(edited by The one to Rule.2593)
Power reaper in raids?
Not exactly a real-world situation; power Reaper is middle tier for power builds. Condition damage builds are bottom of the top tier, though I am open to criticism.
Where Necro shines is being able to suck up damage and still be viable in either role.
Necromancer should get more benefits for being what it is – last one downed, an emergency tank, and missing the spike heals…
It’s a very possible scenario in raids – the 100% alacrity uptime though. you can’t really get so I agree there. in content smaller than 10 man where you can’t get every buff it seems like condi would be better, I just found the video interesting.
You may want to check this out. Brazil makes a lot of good points. Based on this video power really doesn’t seem too terrible unless you’re going for bleeding edge clear times.
Not exactly a real-world situation; power Reaper is middle tier for power builds. Condition damage builds are bottom of the top tier, though I am open to criticism.
Where Necro shines is being able to suck up damage and still be viable in either role.
Necromancer should get more benefits for being what it is – last one downed, an emergency tank, and missing the spike heals…
OP: “Here’s a video evidence showing that Power Necro deals more damage than Condi Necro.”
First Reply: “Oh yeah, Condi Necro deals more damage than Power Necro. I have no evidence.”
I don’t get it. I really don’t. People keep saying that Condi Necro deals more damage than Power Necro, but all the evidences show otherwise. Why? Here’s a “real-world situation”:
EDIT: Not me, but here’s the Original Thread where that video was posted: https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/44o33x/zerker_necro_viable_30k_dps_sabetha_video/
Also, whenever such videos are posted, the top criticism is always: “Nay, that’s inaccurate, the real DPS is actually lower.” Is there a reason why the DPS meter is suddenly accurate for Condi Necros or other classes but not for Power Necro? Are we just so inclined to believe in the meta that we can’t change our beliefs even when the evidence proves otherwise?
(edited by Zarquon.9152)
Brazil pretty much answers this in his recent video in which he advertises a 30k dps power reaper build:
https://youtu.be/P-b5ogp9rdo?t=1421
TL;DW: The dps is similar on a 1.000.000 HP Golem. If the target has more health/toughness condi has more time to ramp up and get significantly higher dps than power. Queue attached image of 51k condi dps. edit: it came to my attention that it was NOT 51k but 44.787 dps.
The big advantage of this video is that he uses the newly implemented dps meter, which is probably favorable in comparison to third party programs. Even though I haven’t even set foot into a raid yet I can still infer that “damage uptime” will probably be higher on condi builds also, as they keep ticking while one dodges/retreats.
Shaak ~
Played build right now: “Cele” Base Necro with Axe WvW Roaming
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Played build right now: “Cele” Base Necro with Axe WvW Roaming
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
(edited by CastIron.7364)
Not exactly a real-world situation; power Reaper is middle tier for power builds. Condition damage builds are bottom of the top tier, though I am open to criticism.
Where Necro shines is being able to suck up damage and still be viable in either role.
Necromancer should get more benefits for being what it is – last one downed, an emergency tank, and missing the spike heals…
OP: “Here’s a video evidence showing that Power Necro deals more damage than Condi Necro.”
First Reply: “Oh yeah, Condi Necro deals more damage than Power Necro. I have no evidence.”
2 reasons. Epidemic, which can boost DPS to the sky if there are adds. And rats, aka jagged horrors. The longer the fight, the more of them condi necro will produce, and they stack some insane amounts of bleed.
Both are situational, and second requires healer to take care of your rats, so on paper, power probably can be stronger.
Welcome to Rivendell, mister Anderson
TL;DW: The dps is similar on a 1.000.000 HP Golem. If the target has more health/toughness condi has more time to ramp up and get significantly higher dps than power. Queue attached image of 51k condi dps.
Here’s a build registering 27k DPS. It uses the newly implemented DPS meter, if I am not mistaken.
I can’t seem to find this attached image of 51k Condi DPS – Brazil’s own seems to plateau at 25k, though my understanding is that can increase further?
If I may, though: My main assertion really is that Power Necros are as viable if not more viable than Condi Necros. Is that really disproved here? Because a very real problem at the moment is that raid groups are demanding meta-builds, and many a Power Necro find themselves disenfranchised from raiding because their build ’isn’t in the meta’, even though I am still finding objective and meaningful reasons why. The most common reason offered is that Power Necros do not offer competitive DPS in comparison with Condi Necros, but that’s patently disproved – Power Necros can deal equal to or higher DPS, though Condi Necros may deal more DPS in certain specific situations (perhaps as Wintermute pointed out).
I would also point to this thread here:
https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/necromancer/Make-power-necro-viable/first#post6110987
Where the OP asserted – without evidence beyond his own credentials – that Power Necros are not viable.
lol there’s no way necro is 50k dps with anything. that’s just not gonna happen nor is it realistic. I think it’s cool that power necros aren’t as bad as I once thought though, 25-30k is great but I feel like at that point if all you bring is damage why not just go ele
(edited by The one to Rule.2593)
I’m sorry. I mistakenly said that it was 51k condi dps, when in reality the screenshot (in the video) showed 44.787. I blame my lack of coffee in the morning.
The aforementioned screenshot can be found at this timestamp:
https://youtu.be/P-b5ogp9rdo?t=1508
Of course we can debate the usefulness of this kind of damage because you would need a dedicated healer for the jagged horrors.
Plus as I mentioned before I am not part of the PvE/raid community so my input into these matters is limited to outside sources.
but I feel like at that point if all you bring is damage why not just go ele
The build in the video uses the vampiric traitline, so it has a small kind of support to it to be fair.
Shaak ~
Played build right now: “Cele” Base Necro with Axe WvW Roaming
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
Played build right now: “Cele” Base Necro with Axe WvW Roaming
“Revenant is actual proof that devs read the necromancer forum” – Pelopidas.2140
I’m very skeptical of being able to do over 30k dps on anything other than sabetha or trio with a condi reaper. I wouldn’t trust that screenshot.
Reaper is my main class for raiding, full ascended vipers including trinkets, and there’s no way I would come close to 50k.
Seriously… I’m tired to say that the necromancer issue in PvE group content is it’s terrible support. All profession can be a brainless DPS, all profession have crowd control. Only the necromancer have meaningless and useless support that need encounter especialy designed to make it work.
- Vampiric skills/aura/dark field? Give me crit immun bosses and it would become great.
- Boon corruption? give me bosses that work like player, generating and relying on boons to do damage or survive.
- Debuff? (First I’d like to say that there is no way we can call this support) Give me bosses that are really affected by effect like poisoned reduced heal/weakness reduced damage/slow/chill longer cool down… etc. Breakbar is affected by some of them but not in the way they are supposed to work.
Giving encounter where boon removal is almost mandatory make the necromancer almost mandatory as well. I’d like to say that this is a good thing but it’s not. A profession should never be mandatory. Necromancer just lack support, it’s not like there ain’t tons of traits that could be bend easily to provide this. (already 4 years that I say it, I’m kinda tired)
No core profession should be balanced around an optional elite specialization.
Seriously… I’m tired to say that the necromancer issue in PvE group content is it’s terrible support. All profession can be a brainless DPS, all profession have crowd control. Only the necromancer have meaningless and useless support that need encounter especialy designed to make it work.
- Vampiric skills/aura/dark field? Give me crit immun bosses and it would become great.
- Boon corruption? give me bosses that work like player, generating and relying on boons to do damage or survive.
- Debuff? (First I’d like to say that there is no way we can call this support) Give me bosses that are really affected by effect like poisoned reduced heal/weakness reduced damage/slow/chill longer cool down… etc. Breakbar is affected by some of them but not in the way they are supposed to work.
Giving encounter where boon removal is almost mandatory make the necromancer almost mandatory as well. I’d like to say that this is a good thing but it’s not. A profession should never be mandatory. Necromancer just lack support, it’s not like there ain’t tons of traits that could be bend easily to provide this. (already 4 years that I say it, I’m kinda tired)
yes I know this, which if you had read what I wrote, I have basically said the same thing already. I said " but if all you bring is power dps, then just bring an ele"
I also don’t think having professions be mandatory in certain area’s of the game is a bad thing either. There is already a boss where boonstrip is a mechanic