Guild Wars 2

Just a reminder that Poison will stack with each pulse.

Oh yeah, we still have our 20s permablind on skill#2.

Plague will become a VERY powerful elite.

Yes, it will nuke us for 10k + whatever the trait applies if you spec condi, so good luck trying to not die from it.

Kain Francois.4328:

Just a reminder that Poison will stack with each pulse.

Oh yeah, we still have our 20s permablind on skill#2.

Plague will become a VERY powerful elite.

That nukes the user for ~12k damage easy.

Yeah…no. You don’t use Plague for the damage now, and you won’t after the patch. Pos-patch, Plague will be useless.

Plague will be used cos the other elites somehow manage the impossible and are worse

Flesh Golem will always be marginally useful as a 10% LF gain when it inevitably dies and Charge is still useful, Lich will be usable on power builds. Plague is the only one that literally kills you for using it.

Bhawb.7408:

Flesh Golem will always be marginally useful as a 10% LF gain when it inevitably dies and Charge is still useful, Lich will be usable on power builds. Plague is the only one that literally kills you for using it.

Which is quite funny seen as plague form is our tanky option. It would be like putting 3 stacks of burning and poison on a warrior when he uses endure pain.

Or putting 10 stacks on vuln on someone when they heal and therefore are likely the current focussed player. O wait…

#ANetLogic

I’m not happy at all that they messed with plague. It has been my go to elite for a very long time, very useful in WvW group/zerg gameplay. The skill is not overpowering by any means, so messing with it really butchers it.

I often roll plague and have very little health coming out of plague after being in lots of heat. I really don’t want to imagine coming out of plague with stacks of bleed ready to kill me. Only to have to use consume conditions to heal myself back up and get rid of the bleed…then to get tagged with yet another 4 secs of vulnerability. Oh joy!

kitten devs play the frigging game and know how these skills are used in real time situations. The proposed changes to plague + CC really put the hurt on necros.

Bhawb.7408:

#ANetLogic

Dont forget they still have to allocate torment to a skill. I predict that will be on plague form (from the trait). I predict blind on consume conditions. On CPC it will be weakness alongside perhaps confusion. Maybe chilled and poison on corrupt boon.

Honestly that trait is terrible. A 33% reduction is really not enough to justify such incredible self damage.

Necro has enough trouble dealing with damage in this game as our healing is already terrible. Now not only is our healing getting way worse. But we now kill ourselves more than ever,

I have the solution.

Plague Skill 4: Sending Plague
Cooldown: 5 seconds
Cast time: 0

Add a condition transfer to your Plague. (1 condition transferred per enemy hit),

Balekai.6083:

I have the solution.

Plague Skill 4: Sending Plague
Cooldown: 5 seconds
Cast time: 0

Add a condition transfer to your Plague. (1 condition transferred per enemy hit),

It fixes nothing. Plague pulses short duration bleeds every second. You’d transfer 2 stacks of 3s bleeding and that would be it.

If bleeding was applies every 3 or 5 seconds, but in couple stacks and with longer durations, Then we could indeed think about transfers.

Rym.1469:

Balekai.6083:

I have the solution.

Plague Skill 4: Sending Plague
Cooldown: 5 seconds
Cast time: 0

Add a condition transfer to your Plague. (1 condition transferred per enemy hit),

It fixes nothing. Plague pulses short duration bleeds every second. You’d transfer 2 stacks of 3s bleeding and that would be it.

If bleeding was applies every 3 or 5 seconds, but in couple stacks and with longer durations, Then we could indeed think about transfers.

I have a solution.

Up the self bleeding stacks to 10 seconds.

Balekai.6083:

Rym.1469:

Balekai.6083:

I have the solution.

Plague Skill 4: Sending Plague
Cooldown: 5 seconds
Cast time: 0

Add a condition transfer to your Plague. (1 condition transferred per enemy hit),

It fixes nothing. Plague pulses short duration bleeds every second. You’d transfer 2 stacks of 3s bleeding and that would be it.

If bleeding was applies every 3 or 5 seconds, but in couple stacks and with longer durations, Then we could indeed think about transfers.

I have a solution.

Up the self bleeding stacks to 10 seconds.

Now tell that Arena Net.

The plague change is definitely the one that I’m most unhappy with. Everything else I like or can see the point, but the plague change makes me shake my head,

Roe.3679:

The plague change is definitely the one that I’m most unhappy with. Everything else I like or can see the point, but the plague change makes me shake my head,

I’m still wondering how it got through myself.

sry but Golem and Lich wont kill me upon use… so they arent worse then plague. if Elites stand as they are atm come Expansion I will go Shout Elite hands down… even when Solo Roaming.

I think plague will be fine. To make up for the nerf to the base skill, they should add at least a 4 skill, maybe a 5 skill. These could apply unique conditions, or siphon health from foes.

zapv.8051:

I think plague will be fine. To make up for the nerf to the base skill, they should add at least a 4 skill, maybe a 5 skill. These could apply unique conditions, or siphon health from foes.

That would be nice, but they aren’t doing this, and spending 50% of your hp to absorb damage is counterproductive to the main use of this skill.

Especially for an elite skill.

After the patch, I would take even the racial elites like Reaper of Grenth over Plague. It’s going to suck that bad.

In fact, after the patch I may be looking at racial heals as well. ::snort::

Our super tank skill helps other people kill ourselves.

Ayyy lmao

Bhawb.7408:

#ANetLogic

When I was saying such things months and months ago… eeehhh
As said by most on this forum I was a “blind hater”.

Btw is Chilling Darkness + Plague + Deathly Chill a thing?

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQC7AW8Bqg~

Also there’s a variant in Death Magic with Putrid Defensor and Corrupter’s Fervor..

It’s okay, refer to Bhawb’s signature.
I am very close to shelving this necromancer post-HOT and picking up a class that does what the box says it does.
The other half of me however, refuses to let whatever they do to the class limit me in any way shape or form. I will make my Reaper a god to be feared.

Luke.4562:

Bhawb.7408:

#ANetLogic

When I was saying such things months and months ago… eeehhh
As said by most on this forum I was a “blind hater”.

Btw is Chilling Darkness + Plague + Deathly Chill a thing?

http://dulfy.net/gw2traits#build=AgQC7AW8Bqg~

Also there’s a variant in Death Magic with Putrid Defensor and Corrupter’s Fervor..

It CAN be a thing, but since they’ve nerfed plague so hard, you might be better off using reaper of grenth and doing more substantial damage at the same time.

If you’re Condi with Curses and Death Magic, logical follow-up is Soul Reaping.

Which, most likely, locks us into Shrouded Removal. And that, sadly, excludes Putrid Defense, as cool it would be.

Plague should get a complete overhaul and become a well.

Plague: 1/4s Activation Time, 180s CD, 1200 Range – 240 Radius ground target AoE.
Become a plague and descend upon the target location. Upon landing you fear up to 5 nearby enemies for 1 second and create a 240 radius Plague Well, which deals damage, immobilizes foes for 1s, and extends the duration of all conditions on them by 2 seconds every tick.

I’d imagine there to be a half-second animation attached to the end of the shadowstep that would be your character, wrapped in corruption, descending from the air and pulsing the initial fear/first well tick when you hit the ground.

I’m thinking the direct damage should be a power ratio of 1.0 per tick on the well and another 1.0 attached to the fear-on-arrival pulse. You’d land, fear people, the first tick of the well would immediately immobilize them, and bump the duration of both those to 3s. Essentially if they fail to dodge the initial pulse they’ll need to have a port, condition wipe, or stunbreak and cleanse available, or they’re looking at up to 10s of disable plus whatever condis you can stack on them while they’re stuck. Works great as a setup for other wells or to drop yourself into a big teamfight, but is properly countered by good awareness and not OP in 1v1s, as it’ll be easy to dodge away if they see you coming in.

I’m not gonna lie it draws heavy inspiration from fiddlesticks from LoL, but I think his ult was great design and felt really impactful for both teams. Necro needs something a bit OP right now.

The only explanation I can come up with is I think they’re trying to make this a thing again.

If you want, you can take master of corruption and kill yourself even faster…

I don’t know why the added a sacrifice to plague when it already had a sacrifice (makes you sacrifice minions and spectrals.

I wonder why they decided that blind should be a contender for an additional self-applied condition when taking Master of Corruption. Didn’t they say so themselves that corruption is meant to be inflicting conditions on yourself to transfer to your enemy? How do I land my transfer skills when I have blindness hmmmm.

apoidea.7095:

I wonder why they decided that blind should be a contender for an additional self-applied condition when taking Master of Corruption. Didn’t they say so themselves that corruption is meant to be inflicting conditions on yourself to transfer to your enemy? How do I land my transfer skills when I have blindness hmmmm.

transfer skills hit even when blinded.

Tim.6450:

apoidea.7095:

I wonder why they decided that blind should be a contender for an additional self-applied condition when taking Master of Corruption. Didn’t they say so themselves that corruption is meant to be inflicting conditions on yourself to transfer to your enemy? How do I land my transfer skills when I have blindness hmmmm.

transfer skills hit even when blinded.

Only if the blind is transferred though, IIRC. If the blind is not transferred, the skill will miss (although the blind will still disappear since you will have missed the attack).

With the changes to randomized condition removal, it may mean that certain transfer abilities will miss more frequently.

Currently plague signet will never miss because it transfers all conditions, but it will only do five after the update, meaning it could start missing if it doesn’t transfer the blind as well.

This makes me think the anet devs are trolling with the CC nerf and the plague nerf. F both of these skills. Funny thing is, all our heals suck even with the vulnerability, but I refuse to use something as stupid as master of corruptions. Does nothing but lower (barely) some cool downs on weak skills to take more damage? Lol

It has a double synergy with poison defense and corrupter’s fervor, but now you’re talking about taking two traits to keep an elite skill from hurting yourself.

I wonder if the self bleed will trigger stacks of Corrupter’s Fervor. I assume that it will since you can be healed from Parasitic Contagion on self applied conditions. That would mean even if you aren’t hitting anything, your still reducing incoming damage with every pulse.

Maybe a small consolation to the damage, but hey, anything that takes off the edge, right?

Also, where are you getting 10k damage? The Specialization change list says it’s one 2s stack of bleed every second for 20 seconds, that means two stacks of bleeding for 19s, plus 1 second of 1 stack and the the begining and the end. That should be equivalent to 40 second of one stack of bleeding, which based of the new bleed formula, would only be half of that, and only at around 1400 Condition damage (2 + (0.3*80) + (0.075*1400) = 131 damage per stack per tick, *40 = 5240 damage total) which IIRC would be around the gear cap for PvP, if non-Celest trinkets are still getting a 30% boost, with Condi Damage Runes. (Remember, Condition damage is a secondary attribute, which means the base value is 0)

Or are you stacking all the most likely Condi Duration effects? Barbed Precision + Nightmare runes would bring it up to about 7k. Closer, but not quite 10k. Not saying your wrong, just wondering how you got to that number, because I’m getting something very different.

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

“Plague: This skill is now considered a corruption skill and applies 1 stack of bleeding for 2 seconds to you every second it is active.”

NeHoMaR.9812:

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

People have calculated it, it is effectively 40 ticks of bleeds, and that is with no added bleed duration, and they will tick for at least 180 per second in a condi build. A very conservative estimate puts it at dealing 7200 damage to yourself in a condi build, but you could easily go over 10k self damage, just to use your elite. This also doesn’t include whatever the MoC condition does.

UGH…

I use plague in wvw for its tankiness while blinding plebians trying to kill the commander. Farewell to that.
.

I’m terribly unhappy with the nerfs that get stacked on the necromancer. Devs justify nerfs bcoz we have a second hp bar.
.

Makes no sense because vitality isnt very useful in pvp. Warriors had that problem and they fixed it rather quickly. Eles and guards have the lowest base hp and yet do exceptionally well.
.

I’m more than happy to give up LF if they invest more time rebuilding the class entirely.
.

Necros are treated like the unwanted, overweight step child with no charm and talent.
.

Sucks for me as it happens to be one of my top 2 favorite classes.

Bhawb.7408:

NeHoMaR.9812:

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

People have calculated it, it is effectively 40 ticks of bleeds, and that is with no added bleed duration, and they will tick for at least 180 per second in a condi build. A very conservative estimate puts it at dealing 7200 damage to yourself in a condi build, but you could easily go over 10k self damage, just to use your elite. This also doesn’t include whatever the MoC condition does.

That would take just over 2k Condition damage. The most you can get right now, in PvE with full accended and full curses with full condi damage runes is about 1550, not only is sPvP trinkets is based on exo stats (putting the current value at 1407) Every reasonable estimate I have seen has said that the cap for what you can obtain with stats via gear and traits will go down if it moves at all.

So, where is this extra 600 condi damage coming from? I’d kinda like to know, cause 2k Condition damage sounds like an amazing thing to have.

With full corruption stacks and full ascended I get easily over 2150 condi dmg pre might. Including food and toxic crystal.

Gryph.8237:

With full corruption stacks and full ascended I get easily over 2150 condi dmg pre might. Including food and toxic crystal.

Thank you for that answer.

My mind was on spvp, and Consumables aren’t allowed in there, nor is Sigil of Corruption something people actually use.

Foefaller.1082:

Thank you for that answer.

My mind was on spvp, and Consumables aren’t allowed in there, nor is Sigil of Corruption something people actually use.

13% precision to condition damage from Curses plus the inflated stats from gear, and some other stuff. This is PvE though, it will be slightly lower in PvP, and even lower if you aren’t using Rabid, which gives you the precision conversion. Even if it is “only” 5k damage, that is still an elite dealing significant damage to you.

Bhawb.7408:

NeHoMaR.9812:

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

People have calculated it, it is effectively 40 ticks of bleeds, and that is with no added bleed duration, and they will tick for at least 180 per second in a condi build. A very conservative estimate puts it at dealing 7200 damage to yourself in a condi build, but you could easily go over 10k self damage, just to use your elite. This also doesn’t include whatever the MoC condition does.

I use Plague as an emergency button, to escape in WvW, and normally cancel it in a few seconds, the main benefits I like more is the increased toughness/vitality and stability, that part was not nerfed. I don’t see the bleeding nerf as big as others see it, of course I don’t like it. Also, I use a Power build, so how much bleeding damage I could get? I think I am not going to notice it.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Bhawb.7408:

NeHoMaR.9812:

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

People have calculated it, it is effectively 40 ticks of bleeds, and that is with no added bleed duration, and they will tick for at least 180 per second in a condi build. A very conservative estimate puts it at dealing 7200 damage to yourself in a condi build, but you could easily go over 10k self damage, just to use your elite. This also doesn’t include whatever the MoC condition does.

I use Plague as an emergency button, to escape in WvW, and normally cancel it in a few seconds, the main benefits I like more is the increased toughness/vitality and stability, that part was not nerfed. I don’t see the bleeding nerf as big as others see it, of course I don’t like it. Also, I use a Power build, so how much bleeding damage I could get? I think I am not going to notice it.

Given that plague gives you no means to handle movement impairing conditions and can’t deal with ranged kiting at all, it makes a pretty kitten poor escape unless you’re within hobbling distance of a tower/keep.

It’s intended strength is bunkering in PvP, where it can cover a point with blinds, give you enough stab not to get knocked off the point, and makes you nigh unkillable to power builds. It’s strongest counter was conditions, as you didn’t get nearly as much vitality as you did toughness, weakness doesn’t do much to condi builds, and you couldn’t actively cleanse them at all while inside. With the meta changing towards massive amounts of condi damage, people are rightfully bothered by the fact that you’re just spiking yourself with even more condis on top of what people will be throwing at you. It’s going to be pretty kitten useless for actually defending yourself against anything once the patch hits, and is most absolutely a nerf to any case in which you want to use it for defense.

Also to the OP: the poison is going to be 2s every tick, thats only 2 stacks which is less dps than it was before. the skill is getting worse in every way.

Plague was already better than lich because no competent enemy would let you freecast it.

If you add to that reasoning the 3stability vs 1 on lich which makes it easy to to remove even without boon removals, the damage nerf and now the duration nerf it’s pretty obvious what’s the best elite.

In any case, some other interesting tidbits I’ve found out number crunching various ideas to mitigate the self bleed.

(All calculations assume you’re using Plague of Darkness/Pestilence, and not Withering Plague (which applies 2 stacks of 2 second bleed per pulse)

1. More general than Plague related, but at about 600 damage, Bleed stacks start doing more damage than Poison stacks. Something to keep in mind when picking and weighing and condition skills/traits.

2. At 1400 Condition damage, Hitting 5 targets with Plague with the Parasitic Contagion trait will heal you for 143.7 Health per second (Remember that Plague will now do 2sec poison per pulse instead of 1sec, and the bleed you self apply will still heal you via PC) which will be just over half of the damage you are actually taking. Note that since Poison increases more slowly than Bleed, the actual % that’s returned will drop as your Condition damage goes up.

3. Vamprism and Vampiric Presence: Right now, Vampirism with Bloodthirst (which is what the new Vamprism will be) heals for about 40 health per siphon, and IIRC the livestream said VP would trigger for about 30. Since Plague does have a damage tick, it would trigger both, giving you ~200 health for 5 targets with Vampirism, 150 health for VP, and 350 Health for both. This would completely cover the damage done by the self bleeds for up to about 1980 Condition damage, after that you’ll start taking more damage from bleeds than heals from the siphon (though at 2150, that’s only about 14-15 damage per tick)

3. If you combine all three, You can offset the bleeds with 3 targets with at both 1400, but takes 4 targets at 2150.

4. Finally, Corrupter’s Fervor. CF reducing incoming Condition damage by 2% for every stack, maxing at 10 stacks with each stack lasting 8 seconds. Hitting just one target would be enough to maintain full stacks for 20% incoming Condition damage reduction. That means 193.6 damage per second from bleeds at 1400, 299.6 dps at 2150. With only a minimal lost of health gained from PC (about a 5hp per tick loss at 1400, 7.5 health at 2150) You can maintain full health using Plague will all the traits mentioned with just two target at 1400 Condition damage, and with three targets at 2150.

Obviously, having to take 3 different traits (Parasitic Contagion, Vampiric Presence, and Corrupter’s Fervor) and trying up all your specialization slots to make one worthwhile is a terrible waste of effort. On the other hand, the more I look at the potential build for this, the more I start to warm up to the idea of running something like it, and not just so Plague won’t kill me.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Bhawb.7408:

NeHoMaR.9812:

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

People have calculated it, it is effectively 40 ticks of bleeds, and that is with no added bleed duration, and they will tick for at least 180 per second in a condi build. A very conservative estimate puts it at dealing 7200 damage to yourself in a condi build, but you could easily go over 10k self damage, just to use your elite. This also doesn’t include whatever the MoC condition does.

I use Plague as an emergency button, to escape in WvW, and normally cancel it in a few seconds, the main benefits I like more is the increased toughness/vitality and stability, that part was not nerfed. I don’t see the bleeding nerf as big as others see it, of course I don’t like it. Also, I use a Power build, so how much bleeding damage I could get? I think I am not going to notice it.

That is something to keep in mind; Activating Plague triples your base Vitality. At the new base of 1000, that’s 20k additional health which you will have while the skill is active… and IIRC, damage on the extra HP does not transfer to you when the skill ends.

EDIT: got math wrong, fixing…

EDIT2: Math is fixed, number of targets needed to offset the bleeding should be accurate.

EDIT3: Actually tested the Vitality part. You actually maintain the same % of health you had in Plague once you leave Plague. So while the damage you have actually taken once Plague ends is less than 10k of your normal health, the extra health doesn’t completely absorb the bleed damage.

NeHoMaR.9812:

Bhawb.7408:

NeHoMaR.9812:

Not sure If people is missing something here, or I am, but Plague is going to add a maximum of 2 stacks of bleeding at the same time, that is nothing, by the time you get the 3rd stack, the 1st one end.

People have calculated it, it is effectively 40 ticks of bleeds, and that is with no added bleed duration, and they will tick for at least 180 per second in a condi build. A very conservative estimate puts it at dealing 7200 damage to yourself in a condi build, but you could easily go over 10k self damage, just to use your elite. This also doesn’t include whatever the MoC condition does.

I use Plague as an emergency button, to escape in WvW, and normally cancel it in a few seconds, the main benefits I like more is the increased toughness/vitality and stability, that part was not nerfed. I don’t see the bleeding nerf as big as others see it, of course I don’t like it. Also, I use a Power build, so how much bleeding damage I could get? I think I am not going to notice it.

In a Power build, you will probably only see 920 damage taken from the self-bleeds, though each Might stack you have increases the damage by 90 total.

However, condition builds really don’t have a good elite. Lich Form does lousy damage if you don’t have good Power and Flesh Golem still kitten s around. Now Plague also does half of your opponent’s jobs for them.

Linnael.1069:

Given that plague gives you no means to handle movement impairing conditions and can’t deal with ranged kiting at all, it makes a pretty kitten poor escape unless you’re within hobbling distance of a tower/keep.

It’s intended strength is bunkering in PvP…………

With escape I mean survive, I survived hundreds of times with Plague. Of course, I don’t play alone in WvW, and Necros are not Warriors, so not real better way to escape bad moments.

I also use it in PvP because of the ridiculous tanking. Basically, I use that Elite everywhere, WvW, PvE, PvP.

Side note: I don’t really think meta will change to conditions, maybe the first days, then people will return to direct damage again.

I agree with Drarnor for power builds our condis will do less damage than now and with no extra Condi duration(assuming you don’t spec curses) it will only be two stacks of bleeds which is negligable. Also since it is off of the plague hp when you exit the form your hp will still be at the same total % so the actual damage you take from it won’t be much at all.