helped end it.
I’m going to tweak out Path of Midnight for Spectral Mastery tonight. I think having 36s of swiftness every 48s (vs 60s) and the teleport potential will be better than having a DS fear every 17s (vs 20s). Spookstep helped with that thief a lot and was great in some zerg ups too.
Zestee, Cryptician Zetti, Zissi The Jack, Zi Mao,
Ziffy Snidehide, Zadie Hawkkin, Zannie Oakley, Zuulja
[ODIN],[NaCl] – Tarnished Coast
Dear god, people learn that conditions dont have a “starting” timer on application, they just tick pre second, if you apply it right a 101% condi duration fear gives 2 ticks, Said applies to poison, terror, burning and agony, bleeding is kinda different because each stack is chained one after the other (thus tons of small numbers kitten around when you get a good epidemic off).
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Dear god, people learn that conditions dont have a “starting” timer on application, they just tick pre second, if you apply it right a 101% condi duration fear gives 2 ticks, Said applies to poison, terror, burning and agony, bleeding is kinda different because each stack is chained one after the other (thus tons of small numbers kitten around when you get a good epidemic off).
Unless you’re going to come up with a good testing method that proves what you’re saying about getting 2 ticks with a less-than-2-second fear without other condition applied, you’re not really making a point.
As a matter of fact I’m willing to bet you whatever you want that if you apply fear to a target before any other condition with less than 100% extra fear duration, you will never get a 2nd tick with the way it works now. If, say, you have 50% bonus fear duration and cast a mark of blood immediately followed by reaper’s mark you will pretty much always get the 2nd tick.
Also, your point about bleed stack damage being chained and not stacked is completely moot; go stack 10 bleeds and poison and whatever else you like on a golem and watch how his hp bar moves in chunks each second, not draining slowly as you see the numbers pop up. The on-screen damage display is just for show, doesn’t accurately show the timing of damage application.
Unless you’re going to come up with a good testing method that proves what you’re saying about getting 2 ticks with a less-than-2-second fear without other condition applied, you’re not really making a point.
As a matter of fact I’m willing to bet you whatever you want that if you apply fear to a target before any other condition with less than 100% extra fear duration, you will never get a 2nd tick with the way it works now. If, say, you have 50% bonus fear duration and cast a mark of blood immediately followed by reaper’s mark you will pretty much always get the 2nd tick.
Also, your point about bleed stack damage being chained and not stacked is completely moot; go stack 10 bleeds and poison and whatever else you like on a golem and watch how his hp bar moves in chunks each second, not draining slowly as you see the numbers pop up. The on-screen damage display is just for show, doesn’t accurately show the timing of damage application.
You just need to start the combat tick counter (enemy having any kind of regen, applying a condition, hitting a enemy with protection, etc).
Only 10 into spite since im too lazy to swap my lich and lyssa runes out, 10 into curses for terror and 20 into SR for master of terror, 2 ticks, even if id replace my hydromancy sigil for para sigil (and if it would work with fear) it wouldnt be 100% additional fear duration.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
I tried to replicate your results with both 80% fear duration and just Master of Terror.
I must have tried about 50 Reaper’s Marks and Dooms on the spot where all those golems are clumped up. So it’s safe to say that I made about 200-300 samples.
I could not get 2 ticks of fear ever! Not one time. I don’t know what you did in those screenshots, but it sure wasn’t what I tested.
I could not get 2 ticks of fear ever! Not one time. I don’t know what you did in those screenshots, but it sure wasn’t what I tested.
Were you in combat already before using fear (i dazed first), thats the only requirement, got it on 4th and 5th try from 6 (kinda sucky at timing it right since im on NA from EU), if you actually just drop fear as a opener it will always just do the initial tick.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
if you actually just drop fear as a opener it will always just do the initial tick.
Duuuuude -.-
Why would you disagree with us if you knew this the whole time?
My test was about just that: start with a 90% increased fear and then see if the Sigil pushes it over 100% for a second tick.
Btw just beeing in combat is not enough. Unless the training golem you attacked dies or you walk away a huge distance, you’ll be stuck in combat forever. So all my tests were performed with perma combat-mode.
if you actually just drop fear as a opener it will always just do the initial tick.
Duuuuude -.-
Why would you disagree with us if you knew this the whole time?
My test was about just that: start with a 90% increased fear and then see if the Sigil pushes it over 100% for a second tick.
Btw just beeing in combat is not enough. Unless the training golem you attacked dies or you walk away a huge distance, you’ll be stuck in combat forever. So all my tests were performed with perma combat-mode.
No, you get 2nd tick if you were in combat with the thing, you dont get it if you could swap utilites and just doom/reapers out of the blue… i mean what person stats off by fearing? We were talking pvp dagger vs warhorn right?
Also just as lag hates me maybe just you got really unlucky with ticks… or as said you werent in actual combat with the thing/didnt do anything to it for a while… Or maybe the golems are buggy as ususal (they had medium and light swapped for quite the while, the 3rd one was spawning half underground for 2 weeks on Ebay mists and you know the field o golems, yeah they used to be infinite respawns if something died, so drop engie turret, kaboomed it, armada of lifeless).
Best thing i can say is, try it with a friend (guardian or engie with kit on are best so that they are in actual combat after you hit them with a normal attack via regen effects) youll get 2 ticks most of the time, but hey if para sigil makes the placebo work and you time stuff perfectly all the time because of it, enjoy, at least they aint worthless on 6 out of 8 professions then anymore.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Yeah i got the second tick with just 2 lich runes a few times, doesnt mean it adds duration to it.
This entire discussion between us started because you didn’t believe that the sigil increases the duration of fear.
My test however showed that it does.
I’m very aware that you won’t start a fight with doom and that it is very likely that there will already be a condition on your target. But that is irrelevant to varifying if the Sigil affects fear or not.
Also just as lag hates me maybe just you got really unlucky with ticks… or as said you werent in actual combat with the thing/didnt do anything to it for a while…
+90% fear duration on 200-300 inflicted fears and no extra fear tick. Yeah, that’s not unlucky, but it statistically proves a second tick to be impossible.
And again, I was in combat the entire time (no utility switching possible). But if by “didnt do anything to it for a while” you mean that there was no condition on the golems before I feared them… then yes, I didn’t do that because that was the point of the test.
This entire discussion between us started because you didn’t believe that the sigil increases the duration of fear.
My test however showed that it does.
I’m very aware that you won’t start a fight with doom and that it is very likely that there will already be a condition on your target. But that is irrelevant to varifying if the Sigil affects fear or not.
+90% fear duration on 200-300 inflicted fears and no extra fear tick. Yeah, that’s not unlucky, but it statistically proves a second tick to be impossible.
And again, I was in combat the entire time (no utility switching possible). But if by “didnt do anything to it for a while” you mean that there was no condition on the golems before I feared them… then yes, I didn’t do that because that was the point of the test.
You know even if there is a 00.0000000000001% of something happening, it can
Or just that you really suck at timing… Also 300 fears means nothing if 1/3of them are applied at the same time (as in testing on multiple opponents with reapers is pointless.
Either way i know i got 2 ticks off fear with 1% 30% and 80% condi duration, but didnt get it with 0+sigil, so i really dont care, use it if you think it helps.
Also the didnt do anything means didnt do any damage to them for a enemy to hold aggro (you can hold aggro even if you are out of combat and can be stuck in combat even if enemy has no aggro, but those are kinda engine bugs – reason why minions used to be really derpy), so just make sure to do WH daze, WoD or any small base damage with Steady weapon aa before fearing.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
Either way i know i got 2 ticks off fear with 1% 30% and 80% condi duration, but didnt get it with 0+sigil, so i really dont care, use it if you think it helps.
You still don’t get it.
It’s not about how it makes me feel or if I think it helps or whatever.
The question is: does the sigil increase fear duration by 15%? Answer: yes it does. How do I know this? Because I used a reliable method of testing it. You did not.
Either way i know i got 2 ticks off fear with 1% 30% and 80% condi duration, but didnt get it with 0+sigil, so i really dont care, use it if you think it helps.
You still don’t get it.
It’s not about how it makes me feel or if I think it helps or whatever.
The question is: does the sigil increase fear duration by 15%? Answer: yes it does. How do I know this? Because I used a reliable method of testing it. You did not.
Well it didnt do a thing when i frapsed (no time difference 0 cond dur just it and doom), but i also got screenshots of me getting 2 procs of terror without it, give me your with it *and 85% cond duration if you want* and ok whatever it does increase fear duration, till then im plain gonna say no.
When life gives you lemon, ask if its from a anime or manga.
1st ss is out of combat to show i did not hit that golem with anything prior to reaper’s mark, 2nd ss is while casting, 3rd is first tick, 4th is second tick just as the fear ran out
20% from runes of the necromancer (afaik can’t get more)
15% from spite traitline
50% from master of terror trait
I’ll let you be the judge of what the other 15% is.
Sure you’re not going to start hitting a target with fear nobody’s arguing that (I hope), but that 15% coupled with 20% from runes means you can get 2 ticks of fear reliably in a normal rotation without the master of terror trait, so you get the option to use that slot for something else.
I like warhorn for it’s mobility and daze which is good to stop some stomps or healing skills.
But in a higher rated tPvP match, necro has to find a place where he is far enough from the battle but can still cast spells from above.
And this makes warhorn completely useless. If you get in range, you are already dead. You can buy time with DS or plague form but you can’t use your warhorn in either situations.
AoE bleeding is good, and this 2 counts as 4 if epidemic is being used after cast. 4 aoe bleeding (approx. bonus 500 dps on everyone) from a safe range. Sounds better then -2 weapon skills in a fight.
Between capture points, swiftness would be better. But once you arrive it becomes useless. That1s why a necro should always watch out for enemy movement while standing between 2 points so that he arrives in time.
Captain Deutschland, Ozzy The Insane, Hanz Limbchewer – r40+ mes/nec/engi Desolation
Fear The Crazy [Huns]
You can cast the dagger spells from upstairs in Forest or the roof in Temple, but you can’t aim any warhorn spells.
And those are spots where necros kitten ppl from a safe distance :P as a nec you should always avoid a direct teamfight yet be the one to change it’s outcome. Well, change it if Signet of Undeath wouldn’t be bugged since last week
Captain Deutschland, Ozzy The Insane, Hanz Limbchewer – r40+ mes/nec/engi Desolation
Fear The Crazy [Huns]
Signet of undeath is too mainstream as well as OH dagger. I run flesh wurm. But I am mostly soloing so that explains why I got it.
Nah Signet of Undeath is the best necro spell in a team. :P Once I ressed up 3 guys in tPvP with only 1 signet (the kind of moment that happens once in a year). That one spell won the fight for the buff in Temple, and with that, the match.
But now the signet is bugged and sometimes won’t ress people with low hp, just heals them a bit. Wonderful.. if they are really going to buff necros they should fix this bug asap.
Captain Deutschland, Ozzy The Insane, Hanz Limbchewer – r40+ mes/nec/engi Desolation
Fear The Crazy [Huns]
Sure you’re not going to start hitting a target with fear nobody’s arguing that (I hope), but that 15% coupled with 20% from runes means you can get 2 ticks of fear reliably in a normal rotation without the master of terror trait, so you get the option to use that slot for something else.
From what I can tell Sigil of Paralyzation not only effects Fear, but can even take it over the +100% threshold which is normally a ceiling for duration bonus.
This can be tested by going into the mists and fearing the class NPC’s and measuring how far they run from you. They take about 2 more steps with the Sigil, as opposed to without, even when having 100% extra fear duration prior to the Sigil.
