Guild Wars 2

Dear development team, on behalf of the necromancer community, please address the problems with our core profession mechanic: Death Shroud. We would be overjoyed if at least one or two of the following problems were resolved. Because as it stands, Death Shroud is very disappointing in pvp, wvw and pve.

-Focused Fire. Please allow Death Shroud to offer some protection against it, instead of evaporating in one second. We tend to be the very first class that everyone targets, and while other classes can activate their invulnerability skill, our main form of defense offers no protection against this.

-Spike damage. Please allow Death Shroud to protect us against one single damage spike, without the damage spilling over into our actual health pool. We have no defense against insta-kills, while every other class has a means to deal with it (evade, block, invulnerability, stealth, endurance). We used to have this on launch, but after the removal of this function, it stripped the necromancer of a lot of tactical play, making the class a lot less fun to play.

-Stun locking. A necromancer in Death Shroud gets knocked around with ease, and thus DS is not an effective defense. Other classes hit their invulnerability skill, but meanwhile we get rooted in place, and obliterated. Something like the old Shade trait would be extremely welcome, and would solve a lot of issues with Death Shroud.

-Conditions. Conditions continue to affect necromancers in Death Shroud, by keeping them chilled, crippled, and ticking away at their life force bar. But any invulnerability skill makes other classes immune to conditions. Why is DS so sub par in this regard?

-The skills. Death Shroud’s 2nd skill is extremely slow, making it hard to do combos with it, and making it very hard to land a hit. Speeding up the projectile, or making it an instant hit, would greatly improve our ability to close in on opponents. Also the life force gained from Life Transfer hardly makes the bar go up an inch, and the damage is kind of disappointing. Death Shroud should be something that opponents fear.

-Allow us to swap weapons in Death Shroud. This again is a tactical element that made Death Shroud fun. It adds depth to our core class mechanic.

Is this a troll bait? I’m very tempted to reply to this, but I don’t want to waste my time on it.

Nerien.5412:

Is this a troll bait? I’m very tempted to reply to this, but I don’t want to waste my time on it.

If Necros had survivability you’d probably see something besides condi burst and MM.
Also, condi burst is now on a level below before the dhuumfire patch from all the AoE and skill nerfs we received since then.

Lol. Just lol.
Can’t believe I just have read this.

Edit: U want to be forever in this Dshroud or what?:p
Like u can’t take damage? You are already OP btw.

Ds it’s fine, it actually charge to fast with a MM or having a MM in your team, necro has plenty of pressure and a Full Ds it’s very powerfull, in WvW i have no way to not be a full Ds all the time

I agree with some stuff such as n2 on DS not only is extremly slow but if ur against a spirit ranger or MM or any class with Tons of AI the skill is pretty much usless since u will be ported to the first target u hit … I don’t agree on the spike dmg im playin with dual Spectral utilites Spectral Armor +Spectral Walk +Spectral Wall 10/30-/-/30 and i can tank 2v1 and sometimes 3v1 since i have pretty much perma ds for 5-12 sec .I would say at least from my point of view, the necro is in a good spot but still not there yet .

such a troll lol

Quincy.2198:

Edit: U want to be forever in this Dshroud or what?:p
Like u can’t take damage? You are already OP btw.

Oh no, I definitely do not want to stay in Death Shroud forever. Which is why I made no suggestions to remove the natural life force degen. But as it stands now, Death Shroud is one of the poorest defenses in the game.

• Keep in mind, we cannot heal in DS.
• It locks us out of all our skills.
• We aren’t invulnerable in DS, and have no invulnerability skills at all outside it.
• We are not immune to conditions in DS.
• We do not have stability in DS, unless traited for just a few seconds.
• It is not a second healthbar.
• We can’t stomp in DS, unless we exploit a glitch.

How is it fair to keep our core defensive class mechanic in this state, when all of the other classes have at least one skill that out performs it completely? We are supposed to be the attrition class remember?

Now compare our core class mechanic to something like:

• Mistform
• Obsidian Flesh
• Elixir S
• Renewed Focus
• Distortion

Alugjen Darlas.5329:

I don’t agree on the spike dmg im playin with dual Spectral utilites Spectral Armor +Spectral Walk +Spectral Wall 10/30-/-/30 and i can tank 2v1 and sometimes 3v1 since i have pretty much perma ds for 5-12 sec .I would say at least from my point of view, the necro is in a good spot but still not there yet .

Even with that build, it is still out performed by any ordinary invulnerability skill. It doesn’t scale against higher number of enemies. And I’m not saying a necromancer should be invulnerable for 12 seconds. But I don’t think a guardian or warrior should be able to dash through a zillion players unharmed, while the necro is the only class that gets obliterated instantly. The attrition class!

http://www.twitch.tv/symkitten/c/2622702

Symkitten is funny.

I main an elementalist and im playing necro in tourns for a while now… DS is superb.
Mist form? Really? You compare an 75 sec skill than its useful only for avoiding damage for 3 sec with DS ?
I agree obsidian flesh is another mater but has a 50 sec cooldown and it is a weapon skill.
When i switch to my ele from necro i feel like a kitten, and i’m playing power necro with crit damage. No the faceroll condi.
Try play an ele and take both from the above skills and then tell me how many times you survive and how useful you were to your team.
In another matter, DS has some problems, the most annoying one is the lag that you have in your utils after DS. They don’t show for a couple of seconds. If you dodgeroll after the DS though they appear ok xD

Xaos.3257:

I main an elementalist and im playing necro in tourns for a while now… DS is superb.
Mist form? Really? You compare an 75 sec skill than its useful only for avoiding damage for 3 sec with DS ?
I agree obsidian flesh is another mater but has a 50 sec cooldown and it is a weapon skill.
When i switch to my ele from necro i feel like a kitten, and i’m playing power necro with crit damage. No the faceroll condi.
Try play an ele and take both from the above skills and then tell me how many times you survive and how useful you were to your team.
In another matter, DS has some problems, the most annoying one is the lag that you have in your utils after DS. They don’t show for a couple of seconds. If you dodgeroll after the DS though they appear ok xD

Face roll condi ? lal terror build is good enuf on tfights ? Oo insta melt…

Bsgapollo.5364:

http://www.twitch.tv/symkitten/c/2622702

spectral wall for teh win instead of corrupt :P ,is a must have :P.

It would be ok if they would fix the bugs that ds has…
The 3 second deley of the 6-0 skills after leaving ds due no lifeforce left, killed me too often…

And being able to interact should also be possible in ds (using portals,rezzing,stomping etc)

Bsgapollo.5364:

http://www.twitch.tv/symkitten/c/2622702

Honestly, I wished this was kept in. A semi-invulnerability (doesn’t help as much against condi pressure) that requires you to line up two cooldowns (spectral armor or walk along with your DS cooldown) would have been fine. It’d be similar to the same defensive power stance warriors get for a limited amount of time. But, it’s that very fact that probably got it nerfed.

Can i say “l2p” or wait for it until a dev comes? Oh sorry, only necromancers need to adapt, not other classes.

Just removing the skill lock out when coming out of DS would be nice.

Sorry queen for the last post. Constructive mode ON:

- Proir the spectral nerf necro was fine against focus fire as you can see in the twitch link above. Currently the SArmor and SWalk has an ICD and makes them pointless against multiple opponents. Sometimes i feel it weak against fast hitting too.

- Not only the block removed and flow through to our normal HP, its bugged as i found out here.

- Theoretically we have an awesome uptime on stability, but in reality its bad. Only available if you spend 30 points in a trait line where you wouldnt heavily invest and for that you need to choose two mandatory traits for that. Mind you, DS isnt a stunbreaker.

- After the insane nerf of putrid mark (cough bug cough fix it cough), necro loss a huge condi removal potencial, especially in group enviroment so its an issue in all game modes.

- Ehm, yeah, DS skills needs some tweak. Dark path as a gap closer / chase ability just sucks hard and make our non-existent mobility and lockdown ability (lol) more pathetic.

And on a side note, i would love to see some discussion here from non necro players too, because as i see above, everybody see our DS overpowered, meanwhile it disappears in 1 second ingame (from 100% life force do insta downed, yeah it happens still). I know, im a noob, but if more experienced players get this up every other day, then its an issue i think.

ps: fix the skill lockout asap!

The problem when you talk to non necromancers about necromancers is, all they see is Dhuumfire. They don’t know anything else about the necromancer except for Dhuumfire. And since Dhuumfire necromancer is very strong, it is very hard to convince non necromancers that there are many major issues with the necromancer.

Let’s get one thing straight right from the start: 80-90% of the necromancer players wants Dhuumfire totally removed. No one likes it, necro or non necro players. This trait is broken, and everyone knows it.

The way I see it DS is hopelessly broken. And worst of all it is one of the most boring mechanic in the whole game. I say just scrap the whole thing and rebuild from the ground.

For example, change DS into fight with spirits. This is a much more appealing and cooler mechanic than the current boring and broken DS.

Lol, thread moved … xD

At least you tried

I gave it a good try, but as usual necromancer topics get buried in a spot where no dev ever visits. I guess the necromancer is not considered important for pvp discussion. But the joke’s on them, necromancers always make things rise back from the dead. So burying the problems will do them no good in the long run.

Apparently they’re making a balance specific forum next year, so we’ll need people to lobby the Necro agenda in it.

“Forum Structure Changes

We will be making updated forum structure changes. We’ll be opening a new Profession Balance sub-forum, but merging/archiving some of the less used sub-forums. "

I wouldnt surprised if it means the deleting of Necro sub-forum.

Necromancers are not going to be given a serious look by anyone as long as people see Dhuumfire+Terror as the equivalent to backstab in terms of cheese. And since the dev team seems to want to keep Dhuumfire…

Get used to being “that class who uses cheese builds exclusively and has two health bars and doesn’t die instantly when I poke them in the back with my knife plz nerf because I don’t know what stun breaks and condition removal and crowd control are.”

Dalanor.5387:

Sorry queen for the last post. Constructive mode ON:

- Proir the spectral nerf necro was fine against focus fire as you can see in the twitch link above. Currently the SArmor and SWalk has an ICD and makes them pointless against multiple opponents. Sometimes i feel it weak against fast hitting too.

I thionk they’re actually stronger in 1v1 now than they were before. But yeah, I agree, weaker vs multiple opponents. Like Nemesis said many times, DS acting like a bonus health pool makes it very powerful for 1v1 and useless in group fights, and introducing an ICD on spectral walk/armour just reinforces this. Now, if they made the ICD work PER OPPONENT rather than on the armour (like ele auras do), so you’re getting more LF the more people you’re getting hit by instead of a flat 8%/second, that would make it better for group fights.

- Theoretically we have an awesome uptime on stability, but in reality its bad. Only available if you spend 30 points in a trait line where you wouldnt heavily invest and for that you need to choose two mandatory traits for that. Mind you, DS isnt a stunbreaker.

That indeed is a problem, stability doesn’t remove CC if you’re already under it, so flashing into DS won’t break stun: so even with foot in the grave it remains just an extra health pool with which to facetank damage.

- After the insane nerf of putrid mark (cough bug cough fix it cough), necro loss a huge condi removal potencial, especially in group enviroment so its an issue in all game modes.

Ahem! https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Putrid-Mark-and-teamplay-suggestions/first#post3382145

ps: fix the skill lockout asap!

THIS!

MQM i thought that you knew better than trying to sneak in necro stuff anywhere where devs actually look, since the draco mods have some sort of 100% corpse cleanser, doing stuff like deleting bug fix threads in the bug fix section if a necro is mentioned or plain banning people.

amiavamp.9785:

Necromancers are not going to be given a serious look by anyone as long as people see Dhuumfire+Terror as the equivalent to backstab in terms of cheese. And since the dev team seems to want to keep Dhuumfire…

Get used to being “that class who uses cheese builds exclusively and has two health bars and doesn’t die instantly when I poke them in the back with my knife plz nerf because I don’t know what stun breaks and condition removal and crowd control are.”

I wonder if most people know that we’d be willing to give up our super-duper second health bar for a simple block. I’d rather mitigate hundreds of thousands of dps than just 16k. Oh well, at this point I’d settle for just a fix to the DS skill lockout that’s been going on forever.

in my opinion, first and foremost they need to fix the kitten delay when exiting DeathShroud in a certain way – i had a RED post in the bugs section after i made a thready saying:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Yeah I investigated this awhile ago and it’s going through our process. We will get a fix in as soon as we can.

Thanks ~~

Though to me, that means nothing considering how long this issue has been going on for. They also need to fix the Deathhroud skills having to trait for Life Blast to be WORTH using is kind of annoying but boy its worth it, the rest are just Meh and Dark Path is a joke and rarely even works. They could buff up the Life Force gain from Life Transfer and i would prefer they replaced Tainted Shackles with something else.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

in my opinion, first and foremost they need to fix the kitten delay when exiting DeathShroud in a certain way – i had a RED post in the bugs section after i made a thready saying:

Tyler Chapman.1832:

Yeah I investigated this awhile ago and it’s going through our process. We will get a fix in as soon as we can.

Thanks ~~

Though to me, that means nothing considering how long this issue has been going on for. They also need to fix the Deathhroud skills having to trait for Life Blast to be WORTH using is kind of annoying but boy its worth it, the rest are just Meh and Dark Path is a joke and rarely even works. They could buff up the Life Force gain from Life Transfer and i would prefer they replaced Tainted Shackles with something else.

Tainted Shackles is one of the better abilities in the game because it’s useful for every build. Although I do find it a little silly how it’s such a fast cast to the point where the cast animation looks goofy, but I guess I shouldn’t complain about that.

Life Transfer does a massive amount of lifeforce gain against multiple targets. Of course, it’s most heavily telegraphed attack in the game and it goes on full cooldown when interrupted. I would appreciate it if they at least buffed Dark Armor to be equivalent to the mesmer mantra trait equivalent.

Dark Path really is a joke, though. It’s useful in every situation except the one it’s designed for – catching enemies. The most use I’ve gotten out of it is stacking bleeds as conditionmancer (probably not even a boost to DPS) and, on my PvP power build, comboing it with Doom right before it lands so I get in some free hits, then following up with Spectral Grasp (assuming it doesn’t send itself to the moon).

amiavamp.9785:

Tainted Shackles is one of the better abilities in the game because its useful for every build. Although I do find it a little silly how it’s such a fast cast to the point where the cast animation looks goofy, but I guess I shouldn’t complain about that.

Dark Path really is a joke, though. It’s useful in every situation except the one it’s designed for – catching enemies. The most use I’ve gotten out of it is stacking bleeds as conditionmancer (probably not even a boost to DPS) and, on my PvP power build, comboing it with Doom right before it lands so I get in some free hits, then following up with Spectral Grasp (assuming it doesn’t send itself to the moon).

The problem with it, with us having such low mobility its quite easy for pretty much any class to get out of its range, i would have preferred if it inflicted Cripple as well i mean after all its on a big cool down (too big imo) and it doesnt always affect everyone seems to have a 5target limited or something which very much sucks.

Its too buggy for my liking, An interesting and IF it worked VERY useful skill how ever the projectile is FAR too slow. Maybe turning it into a AoE that teleports you to a specific area and then inflicts AoE Bleeding and AoE chill would be better, then it would also serve as an escape option

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

amiavamp.9785:

Tainted Shackles is one of the better abilities in the game because its useful for every build. Although I do find it a little silly how it’s such a fast cast to the point where the cast animation looks goofy, but I guess I shouldn’t complain about that.

Dark Path really is a joke, though. It’s useful in every situation except the one it’s designed for – catching enemies. The most use I’ve gotten out of it is stacking bleeds as conditionmancer (probably not even a boost to DPS) and, on my PvP power build, comboing it with Doom right before it lands so I get in some free hits, then following up with Spectral Grasp (assuming it doesn’t send itself to the moon).

The problem with it, with us having such low mobility its quite easy for pretty much any class to get out of its range, i would have preferred if it inflicted Cripple as well i mean after all its on a big cool down (too big imo) and it doesnt always affect everyone seems to have a 5target limited or something which very much sucks.

Its too buggy for my liking, An interesting and IF it worked VERY useful skill how ever the projectile is FAR too slow. Maybe turning it into a AoE that teleports you to a specific area and then inflicts AoE Bleeding and AoE chill would be better, then it would also serve as an escape option

Tainted Shackles was designed the way it is (along with Torment) to punish melee for staying close to the necromancer. The massive amount of mobility melee players tend to have makes this a non-issue though, so it’s basically just a free damage buff since it has almost no cast time.

Dark Path apparently was in fact a teleport in the beta. Then they changed it to its current form and had to buff it a few times to move faster than a snail. I’m not a fan of abilities that have 0 telegraph, but maybe it should just be turned into something similar to the guardian sword teleport where it moves you to the enemy instantly. Maybe it could still have a cast time but the movement be instantaneous instead of relying on a projectile – basically like Spinal Shivers. Then Dark Path and Spinal Shivers might be a bit too similar, but at the same time, I noticed my dagger/focus elementalist has two water skills which are almost identical to one another as well…

amiavamp.9785:

Tainted Shackles was designed the way it is (along with Torment) to punish melee for staying close to the necromancer. The massive amount of mobility melee players tend to have makes this a non-issue though, so it’s basically just a free damage buff since it has almost no cast time.

Dark Path apparently was in fact a teleport in the beta. Then they changed it to its current form and had to buff it a few times to move faster than a snail. I’m not a fan of abilities that have 0 telegraph, but maybe it should just be turned into something similar to the guardian sword teleport where it moves you to the enemy instantly. Maybe it could still have a cast time but the movement be instantaneous instead of relying on a projectile – basically like Spinal Shivers. Then Dark Path and Spinal Shivers might be a bit too similar, but at the same time, I noticed my dagger/focus elementalist has two water skills which are almost identical to one another as well…

Its Torment isnt the reason it SHOULD be good, it is the Immobilize, the Torment is just a nice bonus with the fact that we have SO little in terms of chasing power that Immobilize needs to be 100% which it simply isnt kitten many classes can port, jump, leap and swing there way out of range Maybe increase the range to 1200? and increase the cooldown to say 45seconds.

for a Telegraph what they could do make it say like gather dark energy around you, make it a 1second cast and teleport to the location dealing damage, AoE Bleeding and AoE Chill.

Make Dark Path it an enemy triggered teleport Mark; then we can use it in deceptive ways; gets rid of the stupid terrain hijinks, etc.

Being able to port past the usual incoming warrior hammer train to the enemy backlines to ream their squishies would be hilarious.

And you still could not use it as a reliable disengage so that precious Vision is still preserved.

Overkillengine.6084:

Make Dark Path it an enemy triggered teleport Mark; then we can use it in deceptive ways; gets rid of the stupid terrain hijinks, etc.

Causes issues in WvW. If it worked as you describe, then instead of siege equipment to bring down gates, you would see a bunch of necros using their “grappling hook” on the NPC guards atop the walls. This is the same reason Flesh Wurm’s teleport is a shadowstep and not a true teleport.

I’ve repeatedly said Dark Path should work like Judge’s Intervention (since Guardians are also meant to lack to mobility) and I still believe that.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Overkillengine.6084:

Make Dark Path it an enemy triggered teleport Mark; then we can use it in deceptive ways; gets rid of the stupid terrain hijinks, etc.

Causes issues in WvW. If it worked as you describe, then instead of siege equipment to bring down gates, you would see a bunch of necros using their “grappling hook” on the NPC guards atop the walls. This is the same reason Flesh Wurm’s teleport is a shadowstep and not a true teleport.

Actually what I had in mind was a Mark version of this:

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shadow_Trap

Except instead of stealth it auto triggers the current Dark Path effects when an enemy trips the Mark. To my knowledge it cannot get a Thief up on a wall, so neither would my suggestion.

It gets rid of the kitten poor projectile speed and targeting issues and actually makes the skill useful for catching someone after they have started to disengage instead of almost having to proactively fire it if you even think the enemy might be considering running.

Why not just use Blink as a template – Add Bleeding and Chill on the other end as an AoE and boon, its sorted.

Because a Mark requires a target which preserves the precious low/no mobility vision, so we are more likely to get something that requires a target.

Aaaaaand there might be some trait interactions that could be kind of fun with having the skill have the Mark category….

<<
>>

Overkillengine.6084:

Because a Mark requires a target which preserves the precious low/no mobility vision, so we are more likely to get something that requires a target.

Screw the low mobility, if they cant be bothered to actually do the other half and make it so that we cant be burst down as if we dont have any clothes on then surely, surely they should give us mobility. Even then its in DeathShroud and given a 15-20second cool down it would be fine,

As you would be using DeathShroud (9 second cool down) and then the skill (15-20second cool down) to do what EVERYONE else can do on a shorter cool down and without locking themselves out of there class mechanic for 9seconds…

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Overkillengine.6084:

Because a Mark requires a target which preserves the precious low/no mobility vision, so we are more likely to get something that requires a target.

Screw the low mobility, if they cant be bothered to actually do the other half and make it so that we cant be burst down as if we dont have any clothes on then surely, surely they should give us mobility. Even then its in DeathShroud and given a 15-20second cool down it would be fine,

As you would be using DeathShroud (9 second cool down) and then the skill (15-20second cool down) to do what EVERYONE else can do on a shorter cool down and without locking themselves out of there class mechanic for 9seconds…

Being able to mark-port into the backlines past the melee train would help a lot with that actually.

I can understand the desire for unrestricted mobility. We aren’t getting it. No point in asking. Even less point than complaining or offering feedback actually, which is saying something.

Our best route when asking for anything is to ask for the tools that we already have to actually be effective and reliable, without violating the constraints we all know kitten well we will never be allowed to not have.

Edit: plus with an increase in the number non-staff Marks we could possibly lobby for an alteration of Staff Mastery to apply to all Marks to open up more build options.

You now the problem is that necro was advertised to be able lockdown opponents and keep them in fight, which isnt true ingame. Hell, did you ever see a dps guardian in WvW? It can port to the other side of the galaxy in 2 seconds. The guardian, a non-mobile class in full plate armor.
So its a bit frustrating to have 1 ability to chase something and that skill is so unreliable it hurts.

Dalanor.5387:

You now the problem is that necro was advertised to be able lockdown opponents and keep them in fight, which isnt true ingame. Hell, did you ever see a dps guardian in WvW? It can port to the other side of the galaxy in 2 seconds. The guardian, a non-mobile class in full plate armor.
So its a bit frustrating to have 1 ability to chase something and that skill is so unreliable it hurts.

I pretty much take Spectral Grasp for this reason, in a mostly vein attempt to stop runners.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Dalanor.5387:

You now the problem is that necro was advertised to be able lockdown opponents and keep them in fight, which isnt true ingame. Hell, did you ever see a dps guardian in WvW? It can port to the other side of the galaxy in 2 seconds. The guardian, a non-mobile class in full plate armor.
So its a bit frustrating to have 1 ability to chase something and that skill is so unreliable it hurts.

I pretty much take Spectral Grasp for this reason, in a mostly vein attempt to stop runners.

Oh i forgot SGrasp sorry. Then we have 2 unreliable skills.

Dalanor.5387:

Oh i forgot SGrasp sorry. Then we have 2 unreliable skills.

Actually, i find it VERY useful. It works ALOT more often than Dark Path and gives Life Force all the time from my experience even when it misses.