Guild Wars 2

It seeems after 3y and constant Nerfs Necro still is considered OP and requires a Nerf from Anet. I dont get it.

Ok Its only the Condi Necro that is getting a Nerf , Power is actually imho getting a Buff or atleast a chance for a better Build with potentially higher dmg with Chill apply Vunerability trait aso… But the Curses GM wich have a Conflict between Terror & Scepter-Duration Trait is a real Nerf and forces Condi Necs to do a hard choice. Dhuumfire tho moved and removed ICD is a nerf.

I just dont get as atm Necro is the least played Class in 2 out of the 3 game-modes, I say it again; least played Anet

Ofc the other Nerfed Class is the Arcana Ele or DD Ele wich have now a similar hard choice in GM Arcana when Elemenatl Attunement and Evasive Arcana share a slot

I still prefer Power Necro think its more of a Challenge and more fun, it has always bin the weaker of the 2 and maybe now it will shine for a few months until Meta change again with introduction of GS and Elite Spez Trait.

Also why does it feels like when Josh talks about Necro in stream he sounds like its a burden and then all is fine again when they move to Ranger, left me with a wierd feeling in my stomach….

I just dont get you Anet

Anet

I don’t understand why some think that condi Necros are getting a Nerf… compared to now, you’ll be getting a BUFF.

For example let’s consider a WvW build running 0/6/2/0/6 now. You have Terror, Spectral Attunement, Shrouded Removal, spectral cooldowns, Soul Marks and Near to Death.

With the new change you’ll have 6 in Curses. The 1st minor will give you 20% bleed duration right off the bat. Mix that in with +40% condi duration food, and you’re at 60%. Mix in Krait runes and you’re at 100%. Then you can take Path of Corruption if you want more damage, OR you can take Banshee’s Wail if you’re running warhorn and want more sustain. Then you’re left with Terror… because the Lingering Curse won’t be necessary, and I doubt Parasitic contagion will be necessary.
-You’ll also have 6 in Death, which means a free Shrouded Removal… which is honestly a really good and underrated trait. I use it now with warhorn and Near to Death and it’s amazing. Anyway, you’ll be getting Shourded Removal easily here at no cost to staff cooldowns (you have to sacrifice staff cooldowns currently to get it).
-You’ll be able to get Reaper’s Protection or Greater Marks – both awesome traits.
You also get protection when you leave Deathshroud. Lastly you’ll be able to grab Unholy Sanctuary. This trait is also underrated imo. When you’re low on health and fear that a thief might burst you, but you have full lifeforce, this trait will be a really nice life saver. The regen is a little weak if you don’t spec heal power though. I think if you stay long enough, and then leave Deathshroud (to gain protection from Grandmaster minor trait) you’ll be safe to use your heal skill and voila, you’re good to go. Also if you have Reaper’s Protection that can be another layer of protection which you did not have before.

-Then you have Soul Reaping. You’ll get your free staff cooldowns along with Soul Marks here – both really good traits which increase sustain nicely.
-You can grab Spectral Attunement for more sustain, or master of terror for damage, or vital persistence.
-Lastly you’ll have Dhuumfire or Foot in the Grave.

So what would you get that currently you won’t have?
-20% bleed duration
-Path of Corruption or Banshee’s Wail
-Protection when leaving DS
-Greater Marks or Reaper’s Prot
-Unholy Sanctuary
-Staff cooldowns
-Dhuumfire or Foot in the grave (You could still grab foot in the grave with the other build though)

If you don’t go into Death Magic, you could easily go into Spite for a whole other Necro condi build that focuses on boon removal and chills/vulnerability.
So…. where is the nerf to condi Necro again…?

The only things I’m bothered about is the 10-second DS cooldown… but I think that between Spectral Walk, Wurm, Unholy Sanctuary and Beyond the Veil, you’ll be able to live for 10 seconds inbetween the other things are some Death Magic traits because if you’re not going for minions… you can really only take Unholy Sanctuary. That’s fine, but it’s not really… diverse. Blood Magic is a little strange too, but I could see it working. Vital persistence + Unholy Martyr + Banshee’s Wail with generosity sigils or something.

Food, Runes has nothing to do with trait changes so why even bring that up. Shrouded Removal is NOT a specific Condi based Necro trait is it ? so dont get that either, I said in wich Traits and How I think a Condi Necro is getting nerfed and I still stick to it.

GM trait in Curses (huge nerf mainly due to a choice)
Dhuumfire is a Nerf, do that math

Not only are we now forced to lose either lingering curse or terror from our builds wich will lower our condition damage yet again, the second and first tier also have a trait each that way outshines the others (Lingering Curse and Weaking Shroud) so there wont be much build diversity in the curses line appart from in tier 3

Nobody is denying that we get more skillpoints like all the other classes.

Unlike all the other classes we don’t get many buffs to our traits. Even nerfs like the Dhuumfire, Terror and Axe. Overall many traits are just slotted weirdly into the lines and still give the idea that they had no clear plan where to go with the necro. If they dont want to buff them they should at least be swaped arround a bit.

Not to mention that Curses offer no good non condi option for GM but excelent power minors, Blood Magic still fiercely battles our core class mechanic and Death Magic is only valuable to Minion Mancers. They put one usefull master into Death Magic for both condi and power specs each. One trait. For the whole line. Yea people will still take Unholy Sanctuary because they have no choice. And i get that feeling a lot when i look at most of the necro traits.
Our whole direct damage still focuses on applying voulun which and ele can do in 2 secs by taking one utility. But hey rock bottom PvE and allways will be.

Ravezaar.4951:

Food, Runes has nothing to do with trait changes so why even bring that up. Shrouded Removal is NOT a specific Condi based Necro trait is it ? so dont get that either, I said in wich Traits and How I think a Condi Necro is getting nerfed and I still stick to it.

GM trait in Curses (huge nerf mainly due to a choice)
Dhuumfire is a Nerf, do that math

When looking at a build, you HAVE to take into account food/runes/sigils. Not looking at those is looking at only a small part of a build, which is not right. Sure, without food and runes you might think that Necros will have no small condi duration and all of the sudden you’re forced to choose between Lingering Curse and Terror. When you factor in armor, runes, sigils and food… you can EASILY bring your condi duration up to 70%+ . If you can choose armor that gives you 30% condi duration (like Spite traitline does now), and you grab Nightmare Runes, and Koi Cakes, that’s 85% condi duration! Why would you be forced to choose between Lingering Curses and Terror when your condi duration is already huge?
-Shrouded Removal is a trait which you will now be able to get as a condi Necro at no cost to your staff cooldowns. Shrouded Removal will remove a condi when you enter DS, and it’s a buff to condi Necro builds which invest into Death Magic.
-Dhuumfire which they showed was a “beta version”. They said “focus on functionality” not the numbers. If we do that, then now EVERY life blast will apply burning, as opposed to just 1. This makes your burns harder to cleanse because you can keep reapplying them. Also, builds which previously were NOT able to get Dhuumfire, such as the build I listed ( 0/6/2/0/6) will now have it. You’ll keep the tankyness of Death Magic and Soul Reaping on TOP of having Dhuumfire, which is currently in the Spite Traitline which is purely offensive.
-If you’re a warhorn condi Necro with Banshee’s Wail, Shrouded Removal, Unholy Sanctuary and Spectral Attunement, you’ll be very, very hard to kill.

I know there’s some problems with the traitlines but looking at just condi Necros, you’ll be getting a buff when compared to how we are now.

MethaneGas.8357:

When looking at a build, you HAVE to take into account food

I’m sorry but WvW is never relevant in a discussion about class balance. Ever.

Aktium.9506:

MethaneGas.8357:

When looking at a build, you HAVE to take into account food

I’m sorry but WvW is never relevant in a discussion about class balance. Ever.

You can use food in PvE and WvW, which is 2/3 of Guild Wars 2. Of course it’s relevant AND significant.
The only place where it isn’t significant is sPvP, but even if we exclude food, you can bring your condi duration to 45%, and bleed duration to 65% (30% condi duration from armor, 15% from runes and 20% bleed duration from curses minor).
If you use something like krait runes, your bleed duration would be 30 + 45 + 20 = 95% even without taking food into account.
The only question is whether armor will make up for the % condi duration lost from Spite. It should, but we will see if it will.

MethaneGas.8357:

The only place where it isn’t significant is sPvP

And PvP happens to be where balance is the most important. Balance in PvE boils down to whether you can bring enough damage and/or support that boosts damage to be worth taking in a party over another class. The mobs also won’t complain about broken stuff. And WvW is flat out not balanced for any manner of small scale fighting.

WvW is actually pretty balanced imo. If you take into account that everyone gets food and all the crazy stats, in a sense it’s balanced. I play WvW and there isn’t anything that I think is WILDLY OP in every regard except maybe rangers… but they’re only OP when you’re fighting them and you’re outnumbered.
Why say that condi Necro is getting a nerf when it will be stronger than it is now?

Methane your wrong. Sorry. They balance the game with spvp in mind.

MethaneGas.8357:

WvW is actually pretty balanced imo. If you take into account that everyone gets food and all the crazy stats, in a sense it’s balanced.

I played Aion. Everyone being crazy strong is not balance.

NeXeD.3042:

Methane your wrong. Sorry. They balance the game with spvp in mind.

I didn’t mean to say that they balance the game based on WvW. I meant to say that when thinking about condi Necros, you gotta think about condi Necro as a whole… which includes WvW and PvE, where you can use food. Some people think that having to choose between Lingering Curses and Terror is a nerf, but in PvE and WvW, you can use food which negates the need to use Lingering Curses. In sPvP I don’t think many condi Necros even used Lingering Curses to begin with… so how is it a nerf when that trait wasn’t even…. used as much? You can also (potentially) get really high condi duration without the new Lingering Curses so the choice isn’t even that hard.

Yeah in pvp I never used lingering curses. I’ve been surprised to see that there has been such a reaction to it on the same level as terror, but I suppose it is important for pve.

Roe.3679:

Yeah in pvp I never used lingering curses. I’ve been surprised to see that there has been such a reaction to it on the same level as terror, but I suppose it is important for pve.

Lingering curses has been the linchpin of my PvE condition build. PvE conditionmancer needed some help, and I just don’t see anything significant in the specs. The decisions we do have don’t seem exciting like they are for other classes. Dhuumfire doesn’t even look like it will be worth it for a scepter condition build.

The three grandmasters I see as most interesting all fill the same slot. (15% parasitic contagion could be neat in PvE, but not lingering curses level)

MethaneGas.8357:

NeXeD.3042:

Methane your wrong. Sorry. They balance the game with spvp in mind.

I didn’t mean to say that they balance the game based on WvW. I meant to say that when thinking about condi Necros, you gotta think about condi Necro as a whole… which includes WvW and PvE, where you can use food. Some people think that having to choose between Lingering Curses and Terror is a nerf, but in PvE and WvW, you can use food which negates the need to use Lingering Curses. In sPvP I don’t think many condi Necros even used Lingering Curses to begin with… so how is it a nerf when that trait wasn’t even…. used as much? You can also (potentially) get really high condi duration without the new Lingering Curses so the choice isn’t even that hard.

Where are you getting this condi duration in pvp may I ask?

But I never said anything about nerfs or lingering curses.

I understood you didn’t mean they should balance based on wvw, I understood you meant as a whole which includes pve, pvp, and wvw. But that’s still wrong. The game has to be balanced with structured pvp in mind because that’s the one part of the game where balance truly matters. Or at least it’s where balance matters most to ensure every player is enjoying a good product.

I’m still pretty fuzzy on alot of the new changes and I’m at work so I’m basically just going off what I’ve been reading on the forums…. so I’m confused about the new condition duration…. I understand the new lingering curses. What happened to the 30 condi duration from spite? Are we getting some sort of baseline boost? And they reworked lingering curse to give us more condi duration? Or is speccing in spite going to give us 30 duration somehow?

Also I know alot of people don’t really seem excited about these changes but I for one can see a few very interesting builds for pvp at least that I am really excited to try. 6/6/0/0/6 d/w s/d.

@methangas

Food Buffs,Runes and Sigils didnt change and was/is not part of the discussion so plz leave it out. We talk about the Trait-Changes here and nothing else. And a 1sec Dhuumfire even with no ICD is a Nerf and haveing both Terror & 100% Con Duration as GM in Curses is a big Nerf that is the point Iam makeing, if u compare that to what ALL other classes got yesterday only DD Eles can share this crap we got.

I can still as I say see Power Necro now being stronger however Power Necro has always bin behind Condi Necro in strenght and it now feels that none of our Builds really will be up to par in the current Meta.

Power Wellomancer in large scale WvW will still ofc has its place but thats is only a small part of my gameplay and I bet its not everyones game mode either.

And since necro is rarely represented in sPvP or tPvP (with a very few exceptions) and basicly non-existing in PvE of any kind (still several lfg that specificly say “no necro”) I then cant understand why Anet choose to do so little for this class and even in some cases Nerf it yet again when they clearly Buff up other classes….

If u dont see this I cant help u anymore

MrAptronym.2846:

Roe.3679:

Yeah in pvp I never used lingering curses. I’ve been surprised to see that there has been such a reaction to it on the same level as terror, but I suppose it is important for pve.

Lingering curses has been the linchpin of my PvE condition build. PvE conditionmancer needed some help, and I just don’t see anything significant in the specs. The decisions we do have don’t seem exciting like they are for other classes. Dhuumfire doesn’t even look like it will be worth it for a scepter condition build.

The three grandmasters I see as most interesting all fill the same slot. (15% parasitic contagion could be neat in PvE, but not lingering curses level)

If you don’t care for Soul Marks, you could take Unyielding Blast in combination with Dhuumfire. So when you’re in DS your Life Blast can hit up to 4 enemies with Burning on no CD. At 2000 condi damage it would be 828 Burning while bleeds are 142.5 per tick, or nearly 6 stacks of bleeds worth of condi damage while in DS per enemy hit with LB.

It will be interesting to see if entering DS with Scepter and the new Lingering Curse active will extend Dhuumfire and other condis in DS. The description has changed from “Scepter skills have increased condi duration” to “Wielding a Scepter increases condi duration.” This hints at LC acting much like the Axe Training we have now but for condi builds (sort of ironic Axe Training is being changed to prevent it buffing DS, but condis may get a similar DS function at the same time).

Honestly I think Parasitic Contagion could become the best of three Curse GMs, even in PvE if content does get more difficult. It’s easy for even the lowliest condi builds to do 1-2K worth of condi damage which would be 150-300 health per second. Epidemic that to five targets and you’re PC sustain is 750-1500 health. Multiple that by about two on a full condi dmg toon and you’re healing 1500-3000 health easily per tick from 5 targets.

Edit:

Ravezaar.4951:

@methangas
And a 1sec Dhuumfire even with no ICD is a Nerf and haveing both Terror & 100% Con Duration as GM in Curses is a big Nerf that is the point Iam makeing, if u compare that to what ALL other classes got yesterday only DD Eles can share this crap we got.

I’m pretty sure the screen of SR traits post changes shows Dhuumfire being 3 second Burning duration with no icd.

Methane, the thing that irritates me the most , is that now if I want to have a decent duration on my conditions, I will be forced to pick up Lingering curse, when most of the condi builds depend on having fear to do spike damage. In WVW this is especially important because of the amount of clears, etc. that effect conditions. Now chosing fear means, you will have less condi duration, and will only be able to increase it by the use of food, and that is not enough. Chosing lingering curse means, you will have no fear damage, at all. It is an unwarranted changed, and it will impact all our condi builds, and it is another nerf. Our damage will drop in either case.

Ravezaar.4951:

Also why does it feels like when Josh talks about Necro in stream he sounds like its a burden and then all is fine again when they move to Ranger, left me with a wierd feeling in my stomach….

That was exactly how I felt yesterday after their talks about Necro. It was truly unbelievable.

coconutdown.6512:

Ravezaar.4951:

Also why does it feels like when Josh talks about Necro in stream he sounds like its a burden and then all is fine again when they move to Ranger, left me with a wierd feeling in my stomach….

That was exactly how I felt yesterday after their talks about Necro. It was truly unbelievable.

Cuz he engi.

The changes aren’t as bad as everyone is making it seem.

Gryph.8237:

Methane, the thing that irritates me the most , is that now if I want to have a decent duration on my conditions, I will be forced to pick up Lingering curse, when most of the condi builds depend on having fear to do spike damage. In WVW this is especially important because of the amount of clears, etc. that effect conditions. Now chosing fear means, you will have less condi duration, and will only be able to increase it by the use of food, and that is not enough. Chosing lingering curse means, you will have no fear damage, at all. It is an unwarranted changed, and it will impact all our condi builds, and it is another nerf. Our damage will drop in either case.

Huh? You know the numbers on this? You know whether or not we’ll be compensated with Condi duration from other sources enough to make you not have to take Lingering Curses? You know what level of damage conditions are dropping to, and level of duration our base skills are going up to? You know how much condi damage we’ll be able to build to later?

The proper way to give feedback is that you’re concerned you won’t do enough condi damage because you feel like you need to choose between spike damage and duration. This then can either be an intended change, or there could be some changes to weapons/runes/sigils to help compensate, or they can change some other numbers.

NeXeD.3042:

Where are you getting this condi duration in pvp may I ask?

I’m still pretty fuzzy on alot of the new changes and I’m at work so I’m basically just going off what I’ve been reading on the forums…. so I’m confused about the new condition duration…. I understand the new lingering curses. What happened to the 30 condi duration from spite? Are we getting some sort of baseline boost? And they reworked lingering curse to give us more condi duration? Or is speccing in spite going to give us 30 duration somehow?

That’s what I’ve been speculating about personally… they said that we’d be able to get the stats that we lost from our traits through our armor… so I assume there will be some way of getting 30% condi duration from armor. If so, you could choose that stat variant and grab Nightmare Runes for 45% condi duration (still good) with 65% bleed duration because of the curses minor. Or you could grab Krait runes. Net effect with Krait Runes would be 30% overall condi duration from the armor, 45% bleed duration from krait, 20% from curses minor trait. So 95% bleed duration which would reduce the need to grab Lingering Curses. I dunno, I’m just theory crafting in my mind but if that’s how it will work, then I think Terror will easily out-compete Lingering Curse… or at least I think so. If there is no stats that give 30% condi duration, then that’s a whole different story.

@methangas

Food Buffs,Runes and Sigils didnt change and was/is not part of the discussion so plz leave it out. We talk about the Trait-Changes here and nothing else. And a 1sec Dhuumfire even with no ICD is a Nerf and haveing both Terror & 100% Con Duration as GM in Curses is a big Nerf that is the point Iam makeing, if u compare that to what ALL other classes got yesterday only DD Eles can share this crap we got.

Yeah but it’s so wrong to look at just the traits and then say we got nerfed. You HAVE to look at everything that’s available to make a fair judgement. First of all, I think the current Lingering Curse is similar to Koi Cakes (40% condi duration food)…. since we’re talking about PvE, where food IS available, you’ll be able to pick up Koi Cakes and you’re basically on the same footing as you are now.
— For example… right now if you have 30 in spite, Nightmare Runes and Lingering Curse, you have 78% condi duration when with scepter skills and and 45% duration on all other condis. If you use Koi Cakes NOW… you’ll have +40% condi duration.
So: 85% to all condis and 100% on scepter condis.

What will change?
You’ll grab Koi Cakes (40%), 30% condi duration from armor ( hopefully), Nightmare runes (another 15%) which is 85% duration to all condis and 100% to bleeds from Curses minor.

So it seems like it actually might be a tiny bit lower. Poison duration from scepter will decrease by 15% and so will cripple, but Mark of Blood duration will increase, Dark Path, Tainted Shackles, sigils, etc. You’ll also have higher crit chance against people with condis which will can trigger bleeds with Curses minor. You’ll also be able to have Dhuumfire. So… the net effect is actually… either the condi output is the same, or the new output will be stronger. I actually think the condi output will be stronger after they change the traits.

In sPvP, condi Necros don’t really take Lingering Curse, so there was no loss here. Condi Necros in sPvP will actually get buffed, when compared to how they are now. They will still have Terror and Path of Corruption. Once again…. they said to focus on the functionality, NOT the numbers. So if we look at the Dhuumfire now, and compare it to the Dhuumfire we saw in the preview… it’s natural to assume a nerf… but if we use our brains, we’ll know that Dhuumfire will not look like that when they release the traits. Burning might stack, and if it does, I can almost guarantee it won’t be 1 stack of burning per life blast. If it is one stack, then it won’t last for only 1 second. Even if it’s 2 seconds that can already scale with condi duration, so you could potentially bring it up to 4 seconds per life blast. You cast 2 life blasts and the enemy will burn for 8 seconds, for example. If the duration is 3 seconds… well.. then it becomes quite strong.

@Gryph,
I think that really depends… because in WvW, if we are able to grab 30% condi duration from armor stats, + koi cakes + nightmare runes, you’ll have 85% condi duration (and 105% bleed duration) permanently… so there will be no need to grab Lingering Curse.
IF you CAN’T get 30% from armor then I can see the problem for people who currently use Lingering Curse.

Theres no armor in pvp… so those solutions are pretty much null…. you have to view it from a pvp perspective because that’s how the balance team does it.

The nerf is that there is no more condi duration from spite. So now we need condi duration. Huzzaaah lingering curses! But kitten god kitten t now you have to choose between having condis that have some staying power or burst condi damage.

But since I don’t think any of us have any idea how they will replace the 30 condi duration from spite I think a lot of people are assuming that Lingering curses was the replacement. I’m curious if it is… or if they will give us some baseline duration increase depending on our specializations.

Nex, this is my fear exactly. Basically condi builds in PVP will have to take lingering curses, and terror is just dropped. That is sort of a huge slap to the face.

Comparing Lingering Curses now with the damage we’d be able to put out after the patch:

Feel free to correct me if I missed something or did something wrong. Feel free to disagree. There were so many things to juggle and consider, but with some calculation, we can see how the duration of condis will change. I will do calculations for WvW/PvE first.

-Nightmare runes (15% condi duration)
-Koi Cakes (40% condi duration food)
-30 points in spite (30% condi duration)
-Superior Sigil of Malice (10% condi duration)

The above add up to 95% condi duration. If we are able to get 30% condi duration from armor after the patch (because we will lose it from spite), then before and after the patch, a Necro is able to get 95% condi duration.
-Lingering Curse is a Curses Grandmaster trait that increases the BASE duration of scepter condis, which stacks with the above 95% condi duration.

Blood / Rending /Putrid Curse:
Bleed Base: 5 seconds:
With Lingering Curse – Bleed Base: 6.65 sec
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 9.75 seconds
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 13 seconds

Poison Base: 4 seconds
With Lingering Curse – Poison Base: 5.32 sec
Poison with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 7.8 seconds
Poison with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 10.4 seconds

Grasping Dead
Bleeding Base : 7 seconds
With Lingering Curse – Bleed Base: 9.31 sec
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 13.65 seconds
Bleeding with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 18.1 seconds
Cripple Base: 5 sec
With Lingering Curse – Cripple Base: 6.65 sec
Cripple with 95% condi duration, without Lingering Curse: 9.75 seconds
Cripple with 95% condi duration, WITH Lingering Curse: 13 seconds
It seems that Necros have longer condi duration with Lingering Curses and thus, more damage.

What will happen after the patch?
-Necro condi damage remains at 95% IF you are able to get 30% condi duration from armor.
-Necro has to choose between Terror or Lingering Curse. This will really depend on the functionality of Lingering Curse. If Lingering Curse increases condi duration by a flat 100% and doesn’t stack with food, sigils, runes, then there will be no need to take Lingering Curse because you’ll be able to get the same condi duration without even using Lingering Curse. So you’ll be using Terror and won’t be using Lingering Curse.

Will this reduce damage?
Maybe.
-We will lose 3.25 seconds of bleed on scepter auto attack and 2.6 seconds of poison
-We will lose 4.45 seconds of bleeds from Grasping Dead (3 stacks) and 3.25 seconds of cripple.

What will we gain?
-Massive vulnerability application from Spite —> team will deal more damage
-Path of Corruption
-More bleeds from Target the Weak (increased crits against enemies with condis on them)
-Changed Dhuumfire – whether it will be stronger or weaker or the same is yet to be determined.

Will the net effect be lower damage or higher damage than we have now? I personally think the damage will be basically the same. You lose duration from scepter, but you will crit more and thus cause more bleeds and more damage. You will also be able to apply lots of vulnerability, which will increase your allies damage. If you cause 10 stacks of vulnerability on a group of enemies and 3 warriors do a 10k hundred blades, that’s 3k damage that came out because of YOUR vulnerability.

Whether the damage will be higher or lower also depends on two things:
1) Whether the NEW Lingering Curse will increase the base durations of each condi, similar to how it works now. If this is the case then if you grab the new Lingering Curse AND have 95% condi duration, your condi output will be MASSIVE when you are using scepter. Arguably the damage would be even higher than if you had terror because ALL of your condis would have double the duration. For example, 20 second bleeds per scepter auto attack, or 27 second bleeds with Grasping Dead, etc. This could potentially apply to every condi you put out (from sigils, runes, etc), as long as you are using scepter at that moment.

2) It also depends on whether you are able to get 30% condi duration from armor to make up for the 30% condi duration lost from Spite

Final verdict:
To me it looks like condi damage should be the similar or higher for current Lingering Curse Necros. It depends on whether 30% condi duration is obtainable from armor, and whether Lingering Curse increases condi duration by a flat amount (like food – can’t go above 100% duration) or if it increases the base duration (which stacks with 100% condi duration from other sources). I wish things were a bit clarified in terms of how it will all work out but in my opinion, even though we’re Necros, not everything is grim

What about condi Necro in sPvP?
Compared to now, I think we will be getting a buff. I could do a calculation for this as well but I don’t know if it’s necessary.

If you run 0/6/4/0/4 now, then with the new system you will basically gain two more grandmasters (including, potentially, Dhuumfre). You never relied on condi duration in that build so Lingering Curse will be irrelevant to that build, or so I think. You’d still have Path of Corruption, Terror, but you’d have additional things like Soul Marks, Shrouded Removal, Unholy Sanctuary, Dhuumfire (or foot in the grave), which are all buffs because they’re new things added to the build.

The ONLY nerf I can see is if you went into Spite and now you lost condi duration. However spite will now be really good (chills will cause vulnerability, which is a cover condi. You’ll also cause vulnerability when an enemy is low) and you will have more boon removal/additional AoE cripple from the Spite Grandmaster Spiteful Spirit. Whether that will make up for condi duration lost is debatable, but currently Necros don’t really rely on condi duration in sPvP and the damage is still good.
-If Lingering Curse increases the base duration of condis by 100%, it will be a really good alternative to Terror and could have crazy consequences. For example if you are able to get 30% condi duration from armor and 45% bleed duration from Krait Runes, your bleeds would be massive (17.5 seconds from scepter auto attack, for example).

I think Necros will be getting a buff in sPvP because their sustain will go up, which is what we need. Feel free to disagree, but that is just what I think (currently), although a lot of things are still up in the air.

Necro buff in sustain…other classes got power creep on both offense,defense and utility gr8 sustain the necro will have m8. They need an official red tag thread to actually make us even think “things are still in their air” for necro.

Aktium.9506:

MethaneGas.8357:

The only place where it isn’t significant is sPvP

PvE boils down to whether you can bring enough damage and/or support that boosts damage…

You mean blast finishers for might stacking? Because my necro can apply vulnerability and rip prot well enough when the /mace warrior is slacking.

Sagat.3285:

Necro buff in sustain…other classes got power creep on both offense,defense and utility gr8 sustain the necro will have m8. They need an official red tag thread to actually make us even think “things are still in their air” for necro.

If we look at the most common Necro build in sPvP, the 0/6/4/0/4 build…
What will the new Necro (after the patch) get and what will it lose?

+Buffed Barbed Precision (went from 2 second bleed up to 3 second bleed, along with a free 20% bleed duration)
+New Target The Weak —> more crits to people with condis --> more bleeds from barbed precision
+Beyond the Veil – Protection when leaving DS —> better sustain
+Shrouded Removal – condi cleanse when entering DS --> better sustain
+Unholy Sanctuary —> Better sustain (synergizes nicely with Soul Marks)
+Soul Marks --> 3.3% life force per mark —> better sustain
+Foot in the Grave --> CC resistance —> sustain OR Dhuumfire --> more pressure from DS OR Death Perception for more crits —> more bleeds. Death Perception would synergize well with something like carrion because it would give you high crit chance, but you’d have power to build off of it too.

What would we lose?
-Path of Midnight – 15% DS cooldowns
-Nerfed Enfeebling Blood. This needs to be buffed and I hope it changes. The cooldown was likely extended so much because of the new Lingering Curse. If could potentially cause 4 seconds of weakness every 7 seconds. With the proposed duration of weakness (6 seconds) and Lingering Curse, you’d be able to put out 12 secs of weakness from Weakening shroud. If you mix in your dagger Enfeebling Blood (which would scale from Lingering Curse too for another 12 seconds), that’s hugggee weakness uptime. I still think that the proposed 25 sec cooldown is a bit too much, especially if a Necro doesn’t use Lingering Curses. I dunno. A good to alternative to Terrormancers could be Chilling Darkness because it now went from 1 sec chill to a 2 sec chill. This means it can scale REALLY good with condi duration / chill duration.

That’s only going off of the same trait spread.

I do agree that some other classes (like thieves and rangers… and engis) got some really crazy stuff though.

Conditions are being reworked,most of us are expecting weak condition everywhere due to Lingering Curse so no Terror and low ramp up damage for more facetanking is expected. Burning and poison stack in intensity,compared to other classes I don’t see much for necro. The worst that could happen is that the first wet noodle condition spec will be created.

Every class was more impressive than necro.

I think only some people think that condi Necro got nerfed, not nearly all. I personally don’t think they’ll nerf our condi output… why would they? If that were the case… Barber Precision wouldn’t get a buff (20% condi duration and went from 2 sec bleed to 3 sec bleed). Chilling Darkness went from 1 sec to 2 secs. Both of those scale with Lingering Curses and yet they were buffed. Sure Lingering Curse will make condis last longer but if you take Lingering Curses:

a) it will apply to only your scepter / x weaponset (so if you swap, all that extra condi duration is now gone).
b) You have no terror damage. Your damage will be higher when using scepter (through condi duration) but you’ll have no damage from fears, and if you swap your weapon, your fears will STILL do no damage, and will lose all that duration. Keep in mind that Terrormancers can still get 65% fear duration (Master of Terror + Nightmare Runes), so the duration of fears from having Lingering Curses and having Master of Terror + Nightmare Runes isn’t far off. And also: damage.

Fear won’t do any damage but for now it just inspires negative speculations and also history of balance. I just want to test it for myself vs others and vice versa.

We lost 50% of our deathshroud buff in soul reaping, therefor any build that relies on that trait line got nerfed. yay.

Easterbunny.6170:

We lost 50% of our deathshroud buff in soul reaping, therefor any build that relies on that trait line got nerfed. yay.

All Necros got 15% increase in their lifeforce pool without any points needed in SR. If you pick SR as one of your 3 trait lines, you will get another 15% from the 3rd Minor trait. So we’re fine in that regard

Terror is integral to almost all condi builds and the difference between anet’s arbitrary distinction of a terrormancer and condi mancer is the master if terror trait, not terror itself. Moving terror has screwed this up and it will have a noticeable impact. The devs have not considered it.