Guild Wars 2

Quick reference to the necromancer patch notes for you……. "" ""We feel that necromancers have been faring quite well gamewide, providing play and counterplay in many spots over the last few months. In addition to a couple of minor bug fixes, we wanted to improve the viability of necromancer power builds, which have been somewhat lacking in presence.
Rending Claws: The damage of this ability has been increased by 15%.
Ghastly Claws: The damage of this ability has been increased by 13%.
Unholy Feast: The number of boons converted to conditions has been increased from 1 to 2.
Fading Twilight: The aftercast of this ability has been reduced by 0.11 seconds.
Chilling Scythe: The aftercast of this ability has been reduced by 0.06 seconds.
Death Spiral: The damage of this ability has been increased by 66%.
Blood Is Power: The recharge time of this ability has been reduced from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only.
Signet of Vampirism: When the Signets of Suffering trait is equipped, this skill will no longer corrupt boons on players who evade it.
Lich Form—Jagged Horrors: These minions will no longer lose health over time and will instead die 30 seconds after they’re summoned""""…..

So with the Axe buffs. Do you think we will see Axe replacing Gs or dagger in power builds? Of course we need to play with the numbers a bit, but I’m excited to get home and out the Axe to the dps test and see what comes of it. The faster attack speed with the %buffs could be enough to push it a little higher on the dps list. I don’t think we’ll see dagger being replaced because of the life siphon and dps above 50%health

If you’re talking about PvE, no, it’s still worse, even with unholy fervor equipped.

Don’t underestimate that 0.11/0.06 aftercast reduction! The effect is huge. It’s comparable to the former thief 1h-sword aftercast reductions.

GS auto feels way more responsive now. Off course it is still too slow to hit ultramobile builds like the typical thief, but there is definitely an improvement. Even in PvE – where mobs don’t run around – it just feels better and that means more fun to use.

Due to the faster auto chain the GS DPS should also be a bit higher.

I love the Axe buffs. Nothing more to say here.

Regarding competitive play...

Problem: power necro is not viable due in large part to trash-tier sustain
Solution: buff axe damage

I feel like this disparity can only be adequately articulated by the peerless eloquence of John Madden...his voice was in my head as I read the necro notes, bams and booms included.

Greatsword in pvp still has the same problems it had before and no damage increase for death spiral or aftercast time reduction to the auto will change this.

Axe is interesting though i doubt it will be better then our condi builds.

KrHome.1920:

Don’t underestimate that 0.11/0.06 aftercast reduction! The effect is huge. It’s comparable to the former thief 1h-sword aftercast reductions.

GS auto feels way more responsive now. Off course it is still too slow to hit ultramobile builds like the typical thief, but there is definitely an improvement. Even in PvE – where mobs don’t run around – it just feels better and that means more fun to use.

Due to the faster auto chain the GS DPS should also be a bit higher.

I love the Axe buffs. Nothing more to say here.

I didn’t manage to break 20k dps on the golem when it died with realistic buffs and superior sharpening stones/truffle steak using D/F + GS, though to be fair I’ve been awake for almost two days now so my rotations weren’t as on point as they should be and I don’t have + Power infusions either. So if someone wants to go test properly, I’d be very glad to see some more results.

My tests on Golem give about 4% increase on GS and 8% increase on A/F.

GS3 is still out of DPS rotation.

So, of course, Axe is still not competitive, while GS probably reaches DPS of several other classes (who are out of raids too)

KrHome.1920:

Don’t underestimate that 0.11/0.06 aftercast reduction! The effect is huge. It’s comparable to the former thief 1h-sword aftercast.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but that aftercast reduction only amounts to around 6% more damage* on an attack that is replaced by Gravedigger spam below 50% where we supposedly do "OP" damage yet still outDPS’d by AFK thieves spamming nothing but dagger auto**.

* 1.27 vs 1.2 CPS
** 1.65 vs 1.64 CPS, but remember that thieves have more damage modifiers than we do.

Insidion the Insane.9752:

* 1.27 vs 1.2 CPS
** 1.65 vs 1.64 CPS, but remember that thieves have more damage modifiers than we do.

What’s that? Gravedigger spam is 1 attack per 2 seconds, so shouldn’t it be 1.5 CPS?

AndyS.5630:

Insidion the Insane.9752:

• 1.27 vs 1.2 CPS
  • 1.65 vs 1.64 CPS, but remember that thieves have more damage modifiers than we do.

What’s that? Gravedigger spam is 1 attack per 2 seconds, so shouldn’t it be 1.5 CPS?

Because GS has 10% more weapon damage than daggers.

Yea Axe still not competitive. Rip. Axe needs to become useful on something before I finish astralaria (I don’t play Berserker)

I’m not a fan of axe for necro, and these minor axe buffs don’t change that. I would prefer to see buffs to MH dagger instead.

I took Axe and GS for a spin today in unranked pvp. I mean it’s unranked, yet they’re still not competitive and they still give crappy results.

To the posters who quoted me:

I play WvW Roaming / sPvP 99% of my time. Should have mentioned this…

The DPS part of my posting was just a sidenote. To be honest, I don’t care about these things.

I messed around with Axe/Wh+GS combo in WvW today and it works miles better than pre-patch. GS is simply more reliable now. The only reason I still prefer D/Wh+Axe/Focus is the 1.200 Focus range.

So I am pretty happy with the patch. But I guess I will delete my Revenant (and create a DH or Warr to give it the ascended gear). This class is in a ridiculous state. Even my Power Reaper facerolls it now.

Spiteful Spirit/Unholy Feast actually looks really good for WvW now. I was already a big fan of Spiteful Spirit for power necro and turning into an instant-cast 2-boon corrupt on entering Death Shroud isn’t small.

The damage increases to Axe skills are nice, but I think they may fundamentally miss the issues of power Necro/Reaper. We don’t need tools that allow us to deal more damage from range as a power necro; we need tools that will keep us alive and unstunned in the melee.

Greatsword aftercasts being reduced is good. The Death Spiral change seems pointless for PvP, but combined with the autoswing reductions, Greatsword may be a contender for PvE DPS.

Sarrs.4831:

Spiteful Spirit/Unholy Feast actually looks really good for WvW now. I was already a big fan of Spiteful Spirit for power necro and turning into an instant-cast 2-boon corrupt on entering Death Shroud isn’t small.

The damage increases to Axe skills are nice, but I think they may fundamentally miss the issues of power Necro/Reaper. We don’t need tools that allow us to deal more damage from range as a power necro; we need tools that will keep us alive and unstunned in the melee.

Greatsword aftercasts being reduced is good. The Death Spiral change seems pointless for PvP, but combined with the autoswing reductions, Greatsword may be a contender for PvE DPS.

Mhh though i think the gs auto now does more dps then the dagger auto. The CPS of dagger auto is 1.33 and with the aftercast reduction the sequence of the gs auto should be less then 2.9 (the old one is 3 sec) giving atleast 1.24 CPS but gs does 10% more damage then dagger so you can muliplicate 1.1 to the CPS for the damage comparison which would be more then1.36. But that just taking the numbers from the wiki.

Muchacho.2390:

Mhh though i think the gs auto now does more dps then the dagger auto. The CPS of dagger auto is 1.33 and with the aftercast reduction the sequence of the gs auto should be less then 2.9 (the old one is 3 sec) giving atleast 1.24 CPS but gs does 10% more damage then dagger so you can muliplicate 1.1 to the CPS for the damage comparison which would be more then1.36. But that just taking the numbers from the wiki.

GS auto also applies chills which, if you are traited for them, will activate Deathly Chill and Chilling Nova without needing another source.

You’ll also be able to weave in GD, Death Spiral and Nightfall, though I’m not sure if Death Spiral is an increase over auto even with the damage buff.

Sarrs.4831:

snip

Just sucks that power necro as a whole is not a contender for PvE dps.

As an aside, Ghastly Claws now does more damage than Gravedigger when you land the full channel.

Sarrs.4831:

Muchacho.2390:

Mhh though i think the gs auto now does more dps then the dagger auto. The CPS of dagger auto is 1.33 and with the aftercast reduction the sequence of the gs auto should be less then 2.9 (the old one is 3 sec) giving atleast 1.24 CPS but gs does 10% more damage then dagger so you can muliplicate 1.1 to the CPS for the damage comparison which would be more then1.36. But that just taking the numbers from the wiki.

GS auto also applies chills which, if you are traited for them, will activate Deathly Chill and Chilling Nova without needing another source.

You’ll also be able to weave in GD, Death Spiral and Nightfall, though I’m not sure if Death Spiral is an increase over auto even with the damage buff.

Well i think the new CPS for deathspiral should be around 1.5 and with that it would be worth casting over the auto.

Though it is kinda sad that gs was merely buffed for pve. For pvp it needs more then damage.

meeflak.9714:

Quick reference to the necromancer patch notes for you……. "" ""We feel that necromancers have been faring quite well gamewide, providing play and counterplay in many spots over the last few months. In addition to a couple of minor bug fixes, we wanted to improve the viability of necromancer power builds, which have been somewhat lacking in presence.
Rending Claws: The damage of this ability has been increased by 15%.
Ghastly Claws: The damage of this ability has been increased by 13%.
Unholy Feast: The number of boons converted to conditions has been increased from 1 to 2.
Fading Twilight: The aftercast of this ability has been reduced by 0.11 seconds.
Chilling Scythe: The aftercast of this ability has been reduced by 0.06 seconds.
Death Spiral: The damage of this ability has been increased by 66%.
Blood Is Power: The recharge time of this ability has been reduced from 30 seconds to 20 seconds in PvP only.
Signet of Vampirism: When the Signets of Suffering trait is equipped, this skill will no longer corrupt boons on players who evade it.
Lich Form—Jagged Horrors: These minions will no longer lose health over time and will instead die 30 seconds after they’re summoned""""…..

So with the Axe buffs. Do you think we will see Axe replacing Gs or dagger in power builds? Of course we need to play with the numbers a bit, but I’m excited to get home and out the Axe to the dps test and see what comes of it. The faster attack speed with the %buffs could be enough to push it a little higher on the dps list. I don’t think we’ll see dagger being replaced because of the life siphon and dps above 50%health

No and No
Dagger will always deal the most dps on necro unless they nerf its ratios

Secondly none of these things address the real problems that have necros pushed into the corner. This class is bottom of the barrel now.
I would like to ask Robert why he has yet to do anything about fixing base shroud or utility within shroud options. Why these options are not being patched in for a chance during these balance changes.

You dont want to change too much at once so the better option is to just never let players try it and see how broken or how not broken it is?
Yet in the past we have seen other professions get these massive changes that otherwise people would agree are broken and some how are still currently in the game and being adjusted.
Necros never get that chance :c
This class will be dead till the next elite spec or when base nerco sees a major update. Till then its time to wrap it up.

Put the chill on n1 gs. Add stab to n4 for the duration of the shadows.

When I read “power buffs” I was instantly excited, only to be crushed seconds later. Really won’t affect much for me at all. I was also hoping for some regular Shroud love, or Staff auto reworks.

In fact, some minor GS and Axe (lol) buffs hardly compensate for the condi nerf, and I don’t even play condi necro. Especially since they didn’t do anything to GS auto, which afaik, is the reason why the majority of people don’t bother with it anyway.

It’s painful how often the balance team misses the entire point of where a class is struggling. Reading the Engineer patch notes almost hurts physically.

honestly it doesn’t feel any different. These changes feel arbitrary and minor to the point that they are barely noticable.

Just a bone tossed to the necro after they gutted the condi builds.

Axe will never compete with the highest DPS power builds you can get on a Necro, simply because it’s part of that lost child class of weapons that do midrange damage. It’s the same for Axe on Ranger. Sort of good, but not the best, not the worst. So no, I don’t think it will replace dagger or GS.

That being said, It becomes an even more compelling weapon to support DPS builds … I am enjoying the noticeably more damage the axe does and the boost I get on my reaper build having it as my chosen ranged weapon.

Try swapping staff for axe, not dagger or greatsword for axe.

Axe has less utility but is fair enough as a ranged weapon when AoE is not necessary.

Axe has no…

• Fields for combo’s.
• Power AoE / cleave.
• Hard CC.
• Block / immunity.
• Mobility skill.

What axe does have is…

• Ranged power.
• LF generation.
• Boon corruption.
• Retaliation, cripple, and vulnerability for whatever use players can get of it.

My thoughts on this balance patch:
greatsword: They really must have pulled out all the stops here. A 0.06 and 0.11 second aftercast reduction. Fantastic 0.06 seconds faster to your chill and 0.11 seconds to your gravedigger after the chill.
Axe: because extra boon corruption is exactly what necro needed the most.
Blood is power: We don’t need enemies we can now kill ourselves even faster with this 33% cooldown. Now combine this with master of corruption and we can apply four stacks of condition and to our enemy and ourselves ever 13.3 seconds. Which is faster then any transfer skill in the game so now we have synergy with 2 transfer skills instead of one.
Jagged horrors: because Lich condi builds are so overpowered and it is not that actual minion builds synergies with healing the minions.
Conclusion: great job. Couldn’t have done it better
/sarcasm

Tim.6450:

My thoughts on this balance patch:
greatsword: They really must have pulled out all the stops here. A 0.06 and 0.11 second aftercast reduction. Fantastic 0.06 seconds faster to your chill and 0.11 seconds to your gravedigger after the chill.
Axe: because extra boon corruption is exactly what necro needed the most.
Blood is power: We don’t need enemies we can now kill ourselves even faster with this 33% cooldown. Now combine this with master of corruption and we can apply four stacks of condition and to our enemy and ourselves ever 13.3 seconds. Which is faster then any transfer skill in the game so now we have synergy with 2 transfer skills instead of one.
Jagged horrors: because Lich condi builds are so overpowered and it is not that actual minion builds synergies with healing the minions.
Conclusion: great job. Couldn’t have done it better
/sarcasm

Bravo could not have said it better….likely angrier but not better. I think Anet needs to force devs to play each build for each class and then come to the table for balancing. Necro balancing right now is like bringing your car to a brain surgeon and asking him what the rattle is in the front passenger side, then having him advise the mechanic on what exactly needs repairing lol!

Axe is decent as a weapon; has good burst potential, plays well with others, and has cooldowns that line up well with weapon-swapping and entering Shroud. The major functional issue with Axe is simply the fact that it deals very poorly with melee pressure, so if you get aggressed on with minimal Life Force and no friends around, then you’re in for a rough time. That said, you can just swap to a second weapon set like Dagger or GS and start pressuring your opponent right back. This tends to highlight a separate issue with playing Power: You always lack something. If you try to play A/F+GS, then you lack a reliable way of dealing with melee pressure on your own due to slow cast times and facing restrictions, while also having questionable condition control. If you play D/X+Staff, then you lack a reliable method of dealing with ranged pressure.

As for Greatsword, I’m still a fan of the weapon for my own pet reasons, but they still have yet to fix what in my opinion is its only major flaw: The aftercast on Gravedigger is too long. It’s exceptionally clunky to cast and chain. Otherwise, I honestly don’t have large complaints about the weapon aside from how generally bad its Master trait is.

ZDragon.3046:

meeflak.9714:

So with the Axe buffs. Do you think we will see Axe replacing Gs or dagger in power builds? Of course we need to play with the numbers a bit, but I’m excited to get home and out the Axe to the dps test and see what comes of it. The faster attack speed with the %buffs could be enough to push it a little higher on the dps list. I don’t think we’ll see dagger being replaced because of the life siphon and dps above 50%health

No and No
Dagger will always deal the most dps on necro unless they nerf its ratios

While with full raid buffs Axe isn’t competitive, if you run only your personal buffs/debuffs against kitty golem, A/F, D/F and GS are all within 5% of each other (D/WH isn’t considered because personal source of Vulnerability is needed)

Full buffs change it due to inactivating Death’s Embrace, Siphoned Power (proc the most with Axe, the least with GS), losing benefit of Vulnerability from Axe autos, while letting GS drop Death Spiral which is still a DPS loss (especially after 50%).

Apparently dealing with those two traits can not only make Power Necro DPS competitive, but make it competitive with several weapons at once.

Obtena.7952:

Axe will never compete with the highest DPS power builds you can get on a Necro, simply because it’s part of that lost child class of weapons that do midrange damage.

If being within 5% with only self-buffs isn’t competing, I don’t know what is.

So, new Power Coefficients for Death Spiral, Rending Claws, and Ghastly Claws.

Death Spiral (Greatsword 3): 1.5
Rending Claws: .88
Ghastly Claws: 3.6

For reference, Rapid Fire is a 3.75 coefficient. Gravedigger is 3.0.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, new Power Coefficients for Death Spiral, Rending Claws, and Ghastly Claws.

Death Spiral (Greatsword 3): 1.5
Rending Claws: .88
Ghastly Claws: 3.6

For reference, Rapid Fire is a 3.75 coefficient. Gravedigger is 3.0.

Did you test the numbers? Because if the numbers on the patchlog are correct ghastly claws should be 3.25 not 3.6.

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, new Power Coefficients for Death Spiral, Rending Claws, and Ghastly Claws.

Death Spiral (Greatsword 3): 1.5
Rending Claws: .88
Ghastly Claws: 3.6

For reference, Rapid Fire is a 3.75 coefficient. Gravedigger is 3.0.

Did you test the numbers? Because if the numbers on the patchlog are correct ghastly claws should be 3.25 not 3.6.

Ran them through the standard formula using my Power, weapon damage, and tooltip damage.

It’s possible the wiki was never updated after the prior buff.

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Muchacho.2390:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

So, new Power Coefficients for Death Spiral, Rending Claws, and Ghastly Claws.

Death Spiral (Greatsword 3): 1.5
Rending Claws: .88
Ghastly Claws: 3.6

For reference, Rapid Fire is a 3.75 coefficient. Gravedigger is 3.0.

Did you test the numbers? Because if the numbers on the patchlog are correct ghastly claws should be 3.25 not 3.6.

Ran them through the standard formula using my Power, weapon damage, and tooltip damage.

It’s possible the wiki was never updated after the prior buff.

Well it seems the wiki really wasnt updated. Ingame i get roughly the same number then you got.

AndyS.5630:

Obtena.7952:

Axe will never compete with the highest DPS power builds you can get on a Necro, simply because it’s part of that lost child class of weapons that do midrange damage.

If being within 5% with only self-buffs isn’t competing, I don’t know what is.

Axe is within 5% of the highest Necro DPS builds? Nice … when did you do that calculation?

Obtena.7952:

AndyS.5630:

Obtena.7952:

Axe will never compete with the highest DPS power builds you can get on a Necro, simply because it’s part of that lost child class of weapons that do midrange damage.

If being within 5% with only self-buffs isn’t competing, I don’t know what is.

Axe is within 5% of the highest Necro DPS builds? Nice … when did you do that calculation?

When I tried around with Axe with GS with realistic raid buffs (no alacrity) I think I ended up at around 16-17k, Dagger with GS was 19k+

That was while I was extremely tired though, so my rotations weren’t perfect (also only truffle steak, no seaweed salad). It is kind of close, but in real scenarios things always look a bit different, as usual.

//that’s when also taking the axe trait (unholy fervor) in spite, but that should go without saying.

Obtena.7952:

Axe is within 5% of the highest Necro DPS builds? Nice … when did you do that calculation?

That’s what you get without the raid buffs right now. It clearly has its niche. It’s very good at applying Vulnerability if your party doesn’t have enough of it.

Axe feels pretty legitimate as a power weapon except for when a boss has near a 25-stack of vulnerability and its condition application loses all value. This is the same old story.

Axe should have an extra bonus such that critical hits to a target with a full stack of vulnerability also have a chance to inflict another bonus like…

• … Another condition that affects break-bars.
• … A projectile finisher.
• … A combo field.
• … A reduction of minion skill cool downs.

Anchoku.8142:

Axe feels pretty legitimate as a power weapon except for when a boss has near a 25-stack of vulnerability and its condition application loses all value. This is the same old story.

Axe should have an extra bonus such that critical hits to a target with a full stack of vulnerability also have a chance to inflict another bonus like…

• … Another condition that affects break-bars.
• … A projectile finisher.
• … A combo field.
• … A reduction of minion skill cool downs.

You could say that about any vuln stacking weapon though to be honest.

^

These other weapons come to mind as primary vulnerability stackers.
Warrior’s greatsword
Revy’s sword
Mesmer’s sword

I still think vuln application should be reduced across the board while giving necro some sort of advantage in regards to it, especially considering getting 25 stacks of vuln requires basically no effort at all and is a ridiculous damage boost.

Conditions and boons, in general, could be scaled back but vulnerability and might, for example, are tricky because each stack has the same value – it is a linear equation.

- Reduce capability to stack might and vulnerability and there is little benefit to them playing solo.

- Increasing stack limits on bosses means the bosses will need countermeasures, which becomes a PvE balance activity.

Been running alternate Axe for quite some time, and I think it’s a great weapon. Pair it with OH dagger and you have two boon corruptions, AoE weakness, ranged condi transfer + blind, burst/burst LF gain, and vuln on AA. Mix with GS, and you have good burst and utility from A/D paired with the pull and blind/dark field + more vuln stacking to make a mean switch-hitter combo build with Reaper shroud.

Lahmia.2193:

You could say that about any vuln stacking weapon though to be honest.

Which is simply every Necromancer power weapon that deals some damage. Mind Death’s Embrace trait.