Guild Wars 2

As a condi necro with 2000+ hour, just wanna pay my final respect before you vanish in history… you will be missed.

I’ll get the shovels…

A dead necro, how coincidental.

They removed rat stacking, that was pure cheese no matter how you look at it. Another cheese – Epidemic bouncing – is still in place, and NORMAL damage remained unchanged.

The damage output of the viper horror build wasn’t even broken or anything. They could at least have buffed or reworked other skills to make up for the loss. Condi reaper dps is just really bad now.

Wintermute.5408:

They removed rat stacking, that was pure cheese no matter how you look at it. Another cheese – Epidemic bouncing – is still in place, and NORMAL damage remained unchanged.

Epi bouncing requires some co-ordination though. I’ve rarely seen t4 condi necro only pugs bounce epi, even when I called for it.
But yes, Lich #4 was total cheese. I’m just disappointed that they didn’t revamp the entire skill into something useful.

It may have been cheese but it made its dps only 10% LOWER than ele… now what?

Wintermute.5408:

They removed rat stacking, that was pure cheese no matter how you look at it. Another cheese – Epidemic bouncing – is still in place, and NORMAL damage remained unchanged.

How is epidemic bounce cheese? Please explain.

Time to put Necs back on the shelves for the most part again I guess, where they were for the most part of this game’s lifespan. Don’t see any reason to bring one anywhere besides on Matthias.

So I guess my ele will inherit my almost done viper set

The one to Rule.2593:

I’ll get the shovels…

No need, we’ve got GS and the ability to dig grave…

BloodyPanda.6789:

As a condi necro with 2000+ hour, just wanna pay my final respect before you vanish in history… you will be missed.

I keep reading these kinds of comments. How is condi necro dead? The nerfed rats on Lich form? That’s the thing that killed condi necros?

misterman.1530:

BloodyPanda.6789:

As a condi necro with 2000+ hour, just wanna pay my final respect before you vanish in history… you will be missed.

I keep reading these kinds of comments. How is condi necro dead? The nerfed rats on Lich form? That’s the thing that killed condi necros?

You could have a much longer uptime than 30s previously on the Horrors from Lich Form and Death Nova. Since this is no longer the case you’ll lose a good amount of bleed stacks after those 30s are up. I don’t think this will kick necromancer out of raids since they are still valuable in certain fights but it does hurt your dps a bit.

Can someone please explain why Condi necro is dead because I…. I don’t get it.

Dirame.8521:

Can someone please explain why Condi necro I dead because I…. I don’t get it.

I think its PvE-raid related but yea he should really change the misleading title

Dirame.8521:

Can someone please explain why Condi necro I dead because I…. I don’t get it.

Lich Form minions and the ones spawned from the Death Nova trait will last 30s max. This cuts out some bleed stacks after those 30s, whereas you could have them last longer if they either received some stray healing or regen.

Edit: It’s mostly PvE related, necromancers are still fine in WvW and PvP.

Waffle.3748:

Dirame.8521:

Can someone please explain why Condi necro I dead because I…. I don’t get it.

Lich Form minions and the ones spawned from the Death Nova trait will last 30s max. This cuts out some bleed stacks after those 30s, whereas you could have them last longer if they either received some stray healing or regen.

Edit: It’s mostly PvE related, necromancers are still fine in WvW and PvP.

Fine in pvp if you have a team dedicated to rez you once every 30 seconds or so otherwise not doing so good.

“Fine” for a profession with no mobility, escapes, or defenses to speak of in a game where everyone 100-0s you in a third of a second while also being invulnerable.

But, I mean. Anything’s powerful when you have a full-team dedicated to babysitting you, so I guess Anet’s balance isn’t that off.

Rigante.2470:

Waffle.3748:

Dirame.8521:

Can someone please explain why Condi necro I dead because I…. I don’t get it.

Lich Form minions and the ones spawned from the Death Nova trait will last 30s max. This cuts out some bleed stacks after those 30s, whereas you could have them last longer if they either received some stray healing or regen.

Edit: It’s mostly PvE related, necromancers are still fine in WvW and PvP.

Fine in pvp if you have a team dedicated to rez you once every 30 seconds or so otherwise not doing so good.

Necro has always been the subject of focus and in need of peel. This patch changes nothing in that regard and yet they still will see use in most meta comps.

You were viable, that is unforgivable.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Wintermute.5408:

They removed rat stacking, that was pure cheese no matter how you look at it. Another cheese – Epidemic bouncing – is still in place, and NORMAL damage remained unchanged.

How is epidemic bounce cheese? Please explain.

Time to put Necs back on the shelves for the most part again I guess, where they were for the most part of this game’s lifespan. Don’t see any reason to bring one anywhere besides on Matthias.

Step 1: get 2 condi necros and maybe some other condi builds, the more the merrier.
Step 1: cast epidemic on main target when there’s an add nearby.
Step 3: cast second epidemic on that add, to instantly double amount of conditions on main target.
Step 4: cheese served.

Wintermute.5408:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Wintermute.5408:

They removed rat stacking, that was pure cheese no matter how you look at it. Another cheese – Epidemic bouncing – is still in place, and NORMAL damage remained unchanged.

How is epidemic bounce cheese? Please explain.

Time to put Necs back on the shelves for the most part again I guess, where they were for the most part of this game’s lifespan. Don’t see any reason to bring one anywhere besides on Matthias.

Step 1: get 2 condi necros and maybe some other condi builds, the more the merrier.
Step 1: cast epidemic on main target when there’s an add nearby.
Step 3: cast second epidemic on that add, to instantly double amount of conditions on main target.
Step 4: cheese served.

Again, how is dedicating multiple party/squad-slots to something that does not work in every encounter and actually requires coordination cheese?
Keep in mind, you copy a maximum of 25 of each condition with each epidemic, something you are clearly not aware of.

I think the problem is the effectiveness/effort ratio, not so much as whether or not you have to actually dedicate people to it.

If it’s well and truly -that- powerful, I doubt occupying a slot to ensure it happens will bother anyone.

Reap in pieces necbros. It was fun while it lasted.

b-bu-but guys! … Greatsword got buffs! .. Power necro is totally viable in raids now! … right..?

KITTEN. ANET- can u plz buff one spec without destroying another plz. Lich form was apex of condi build for single target. Now its pretty much toast with no condi replacement!!!!

I keep seeing people complain about this nerf, but I’m curious, does anyone remember how “Rise!” functioned initially in beta before they changed it to what it is now? If I remember correctly, it used to spawn jagged horrors, and guess what happened. The devs noticed that people had ridiculous uptime with all the spawned jagged horrors and group healing. As a result, Rise! got changed to what it is now; damage reduction minions on a timer.

This change to Mark of Horror is totally in line with the change to Rise!. If anything, people should still be complaining about the change to Rise! but I suppose we all have short memories. Even I forgot until this patch reminded me.

nightwulf.1986:

I keep seeing people complain about this nerf, but I’m curious, does anyone remember how “Rise!” functioned initially in beta before they changed it to what it is now? If I remember correctly, it used to spawn jagged horrors, and guess what happened. The devs noticed that people had ridiculous uptime with all the spawned jagged horrors and group healing. As a result, Rise! got changed to what it is now; damage reduction minions on a timer.

This change to Mark of Horror is totally in line with the change to Rise!. If anything, people should still be complaining about the change to Rise! but I suppose we all have short memories. Even I forgot until this patch reminded me.

I’m pretty sure they changed it due to people complaining that “Rise” was crap. This was before Viper Horror became a thing of course.
But on another note, I’d be happy if they just changed the Shambling Horrors into Jagged Horrors again but kept the 25s timer. I only ever bring Rise for the condi transfer and poison field on death, to be honest. I’d happily live without the damage reduction.

nightwulf.1986:

I keep seeing people complain about this nerf, but I’m curious, does anyone remember how “Rise!” functioned initially in beta before they changed it to what it is now? If I remember correctly, it used to spawn jagged horrors, and guess what happened. The devs noticed that people had ridiculous uptime with all the spawned jagged horrors and group healing. As a result, Rise! got changed to what it is now; damage reduction minions on a timer.

This change to Mark of Horror is totally in line with the change to Rise!. If anything, people should still be complaining about the change to Rise! but I suppose we all have short memories. Even I forgot until this patch reminded me.

I don’t think anyone is complaining about the fact we lost our minion uptime here. It just looks like this because it was the nerf we received and we didn’t get anything to keep our DPS on a similar level to before, so the first thing most people do is complain about the jagged horror nerf because that’s what they see and what’s causing the issues.

Lich form is now slightly worse than the Syvari racial Take Root, as it’s cooldown is 150s vs 180s. /facepalm

Lahmia.2193:

nightwulf.1986:

I keep seeing people complain about this nerf, but I’m curious, does anyone remember how “Rise!” functioned initially in beta before they changed it to what it is now? If I remember correctly, it used to spawn jagged horrors, and guess what happened. The devs noticed that people had ridiculous uptime with all the spawned jagged horrors and group healing. As a result, Rise! got changed to what it is now; damage reduction minions on a timer.

This change to Mark of Horror is totally in line with the change to Rise!. If anything, people should still be complaining about the change to Rise! but I suppose we all have short memories. Even I forgot until this patch reminded me.

I’m pretty sure they changed it due to people complaining that “Rise” was crap. This was before Viper Horror became a thing of course.
But on another note, I’d be happy if they just changed the Shambling Horrors into Jagged Horrors again but kept the 25s timer. I only ever bring Rise for the condi transfer and poison field on death, to be honest. I’d happily live without the damage reduction.

Oh, they definitely noticed the jagged horror uptime. Do you remember how many videos came out to test how many minions you could keep up with healing? There were several. If I’m not completely wrong, they did explicitly comment on changing the skill so that it doesn’t blow out the number of minions for technical/performance reasons.

I do also remember the initial outcry about getting jagged horrors, and the complaints were largely based on the understood potential pre-HOT. I’m just saying there is historical context for this. The MoH nerf is not out of the blue.

Wasn’t condi necro always horrible? I mean, i’m not into raids but in any other situation you get more damage with condi engi or even condi ele (talking before this patch, so now even more). In terms of stacking bleedings i get even more damage from my condi ele in earth att. and that’s with smoldering sigil and balthazar runes…

I’m not mocking condi necros, i’m wondering if i’m doing something wrong since i’d love to play condi with my necro, but the damage was at pair with my pure condi mesmer (or even worst depending on the situation).

Ghataka.1604:

Wasn’t condi necro always horrible? I mean, i’m not into raids but in any other situation you get more damage with condi engi or even condi ele (talking before this patch, so now even more). In terms of stacking bleedings i get even more damage from my condi ele in earth att. and that’s with smoldering sigil and balthazar runes…

I’m not mocking condi necros, i’m wondering if i’m doing something wrong since i’d love to play condi with my necro, but the damage was at pair with my pure condi mesmer (or even worst depending on the situation).

Condi necro had the advantages of being able to stack minions (which is now gone) and epidemic. Getting more dps out of simply spamming earth auto seems pretty bad, though. Have you been using vipers on each class? The damage never really excelled however as long as you didn’t have plenty of things dying around you over a long enough time while keeping minions alive too and/or had plenty of condis to gather from other sources and throw them back frequently on top. Basically it was alright dps with the benefit of epidemic shenanigans with the possibility to go even higher if the situation allowed for it.

Which is exactly why people are so kittened about the nerf of jagged horrors while not being compensated for it.

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ghataka.1604:

Wasn’t condi necro always horrible? I mean, i’m not into raids but in any other situation you get more damage with condi engi or even condi ele (talking before this patch, so now even more). In terms of stacking bleedings i get even more damage from my condi ele in earth att. and that’s with smoldering sigil and balthazar runes…

I’m not mocking condi necros, i’m wondering if i’m doing something wrong since i’d love to play condi with my necro, but the damage was at pair with my pure condi mesmer (or even worst depending on the situation).

Condi necro had the advantages of being able to stack minions (which is now gone) and epidemic. Getting more dps out of simply spamming earth auto seems pretty bad, though. Have you been using vipers on each class? The damage never really excelled however as long as you didn’t have plenty of things dying around you over a long enough time while keeping minions alive too and/or had plenty of condis to gather from other sources and throw them back frequently on top. Basically it was alright dps with the benefit of epidemic shenanigans with the possibility to go even higher if the situation allowed for it.

Which is exactly why people are so kittened about the nerf of jagged horrors while not being compensated for it.

Yes, i’ve used viper, rabid and dire (separately). Since i only use the ele for farming i found dire was faster since facerolling>>viper. Dagger 5, signet of earth and autoattack + evasive arcana gets you 20+ stacks of bleeding in 5 seconds, but i rarely use bleeding since the mob in open world dies from the burns in one rotation and the cooldowns are pretty short with scepter/dagger.

So the condi necro main role in raids is killing the trash mobs with epidemic i assume? I knew about the stacking of minions, but i thought i was missing some mechanic or trait synergy. I’m fairly new to necro and i had the expectations a little too high since i always saw it as the main condi damage class (for the poison/blood theme and all the viper fuzz). I supose it needs a party for the good tics, so i’ll keep the zerker gear for now.

Ghataka.1604:

NovaanVerdiano.6174:

Ghataka.1604:

Wasn’t condi necro always horrible? I mean, i’m not into raids but in any other situation you get more damage with condi engi or even condi ele (talking before this patch, so now even more). In terms of stacking bleedings i get even more damage from my condi ele in earth att. and that’s with smoldering sigil and balthazar runes…

I’m not mocking condi necros, i’m wondering if i’m doing something wrong since i’d love to play condi with my necro, but the damage was at pair with my pure condi mesmer (or even worst depending on the situation).

Condi necro had the advantages of being able to stack minions (which is now gone) and epidemic. Getting more dps out of simply spamming earth auto seems pretty bad, though. Have you been using vipers on each class? The damage never really excelled however as long as you didn’t have plenty of things dying around you over a long enough time while keeping minions alive too and/or had plenty of condis to gather from other sources and throw them back frequently on top. Basically it was alright dps with the benefit of epidemic shenanigans with the possibility to go even higher if the situation allowed for it.

Which is exactly why people are so kittened about the nerf of jagged horrors while not being compensated for it.

Yes, i’ve used viper, rabid and dire (separately). Since i only use the ele for farming i found dire was faster since facerolling>>viper. Dagger 5, signet of earth and autoattack + evasive arcana gets you 20+ stacks of bleeding in 5 seconds, but i rarely use bleeding since the mob in open world dies from the burns in one rotation and the cooldowns are pretty short with scepter/dagger.

So the condi necro main role in raids is killing the trash mobs with epidemic i assume? I knew about the stacking of minions, but i thought i was missing some mechanic or trait synergy. I’m fairly new to necro and i had the expectations a little too high since i always saw it as the main condi damage class (for the poison/blood theme and all the viper fuzz). I supose it needs a party for the good tics, so i’ll keep the zerker gear for now.

There’s a difference between what you can get as high and what you average on dps wise.
Necro never had good (condi) dps, the minions stayed alive for long (and thus providing more damage) due to heals from other sources, so it was basically all about a longer rampup that was worth it in the end. What people like to do is getting 2+ reapers and then using epidemic on the mob with the second reaper using epidemic on the trash in order to copy some of the conditions back onto the boss again. Reaper in raids can also help with conditions that are being thrown around by bosses, if there are any that could cause problems and/or worth taking advantage of for personal dps. They also have the advantage of being rather “easy” dps and being able to do almost everything from range, should it be required (Green circles at Vale Guardian where four people have to stand inside in order to negate damage, for example).
You might also have taken some not-as-good choices too of course, but I can’t know.

If you are mostly someone who enjoys running around in open world, doing small events and whatnot I’d suggest power necro instead like you plan on sticking to, works much better there. At this point there’s not even much difference between both builds dps wise, but power doesn’t have to deal with rampup (well, except you consider getting a decent damage boost on mobs below 50% a rampup)

Also having boons and everything helps of course, but that applies to every class.

Even if it would be brought from the dead it would still only be a minion…

My 3 necro’s will come and be buried alongside your’s

Sasori.8642:

Reap in pieces necbros. It was fun while it lasted.

That seems to be the kitten theme in this stupid game concerning necs.

Crimson Shi.5047:

Sasori.8642:

Reap in pieces necbros. It was fun while it lasted.

That seems to be the kitten theme in this stupid game concerning necs.

I have to agree. It’s quite impressive that they managed to say that necros were in a good place and they liked where we are, and then proceeded to nerf the only viable spec completely into the ground. I’m hearing in-game now that flesh golem is actually better than lich form because of the uptime. Jaggies would have to last at least around 60 seconds or else lich form would have to have a much lower cooldown (90 seconds tops I would guess) to bring back viability.

Well, at least we’re still the coolest looking class.

Well new dps numbers are out for raids… necros have fallen to 20k… behind every class except mesmer, even lower than PS warrior.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well new dps numbers are out for raids… necros have fallen to 20k… behind every class except mesmer, even lower than PS warrior.

Don’t worry because “We feel that necromancers have been faring quite well gamewide, providing play and counterplay in many spots over the last few months.” And, as we all know, facts don’t matter, but how people FEEL matters. And they FEEL that necros are fine.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Well new dps numbers are out for raids… necros have fallen to 20k… behind every class except mesmer, even lower than PS warrior.

You got a link to the new dps benchmark? Wasn’t able to find it.
20k for condi nec dps sounds about right though, considering the only change was the jagged horror nerf and we were hovering around 21k before. Sad times.