Guild Wars 2

Hello Anet,

Let’s have a conversation with the Necro community.

Why doesn’t Parasitic Contagion work in Deathshroud?

Honest question, from a balance question. Why isn’t it allowed? Is it coding complications? Is it “OP”?

If it’s OP, why don’t you lower it to 7.5% and let it tick in DS?

Thank you.

Taquero mucho <3

cuz necro sustain must be kept to a minimum since they got no mobilities
and shroud is very such hard to counter

Stand The Wall.6987:

cuz necro sustain must be kept to a minimum since they got no mobilities
and shroud is very such hard to counter

Sounds like sarcasm but I´m not sure.^^

I was a lil intoxicated when I wrote my post… and this issue has already been discussed to death.

Maybe Sand Shroud will give us heals through DS :^)

Yeah anet has a very strange way to judge their game balance. For a necromancer, a sustain tool that is strong against 1v1 fights gets held down to not overpower the 1v1 scenario, even though it gets naturally balanced by teamfights already, thats the case of most traits and deathshorud in general.

Yet in the same turn, ele skills most likely affect 5 targets (friend or foe doenst matter) while not loosing any power, and even being strong in 1v1 scenarios.

Same for Warrior stances, if endure pain would be a necro skill for example, it would automaticly stop working once it prevented 100% of your max life as health. The list could go on and on here.

That kinda uninsightfull decisions will hold the overall balance down forever.

Working while in Shroud should be a no-brainer, as the class mechanic should never conflict with synergy among skills or traits. I also believe that it should return a percentage (1%) of condition damage dealt in life force. Even with this addition, a necro (especially core) would have to deal 13,300 condition damage a tick to equal the current base minimal of 1% (133) life force.

Making it work through shroud is not a good call. Would be difficult to balance and give anet a reason to lower our overall nuking ability/dps, since suddenly our dps would be tied to our sustain.

Currently if I put down ds5 and spin in it in wvw (assuming I used it at a good time), I would be healed up to full before I came out due to the number of people that are eating 5k+ bleed ticks. A full heal everytime ds5 and ds4 are up doesn’t really seem balanced to me. It is already a situationally strong trait especially in smaller group fights.

Necro is in a good place in WvW and SPvP, meta in both and overtuned (due to deathly chill) in WvW. Now is not the time to ask for buffs.

I think that’s the point of having parasitic contagion work in shroud. We have a good condi combo during shroud. It’s not like you’re invincible in it too. 3 people whacking you and shroud goes down fast. Tune down deathly chill in WvW to the same level as in sPvP. Problem solved.

MethaneGas.8357:

Why doesn’t Parasitic Contagion work in Deathshroud?

If it did it would easily outperform Blighter’s Boon which should not happen at all because a Condi Necro usually has more armor than a Power Necro due to the fact that he does not need 3 stats for damage.

The fact that you have to choose between Deathly Chill and Blighter’s Boon is based on the same logic.

Helly.2597:

Making it work through shroud is not a good call. Would be difficult to balance and give anet a reason to lower our overall nuking ability/dps, since suddenly our dps would be tied to our sustain.

Currently if I put down ds5 and spin in it in wvw (assuming I used it at a good time), I would be healed up to full before I came out due to the number of people that are eating 5k+ bleed ticks. A full heal everytime ds5 and ds4 are up doesn’t really seem balanced to me. It is already a situationally strong trait especially in smaller group fights.

Necro is in a good place in WvW and SPvP, meta in both and overtuned (due to deathly chill) in WvW. Now is not the time to ask for buffs.

A percentage of your condition damage heals you.
Percent: 10%
Percent: 3%-5% While in Shroud

Problem solved, and I’m not even on Anet’s team. Some synergy is still a lot better than no synergy at all. No other class in the game has to deal with conflicts of interests involving their class mechanic.

KrHome.1920:

If it did it would easily outperform Blighter’s Boon which should not happen at all because a Condi Necro usually has more armor than a Power Necro due to the fact that he does not need 3 stats for damage.

The fact that you have to choose between Deathly Chill and Blighter’s Boon is based on the same logic.

Vampiric Presence already out performs Blighter’s Boon in the most likely scenarios where every target you are cleaving is not below the 50% threshold and Vampiric Presence doesn’t even require the Spite line to do it. And the last time I fact-checked, power doesn’t need 3 stats for damage. It will not be the best damage without 3 stats, but then again, Condi without 3 stats will not be the best damage either.

Jayce.5632:

A percentage of your condition damage heals you.
Percent: 10%
Percent: 3%-5% While in Shroud

Problem solved, and I’m not even on Anet’s team. Some synergy is still a lot better than no synergy at all. No other class in the game has to deal with conflicts of interests involving their class mechanic.

Thank goodness you aren’t on Anet’s balance team. Even 3% is insanity when I regularly see 5k plus tics on 5+ targets in WvW. That means I would have at minimum 2.5k healing per SECOND while my hp can’t even be touched. And then once I’m out I have even crazier regen (now 5k) and boom I’m using spectral armor to get my shroud back. You create a monster out there, even moreso since necros already are currently a juggernaut on the battlefield (in WvW especially).

This mindset of “let’s buff everything until everything is perfect and a must have trait” is just silly. Curses has 3 grandmasters which all currently have tradeoffs. You’re trying to make a trait that is simply superior to everything else we have.

You mention conflicts in traits, but really what you want to say is tradeoffs and counterplay. IF you take this trait, you acknowledge that you can’t just camp shroud (not that you should anyways but most necros seem to love to do that) and regen at the same time. Just because this small amount of timing and presence of mind is beyond you doesn’t mean you should buff an already viable trait to OP levels.

Helly.2597:

Thank goodness you aren’t on Anet’s balance team. Even 3% is insanity when I regularly see 5k plus tics on 5+ targets in WvW. That means I would have at minimum 2.5k healing per SECOND while my hp can’t even be touched. And then once I’m out I have even crazier regen (now 5k) and boom I’m using spectral armor to get my shroud back. You create a monster out there, even moreso since necros already are currently a juggernaut on the battlefield (in WvW especially).

This mindset of “let’s buff everything until everything is perfect and a must have trait” is just silly. Curses has 3 grandmasters which all currently have tradeoffs. You’re trying to make a trait that is simply superior to everything else we have.

You mention conflicts in traits, but really what you want to say is tradeoffs and counterplay. IF you take this trait, you acknowledge that you can’t just camp shroud (not that you should anyways but most necros seem to love to do that) and regen at the same time. Just because this small amount of timing and presence of mind is beyond you doesn’t mean you should buff an already viable trait to OP levels.

First off, I think you’re missing the point, which was to show how balance could be achieved while creating synergy where there currently is none.

Secondly, I see you’re on Ferguson’s Crossing. And from the sound of it, I had no idea you guys were facing off against the A.I. there. For that, I must apologize as I was primarily looking at the trait from a sPvP perspective. But I do step foot into WvW from time to time, and against Maguuma or Blackgate, I see actual players. The only time I see 5k+ condi ticks against 5+ targets is when I solo an undefended supply camp.

Next, you’re absolutely correct. 2.5k in healing through Shroud would be insane. It’s a good thing that at 3%, you’d be looking at 750 in healing and not 10% returning 2.5k in healing. But since I’ve forgotten that the A.I. in WvW has feelings too, I can see an argument being made for 1% returning 250 healing against 5 targets.

Finally, I do not have any problem with tradeoffs and counterplay. I do however, have a problem with the Necro having a multiple number of skills and traits that have no synergy whatsoever with it’s class mechanic when every other class in the game (Disclaimer: As far as I can tell —>) do not have this problem.

Jayce.5632:

Secondly, I see you’re on Ferguson’s Crossing. And from the sound of it, I had no idea you guys were facing off against the A.I. there. For that, I must apologize as I was primarily looking at the trait from a sPvP perspective. But I do step foot into WvW from time to time, and against Maguuma or Blackgate, I see actual players. The only time I see 5k+ condi ticks against 5+ targets is when I solo an undefended supply camp.

You do realize I have fought against every server in this game and every single one gets bombed the hell out by our conditions currently right? Hell I fought Mag last week and just like the rest of the servers they got hit by the 5k bleed ticks. Blackgate has some of the worst roamers I have never witnessed, I would say that I have video of me killing them but sadly they stopped trying to fight me and my guild a long time ago. Mag at least tries to, but doesn’t do a lot better overall.

It wouldn’t be balanced in SPvP either. Stop asking for buffs and start looking at ways to shave classes and nerf things to bring the sustain and damage in line.

Honestly you aren’t worth my time here man. Have a good day.

Helly.2597:

Jayce.5632:

Secondly, I see you’re on Ferguson’s Crossing. And from the sound of it, I had no idea you guys were facing off against the A.I. there. For that, I must apologize as I was primarily looking at the trait from a sPvP perspective. But I do step foot into WvW from time to time, and against Maguuma or Blackgate, I see actual players. The only time I see 5k+ condi ticks against 5+ targets is when I solo an undefended supply camp.

You do realize I have fought against every server in this game and every single one gets bombed the hell out by our conditions currently right? Hell I fought Mag last week and just like the rest of the servers they got hit by the 5k bleed ticks. Blackgate has some of the worst roamers I have never witnessed, I would say that I have video of me killing them but sadly they stopped trying to fight me and my guild a long time ago. Mag at least tries to, but doesn’t do a lot better overall.

It wouldn’t be balanced in SPvP either. Stop asking for buffs and start looking at ways to shave classes and nerf things to bring the sustain and damage in line.

Honestly you aren’t worth my time here man. Have a good day.

Except that Condi necro in spvp has low damage and rarely if ever gets to even 4k ticks. You play a lot of wvw and I’d agree with you in that game mode since deathly chill is broken there. The change should only be in spvp since deathly chill is only 1 bleed per chill and necro sustain is hillariously underpowered .

Coolguy.8702:

Except that Condi necro in spvp has low damage and rarely if ever gets to even 4k ticks. You play a lot of wvw and I’d agree with you in that game mode since deathly chill is broken there. The change should only be in spvp since deathly chill is only 1 bleed per chill and necro sustain is hilariously underpowered .

My argument is that making necro good at sustain simply isn’t how balance should work. You wouldn’t have a tradeoff for taking the trait. You would still do as much damage as you did before just now you have a huge sustain increase in shroud. I would rather this trait not be touched, and overall class dps gets toned down instead of just buffing sustain for every class. Then our sustain would be buffed simply because dps would be down across the board.

I understand the necro sustain in sPvP is tied extremely hard to the quality of the team around you, but I disagree that buffs like this are healthy for the game and favor a dps shave across the board instead.

Helly.2597:

Coolguy.8702:

Except that Condi necro in spvp has low damage and rarely if ever gets to even 4k ticks. You play a lot of wvw and I’d agree with you in that game mode since deathly chill is broken there. The change should only be in spvp since deathly chill is only 1 bleed per chill and necro sustain is hilariously underpowered .

My argument is that making necro good at sustain simply isn’t how balance should work. You wouldn’t have a tradeoff for taking the trait. You would still do as much damage as you did before just now you have a huge sustain increase in shroud. I would rather this trait not be touched, and overall class dps gets toned down instead of just buffing sustain for every class. Then our sustain would be buffed simply because dps would be down across the board.

I understand the necro sustain in sPvP is tied extremely hard to the quality of the team around you, but I disagree that buffs like this are healthy for the game and favor a dps shave across the board instead.

Tbh aside from mender druid and Condi mes no nerfs are really needed since the game actually feels balanced (much better now than at hot launch). Playing spvp as a necro feels very broken since you get focused almost every teamfight and you rely on your teammates heavily since necros in pvp are basically used to boost teams dps (boon corrupts shut down bunker builds and cover condis make builds like burn guard and Condi rev really strong) you also said that the ops request would make necros even more of a juggernaut in wvw but necros always has and always will be due to the theme of the class.

@Helly, you’re missing the point here. When do you ever see another class being punished for using their class mechanic? Never. No other class is punished for using shatters, virtues or swapping attunements. Necro? Well… you use your class mechanic and you get no heals. Allowing Parasitic Contagion to work through shroud is not so much a buff, as it is something that should have been there from beginning. Sure, 15% is a lot if it works through shroud, but as others suggested, you can easily lower this number and all of the sudden you have a really good all-around trait. Or better yet, make it so you gain life-force while in normal form and gain heals while in shroud. Why not?

Sigh.. Anet. Hire me.

I’m of the opinion that Parasitic Contagion should just be reworked into something different entirely. I understand that having it work with Death Shroud can be pretty crazy if you couple it with unholy sanctuary and Blighter’s Boon, however the fact that it just refuses to work when you’re using Death Shroud is terrible from a design point of view. As far as I know nothing else like that happens with the other classes. It’d be like if a passive trait you chose flat out refused to function the moment you got into celestial form as a Druid. That’s not how you should design a class, you shouldn’t be punished for your using your mechanic.

Either Change it so you get a lower % lifesteal while in shroud or just completely change it into something different that can be used while you’re in and out of shroud.

VixusIrine.9013:

I’m of the opinion that Parasitic Contagion should just be reworked into something different entirely. I understand that having it work with Death Shroud can be pretty crazy if you couple it with unholy sanctuary and Blighter’s Boon, however the fact that it just refuses to work when you’re using Death Shroud is terrible from a design point of view.

Conditions do damage over time. If the trait would work in shroud you could go full trailblazer apply condis, go to shroud and run in circles to heal up again (think about the tons of soft CC a condi reaper can inflict!). I hope everyone can imagine how stupid this would be.

A redesign that works like Blighter’s Boon would look like:
-heal for 50hp for every condition you apply in shroud -> e.g. RS4 =12 poison = heal 600hp

If it should work outside of shroud the heal per condition should be much lower – like maybe 20hp per applied condition.

I would also like to see Blighter’s Boon work outside of shroud but lower the base healing to 100hp.

It seems the new elite spec… will make full use of Parasitic Contagion.