Guild Wars 2

Warning: Wall of Text incoming!

Hello forum,
I recentely came back to play Guild Wars after an absence of several months. I was interested in the latest changes in the game that nerfed the Berserkers and introduced the new traits.
In my opinion both are great failures. The new traits in the Necromancers are subpar, useless or too far from the useful trait lines to be considered and the Zerks are requested more then before.
But please: this is not a post of rant, we may discuss about these problems in another post, if you like.

My actual build is really simple and is born as a troll/fun build but the more I used the more I found it working on most situations, even more then other classic berserker build.
It’s a purely PvE, open-world, definitely not a sPvP nor WvW build.
Since I’m pratically forced to use a Berserker build after one year of struggle I decided to build a berserker equipment and try a build. I used the great Spoj’s build but I found it too difficult to use.

First of all there are a few things you should know and if read “Minion Master” in the post subject and you read so far then you have the courage to continue. We all know the minion’s AI is terrible and its shameful that ArenaNet did not fix it after one year.
However:

• The more I use them the more I found something incredible that they works almost perfectly in Dungeon. The answer to commands, they attack immediately and with practice it’s possible to direct them at your will.
• In open world they sucks but not everywhere: it seems some part of maps make them works.
• Moving, changing weapon, use their skills, moving again, seems to unstuck them.

I found Spoj’s build dealing nice damage but have no survability. I came up to the conclusion that we cannot reach the damage of a Warrior or any other boring class, so maximixing our damage is useless, if you keep dying, if you have to move away to heal or you switch to the Axe which have a terrible DPS (yes, I still use the axe anyway, there is no way to avoid it).
I wanted, instead, more survability but still deal good damage so I dediced to sacrifice some of it for more heals.

I don’t know you guys how you test your builds but I use the Invulnerable Golem in the Heart of the Mists.
I do this way: I clock the time passed when I start dealing him damage util I “kill” it (since it reset his life when it reaches 0) at least 5 times. I use 5 “loops” because otherwise a “burst” build may sounds too powerful instead of an “attrition” one and it’s not always the case (like a boss which often require more time).
Friend warriors and thief prove me that the average of 20s is the time to beat for awesome damage, around 22s is the time for good damage, up to 25s for still-good-but-normal-well-at-least-is-fine damage and above 25s trash your build.

My test gave me an average of 22s for Spoj’s build: and an average of 24s with mine. A big difference? It’s up to you decide if it’s worth.

Said so, here the build.

gw2skills.com link

Preface
First of all you may notice the absence of good trait that gives you damage like Close to Death or Target the Weak. The reasons behind them are simple: you don’t really need it because, as I said, I’m sacrifing some damage for survavibility and they really don’t give you that damage.

In-Depth Discussion
4/0/6/4/0

1/4

Spite
III – Spiteful Removal is an awesome trait in PvE. To use it effectively I often leave some trash mob unharmed until I need it. This trait works very well in combo with Parasitic Bond, the build gives you a bit of healing power (with Death into Life and the points in Blood Magic) making this two traits a good source of healing and condition removal.
In my build I don’t use any Condition Removal and I found this trait enough in most cases.

IX – Training of the Master – Don’t underestimate this trait: minions deals quite good damage.
However if you want to be less depended of minions you may sacrifice 2 points from Death Magic, drop Death Nova and Training of the Master in favor of Axe Training and maybe Close to Death.

Death Magic
Armored Shroud – is useless: you rarely stay in Death Shroud. Sometimes you pop in Death Shroud to prevent some damage or to deal AOE damage with Life Transfer but… meh.
III – Minion Master is mandatory: while with the next trait minions are not squishy at all they however die easily expecially in big aoe, you have to respawn them oftenly. 90% of the time you want them all up but sometime you may want them to spawn one by one, usually in strange situation (bosses can be kited with minions but they tend to eat them quickly, so you may want to evoke one by one).
Soul Comprehension – As far as I know it works also when your minions die or you kill your Bone Minions by will.
X – Flesh of the Master This awesome trait gives you that bit of toughness that, in addition to the poins in Death Magic, makes you more resistant. You are not going to tank as a Guardian but believe me: you are going to survive much more then before.
Note: it works with the Jagged Horrors spawned from Death Nova. I can confirm you can have up to three Jagged Horrors with this trait.
Deadly Strength – The more Minions you have the more thoughness you have, the more power you have. Not a life changing trait but still good.
XI – Death Nova Awesome trait: your minions die? AOE Damage and Poison Field on the ground. You get a Jagged Horror that it’s more damage, more toughness and more vampiric.
This trait works when you manually sacrifice your Bone Minion making those two bombs a good source of damage every 16s (if you traited Minion Master).

Blood Magic
Ah! The core of this build.
Full of Life – It’s pretty explanatory. If only they would lower the threshold to 75% this trait would be awesome.
V – Vampiric Precision I did several test between this and II – Bloodthirst: while the second sound better because gives you more healing since you have at least 6 minions in real life you don’t have them all the time. I usually explode the Bone Minions or I have the Shadow Fiend dead due to it’s suicidal instinct or the Flesh Wurm has been placed in a wrong location… you name it. I prefer having this to be less dependent to Minions’ vampiric. It seems contradictory with this build but this trait saved my life several times when I had all the minions down due to an aoe. This trait works well with channelling skill, or, to be more precise, a lot better with Dagger #2 Life Siphon or Axe #2 Ghastly Claws.
Vampiric – Pretty self explanatory.
VII – Vampiric Master – It works with minions, it work with Minions’ skills. Watch my video at the end of this post.

2/4

Equipment:
As you may notice from my link on www.gw2skills.com I linked Exotic equipment and not Ascended. Who the hell test builds with Ascended equipment? Are you serious? It’s ONE month for just the armor!
Anyway: as I’ve seen in other builds I mix Berserker and Assassin, power is important but your main source of damage came from critical hits. When you reach 45%~50% you don’t really need more Ferocity without wasting precious statistics.

Main: Dagger/Warhorn
Secondary: Axe/Focus

The dagger auto-attack is your main source of damage and it’s fantastic. I don’t understand people that use the Axe as main weapon: it’s DPS is terrible. Terrible. Even Ghastly Claws dps is terrible. Simply don’t.
However ArenaNet hates us so we can’t stay in melee all the time and an Axe is required as secondary weapon. If you watch my video below I switch time to time to the Axe to recover some life and then I engage the combat again in melee. I like the sinergy with the focus so I use it. Focus #4 Reaper’s Touch is a good source of Vulnerability and Regen while Spinal Shiver is really helpful against some bosses to strip some nasty boons. Think about the Karka: how I love strip their Stability…

Oh! And always keep up Warhorn #5 Locust Swarm! It deals a lot of damage!

Sigils
I use Sigil of Air on the Dagger, Bloodlust on Warhorn, Sigil of Fire on the Axe and Frailty on the Focus.
The Air Sigil is still awesome and it’s a cheap alternative to the Sigil of Force, Bloodlust on Warhorn it’s pretty mandatory.
On the other hand I use the Axe only for AOE damage or some critical situation so I like Sigil of Fire and the sinergy with Frailty.

Runes
I don’t really know. I’m still testing. Any suggestion is really welcome.

Food
As above I’m still testing and I didn’t find any food that suits me.
The Omnomberry Pie or Omnomberry Ghost make a lot of sense in this build, but I haven’t tested them and they are pretty expensive.
Any suggestion is welcome here as well.

Youtube video

I recored this video to quickly show the amount of heal you receive with this build and still the decent damage you deal.
I mismatched a trait (I had no Vampiric Precision active, I forgot somehow) and I made many mistakes but it’s just to show the effectiveness of the build.
When I have time I’ll record a video soloing some champions.

I marked two salient moments: at 51s and at 2m06s.

3/4

Tips and Tricks:

• This builds lacks a lot in AOE damage and you may feel this lacking expecially against trash mobs. You can overcome a little with this rotation:
  Warhorn #5 Locust Swarm -> Switch to Axe -> Axe #3 Unholy Feast -> Focus #4 Reaper’s Touch -> Death Shroud -> DS #5 Tainted Shackles -> DS #4 Life Transfer -> optionally explode your Bone Minions.
  The Golem Charge, if placed corretly, can also be a great source of damage.

• Don’t kill all the trash, if they don’t deal much damage: you may want to save some for Spiteful Removal.

• You may want to sacrifice one of the utility for the Signet of the Locust, for example when running in a train in Queensdale or Frostgorge. If you do sacrifice the Shadow Fiend, not the Bone Minions. The Minions’ explosion is much better then the Fiend’s shadowstep, also if you have both of them they deals almost the same amount of damage of the Fiend and the skill have a lower cooldown.

• Use your Golem Charge wisely, it’s your best shot and stun.

• It’s also wise to use and master Warhorn #4 Wail of Doom: while on bosses it’s not great as the Golem’s charge it still really helpful against the other mobs since it hits in a cone, dazing up to 5 targets. You may also want to waste this skill to lower the boss’ Defiance stacks and then place an aimed Death Shroud #3 Doom.

• You may want to use Flesh Wurm instead of another minion (as stated above I would replace the Shadow Fiend ) because it’s higher damage. This minion is very useful for static boss (many world bosses) or bosses that you corner (with Doom or any other skill).

• The Flesh Wurm is also great for key positioning: escaping the AOE of the Giganticus Lupicus or the boss in the Thaumanova Reactor Fractal, etc.

Conclusion.
I talk too much, I know. Forgive me.
I repeat: this is a fun build for PVE, I don’t think it’s a definite guide for a Necromancer but I think it can help many people, expecially newcomer that find a pure Berserker build too much dangerous. I use this builds a lot because it works in almost any dungeons (tested even in Arah), it works in open world, with open world bosses and works well for farming. It require much practice to understand how to use minions and most of all how to unstuck it.

Thank you for reading. Any comment is appreciated. Even flames.

My final words to ArenaNet: how it’s possible the minions are still bugged after more then ONE YEAR? It’s NOT that you lack the capabilities: the enemy NPC never stuck like that, nor the Mesmer’s clone nor the Ranger’s pet. So why?

4/4

Nice article. Every now and then, a vampiric master build pops up in the forums. Some work, some don’t.

I will try it, and will let you know if it works for me. thx for sharing.

Good build. Standard MM. While you claim it does not work in PvP it actually does! Vampiric Master is simply one of the best if not the best sustain options for a Necromancer. I have actually used a build like this to roam around in WvW and it is decent at that as well. Watching all your minions beat up on a Thief is good stuff.

I tried the build in sPvP but it’s easily counterable and the sustain is not enough to keep you alive under fire.
For me this build it’s for fun. I hope ArenaNet will fix our minion AI someday.

I found it’s not bad at all in PvE because sustain vampiric is a good option expecially on bosses. I have to try in a pure tankish build.

Did you try soldier ammy in PvP or Clerics? It is not most effective with zerker ammy. Whether or not you found it effective it is pretty much the standard MM build people use in PvP. I prefer condi build but I have used both to some degree of success.

Thank you for your suggestion. Yes, I tried Soldier but I found not really effective but I think it’s because I’m away from sPvP since a lot.

For sPvP it have to change a lot.

Clerics MM in PvP is very strong, as long as you understand the limitations of your roaming.

So for just normal dungeon running this build is ok (as in play how you want). For more organized groups (banners, 25 might) you will start to feel the hurt since your minions do not scale off of your power. Also, you are missing some key damage mods, like say the 10% from spite, 2% per condition (or 5% in deathshroud if thats your thing). So while on the golems this would explain why you can kill faster, than say spoj’s build, once you factor in that extra 1k power, you will notice your damage will increase a tiny bit while spoj’s would go through the roof. Also, remmember to take into account aoe damage, minions will not last long against this, especially lupi phase 3.

Gyler brings up a good point. I personally use a minion build for PvE, but only when my group is not capable of stacking effectively. Otherwise Spoj’s build is absolutely great, and is massive damage (and survivability isn’t an issue if you’re in a decent group/using DS). Also, your build is lacking a lot of damage that you could get out of a minion build, so its not even the max damage a minion build could get.

A minion build will never out-DPS a full DPS build, mainly because minions don’t have the multipliers to really take advantage of a coordinated group. They just make things a lot easier in less-organized content.

Basically, I go into every dungeon with spoj’s build, and the first time my group obviously displays the lack of ability to stack properly, the minions come out.

Thank you for your comments.

However @Gyler and @Bhawb you are missing the point of this build.
I don’t use minions to deal damage, I use them for more thoughness and for vampiric.

I totally agree that AOE is a problem in this build however, in my opinion, any Necromancer build deals a lot less damage then a single Epidemic.

This build is aimed to situations in which you are the problem solver, when your group is badly organized, they ignore you and you have to save the whole party.

It’s cool to have the perfect group in which you have an Elementalist or a Guardian that keeps spamming heals, aegis and stability but 90% of the time this is not the case and Spoj’s build is not always an option.

The other 10% of the times is with your guild mate, and you can switch to any other build you prefer, you still have the kitten ed but required Berserker equipment.

I’m a fan of Honor of the Waves so I’ll take it as example. Think of the first path with the reworked troll: I was able to keep him busy with my minions sending them one by one and, of course with key positioning with the stairs. The other party members were all squishy and I had to tank him.
It was a victory.

You don’t need the amount of tankiness this build gives, even in a highly unorganized situation; I’ve solo’d bosses when a group went south (long enough to res all the other players) with a lot less investment. All you need is the 50% minion HP, and your minions have enough defense to tank a boss long enough to give your group breathing room.

Our point is: you never need this much defense, no matter how awful your group is.

I’m not a big fan of toughness in this game though, seeing as any hit will still take a big chunk of your HP no matter how much tough / vital you stack. Granted necros lack vigor or blocks, deathshroud becomes the big Oh dang button. With all that said, when in a bad group, you can play what you want basically.

I understand your point of view. However I don’t know how you deal with the fact that we have no vigor but I oftenly find myself in the situation that I get a facepalm from many mobs, boss, traps, whatever because I run out of endurance.

Also I think a good advantage of a Vampiric build is that you can get lesser hits without the need to go back to heal and stop doing damage.

It would be perfect if I could be able to avoid switching to the axe but this is quite impossible, sometimes you must do it.

I did test the vampiric build and it has great potential, except 25 stacks of might increases its damage by… 1.

The way i dealt with my necromancer was, i made him my bank mule until further fixes to the class make him not detrimental to the group (have other 80’s).

Gyler.8150:

I did test the vampiric build and it has great potential, except 25 stacks of might increases its damage by… 1.

I’m not sure to understand. If you mean minions don’t get might you are right. Though you still get it and most of the damage came from the Dagger, not from minion. Again I use their damage to mitigate the loss from a pure berserker build but i don’t rely on minion’s damage and it’s not the goal of this build to deal our maximum damage.

Gyler.8150:

The way i dealt with my necromancer was, i made him my bank mule until further fixes to the class make him not detrimental to the group (have other 80’s).

Is that your answer to our problem? “Do not play Necromancer”?
Sorry but this is not an answer.
I play for fun. And I found the other classes boring.

I prefer instead keep asking Arena Net for some changes and/or fixes.

By the way, what do you think, guys, if I send every day a bug report about the broken Minion AI? What about if we all do it? Do you think they will listen to us?

Last time an user sent a cake and it seems it worked. And it’s not a lie.

Actually, minions can and will get buffs from the party. This is sometimes totally fine (banners and the like), sometimes bad (shadow refuge to skip mobs) but they do get buffed.

Also its perfectly reasonable to play Necro. PvE isn’t really as much about profession, so long as you can bring DPS/utility and know the encounters, WvW necros are good and always have been okay, and in sPvP players like Zombify have shown time and again that just because Necros aren’t “viable” doesn’t mean you can’t kick butt (its just hard).

Arcades Saboth.5139:

I understand your point of view. However I don’t know how you deal with the fact that we have no vigor but I oftenly find myself in the situation that I get a facepalm from many mobs, boss, traps, whatever because I run out of endurance.

I’m not saying I never go down (although this is almost my first hardcore PvE binge since the few months after launch), but generally speaking it isn’t a big deal if I do, because when you are stacked its about a second for everyone to pick you up.

Don’t get me wrong, if this build is working for you, and you aren’t massively hurting your team by taking it (and I don’t think you are), then run it. I just think its a bit subpar.

It´s better to play offensive traits with defensive gear. The problem is, this build does not have support.
Spoj´s build can support the party (from a necromancers point of view^^) very well.

Stealing/converting more boons, more weakness/chill. Longer Vulnerability duration. Free Utilityskills (blind/condiremove/boonremove/weakness), or even protection/stun breakers and so on.

If my party is rly bad, and if im lazy. I would use a more heal support based build like x/x/x/2(x)/6, with a little bit defensive gear. My soldiers WvsW amor for example (and berserker trinkets).

I just got tired of waiting for Anet to do something worthwhile with the necro. Been playing for 1 and a half years now and all the changes have been pvp related. Keep on playing though if you enjoy it, after all that’s what the game is for no? :P

Bhawb.7408:

Don’t get me wrong, if this build is working for you, and you aren’t massively hurting your team by taking it (and I don’t think you are), then run it. I just think its a bit subpar.

I agree with that: it is subpar. As I said it’s just for fun.

Norjena.5172:

It´s better to play offensive traits with defensive gear.

Really? I always thought it was the contrary.
Since stats from traits are much less then stats form gear, correct me if I’m wrong, I guess it depend if you want to be more tankish or more damage dealer. In my build I want to be a damage dealer with a little tankinesh.

Norjena.5172:

Spoj´s build can support the party (from a necromancers point of view^^) very well.

Stealing/converting more boons, more weakness/chill. Longer Vulnerability duration. Free Utilityskills (blind/condiremove/boonremove/weakness), or even protection/stun breakers and so on.

I don’t agree with you:
The only adds in Spoj’s build, as I’ve read, it’s “Chill of Death”, as i said in my article you can get it in my build as well and double the effectivenes on Focus #5.
Yes, I miss weakness, nothing to do.

Blind is greatly useless on boss (it fade so fast you can’t see it) and much more less effective then a proper Wail of Doom on non-boss or even on a boss after you remove their stack (by keep using Wail of Doom and Doom).

There is no protection/break stun/whatever in a Spoj’s build and anyway in any Berserker build. If you are referring to a Soldier or Power build I think you are comparing two different builds that don’t fit each other.

Norjena.5172:

The problem is, this build does not have support.

No, it doesn’t at all. It’s not the focus of this build.

Actually my build is designed to be flexible. So you can take extra chill/weakness/blind/condi cleanse or a stunbreak if you need it.

Traits often have the biggest impact on damage. Simply because of the damage modifiers and also because all gear has atleast 1 offensive stat type. Theres nothing wrong with your build. You lack damage modifiers but minions will make up some of the loss.

Personally if I wanted a more supporty build with higher defence/sustain I would use something like this.

Nice build. I use a vampiric build myself and know it can be very useful. Especially beginners do not care about maximum dps and are glad to have a build, that grants more survivability.

We have had the same conversation in the german forum a few weeks ago. Sad to say, that very few people understood, what we were aiming at. No one wanted to offer a new max dps build or something else. Neither do vampiric builds grant a big amount of support to the party. The most often used phrase “The best support the necromancer can offer ist it´s damage.” was the reason, why I decided to change my build to a more defensive one. A dead necromancer deals absolutely no damage and is less helpful for the party, than a surviving necromancer which deals average damage, but I use much less minions than Arcades Saboth.

Actually I am using this build (link to external page):
http://de.gw2skills.net/editor/?fRMQNAoYWjk00SbPNO2wejCihSyT4CmOGqhWAqqMqAA-ThRAwAAM/5T9HmK/soE8l+ACeH8HkCQPhRA-e

Sorry for bad English. It is a while ago, since I used this language more often.

Thank you for your comment Melbarion. I stated several times that mine is a build for fun and I still think it’s fantastic for PvE farming/world boss and similar. I’m able to solo most of the champions.

I don’t understand something of your build:
First of all do you use mainly staff or daggers? Also instead of Quickening Thirst why not Ritual Mastery? Or anything else. It’s awesome and I believe the 25% of speed is helpful during fights because you can avoid some PBAOE by just running, however it’s very situational. If you use it for just walking then I would sacrifice one utility and get Signet of Locust, when you are about to engage a boss or a tough enemy you switch it back to Signet of Spite.

I planned a similar build to test but with Apothecary prefix, for Fractals.

I will try and answer your questions Arcades Saboth. Mainly I use daggers and staff is used only, when it is not possible to run quick enough to my enemies or when I have to deal with many trash mobs (AOE) in combination with Well of Suffering and Life Transfer (Death Shroud). Deathly Swarm is my first option to get rid of 3 conditions. Well of Power is for breaking stuns and removing conditions. With Signet of Spite I have an ability to send a lot of conditions to a boss or a tough enemy just before I switch to Death Shroud. The Charge of the Flesh Golem is quite useful to break some abilities of tough mobs and bosses. Additionally with Spite III I remove 3 conditions every time I kill an enemy.

Death Magic V and VII are set to give my staff a little boost and to improve my AOE performance (trash mobs).

I have chosen Quickening Thirst, because I did not like Signet of Locust and wanted an additional 25% of speed, which is active every time I switch to my daggers. You assumed right, that I wanted more speed during fights. This is, because I have to close up quickly when a target is moving out of the auto attack of my daggers or I have to hurry to the next enemy during the same fight. Of course it is possible, to use Ritual Mastery or another trait instead. It is just my personal preference.