Guild Wars 2

hey, couple screen shots of just running around frostgorge. Some are on a champion mob others the vetren quaggans guarding him, its solo so im sure you realize in a group with more buffs the damage would be increased. Also notice how Flame blast hits for more based on might stacks and Vuln on the target, one shot has it at 823(which could be glancing) another at 1235 and another at around 1450. Enjoy oh and this was the typical play around spec of 30|15|0|0|25.

again on a random mob this time a quaggan.

And here is one on a champion mob

What does your build and equipment look like? I’ve always loved axe. So glad it was given some love.

yeah in pve looks great, but in wvsw has the same poor damage.
2 seconds of vunerability doesnt make the axe powerful

thats ashame, i have yet to enter mists since my 7 year old is making me a dang mist wolf in slvyari lands till she goes to bed =( and yeah the almost 50% less crit dmg from mists is kinda bleh. Will mess around with it over the next few days, swapping out bloodlust and force and see how high it can reach in pvp.

mrmadhaze.8706:

yeah in pve looks great, but in wvsw has the same poor damage.
2 seconds of vunerability doesnt make the axe powerful

Axe still has kitten sustained damage. Axe #2 didn’t need a buff — it was axe #1. Axe #1 could do with a 50% increase in damage.

Zenith.7301:

mrmadhaze.8706:

yeah in pve looks great, but in wvsw has the same poor damage.
2 seconds of vunerability doesnt make the axe powerful

Axe still has kitten sustained damage. Axe #2 didn’t need a buff — it was axe #1. Axe #1 could do with a 50% increase in damage.

yeah but if you read the forum now the axe seems a godlike weapon

skill#2 and #3 are good (also before the patch) but #1 is still useless..
poor damage, slow, don’t refull life force and ok there is vulnerability…. in a game with high condition removal
dagger is still > axe

but i repeat, in pve it’s good.

before the buff I was hitting for 5-7k on a regular basis in pve.
wvw was more like 4-6k damage.

So, they still insist on the Necro having one (bad) weapon with an autoattack that can hit multiple opponents…Meh

Axe #1 is still bullcrap compared to Ele Water Dagger #1
Axe #2 is still mediocre, channeled, single-target damage on a rather high cooldown – while the LF gain is worse than on Dagger’s autoattack rotation.

axe is great if you play a good axe necro. if u play axe like a dagger necro I would imagine you’d have some issues.
not saying you play a bad axe necro btw im just saying I get lots of kills when rolling with axe and always have enough LF .

Axe is fine as a swap weapon. It is still a bad choice for a condition build, an “okay” choice for a hybrid build, and a terribad choice for a main weapon. I don’t think that is necessarily a problem. The #1 is still too weak, but it is designed around being a “team based” skill. IE You take a necro to stack up vuln on a PVE mob etc. Problem is so many others do it better with more damage attached to it and AOE, like GS warriors.

Its ranged, so there is that. It is safe application of vuln. In WvW I don’t really get the complaints, you should be swapping weapon sets every 10 seconds anyhow, and the 2/3 skills are very good. Just don’t use axe one, problem solved. It works fine as a swap weapon in WvW if you run power, just not as a weapon you sit on all the time.

WvW necro here and I use axe/focus and I tear it up. Yes axe one is meh but everything else is good. Plus the longer duration on Vuln let’s you keep more stacks on a target when you use axe 2. You do need to build around useing axe and know that your not a burst spec like dagger so you need to have defense. If you go all burst with axe you will get killed because you can not get the same damage out of axe that you can dagger.

Did manage to hit over 10k today with 96% crit and 3500+ ( with might ) during grenth event, but still not that impressive for a 3sec channel 600 range non aoe skills ( lol warrior F1 rifle ).

Still wish they would make weapons being weapons like other classes instead of this weapon dmg + utility dmg = others dmg with no utility so we can start having a smoother experience with you know choices for what we want.

I was using axe before this patch and loving it. The 10% bonus damage increase just made my year lol not to mention focus got some love <3

Rennoko.5731:

Axe is fine as a swap weapon. It is still a bad choice for a condition build, an “okay” choice for a hybrid build, and a terribad choice for a main weapon. I don’t think that is necessarily a problem. The #1 is still too weak, but it is designed around being a “team based” skill. IE You take a necro to stack up vuln on a PVE mob etc. Problem is so many others do it better with more damage attached to it and AOE, like GS warriors.

Its ranged, so there is that. It is safe application of vuln. In WvW I don’t really get the complaints, you should be swapping weapon sets every 10 seconds anyhow, and the 2/3 skills are very good. Just don’t use axe one, problem solved. It works fine as a swap weapon in WvW if you run power, just not as a weapon you sit on all the time.

LOL .. a weapon with a skill#1 meh, that need “team work” but it’s worst if it’s you main set, that is good just for swapping, that just dont use skill1.. lol… wtf o.O

axe is still our worst choice, specially if you play in wvsw where if you replace vuln someone else use a remove condition.
Axe#1 could be really great in pvp if they give us or more power or more vulnerability stacks. Duration il meh of the meh
(im talking about organized wvsw with a guild. No spvp or pve and neither lolduel at mills in wvsw maps)

Not arguing axe is fine now. Just saying it is less terrible if you think about it as a swap-into weapon, and even borderline useful in PVE situations. The problem will always be that dagger signficiantly out does it for damage, and as long as someone else is around to keep vulnerability up on those PVE mobs, then its not worth taking over dagger, as 600 range is pretty close to in-the-face of most mobs. Also if you are conditions you have to take sceptor, so you going to drop staff for axe? Situational at best.

Axe is also used a good bit in S/TPVP, where everything is closer together. I know nothing of such things.

Just to be honest, I don’t ever think you are going to see axe be a premier WvW slot… sorry to say… much like the necro itself, which suffers in some facets of WvW.

Let’s preface this by saying that if you think Axe 1 is horrible damage than you should never use any weapon but dagger for auto attacks.

Having said that, Axe is not a sit and auto attack weapon. I swear I think that these forums are half filled with people who actually think things through and another half that run around like chickens with their heads cut off.

Why are you comparing a single slot damage such as dagger’s auto (if you are using dagger 2 for damage than you need to see a doctor) to Axe where you have two slots of damage abilities? I seriously think that half the people that play any video game formulate opinions without being subjective and asking themselves why this ability was programmed to be weaker than another ability.

Axe is not comparable to dagger. Axe is a good mid-range weapon with an auto attack designed to help top off vuln stacking before hitting Axe 2. It will never match Dagger Auto attack or it would be overpowered.

Dagger is more damage because it allows for more danger. See that’s what balance is. You see more risk – greater reward. The problem with axe prior was that the damage was low enough where dagger or staff were still preferred.

Comparing Axe 1 to any of our other weapons outside of scepter is ridiculous since it’s a completely different style of weapon.

@rennoko – Actually a lot of us despise staff, that we routinely run A/F and D/W over staff. Staff is pretty awful if you look at in terms of damage and don’t really like the fear on it. If you don’t trait for it, and only use it as a secondary source than it’s even worse.

I prefer D/W and A/F for MM and Power builds. For MM I run A/F main with D/W when I get someone in close. For Power I run D/W with A/F as my secondary to stack vuln if needed.

Bas hit it right on the head. Axe is a fantasitc weapon, you use another weap for auto attack then switch to axe and focus to burst.

It doesnt change anything… the patch is useless……
I would rather use my warrior instead….

In WvW its more useless…..“1 sec more fear is better”

I know staff seems bad when you look at damage but I think it was designed as a ranged weapon to support other group members.

1. Necrotic Grasp: projectile combo finisher – otherwise low damage and medium LF build up
2. Mark of Blood: regen for those near the target along with 3 long bleeds
3. Chillblains: chill, poison and poison field for #4 or anyone else that combos off it
4. Putrid Mark: condition transfer for those in the target area and blast finisher for use with Chillblains.
5. Reapers Mark: low damage interrupt that used to be awesome for interrupting boss attacks.

Looking at the other weapons available, it seems like the staff was made a little more to benefit fighters near the target. Mark of Blood can keep almost constant regen on the target area and can stack bleeds all by itself. For a weapon with a 1200 range, users in a group rarely end up using it to provide regen for themselves. That is why I think staff skills were designed almost as much for allies’ benefit. Reaper’s mark is less effective when used as a knock-back than when used as an interrupt. The Warrior’s Fear Me is a better knock-back because of the increased duration with decreased range. For Necromancer, a 1 second standard fear is not very useful for escape; hence the Fear build in Nemesis’ thread.

Staff in solo play is lame when not used as a ranged weapon to support group members or combo off but then that is why Necro has such variety in weapons. It is definitely inconvenient how staff’s upgrades are in Spite and Death Magic instead of Curses or Blood Magic where a party support build is more likely to make use of them. Why would staff buffs be placed in a MM build?

klesk.1790:

It doesnt change anything… the patch is useless……
I would rather use my warrior instead….

In WvW its more useless…..“1 sec more fear is better”

I don’t agree with you at all, well axe 1 is not a hard hitter like dagger I can still hit for 800 twice and add Vuln, Axe 2 is your big hitter and will drop people fast. Like I said before having the Vuln from axe 1 last longer also keeps more stacks on target well doing axe 2, so axe 2 really got double buffed. Coupled with spinal shivers and chill of death you can strip Boons, keep target chilled and keep them stacked with Vuln.

The axe is still our weakest weapon by a large margin.

It’s obviously worthless in a condition build, Staff and Scepter being the mainhands choice, but that would be fine if it did good direction damage. But even in Power builds, its damage is disappointing.

• Unless you have full Berserker’s gear and barely any condition damage (that means no Blood is Power), Rending Claws (Axe 1) does less DPS than the scepter’s autoattack chain.
• Necrotic Grasp (Staff 1) does more DPS than Ghastly Claws (Axe 2,) if you can hit two or more targets.
• As someone else mentioned, Rending Claws does less DPS than Vapor Blade (Ele Dagger Water 1), even though Vapor Blade has the same range, pierces, and can stack more vulnerability.

I have a hard time thinking of any reasonable situation in which you’d want to use the axe, even after the buffs. Even in a dedicated Power build, the staff has better LF generation, and both the staff and the scepter have better utility, range, and AoE. If you’re playing a Power build, fighting an boss that’s anti-melee, immune to conditions, and has no adds, then the axe might be your first choice. Everywhere else, it’s in desperate need of further buffs.

Even so most anti-melee bosses are 900-1200 range, look at tentacles at maw 600 range is within reach of it.

@bas wouldnt call axe a midrange weapon it’s more than melee range but less than the normal 900 midrange, so its at the awkward range.

If autoattack on axe is weak enough for people to say dont use its autoattack then yeah it needs some sort of buff, aoe , bounce to 3 people , cleaves 2 nearby the target for 70% of main dmg could possible even settle for axe mastery to be bumped down to
master slot and make it “axe skills now cleave , axe range increased to 900”.

Atleast something to work great when guardians aoe pull would be nice and the wells cd kinda ruins it.

Axe is still laughably bad in pve. Sustained damage is what makes or breakes good dps builds, even if you use axe as a swap for it’s #2 (which still is not even that awesome), you’ll have to try as hard as possible to do something useful instead of autoattacking before you are finally allowed to swap back.
And no, vulnerability as a side effect does not cut it. At all. For other classes, vulnerability comes as a mere side effect of other, better weapons which actually deal damage by themselves. Actually, that necros have to basically give up dealing damage just to get what others have as a passive pretty much is what I expected.

wintermute.4096:

Axe is still laughably bad in pve. Sustained damage is what makes or breakes good dps builds, even if you use axe as a swap for it’s #2 (which still is not even that awesome), you’ll have to try as hard as possible to do something useful instead of autoattacking before you are finally allowed to swap back.
And no, vulnerability as a side effect does not cut it. At all. For other classes, vulnerability comes as a mere side effect of other, better weapons which actually deal damage by themselves. Actually, that necros have to basically give up dealing damage just to get what others have as a passive pretty much is what I expected.

I think a lot of people misunderstand Necromancer’s axe. It is not a dps weapon but a condition application and channeling/LF generation weapon. Perhaps I am speculating but I suspect its original purpose was to compliment other members in the group or another weapon like main hand dagger or scepter. I used to think of it as more of an off-hand weapon that somehow got on the wrong hand. It stacks vulnerability pretty quickly and the channeling can be traited for +400 armor to counter its relatively short range. What was goofy about axe is that it got a damage buff placed at +30 Spite instead of somewhere else like, say, Death Magic but then that trait line is already full of traits for axe and minions.

Axe goes well with MM builds because it stacks vulnerability your minions can take advantage of. If you think of axe/focus like that, it makes more sense. With this second patch to increase axe damage, Arenanet is making axe more confusing to use because now it has substantial damage but the skills have not changed. Think of the axe as a croas between MH scepter and dagger designed for vulnerability stacking. I am trying it again to face-tank for my minions switching between axe/focus and dagger/dagger for two sets with channelling. (Good grief, we need a stability for that build! Maybe traiting for Fear will suffice but Reaper’s Protection is stuffed into our Death Magic trait line, too. It is not fair! The Death Magic line is too useful but traiting it makes us mob magnets and there are only 3 slots we can use!)

@Anchoku Then why doesnt other classes who stack vulnerability do LOW dmg aswell?

Death Shroud shouldnt have the huge impact it does on necro weapons skills it should be an advantage not a oh look that skill is weak but it generates lifeforce so its ok and its like that for most necro related things, also why we most likely will never see a proper functioning necro.

Axe mastery should never have been a grandmaster trait its crazy to have others get em early and not only do we have it at GM it also have to share slot with close to death making it even more pointless.

The 400 toughness doesnt make much sense either for a short ranged weapon so maybe axe was suppose to have been melee axe #3 also suggest this with the retaliation then again it also snares so well.

The minor adjustment they make to the class doesnt help and it need a bunch of bigger things to make it an enjoyable class to play but right now Death shroud is so fantastic a class mechanic that can almost destroy the entire class for the sake of balance > fun.

@Waizabi: I understand your PoV on axe but Necromancer was probably never meant to equal axe on another profession. Use axe to make minions more effective and channel. You are still a Necromancer. Arenanet dev’s would probably say something like, “Roll a Warrior if you want to play like one,” if not, “LtP.”

The original axe back in August, I thought, was little more than a condition support weapon. Scepter far outstripped it in damage and lots of other classes had access to vulnerability so boss fights did not need axe to max that condition stack.

This profession can be so confusing.

Did make a warrior because its just easier faster to do most things but i would rather play my necro. But there is like soooo many warriors its crazy, how about making some of the lesser attractive classes more fun to play.

Also got an engineer, tried vuln stacking nadespam ?

And minions being what they are (stubborn) dont even scale with any stats “looks at new ascended items” they slowly become more uselss than they are.

Confusing is one word for the class but i prefer horrible designed class with randomly placed traits that lacks any sort of synergy.

I agree, axe is definately for group situations (or MM same thing lol). I tried it out again last night and the comparison between dagger and axe damage is laughable. Dagger #1 evaporates health bars, its extremely strong dps when you bring it to bear. We have other range options, so axe really doesnt fill in any gaps. The vulnerability debuffs makes axe #2 hit harder but its a whole other magnitude less than dagger #1 still.

@wizabi – What other class stacks vulnerability while dealing high damage with that ability. The only class I can think of that does that is Engineer, and they have to trait full on for grenades to get that capability. We have that ability with zero traits.

If you think Warriors are way better you have yet to actually play one at end game. I have an 80 warrior, and your either glass cannon or banner warrior in pve, and in pvp you are either GS or nothing. They are roundly considered the worst class in tournaments and outside of shout heals and banners provide zero help or support in pvp.

Necros and Engineers are unique playstyles that require forgetting the way other classes play. Warriors don’t move faster they just have a flat learning curve. They are an easy beginner class that requires very little to do a bit, but once you learn how to play you see how quickly they are easily beaten.

Samhayn.2385:

WvW necro here and I use axe/focus and I tear it up. Yes axe one is meh but everything else is good. Plus the longer duration on Vuln let’s you keep more stacks on a target when you use axe 2. You do need to build around useing axe and know that your not a burst spec like dagger so you need to have defense. If you go all burst with axe you will get killed because you can not get the same damage out of axe that you can dagger.

you can “tear up” using any build in wvw, it’s just a massive zerg fest vs mostly up-leveld players.

Bas.7406:

@wizabi – What other class stacks vulnerability while dealing high damage with that ability. The only class I can think of that does that is Engineer, and they have to trait full on for grenades to get that capability. We have that ability with zero traits.

I realize you are saying warriors have other issues, like being in melee and being required to build zerker etc etc, but you can’t count out the fact that just on the surface looking at the GS skills versus the axe skills its sort of off-putting.

The GS stacks vulnerability slower, but deals more damage.. I guess you could say that is a fair tradeoff, but it also cleaves everything in melee range, which isn’t a fair tradeoff to 600 range on axe.

And mesmer sword 1/2 are both high damaging and apply vuln.

Looking at 3 seconds just off base damage (BASED OFF POSSIBLY WRONG TOOLTIPS):

Warrior GS = 1702 total damage over 6 swings (chain 3 doesn’t apply vuln) (4) vuln stacked
Necro Axe = 944 total damage over 4 double strikes for (8) vuln stacked
Mesmer Sword = 1480 total damage over 6 swings (chain 3 doesn’t apply vuln) (4) vuln stacked.

Now you can make the argument the mesmer sword is melee, and the vulnerability is shorter… but all three of their attacks cleave, which is a pretty big discrepancy for having 600 range as opposed to melee. Not to mention the aoe boon strip on their 3 chain.

The warrior vulnerability lasts longer than the necro version at 8 seconds to our 7 seconds (recently buffed up). They deal way more damage, and the cleave. Yes we stack more vuln and from 600, but… the discrepancy is huge. We also get no benifit from a strong ending 3 part chain on axe either (like both mesmer and warrior).

Vapor blade is definately the best comparison, as it deals 222 per attack (111 in and 111 out) per second with 6 seconds of vuln at 600 range. So over the course of 3 seconds they would deal 666 damage and stack 6 vuln. And it pierces target.

I believe if you look at all that is is not surprising the axe 1 is disliked so much. Though after the edit I just made, this feels more right on vapor blade, because it deals God awful damage on my ele. Point still stands in comparison to the other skills.

EDIT: Vapor blade numbers were off (tooltip noted as wrong in wiki). Apparently its only once per second instead of once per half second

Bas.7406:

@wizabi – What other class stacks vulnerability…….

Got 80 nec , war , engi

If you want vuln stacking the engi nadespam is the way to go and its 20+ stacks aoe 1500 range. Yes you have to spec for it pretty common thing to do in this game.

warrior is still quite good ½+½+½ 2x vuln 1.5sec vs 0.75+0.75 4x vuln 1.5sec add in warrior might on gs + 33% chance for vuln on crit and the fact its cleave and hurts like hell.

Why you start with the pvp balance when talking about vuln stacking im not really sure what to make of so well care to explain and also the part about warriors not moving faster.

wiazabi.2549:

Bas.7406:

@wizabi – What other class stacks vulnerability…….

Got 80 nec , war , engi

If you want vuln stacking the engi nadespam is the way to go and its 20+ stacks aoe 1500 range. Yes you have to spec for it pretty common thing to do in this game.

warrior is still quite good ½+½+½ 2x vuln 1.5sec vs 0.75+0.75 4x vuln 1.5sec add in warrior might on gs + 33% chance for vuln on crit and the fact its cleave and hurts like hell.

Why you start with the pvp balance when talking about vuln stacking im not really sure what to make of so well care to explain and also the part about warriors not moving faster.

Yes, nade spamming engineers are common, but it’s pretty much their only reliable build. However, there are not many engineers so you are good there.

In terms of warrior, it’s a slower applications fewer vuln stacks, and you have to be in melee.

Remember in terms of damage – melee is tops than 600 than 900 than 1200. 1200 range items typically (longbow ranger excluded) offer less damage per attack than a melee attack.

Sprawl.3891:

Samhayn.2385:

WvW necro here and I use axe/focus and I tear it up. Yes axe one is meh but everything else is good. Plus the longer duration on Vuln let’s you keep more stacks on a target when you use axe 2. You do need to build around useing axe and know that your not a burst spec like dagger so you need to have defense. If you go all burst with axe you will get killed because you can not get the same damage out of axe that you can dagger.

you can “tear up” using any build in wvw, it’s just a massive zerg fest vs mostly up-leveld players.

I don’t Zerg. I roam. It’s ok if you don’t beleave me it’s the interwebs after all.

That said me and my friend who plays a support d/d ele dropped an 8 person group last night. I don’t think axe is weak I think mid range weapon s in general are weaker then They need to be but that’s a different issue. This patch was a huge step in the right direction thou.

I never thought I would use this childish term, but for a lack of better terminology, a lot of you need to “l2p” with axe or stop using it altogether. It’s an amazing weapon and the buffs we got were a step in the right direction for it thats for sure. I do agree #1 is a bit sluggish, but it still works fine. Would I like a cleave on #1? Yeah but doesn’t mean we need it for axe to be good. I’m not even spec’d for power on my main necro and I’m still hitting impressive numbers with it, and thanks to Bas and some others I’ve started believing in my little dead pets again and using it with them. I just had a bone fiend hit a 6k crit today thanks to max vuln stacks from my axe/focus. And I was still channeling out some impressive numbers while he did it. So no, axe is not trash it’s great. but it’s not for every build. If you find it’s not working for you, don’t use it. But if you want to use it, l2p it properly first instead of running to the forums and complaining about it. Now if you’ll excuse me I have to go sanitize my brain with copious amount of booze to forget i used that kitten term. lolz

Bas.7406:

@wizabi – What other class stacks vulnerability while dealing high damage with that ability. The only class I can think of that does that is Engineer, and they have to trait full on for grenades to get that capability. We have that ability with zero traits.

Plenty of classes can stack vulnerability. If you think the axe is doing “high damage,” you’re not looking at it objectively.

Consider a standard single-target damage rotation on the axe: Ghastly Claws, Rending Claws (x6), repeat around every 10.5 seconds. Counting all hits, Rending Claws has a damage coefficient of 0.7, and Ghastly Claws (with the new patch) has a damage coefficient of around 2.9. So for the whole rotation, you’re getting a 7.1 multiplier every 10.5 seconds. Let’s be generous and assume you’re maintaining 12 stacks of vulnerability, to bring it up to 7.95, or about 0.76 per second.

Now compare that to an Elementalist doing nothing but spamming Vapor Blade, which has the same range as Rending Claws and can stack vulnerability faster. 1 second rotation, 0.66 damage coefficient, with the same vulnerability bonus: 0.74 per second. The axe’s optimal single-target damage rotation barely does more damage than an Ele does doing nothing but spamming Dagger Water 1. And Vapor Blade pierces, so consider two or more targets, and the axe gets left in the dust. If you’re thinking that Water Eles are not known as damage powerhouses, you would be correct.

Vulnerability is valuable in groups, don’t get me wrong, but it’s not an excuse for terrible solo damage. I want the axe to be good, but it’s not gonna get there if people are pretending it doesn’t need more buffs.

Too much theory crafting in this thread and not enough actual experience. Was seeing the same stuff when I started playing my ele and everyone said d/d was terrible and staff was the only viable build. Look how that turned out.

I’ve been playing an axe centric build in spvp for the last couple days and it’s awesome. It’s not an easy build to play, but if you pull it off, you have some really impressive damage and utility while still being pretty tanky. I’m not even good with a necro as I’ve always played ele, and I’m still doing work.

I’m not saying axe is the best weapon in the game and everyone should immediately rebuild to axe power, but to say it’s not viable or even bad is flat out incorrect.

Zahmahkibo.6375:

Plenty of classes can stack vulnerability. If you think the axe is doing “high damage,” you’re not looking at it objectively..

That wasn’t his statement at all. You completely misread our entire discussion. He said lots of classes can stack vulnerability while dealing more damage. That’s just not true only one class can, and they have to specifically trait for it. The other two classes that can stack vulnerability while doing damage either have to be in melee or whose weapon does less damage, but can hit multiple targets.

Just because you have access to vulnerability doesn’t mean you can stack it. ONly two classes have a weapon that inherently stacks vulnerability quickly. The ele with water dagger (less damage better aoe crappy targeting) and the Necro axe. The others cannot come close to stacking it as fast or they have to be in melee or trait specifically for that.

Axe + Skale Venom = more stacks of vulnerabilty + perma weakness if traited with http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Withering_Precision

Bas.7406:

Just because you have access to vulnerability doesn’t mean you can stack it. ONly two classes have a weapon that inherently stacks vulnerability quickly. The ele with water dagger (less damage better aoe crappy targeting) and the Necro axe. The others cannot come close to stacking it as fast or they have to be in melee or trait specifically for that.

It’s true that only the Ele dagger and Necro axe have ranged 1-slot skills that apply vulnerability, but that’s not an advantage. It requires a lot of upkeep to maintain the stacks, time that could be spent on otherwise stronger abilities. Classes with vulnerability on their other weapon skills, which generally have longer cooldowns but apply more stacks at once, can maintain the debuffs while actually doing decent individual damage.

If you’re using a rotation of Ghastly Claws, Rending Claws x7 (which is less damage but more vulnerability than x6) you’ll wobble between 7 and 12 stacks, averaging around 10. That’s nothing special.

• An Ele with a scepter can maintain 16-20 stacks in an aoe on multiple targets by using Shatterstone on cooldown, which only requires about half of their active time in water attunement. If the Ele wants to use other attunements, they can spend only half their time in water and still average around 10 stacks.
• A Ranger with a longbow can average around 7 stacks using Hunter’s Shot, while doing more damage, both single target and aoe, from longer range.

The above comparisons are under optimal conditions for the necro. The more time the necro spends in Death Shroud, using utilities, avoiding damage, etc. the less vulnerability they can maintain, until they’re adding no more than, say, a rifle Warrior with Brutal Shot.

Maybe the axe is fine in sPvP, that’s not my area. In PvE, though, it should be clear that the damage is sub-par, and the vulnerability stacking isn’t enough to compensate.

I love how the argument is about axe’s number 1 ability and others about an entire rotation of attunements and other crap. In case you have not realized necromancers have alot of other abilities that cause vulnerability. Well of Power, Focus #4 slot (which on a single target hits x3 for 4% each, which is 12 by itself) Let us just leave well of power the AOE ability out of this since its aoe vuln just like the ele. But opening up on a boss for example, focus #4 12 stacks in 2 seconds, axe #2. auto attk your looking at 16-20 stacks by yourself with not even having to use any utilitles, and while axe #2 is on CD you can use a utility then quickly go back to focus #4 then repeat keeping at least 16-20 stacks yourself….What you people dont seem to understand is for the Necromancer its small things added together for one big thing. People always complain about how 100 blades hits for 30k when warriors pop all the cd’s and what not and necros can’t reach crits that high. Well of power, Dagger auto attkx3, In and out of deathshroud at the same time for higher crit and application of automatic Enfeebling blood, is easily 25k+ in seconds geared in the same as a warrior, the only major difference is Quickness which we dont get, but I would take condition application and alteration mastery over a simple cut and dry damage class. Another grype of mine is the conditionmancers saying their better then power when the only difference is bleed and posion dmg. Power necro’s have access to every single condition that they have but their spike dmg is greater while their dps is better due to unalterable condtion dmg(i say unalterable because its a flat dmg based on your setup) Stop looking at the class like a simple warrior. We are built differnetly for a reason. Is axe 1’s damage crap, yes, but I have no problems and very rarely ever use it for 2-3 more swings in between Cd’s and dodging or swapping to my other weapon set up. If you dont like axe then man up and get in melee range and use dagger. Its an entirely different beast. As always, happy hunting.

Samhayn.2385:

Sprawl.3891:

Samhayn.2385:

WvW necro here and I use axe/focus and I tear it up. Yes axe one is meh but everything else is good. Plus the longer duration on Vuln let’s you keep more stacks on a target when you use axe 2. You do need to build around useing axe and know that your not a burst spec like dagger so you need to have defense. If you go all burst with axe you will get killed because you can not get the same damage out of axe that you can dagger.

you can “tear up” using any build in wvw, it’s just a massive zerg fest vs mostly up-leveld players.

I don’t Zerg. I roam. It’s ok if you don’t beleave me it’s the interwebs after all.

That said me and my friend who plays a support d/d ele dropped an 8 person group last night. I don’t think axe is weak I think mid range weapon s in general are weaker then They need to be but that’s a different issue. This patch was a huge step in the right direction thou.

To be objective, if you won a 2v8, the weapon choice wasn’t the reason you won. Especially considering axe is one of the weakest AOE weapons and since each of you had to pick up and kill 4 targest, that isn’t optimal. Not to be rude, but you have to accept that horrible players in the 8 side of that occasion were the real reason. Or maybe it was 6 up levels and 2 80s. In either case – not the axe.

On a side note, above someone mentioned their bone fiend critting for 6k on xplode? That is some big damage for those little guys. I tend to avoid them because they are always D’ing around away from my target when I need them, and the explosion radius never seems to be big enough compared to my other aoes.

Perhaps someone can educate me on the explosion: Does it get a power component in its damage? Apparently it benifits from crit/crit damage. I always remember it hitting for 1.8k historically and not critting, but again that was from the 2-3 times I used them and paid close attention. Since the wiki lists base damage in the 1500’s, I guess they do get a power component?

Yes, my base explosion is 2500 undertool tip with 150% crit your looking at 6200 ish, its entirely possiable. I tend to use them alot if there are alot of rogues in the sPvP map since i can explode them when they go invis and they get the brunt of the damage. Everything has its uses =)

Slagburst.5304:

Yes, my base explosion is 2500 undertool tip with 150% crit your looking at 6200 ish, its entirely possiable. I tend to use them alot if there are alot of rogues in the sPvP map since i can explode them when they go invis and they get the brunt of the damage. Everything has its uses =)

Interesting, so even though minion damage is static, the explosion does scale with power. Thats pretty cool. Makes them a must have on a power build for burst… Too bad I can’t just force them to stand beside me at all times so I could have that damage as PBAOE.

Slagburst.5304:

But opening up on a boss for example, focus #4 12 stacks in 2 seconds, axe #2. auto attk your looking at 16-20 stacks by yourself with not even having to use any utilitles, and while axe #2 is on CD you can use a utility then quickly go back to focus #4 then repeat keeping at least 16-20 stacks yourself….

That’s great, but using a focus doesn’t require you to use an axe. You could run a dagger/focus or dagger/scepter, keep up some vulnerability and do more damage yourself.

Rennoko.5731:

Interesting, so even though minion damage is static, the explosion does scale with power. Thats pretty cool. Makes them a must have on a power build for burst… Too bad I can’t just force them to stand beside me at all times so I could have that damage as PBAOE.

The minion detonation ability doesn’t scale with power. The base damage is pretty good at level 80, and it can crit, but your stats have no effect on the tooltip.

Explode a bone minion.

Damage: 1,592
Radius: 240
Combo Finisher: Blast

Does the in game tooltip show something else? The guy above me mentioned his tooltip said 2500. I have no idea what the tooltip says in game as I am at work right now.

My tooltip says the same, that was my fault. Tested it without 30% minion dmg it crit for 4300. WIth the 30% increase to damage it was 5500 on average. And this was an argument about axe’s pathetic vuln stacking, i was just stating that combined with other abilites it adds to the overall ability of vuln. I never said u cant stack it with a dagger and focus.