Guild Wars 2

I’m 80 on my Necro but undecided whether to go Power or Cond…

So, any fellow necros who wvw could advise me? (I like both small group and zerg roaming)

This question is asked quite often, with varying opinions on the subject. If you dig back through this forum a bit you’ll probably find some detailed discussions.

My views on the matter and general rule of thumb …

Solo/Small group = Condition Damage
Large group/Zerg = Power

Liquid.9672:

This question is asked quite often, with varying opinions on the subject. If you dig back through this forum a bit you’ll probably find some detailed discussions.

My views on the matter and general rule of thumb …

Solo/Small group = Condition Damage
Large group/Zerg = Power

What this guy said. A lot of Nemesis fanboys will tell you condition damage for large group/zerg fights but it’s not as effective as a power build. So for solo roaming or small groups go with condition damage with epidemic. For large groups and general zerging definitely go power build. I have plenty of large group fight videos on my youtube channel using a very effective power build.

It comes down to personal preference. Which one has a playstyle you like more. My suggestion is to buy a set of Rare armor for each and give each a try for a while. If you decide you hate one set or the other, use a Master (or Black Lion) Salvage Kit on the armor you don’t want. You should average an Ecto about 90% of the time which can really help recoup your losses (if you bought the sets via buy orders, you can even MAKE a bit of money this way sometimes). Then you can start working on an exotic set for whichever build you end up liking.

And I’d actually disagree with the previous two posters about which is best where.

Condi Necros have a few major advantages in zergs. Epidemic is ungodly powerful in a zerg fight if you pick the right target. The Staff is probably our strongest zerg weapon and it’s strongest on condi Necros. And since condi specs are unlikely to be focused in a zerg fight if they position correctly, they will be able to toss out their damage in the manner which they prefer: more carefully and deliberately, building their damage. It’s true that you run into condition caps and AoE condi clears more easily in zergs, but it is profoundly unlikely that everyone on the enemy team will constantly be capped for every condition and having more condi-spec’ed characters makes it easier to overwhelm the enemy zerg’s condi removal.

Power Necros can still be useful in zergs but they have way less at-range AoE damage than Condi Necros. They can still use the staff deftly, but their damage will be somewhat stunted compared to their true heights. Conversely, I generally find my necro’s Power build letting her tear through enemy roamers in 1v1 and even some 1v2 situations (it’s very difficult for Necros of any stripe to fight more than 2 opponents at a time, and even fighting 2 is extremely dangerous if they’re any good), whereas my Condi build has a rougher time dealing with targets who can disengage well.

Blaine Tog.8304:

Condi Necros have a few major disadvantages in zergs. Epidemic is ungodly overhyped in a zerg fight. The Staff is probably our strongest zerg weapon and it’s strongest on power Necros. And since condi specs are unlikely to be focused in a zerg fight if they position correctly because theyre not a threat, they will be able to toss out their damage in the manner which they prefer: more carefully and deliberately, losing damage to massive condition clears. It’s false that you run into condition caps because of AoE condi clears negate all condi damage in zergs and resets any stacks you may have built up back to 0 before you can cast that 1sec long epidemic, and having more condi-spec’ed characters makes it easier for the enemy zerg to overwhelm your own zerg and steamroll you over.

Power Necros can still be useful in zergs but they have way more at-range AoE damage than Condi Necros as shown in Ormeega’s videos. They can still use the staff, but their damage will be somewhat overwhelmingly awesome.

Conversely, I generally find my necro’s Power build letting her tear through enemy roamers in 1v1 and even some 1v2 situations (it’s very difficult for Necros of any stripe to fight more than 2 opponents at a time, and even fighting 2 is extremely dangerous if they’re any good), whereas my Condi build has an even easier time dealing with multiple targets who can disengage well because I can just cripple, chill, fearlock, or tainted shackles and they are forced to bring multiple condition clears to get away.

Fixed it for you. Thank me later

Ormiga.6183:

I disagree, but rather than saying so directly (which would imply that we might simply have our own opinions about this) I will be snarky and passive-aggressive so as to give myself the presumption of correctness. Thank me later

Thanks!

Do you see what I did there? In all seriousness, it’s profoundly unfair to reply as you did. It places the argument’s cadence against me, making it difficult for me to argue back regardless of who’s correct. And see, I’m making my counter-point in a direct fashion, leaving you free to defend your point without having to make awkward conversational contortions.

Now, would you like to do the same so that I can make my case against your counter-points properly?

Liquid.9672:

This question is asked quite often, with varying opinions on the subject. If you dig back through this forum a bit you’ll probably find some detailed discussions.

My views on the matter and general rule of thumb …

Solo/Small group = Condition Damage
Large group/Zerg = Power

Having played both, that’s also my take on it. I always wish I was playing the other build when the situation changes.

I’m a big fan of my Cleric wellmancer build.

Blaine Tog.8304:

It comes down to personal preference. Which one has a playstyle you like more. My suggestion is to buy a set of Rare armor for each and give each a try for a while. If you decide you hate one set or the other, use a Master (or Black Lion) Salvage Kit on the armor you don’t want. You should average an Ecto about 90% of the time which can really help recoup your losses (if you bought the sets via buy orders, you can even MAKE a bit of money this way sometimes). Then you can start working on an exotic set for whichever build you end up liking.

And I’d actually disagree with the previous two posters about which is best where.

Condi Necros have a few major advantages in zergs. Epidemic is ungodly powerful in a zerg fight if you pick the right target. The Staff is probably our strongest zerg weapon and it’s strongest on condi Necros. And since condi specs are unlikely to be focused in a zerg fight if they position correctly, they will be able to toss out their damage in the manner which they prefer: more carefully and deliberately, building their damage. It’s true that you run into condition caps and AoE condi clears more easily in zergs, but it is profoundly unlikely that everyone on the enemy team will constantly be capped for every condition and having more condi-spec’ed characters makes it easier to overwhelm the enemy zerg’s condi removal.

Power Necros can still be useful in zergs but they have way less at-range AoE damage than Condi Necros. They can still use the staff deftly, but their damage will be somewhat stunted compared to their true heights. Conversely, I generally find my necro’s Power build letting her tear through enemy roamers in 1v1 and even some 1v2 situations (it’s very difficult for Necros of any stripe to fight more than 2 opponents at a time, and even fighting 2 is extremely dangerous if they’re any good), whereas my Condi build has a rougher time dealing with targets who can disengage well.

I’ll agree with one thing that is does come down to personally preference but in the end power builds are better in large scale organized fights. I say organized because you can get away with a lot when pug stomping but when a guild is well trained, they will be running cleanses often and water fields for healing making DoT’s less effective. I understand that it may be hard or impossible for zergs to cleanse all the conditions but if your plan is to overload with conditions to waste cleanses you are also wasting a lot of dps to do so. Also since Necros are quite common in zergs your giving them more use of staff #4 and making there heal stronger. (understandably unavoidable but the point still stands) Epidemic is subpar for a few reasons, the cast time makes it unreliable to transfer the correct conditions. The person can have lost/cleared the condition by the time the cast finishes thus wasting the skill. (regardless of how short the CD is, wasting it is still a drop in over all dps.) The skill has a higher failure rate then other more beneficial skills that should be used like well of corruption or darkness.

Only one thing you need to do on wvw – tag targets to get loot&exp. Nothing else is matter in zerg.

I know it may counter-productive in some situations, but I use both currently. I have celestial armor/divinity runes along with rabid trinkets for the toughness. I use focus crystals for the toughness to condi damage along with dragon buns for the crit % +200 power for 30 seconds on kill. my weapons are axe/focus for when i need the power/vulnerability and scepter/dagger for when I need that little extra condi damage. I have learned when to switch my weapons around for when the situation calls for it. Although this build isn’t suited to the min/maxer it seems to work well enough for me. I carry a set of ascended power trinkets for when I want to see the high numbers, but I never carry another set of armor anymore. Not so much a hybrid as a mutt build, but when utilized well it can be lots of fun.

It all depends on personal preference really, Both power and condition builds can be very effective in WvW at both small group roaming and zergs.

Condition Necromancers will have a higher range than power necros due to the weapons being used (Changes depending on user, But for the most part) and they might have higher toughness because of the armor that is mostly used by both builds (Rabid for condition, Berserker for power) (Again changes depending on the user and the build)

Due to the range, Condition Necros are less likely to die if they are positioned correctly as opposed to the shorter range of the Power Necros. With high condition damage an epidemic can be devastating if used on the correct target and you can even self apply the conditions very quickly using SoS, BiP, Staff, Scepter and some other skills. And with epidemics low cooldown, You can probably use it several times during a fight (Assuming its atleast a decent fight) With all the conditions with these skills you will not only be doing a ton of AoE damage, but you will also be doing a lot of weakening the enemy since you can apply several stacks of Vulnerability, Weakness, Chill and cripple to a lot of people very quickly. Also, Plague is arguably the best elite to use in WvW and its effects are greatly increased if you are a Condition Necromancer (Condition duration for the AoE blind and weakness/cripple spam, Condition duration and damage for the AoE bleed spam) Being able to apply conditions on to yourself may seem like a negative thing, And it some cases it can be. But if you are hurt, Apply conditions onto yourself and then use Consume Conditions to get healed by an extra 750+(More depending on heaing power) per condition consumed. It can be used to heal for a few thousand more than it normally would.

However, Power necromancers while having a shorter range will be able to do a lot more direct damage (This should be quite obvious). While they might not necessarily be able to do more overall damage, They will most likely be able to do more single target damage (Unless fighting someone with very high toughness). And, They will have much stronger wells (especially Well of Suffering) and that is where most of their AoE damage comes from. However it can be pretty easily avoided as you can just step out of the well, While it may be harder for people to see while zerging. They will probably still just move out of it if they are pushing or being pushed back (Unless you are holding a choke point) But as the people in the back go through, they will get hurt by the wells too. The damage from this will affect more people than Epidemic (If just cast once) would against zergs. But the damage wouldn’t be to several people, Nor will it affect all those people nearly as much as the 25 stacks of bleed + poison + burn + Weakness, Vulnerability, Cripple, and chill that last 20+ seconds that epidemic can per cast to those several people. Instead the damage would be spread out between everyone that gets hit by it.

Both are very effective builds so it really just matters on personal preference and play style. A hybrid combining the two is very effective as well.

Both power and conditions builds can be made for competative GvG small scale and large scale fights. One is not better then the other they just fill roles near opposite each other in larger scale fights if done right.

Go with what you enjoy.

Well, I decided to run a Powermancer build, and although the damage is very good, seems it is outclassed by warriors without the survivability – so anyone targets you, you go down :-(

Maybe condmancer would be best for me…

Budchgon.2108:

Well, I decided to run a Powermancer build, and although the damage is very good, seems it is outclassed by warriors without the survivability – so anyone targets you, you go down :-(

Maybe condmancer would be best for me…

For raw damage (DPS) output the necro is not the class you want to run. However you can make yourself fairly tough while still putting the pressure on the enemy with conditions. Although we don’t get any other evades/dodges other than the 2 dodges every class gets the trick is to continuously stick and move while wearing down you opponents; use death shroud whnever it is up for both defense and offense FTW. That being said a condi build generally has much more toughness and hence survivability.

I agree with Fizwitz.

Additionally, to those that basically claim that, due to the abundant aoe cleanses, conditions are a minor annoyance at best and have no place in organized zerg play: assuming this is true, why are Runes of the Soldier, Runes of Melandru and Bowl of Lemongrass Poultry Soup still such common choices then? There are plenty of other choices that could made, yet extra defense against conditions is deemed important? Interesting…

The following is my opinion. Conditions can be amazing against the right players, particularly pugs, in the right situations. The problem is if you go up against a group that can regularly cleanse conditions, it can be almost impossible to lay down any real damage. A powermancer, on the other hand, has a harder time laying down the epic amount of damage a conditionmancer can in the right situation, but can contribute to essentially any battle. On average, I would say it is a toss up. Personally, in the group I run with I find I contribute more as a conditionmancer. I also find I help more when defending and taking keeps and camps with a condition build.