Guild Wars 2

I wish people would start seeing Necros as what they are really. It’s sad to see so much QQ that has all a thing to do with damage and pvp. The profession has so much more to offer….

I know we may not be the best damage, but it’s funny how people love Guardians when they give you boons, but nobody notices Necros permanently stacking Weakness on trash, Chill on bosses and Vulnerability when they choose to not to mention Epidemic that greatly helps when focusing fire which is what is always done in dungeons. This usually means you take aggro, but Necros can take hits. It’s also funny to see people waving Guardians fully healing a party every 180 seconds when we can heal an infinite amount of people for 2.6k every 40 seconds.

I have to agree that a few traits don’t work, the Minions are worthless and a few skill tooltip don’t work properly, but I’d say people may want to start thinking outside the box for new ideas on what Necro can do and excel at that is not necessarily about raw damage.

Also, fun is a major aspect. This is a video game jesus people are palying it like if it was a real job trying to min max and stuff, it wont happen I know, but just have fun the profession really is fun to play.

The way the game is set up right now is that support characters get the short end of the stick reward-wise. Event rewards are based currently on how much damage you did to the enemies, and that’s it as far as I know.

Anet has also said that every class should be able to switch between doing damage and tanking and supporting their team. If Necro’s damage is lacking (which is arguable) then its support and tanking capabilities aren’t comparatively better than other classes. What I mean is, most classes can tank or support their team as well the Necro while still being able to output more damage (arguably).

One of the great things I love about necros is that they’re more of a utility, sustained damage dealer. I mean, heck, as much as I love taking everyone’s conditions and throwing it at the enemy and making sure the enemy has little boons as possible, I love the fact that all I see are white numbers popping out of whoever I’ve condition stacked the most as if they were a tiny volcano spewing white digits.

So it’s OK for every other class to play several roles, but necro MUST be a one-trick pony with a lame trick?

I really don’t think most people are QQing about Necros in PvE. They’re totally fine and very valuable in dungeons with a Wells/Healing spec butkittendoes it feel like an uphill battle in tPvP..

Actually in tPvP a healing/support well specced necro can bunker down very well, specially when the dps team members come to nuke down the players trying to kill you. I rather enjoy it happening, and the OP is right, Necros are constantly keeping enemies hampered with debuffs, and if you spec into wells and build up +healing, at that 2.6k every 40 seconds and easily become a 7k every 32 seconds.

Sebyos.4089:

I wish people would start seeing Necros as what they are really. It’s sad to see so much QQ that has all a thing to do with damage and pvp. The profession has so much more to offer….

I know we may not be the best damage, but it’s funny how people love Guardians when they give you boons, but nobody notices Necros permanently stacking Weakness on trash, Chill on bosses and Vulnerability when they choose to not to mention Epidemic that greatly helps when focusing fire which is what is always done in dungeons. This usually means you take aggro, but Necros can take hits. It’s also funny to see people waving Guardians fully healing a party every 180 seconds when we can heal an infinite amount of people for 2.6k every 40 seconds.

I have to agree that a few traits don’t work, the Minions are worthless and a few skill tooltip don’t work properly, but I’d say people may want to start thinking outside the box for new ideas on what Necro can do and excel at that is not necessarily about raw damage.

Also, fun is a major aspect. This is a video game jesus people are palying it like if it was a real job trying to min max and stuff, it wont happen I know, but just have fun the profession really is fun to play.

The problem is that Events only let you stack 25 bleeds. Meaning that if more than 2 Condition builds from any Prof show up the others might as well just go home. That is unexceptionable that 2 players can make the other 98 (assuming they all go condition, and an event scales to 100) do no damage and only get bronze.

Sjach Darasv.3729:

Actually in tPvP a healing/support well specced necro can bunker down very well, specially when the dps team members come to nuke down the players trying to kill you. I rather enjoy it happening, and the OP is right, Necros are constantly keeping enemies hampered with debuffs, and if you spec into wells and build up +healing, at that 2.6k every 40 seconds and easily become a 7k every 32 seconds.

That may be the case, but Engineers and Guardians will outbunker you every time.

See, the thing with Engineers is that, they can do everything you just said, AND they can actually kill you, and throw conditions on enemies / boons on allies.

See, The thing with Guardians is that, they can do everything you just said, AND they grant everyone around them infinity boons, and you can’t actually kill the Guardian.

See, The thing with Necromancers is that, they can do everything you just said, AND they grant no boons to anyone around them, they are actually easy to kill, and they won’t actually kill you. Sometimes they can perform really well at the removing boons thing, but boons go up so fast, and condition removal is a valuable commodity in tPvP so everyone takes tons of it.

Furthermore, while utility is great and all, in tPvP, a lot of the fights are 1v1, 1v2, 2v3, and 3v3. So if you are a utility Necro, then in a 1v1 you are going to be doing everything you can to not die while one of your buddies shows up to save the day; in a 1v2 you are just buffing your friend, which effectively doesn’t do much, because while you do help him win, 2 damage dealers would do the exact same thing and win as well. In a 2v3, you start to actually show a little promise. Very rarely you can support yourself and your partner well enough to survive 3 other players trouncing you. If it’s the other way around, then again, 3 damage dealers would have done the exact same thing as you and 2 damage dealer buddies in a fight with 2 enemy players. Now, in the 3v3 situation, you do actually shine. You can support and heal your teammates, hopefully debilitate the enemies, and hopefully not get shanked by focus fire. So 25% of the time you work effectively and the other 75% of the time you are just trying to get by. That doesn’t seem effective; contrast this to any other class where they are effective in 75% to 100% of these hypothetical situations.

Mathemagician.7314:

See, The thing with Necromancers is that, they can do everything you just said, AND they grant no boons to anyone around them, they are actually easy to kill, and they won’t actually kill you. Sometimes they can perform really well at the removing boons thing, but boons go up so fast, and condition removal is a valuable commodity in tPvP so everyone takes tons of it.

Funny, necros hard counter guardians because of all those boons they constantly put up. Necro has 2 abilities that run any boon on a foe into a condition, and we can fear them out of their projectile blocking bubble. We also have a well that turns any conditions on allies into boons, oh and both these wells grant allies lifesteal. Not to mention these wells will also damage down those engineers turrets and with the aoe from staff and increased mark size, yeah those turrets become more of a minor annoyance.

Necros are priceless in Dungeons and PvE.
I myself running with full well spec (blood,power,drakenss and suffering) with 0/30/10/30 Spec and benefit alot to the team in terms of conditions,heals debuffing and survivability
Comparing it to the guardian is wrong, as they are different at what they do.
Guardian is a boon-buffers mainly while necro is a debuffer and condition remover in PvE.
.

Sjach Darasv.3729:

Mathemagician.7314:

See, The thing with Necromancers is that, they can do everything you just said, AND they grant no boons to anyone around them, they are actually easy to kill, and they won’t actually kill you. Sometimes they can perform really well at the removing boons thing, but boons go up so fast, and condition removal is a valuable commodity in tPvP so everyone takes tons of it.

Funny, necros hard counter guardians because of all those boons they constantly put up. Necro has 2 abilities that run any boon on a foe into a condition, and we can fear them out of their projectile blocking bubble. We also have a well that turns any conditions on allies into boons, oh and both these wells grant allies lifesteal. Not to mention these wells will also damage down those engineers turrets and with the aoe from staff and increased mark size, yeah those turrets become more of a minor annoyance.

Yeah, it is funny.

Because actually, they don’t hard counter guardians, because Guardians have abilities that are direct inverses of ours; not to mention their signet of resolve which is constantly eating conditions. One ability consumes all conditions and converts them into boons. Sound familiar? Further, even after you eat all their boons and convert them into conditions, they have all most of their boons up again within 3 seconds.

We have one long distance one, Corrupt Boon, which is indispensable in any necro spec, but is directly negated by Contemplation of Purity. Then we have a PBAoE one(unless you are well specced) which is unusable because it puts you are out of position and into danger, or you have spent a lot of points being an inferior utility, and thus suffer in other areas(like damage). Further, it is childishly easy to dodge, only ticks 5x, and is directly countered by Ray of Judgement and and Purifying Ribbon.

Ouch so many posts talking about pvp… This is a PvE thread sorry.

I will agree that stacks of bleed hurt Necro alot, but it’s not just us it’s condition builds in general and in fact, especially the burn and poison builds.

That being said, it doesn’t really mean getting a bronze all the time. Also, events are really easy and in terms of PvE, things only matter in EM dungeons where Necro can really shine.

It’s amazing how some boss fights can go with perma Chill or how amazing Weakness is when you take a glancing blow of 5k damage, which would have been 10k. People like having protection for a few seconds and a weak regeneration that ticks for 150, but they don’t care about 50% less damage or a boss that can use his devastating skills way less often ?! Same thing can be said with perma poison agaisnt bosses with regeneration or vulnerability stacking with a heavy physical damage party.

Boon removal/transformation is also a pretty good asset. Some bosses will have good boons like might, fury and protection. For example, there is the Eye of Zhaitan in Orr who stacks 25 stacks of might and fury then starts destroying people or a boss on HotW that has Protection all the time. (Not the Butcher.)

Like I said I think the Necro has a lot to offer in terms of condition and it’s not just the classic condition mancer that should be called Bleedmancer. because it’s just what it does. It seems to me like we can choose what debuff conditions to apply and easily stack it on anything (except weakness on bosses) as well as removing boons so easily.

Thank you, I completely agree. We do need a bit more damage output, but I’ve been doing great PvE solo and group play. Here’s something I posted in response to another thread..

While I find that the axe is very weak in terms of pure damage output, it is an amazing kiting weapon.
For example I use an axe+dagger/staff. Depending on the situation I use well of suffering, and… what ever the blinding well is, along with the line that gives protection – or I use the minion that blinds, and the minion that snares.
I can quite easily kite and solo kill mobs of 5 or more at the same time, or a veteran/champion even with a few adds (as long as there are no long ranged enemies). It basically consists of running in, using daggers #4 to aoe blind, axe #3 to snare and running around using 1, 2 and 5 with the axe+dagger until you can do the blind or snare again. Then switch to the staff, use #3 for the snare, some of the others for damage and occasionally #5 for the fear.
If everything is somehow on cooldown, you have a pet who can snare until your cripples are off CD, a pet who can blind to bind you a few seconds, and a well that blinds all enemies in an area for multiple seconds. Top it all off with popping in and out of death shroud when things are on cooldown, and whenever #4 DS comes off cooldown for the aoe damage, increased health and a short fear, AND Plague elite (haven’t unlocked lich form yet) you can dish out some serious aoe while not taking a ton of damage.
So yes, our pure damage output is pathetic, and our condition damage is weak compared to everything else, but we can kite like a sonofa…

The Boz.2038:

So it’s OK for every other class to play several roles, but necro MUST be a one-trick pony with a lame trick?

Echoing this because it shares my sentiments regarding this class.

Sebyos, I love you. Thank you sir, thank you for reading my mind and posting this lovely post. I have a short story if you will…

Group of five walk into Twilight Arbor (exp)
Four of them are warrior (I know right!)
All of them dps traited
Me a Mesmer
They die at least fifteen times
I died once…

Thank you sir thank you!

Is it just me or does it seem like the OP completely overlooks the fact that all professions bring conditions and in many cases they are far stronger and/or more accessible than ours.

There is really no reason to bring a Necro to apply conditions while everyone else pew pews away when you can bring 5 professions that will give you full condition coverage as well as boon coverage and damage that a Necro would not provide.

With the way the game is designed a pure support build is not comparable to a build that can deal damage and still provide the necessary support (boons/conditions/control/combos/utility/etc.).

Dropping 3x dark fields and having a warrior/engineer/thief dropping blast finishers and maybe the occasional whirl is a whole bunch of damage mitigation.

And if you want burst, take minion master, training of the master, close to death and putrid explosion will be good for about 2k x 2 damage every 16 seconds and it’s a blast finisher which is nice to have if also happen to have well of suffering and corruption…

Navi.1032:

Is it just me or does it seem like the OP completely overlooks the fact that all professions bring conditions and in many cases they are far stronger and/or more accessible than ours.

There is really no reason to bring a Necro to apply conditions while everyone else pew pews away when you can bring 5 professions that will give you full condition coverage as well as boon coverage and damage that a Necro would not provide.

With the way the game is designed a pure support build is not comparable to a build that can deal damage and still provide the necessary support (boons/conditions/control/combos/utility/etc.).

You seem to forget that Necro can do it without losing damage too. Bleed damage ticks between 117 and 125 for me atm and I got weak gear so it feels like it’s good damage and great AoE.

Also sorry, but you seem to be using just theorycrafting. However, I’m using my experience in dungeons (50 hours or so) and so far, it tells me that most people got damage builds and don’t bring any support at all and worse, they die constantly while bragging about the 6-10k crits they can’t land because they die so much. I’m much happier staying alive and constantly keeping 10 bleeds up on every target than I would landing a few big hits here and there and dying so much.

So no I really don’t think other profession bring the necessary support of conditions and boons you’r talking about right now and if people someday start thinking about support a bit more I’m fairly sure we would still have a nice little niche.

If you are not the last person alive in Dungeons than you are not playing a Necromancer correct. When my parties wipe in Dungeons, I am always the last player dead. Necromancers have so many ways to stay alive that it is not even right.

Even in WvW I can live a long time Unless I get focused but that does not happen often as most players seem to think Necromancers cannot do much damage and kill them.

1v1 in WvW, I have won more than I have lost. Normally they just run away after we fight as they realize they cannot kill me and if they Stayed I would kill them. Necromancers if anything need a stun or root beside the few we get.

Sebyos.4089:

Navi.1032:

Is it just me or does it seem like the OP completely overlooks the fact that all professions bring conditions and in many cases they are far stronger and/or more accessible than ours.

There is really no reason to bring a Necro to apply conditions while everyone else pew pews away when you can bring 5 professions that will give you full condition coverage as well as boon coverage and damage that a Necro would not provide.

With the way the game is designed a pure support build is not comparable to a build that can deal damage and still provide the necessary support (boons/conditions/control/combos/utility/etc.).

You seem to forget that Necro can do it without losing damage too. Bleed damage ticks between 117 and 125 for me atm and I got weak gear so it feels like it’s good damage and great AoE.

Also sorry, but you seem to be using just theorycrafting. However, I’m using my experience in dungeons (50 hours or so) and so far, it tells me that most people got damage builds and don’t bring any support at all and worse, they die constantly while bragging about the 6-10k crits they can’t land because they die so much. I’m much happier staying alive and constantly keeping 10 bleeds up on every target than I would landing a few big hits here and there and dying so much.

So no I really don’t think other profession bring the necessary support of conditions and boons you’r talking about right now and if people someday start thinking about support a bit more I’m fairly sure we would still have a nice little niche.

I seem to be using just theorycrafting according to what? Nice, completely baseless, assumption there. Also, theorycraft will always be superior to anecdotal evidence.
I have farmed a full set of CoF gear (and not just running Magg over and over although that was a large part of it for the first few pieces) and have done exploration modes in all the other dungeons as well (working towards completing all the paths). I’ve spent far more than 50 hours in dungeons.

The players that I run with all play hybrid builds (a mix of survivability, utility, and damage; really the only way you can complete some of the exploration modes) and comparative to these builds Necromancers do not bring enough utility to offset the large gap in damage. We don’t even bring a large portion of utility when you look beyond conditions. Our choices for combo finishers and fields, boons, and unique skills (like Quickness and Stealth) pale in comparison to other professions.

Comparing your damage and survivability to bad randoms you run dungeons with is also hardly useful in illustrating your point. Play with good players, they will still hit for 6k+ and won’t die. They will debuff a target just as much as you will while providing boons and utilizing combo effects.
A profession having 1 niche is not balanced when nearly all other professions can perform in a variety of different ways.

OP just keeps talking about condition. That’s cool and all and should be viable (and better when condition stack on mobs are changed) but that’s really all the Necromancer can do at the moment that is even remotely competitive with other classes (and I’d argue condition Necromancer isn’t that great when compared to say Mesmers who can do this job better, faster, and easier).

I want other builds for the Necromancer to be viable. There are no other builds. Do you not see the problem? This one build you run with that seemed to work okay in your personal experience doesn’t mean the entire class is fine and balanced. Stop making these posts. You ran a 5-man dungeon and beat it? Good job bro that doesn’t mean it was you and you alone. For all we know you could have been carried. I am not saying you did but you see how this fails to prove that one build on the Necromancer is okay.

Funny Navi how you bring anecdotal evidences while complaining about me bringing it and worse, you are bringing baseless assumptions like when you claim that I play with random trash . Seriously if anything what you proved is that I wrote something bad and you did worse :you blamed for it while doing the same thing.

You showed theocrafting by saying other professions bring a full coverage of boons and conditions, if you played as much as you said you did, you would know that it just doesn’t happen.

Also to Aura, stop reducing conditionmancers to just bleeds. There’s much more than that. And really you should take time to read posts before posting garbage. Everything has been explained in my previous posts and I certainly won’t take time to repeat it to you.

Finally you guys can reroll whenever you want It seems the devs who have been playing this profession for years think it’s fine like I do. Also changes, if they come, are probably gonna be insignificant so bye !

Let me break this down for you

A)
1. You said all my opinion is based of theorycraft (even though I posted 0 theorycraft)
2. I said you are making baseless assumptions
3. You claim I make baseless assumptions of you playing with random trash, my assumption was actually based off of

“Also sorry, but you seem to be using just theorycrafting. However, I’m using my experience in dungeons (50 hours or so) and so far, it tells me that most people got damage builds and don’t bring any support at all and worse, they die constantly while bragging about the 6-10k crits they can’t land because they die so much.”

which tells me the players you play with are bad and most likely randoms. Unless you meant to imply that your friends are bad, which is fine in my books I suppose.

B) Again, no theorycraft. I am starting to think that you actually have no idea what theorycrafting is. I also never claimed that a single profession brings full buff coverage, I would never make such an idiotic statement.
I did, however, say that 5 profession can bring full boon coverage, which they can.

any mix of Engineer, Warrior, Guardian, elementelist, mesmer or ranger can provide almost if not full boon coverage to a party. the only sustainable boon necros can bring to a party is regeneration, which trumped by other professions to begin with. it’s not theorycraft it’s fact

@Sebyos – Stop trying to talk using logic with these people. They clearly do not want to hear how Necromancers can be played well and how to do so. They are just whining they do not have an “I win” button in PvP and have to work (maybe harder than other classes) at being good.

They do not care you are talking about PvE, they just want to whine about not being gods in PvP Arena mode (Spvp and Tpvp). They also Ignore any talk about how Necromancers can hold their own in WvW.

For some reason Spvp and Tpvp trump the other game modes and these people want to make Spvp and Tpvp the center of the game and balance all class for such. screw the other side. The PvE and WvW are not important, they have to have the “I Win” button in the Ekitten arena or the class is broken.